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I play alot of 2v2's and 3v3's and around 25% of the time we meet TT, TZ, TTT, TTZ etc.. with shared control for easy micro. Is it just me or is this rather unsportsmanlike?
My two team-mates prefer to play toss, and I always play random. Zealots can easily be microed with roaches,marines and mauraders, and we simply cant manage to get enough stalkers in time to counter this the normal way, so we usually go a normal proxy with 10 pylon, 10 gate 10 gate (or similar with terran) and harass with super early zealots. This usually wins the game, but it is not as fun as playing the way you wanted with teching and expanding etc..
If we play TZ,TT or ZZ we NEVER play with shared unit micro, unless our opponents do it. I mean, it is a team game and attacking together microing your own units trying to time it with your team-mate is half the challenge and fun 
This is not to be a complaining thred, just wanted to see what thoughts you guys have. Any other way to counter this as protoss without doing proxy or forcefield'ing ramp while teching up/spamming stalkers?
And do you consider this as being unsportsmanlike?
I've added a little poll just for fun.
Poll: Is shared unit control unsportsmanlike?No! (91) 66% No, I do it all the time. (36) 26% I don't care, it is easy to counter anyway. (6) 4% Yes. (4) 3% 137 total votes Your vote: Is shared unit control unsportsmanlike? (Vote): No!
(Vote): No, I do it all the time.
(Vote): Yes.
(Vote): I don't care, it is easy to counter anyway.
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Out of interest is there any way to tell they using shared control or just judging by the way they attack/move.
If your problem is that you always lose to early all-In first replay would help but otherwise I'll just give general advise.
1. Scout
2. Die slowly.
You have to scout the attack coming, got to spot the 2 gate and the 2 rax before OC and from there you can react.
Terran get a wall, get a bunker and be ready to pull lots of SCV to repair.
Zerg 1-2 spines in a mineral line + 1 queen + attacking with drones can kill a surprising amount of unit.
Toss is probably hardest to hold either chrono out a sentry or if think you have time just get warp ASAP.
I don't see any problem with shared control persoanlly, only time find it good is if someone has been killed off and you let them control some harassing units(banhsee muts ect)
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I think shared unit control is great! Im a low level player and play with other low level mates. Im forever pinging the map to tell them about workers which are just stood there spinning around (they play terran) instead of doing something useful, or units that they're left behind when attacking (after taking out opponents natural they may leave some units there while and only attack with part of their army.
Also if you play with people you know, one of you can work on your Macro and one of you can work on your Micro
Edit: WOW!! Check out the party hat!! ^^
Edit2: Out of interest is there any way to tell they using shared control or just judging by the way they attack/move.
You can definatly tell by the way they move, if all units change direction at the time time etc. Also i think you can tell by the colour ring around each unit, although that may only be in replys :/ you can definatly tell with allyies who is controlling other people units
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If you are going to complain about anything it should be shared resources. Shared resources can be severely abused. For instance you can use zergs as "farmers" and Terrans for super strong bio and basically rofl stomp people since by dividing labor you get better results.
Shared control is awesome, but supply depos need to be always shared for doors because idiot teammates dont open it and trap you... sigh...
Also Zerg creep shouldnt block ally buildings somehow, thats another huge problem. Colored creep that only allies can build on would be nice.
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On March 01 2011 19:38 Frenzy175 wrote:
Out of interest is there any way to tell they using shared control or just judging by the way they attack/move.
You can by watching the replay, the color of the person controlling the units will appear around the units they select.
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I find the best way to share unit control is along the lines of "handle my main army, I'm gonna be harassing with this dropship/muta clump/whatever" and not "let's lump everything into an even bigger ball and have only 1 person do battles."
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Shared control has been standard on hgher levels of team play since wc3... My only complaint is some sc players really have horrible micro and don't properly use groups, but tend to select everything and fling it around. If you're controlling more than one army you definitely need multiple groups.. Such as 1 ) marine marauder stalker sentry 2) lings 3) blings 4) tanks
Even in team games with large armies it typically only takes one skilled person to micro everything. That allows other teammates to harass with hellion, muta, drops, banshee better, or spend that extra few seconds macroing that make a huge difference later in the game.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
It's not unsportsmanlike. It's a part of the game.
