EPTOn SEA which is cheesy as Korea, I routinely scout on or before 11. I take an eco-hit, but I win SO MANY games with fast scouted cheese, easily worth it.
[D] "Master on cheese only" tested by geiko - Page 9
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On SEA which is cheesy as Korea, I routinely scout on or before 11. I take an eco-hit, but I win SO MANY games with fast scouted cheese, easily worth it. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Adrenalin
46 Posts
On January 25 2011 23:01 Geiko wrote: Already answered to this. Cheese = a strategy that if scouted will produce no tangible results and put you behind. If my opponent has scouted DTs, i'm pretty sure that rushing in his base with 7-8 DTs is going to fail miserably. If my opponent scouts my hidden 3 gates (making 5 total), and i try to push anyway, i'll have a fun time watching my gateway units die to 5 spine crawlers. Same thing for 4 gate blink stalkers. Most smart people would not procede to massing DTs, or blink stalkers, or army out of 5 gate once scouted and try to transition into something else. That doesn't mean the initial plan was not cheesy. I can place a proxy pylon in my opponent's base and hope he won't see it and too bad if he does. The ability to transition doesn't take away the cheesiness. Release your cheese account name #EU and a pack of replays please. :o You can find them in the "Unsaved" folder. Thanks. | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
I am not a great player. I am in diamond but I dont have a lot of games played. I watch a lot of streams and GSL. I 4-gate every game I can. I dont see a reason to stop until it doesnt win anymore. A win is a win especially on ladder. | ||
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-miDnight-
Taiwan455 Posts
In the begainning of BW, there are a lot of cheese too. But people will eventually figure the game and became less effective. untile then, we just have to suffer from all the bad game. | ||
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Juffalo
United States155 Posts
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Krayze
United States213 Posts
You can win with just cheese and this is a game. If you have fun cheesing, do it. But you just won't get as much respect as a "solid" macro player would. | ||
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DestroManiak
257 Posts
On January 26 2011 05:32 Krayze wrote: Can someone compete at high level with only cheese? Yes, just look at BitByBitPrime, he cheeses most or all of his games pulling scv's and winning quite a bit. He got to the semi's or finals of the gsl, don't remember. Is he a respected player with a ton of fans trying to learn to play like him? NO! You can win with just cheese and this is a game. If you have fun cheesing, do it. But you just won't get as much respect as a "solid" macro player would. My dreams are shattered, I was hoping that Id be a fan favorite player. Calm down, we are just a bunch of dudes who want to play starcraft. I am not actually trying to become a starcraft progamer who is respected by the starcraft community and has thousands of fans. | ||
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Evoshadow
United States88 Posts
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Evoshadow
United States88 Posts
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Eliezar
United States481 Posts
We'll never agree, but there are 1) Cheeses (offensive cannons, 6 pool, etc) 2) 1 Base all ins (scv + marines, Korean 4 gate, etc) 3) Early Timing Rushes (5 roach rush, 4 gate, stim push) 4) Early Tech Rushes (banshee rush, dt rush, etc) 5) Early macro builds (1 rax expo, 15 hatch, gateway/forge expo) We can argue a bit about what goes where, but these are definitely different concepts. For me "Cheese" is any opening strategy that is an all in or close to an all in that would turbo lose if the opponent was using a map hack. Obviously offensive cannons, 6 pool (obviously would lose to say 9 pool or 9 pylon 10 forge or whatever terran does against it) And then hybrids of all of those. I reject the Tastosis "2 base all in" when they are often are talking about someone who either is 2 base maxing out OR doing an involved 2 base timing push. | ||
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pwnsftw
United States42 Posts
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On January 26 2011 12:37 LAN-f34r wrote: BitbyBit doesn't cheese. He 1-base all-ins.Why did you need to prove this? BitbyBit.Prime got into the GSL... | ||
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Lochat
United States270 Posts
On January 30 2011 08:58 DaemonX wrote: BitbyBit doesn't cheese. He 1-base all-ins. That's sorta like saying, "He doesn't cheese, he Goudas" | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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whojohnisgalt
93 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
As you get up to masters, players get far better at scouting/knowing how to "read" a build order. For example, while you can get up to masters on 4 gates(unfortunately), I doubt someone could dt rush every game and get to top masters. ' Of course, really its the top masters, probably top 2%, that cheese, that pure cheese alone can't work. So by your "cheeses": -Dts vs Terran : -7pylon 8gate proxy-Okay, its cheese, but are you sure terrans are losing to this? I doubt you would win many games just on this higher up. -Dts vs Protoss -cannon rush -Proxy void rays -proxy 2 gate Yeah PvP is cheese fest, in fact playing standard is far harder. While technically if you play a matchup that's full of cheese, you are getting to masters on "cheese" alone, this doesn't raelly count. I will count the last two, but again, I doubt the majority of your wins are from that. | ||
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locopuyo
United States145 Posts
On January 30 2011 09:19 Pandain wrote: If you're talking about pure cheese, it will be very hard to get to masters on pure cheese alone. I'm assuming your talking about cheese and not all in/semi all in's. As you get up to masters, players get far better at scouting/knowing how to "read" a build order. For example, while you can get up to masters on 4 gates(unfortunately), I doubt someone could dt rush every game and get to top masters. ' Of course, really its the top masters, probably top 2%, that cheese, that pure cheese alone can't work. I saw someone in masters who only does one base baneling busts. Every single game, every map, every matchup, the exact same build. His macro and micro are terrible. I played him in a 2v2 and absolutely destroyed him, so I had a replay to watch exactly how he plays. He didn't even use hotkeys and his apm was slow. I think the only reason he is in masters is because he plays a new game every 5 minutes. | ||
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