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United States17 Posts
I just played a match where I outplayed my opponent in almost every way possible, but he still almost won. It was a lot closer than he should have been after sustaining as much damage as he did. Here's a rundown of what happened with a replay attached, feedback as to how I could have done better would be much appreciated.
I start out 14 pool 16 gas 21 hatch. I went muta/ling/baneling for the whole game, until the very end where I switched to roaches. I Take a third base about the 7 minute mark because I feel like he's taking the back rock expansion (delta quadrant). His first push comes right about the time my third expansion really starts to kick in, and at that point we have an even supply army where I have about 15 mutas, and a lot of lings/banelings. As he is moving his slow mech army consisting of thors, blue flame hellions, marines and marauders across the map, I go to his back rock expansion with my mutas and kill all of his scv's. I literally take him down from like 55 scv's to 23, and then rejoin the fight by the time his mech army gets to my front door. My first wave of units gets killed, but my second wave of lings cleans up his army. All in all it was an even army trade, but I set him back about 35 harvesters with my mutas and lost none. I take the gold right away, and soon after I take a 5th. Takes his third about the time I take my 5th. As soon as I max out and get 2/2 upgrades, I baneling bust his third expansion and completely clean it up, killing about 20 more harvesters, and losing about equal army units. I back out with the rest of my army and I'm about 70 food up.
Basically he stays alive for another 15 minutes after that, almost winning with a ton of thors and hellions, but FINALLY after a long ass time the economic damage I did earlier in the game starts to show, and I finish him off with 2 more baneling busts taking out the gold and another expo.
Even though I won the game, I feel like I should have had a lot easier time considering how much economic damage I did to him, yet there were a few times where he was pretty close to winning the game despite entering the battle 70 food behind. Please tell me where I could have done better to make sure that when I face more competent players, I don't lose to this mech style of play. Thanks!
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=184966
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United States17 Posts
Any input? Should I have gone for roaches as soon as I saw blue flame hellions?
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There were several issues that occurred throughout this game that made it closer than it should have been.
First of all, you should focus on trying to drone up a bit harder throughout the game. Especially in the beginning, where you make unnecessary lings and banelings that could have been potentially drones. Also, your saturation at your second and third bases was low for quite some time.
Secondly, and perhaps most important as to why you felt it was a close match, was your control during the push. All of the banelings didn't hit as well as they should have and crashed into marauders, rendering them less than efficient. Your mutas clumped up and got punished dearly due to the large amount of thors and the couple of marines left over. The zerglings getting fried before you moved your army didn't help much either.
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United States17 Posts
On January 30 2011 11:28 Kwanzilla wrote:
They were several issues.
First of all, you should focus on trying to drone up a bit harder throughout the game. Especially in the beginning, where you make unnecessary lings and banelings that could have been potentially drones. Also, your saturation at your second and third bases was low for quite some time.
I decided to make some extra units because I didn't know if he was going to go for a 2 base timing push, or go for a third. How can I know which one players are going to go for in the future?
Secondly, and perhaps most important as to why you felt it was a close match, was your control during the push. All of the banelings didn't hit as well as they should have and crashed into marauders, rendering them less than efficient. Your mutas clumped up and got punished dearly due to the large amount of thors and the couple of marines left over. The zerglings getting fried before you moved your army didn't help much either.
How would you I control it differently to make sure each unit is as useful as possible? Was my army composition capable of dealing with this correctly, or should I have used roaches?
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I find I have a similar problem in my games. I feel it can be pretty difficult for Z to close out game against T sometimes...
Roaches wouldn't have worked because he just transitioned into Maruaders...
I really feel the only way to close out long games like where T just sits on his 3rd, is to tech to broodlords. I realize that's a lot harder than it sounds, but there's nothing that can beat MMs, Thors, and Tanks outside of Broodlords. Try throwing down a infestation pit a bit earlier maybe, it looked like you had enough time to get one.
Just my opinion from 2500 diamond... for what it's worth.