I was playing 2s with TT team where I went reactor Hellions into medivac and my partner went 3 rax. Gave him control and let him use my medivacs.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
how do u share control in 2v2? i know how to share money but units? how?
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Personally, if you and your teamates are willing to sacrifice unit control for one watching macro, that I'd suggest going TTP as your unit combo. If both terrans wall and SCV/Mule excessively hard, the Protoss can mass an unreal amount of warpgates and just stomp through the opponents.
Jinro/TLO have used this in 2v2 effectively before.
Sadly, the only link/replay of this game I could find was an HD/Husky cast.
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I had to read the title of the thread actually twice to get the point. At first I thought you want to talk about not giving shared control being bad, and I wanted to agree Nevertheless, it's quite the opposite!
I am a very poor player, gold in 1v1. My wife is bronze. From time to time, we beat a pair of 1v1 diamonds in 2v2 - and I atribute most of the wins to shared control alone. Usually, the loosers are a random team. I just don't beat diamonds 1v1, almost never.
Well, honestly, the other big part is that we are 1 meter from each other. Its hellishly slow to actually type for help and its even slow to ask screaming. Its just much more efficient to box select everything that's around and get it. And that's what decides the battles in (low-level) team games: avoiding 1on2 encounters at all costs.
I alomst stopped playing 1v1s when my wife bought her copy of SC2. Shared control is so great!
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On March 02 2011 00:12 2GRe-Play- wrote:
how do u share control in 2v2? i know how to share money but units? how?
Press the button next to the "share mineral button" all the way up to the right. There you have a "tick off box" granting one or more player on your team to be able to control your units. I dont think you can build with them unless they quit though.
Also this button is quite nice if you forgot what race your opponents are playing (if you manage to forget from the loading screen until you've scouted them )
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jesus christ, no it's not BM. as protoss, it's probably best for you to share control and let one dude handle your ball + sentries, and the other two should harass or something.
if anything your proxy gateways are more "unsportmanlike" than shared control. on most maps you can wall off right as the inevitable 6 pools come.
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I play team games with IRL friends and we make use of unit control fairly often.
It's especially useful if one player gets hit hard with an early rush and is effectively taken out the game. By giving control they can concentrate completely on harass or pressure micro, while the remaining allies macro up undisturbed.
As mentioned it also helps a lot if one teammate is noticeably weaker than the others- you can just grab their units and take them along with your attack so they dont have to worry about the slaughter occurring across the map
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how do you know if your opponents are?
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I don't know, personally me and my friends only share control when we're on shared bases and need to lower our allies wall to get through etc. Taking macro/micro out of the game for a player definitely takes a pretty big aspect out of the game ... :/
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
i could never go back to playing team games without shared control. the efficiency is just soooooooooooooooo much higher. i'd even say that it's 100% a prerequisite if you want to be a good team.
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On March 02 2011 01:49 intrigue wrote:
i could never go back to playing team games without shared control. the efficiency is just soooooooooooooooo much higher. i'd even say that it's 100% a prerequisite if you want to be a good team.
Agreed, have recently been delegating the player with the best micro to attack in team games and win rate has been ALOT better. Shared control is a must for team games imo.
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I think that neglecting someting that was introduced specially to HELP in team games and improve your inteam understanding is stupid.Even if you micro in big battles and major engagements shared cntrol helps greatly defending multiple expo harassment or rescuing forgotten flocks of units. I dont see how my buddy can be annoyed by the fact that his 30 workers in hellion raided expo were rescued by someone else instead of dying in blaze of glory.
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Calling shared control unsportsman-like is the same as calling teching to BCs unsportsman-like. Not everyone does it, some people hate it when their opponents do it, but it's a built-in game mechanic and there's nothing wrong with it.
For the people asking how you can tell whether your opponents are sharing control, here's a solution: always assume they are, and you will never be disappointed.
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On March 02 2011 01:49 intrigue wrote:
i could never go back to playing team games without shared control. the efficiency is just soooooooooooooooo much higher. i'd even say that it's 100% a prerequisite if you want to be a good team.
I have some pretty high teams and we never share control  . Most teams we play against don't look like they're sharing control either, although I don't usually watch replays after the fact to verify.