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On January 30 2011 11:28 Kwanzilla wrote:
There were several issues that occurred throughout this game that made it closer than it should have been.
First of all, you should focus on trying to drone up a bit harder throughout the game. Especially in the beginning, where you make unnecessary lings and banelings that could have been potentially drones. Also, your saturation at your second and third bases was low for quite some time.
Secondly, and perhaps most important as to why you felt it was a close match, was your control during the push. All of the banelings didn't hit as well as they should have and crashed into marauders, rendering them less than efficient. Your mutas clumped up and got punished dearly due to the large amount of thors and the couple of marines left over. The zerglings getting fried before you moved your army didn't help much either.
^
Stuck with the same for a bit too long, could of had hive faster and when you got it you didn't make much use of it. He didn't really have anyway to respond to broodlords. During the first push you didn't attack with your mutas when you ling/bane went in. Probably should of gotten more bases up as well esp when you killed his first big push.
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On January 30 2011 11:33 Brandon1461 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2011 11:28 Kwanzilla wrote:
They were several issues.
First of all, you should focus on trying to drone up a bit harder throughout the game. Especially in the beginning, where you make unnecessary lings and banelings that could have been potentially drones. Also, your saturation at your second and third bases was low for quite some time.
I decided to make some extra units because I didn't know if he was going to go for a 2 base timing push, or go for a third. How can I know which one players are going to go for in the future? Show nested quote +
Secondly, and perhaps most important as to why you felt it was a close match, was your control during the push. All of the banelings didn't hit as well as they should have and crashed into marauders, rendering them less than efficient. Your mutas clumped up and got punished dearly due to the large amount of thors and the couple of marines left over. The zerglings getting fried before you moved your army didn't help much either.
How would you I control it differently to make sure each unit is as useful as possible? Was my army composition capable of dealing with this correctly, or should I have used roaches?
For the push, I feel that if you sent your banelings in shortly after sending in your lings that it would've turned out much better. However, it is important to make sure that the banelings hit what they are supposed to. (marines followed by hellions) To prepare for a two base timing push, you should be constantly scouting to see what he is making. When he starts making a sizable force, that is when you should start making an army of your own. In this particular game, you started making zerglings and banelings which weren't use at all, and frankly wouldn't have been a good counter to his particular army at the time.
It is important to make the most out of all of your units, especially as zerg. Make sure all your units are ready for an attack, as crushing the attack is much more effective than doing some economic damage while risking losing a base.
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United States17 Posts
I see, I appreciate all of this input. I recently switched from protoss to zerg and found that I actually started winning more and against tougher opponents despite having almost no 1v1 experience with zerg, so learning the metagame is the hardest part for me right now. I'm having a lot of success with muta ling, but I don't know exactly when I shouldn't go muta/ling, and when I should transition out of it.
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Muta/ling is pretty standard for most ZvTs. Unless they do some crazy all in/timing push, you will typically go muta/ling. Again, the key to this is scouting. If you want to see some good examples of these, I would suggest watching Mr. Bitter's videos of his lessons with the pros. The coaches will pretty explain every aspect of the strategy. Also, Steven Bonnell II is a good streamer who uses this strategy regularly in ZvT.
As for transitioning out of it, you have to learn when a good time is to switch to broodlords. This is something you can learn from experience.
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If you really do have such a large eco lead you can literally max out on pure ling and a shitload of blings. Unless the T has 8+ tanks his whole Thor deathball WILL die. Then you just remax and kill him.
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try ultra bling. make sure the ultras are slightly in front of the mass of blings and anything they have (unless their army is much bigger than yours) will just evaporate.
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United States17 Posts
On January 30 2011 12:45 pbecot01 wrote:
try ultra bling. make sure the ultras are slightly in front of the mass of blings and anything they have (unless their army is much bigger than yours) will just evaporate.
Oh I didn't even think about ultras, I suppose those would have worked very well against an army with like 6 thors.
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EPT