Share control often annoys me since when I'm drag selecting units I have to be careful not to drag select my ally's units if we're going different types of units (or unselect them, but that's annoying).
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Its probably alot of personal preference and changes on your level of play.
My main 2v2 team rank 5 diamond and we never use it and would find it quite annoying, we have ventrillo to help co-ordinate attacks and are confident that each other can look after their own units.
Also is 9/10 battles the only thing they would bother spending extra time microing is spell casters and tank/collsi which I would never want my team mate doing anyway.
On the other hand playing 3/4's with some other mates who are more the Gold level they love the idea of it, But their APM is alot more the 40-80 so they can get a bit overwhelmed.
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My opinion is that shared control is in many cases necessary, as in the example of a terran walloff. You have to have control to avoid telling them to raise/lower every time. Whenever I play with my brother, (I play zerg he plays protoss and we usually both random) it depends, with what I call A-move armies, marine marauder, roach hydra, protoss death balls, we share control but we each maintain control of our individual spell-casters such as HTs, infestors ghosts etc.
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No, im in masters league but i play with my little cousin all the time. If i happen to die to a dual 6 pool or something thats just impossible to defend against i just let myself die send my resources to my cousin tell him what to build and micro the army.
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Share control has that crappy "when you box, you box your units and your allies units" mechanic in it.
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On March 01 2011 19:42 blitzkrieger wrote:
If you are going to complain about anything it should be shared resources. Shared resources can be severely abused. For instance you can use zergs as "farmers" and Terrans for super strong bio and basically rofl stomp people since by dividing labor you get better results.
Shared control is awesome, but supply depos need to be always shared for doors because idiot teammates dont open it and trap you... sigh...
Also Zerg creep shouldnt block ally buildings somehow, thats another huge problem. Colored creep that only allies can build on would be nice.
This is how I feel. Shared resources can really end up impacting timing and cause other wonky balance issues. I don't really think it needs to be removed, but it should probably be more limited than it is now.
As for shared unit control I don't see it as an issue at all. It is just a part of team play. I use it sometimes and other times I don't, just depends.
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Even if sharing control gave me a better chance of winning, I'd avoid doing it. I'd rather keep having to macro and micro, than just focus on one.
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its always terran that does this sharing for their wall. If a terran on my team shares control I ask them exactly once to unshare with me. If they don't unshare it I'll just stim their bio down to 5 hp every chance I get. Having someone share control just so you can use their supply depots is a pet-peeve. I dont want to have a bunch of their units in my control groups somehow.
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I hate USING shared unit control. If my teammate is incapable of macroing while microing his shit then there is no hope for us to win anyway. Let me control all my own stuff on my own, plzthx.
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On March 02 2011 16:36 CCalms wrote:
I hate USING shared unit control. If my teammate is incapable of macroing while microing his shit then there is no hope for us to win anyway. Let me control all my own stuff on my own, plzthx.
but everyone can macro BETTER when not worrying about micro and vice versa...
still yeah, it's sad when someone on the team offers to be a farmer lol. control all my stuff! i'll...make drones and overlords...
..
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But as playing Zerg in 3v3 or 4v4, how do you guys cope with 3-4 Terrans massing marines and sharing control, without harassing early and then going banelings?
And same with protoss, any other way to survive until you get enough stalkers/colossus without doing proxy rush or tamp forcefiled? Some ramps are just way to big.. =/
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Shared control is a big buff in team games imho. However I hate it when someone drag-selects the big main army and a-move everything, thats probably why I dont give ctrl in random team games
Shared ctrl lets one player position and manage the army when out of direct combat (while the other player harass and/or macro). Quite important and best performed by one player (dont you just hate it when you accidentally split up at the wrong moment?).
However, in engagements 2 ppl microing beats 1...
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On March 02 2011 09:09 Jayrod wrote:
its always terran that does this sharing for their wall. If a terran on my team shares control I ask them exactly once to unshare with me. If they don't unshare it I'll just stim their bio down to 5 hp every chance I get. Having someone share control just so you can use their supply depots is a pet-peeve. I dont want to have a bunch of their units in my control groups somehow.
then when they take off shared control and you need them to lower a supply depot wall you probably just destroy it right? you sound like the kind of guy i want on my team
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EPT
