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[Q] Vikings ground mode?

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Karl Maka
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada55 Posts
December 21 2010 23:38 GMT
#1
my question is what is the usefelness of vikings on ground mode as i se how useful they are in the air but what of the ground and when ever some one gets vikings they have the ground army to back it up. they are not that strong on the ground ive never seen vikings called to the ground in high level play they are not that strong on fround so i ask you all what is the point of having a ground mode and if there is a use please explain what it is good for
AY YA NE GE SI DOI BAO
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-21 23:40:56
December 21 2010 23:40 GMT
#2
well you can harass with it on undefended expos, imho it is a pretty interesting ability.
their not that weak if you got a decent number anyway.
majestouch
Profile Joined December 2010
United States395 Posts
December 21 2010 23:40 GMT
#3
in tvt you can land vikings on siege tanks and they will do a little damage and the enemy siege tanks will do firendly fire to their own tanks, also, you can do harrass around the map etc
Carras
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina860 Posts
December 21 2010 23:40 GMT
#4
good for harrassing, and does good damage against ligth units to.. zealots or lings..
GaryBrackett
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria106 Posts
December 21 2010 23:42 GMT
#5
vikings are really good at dethin stuff like DT's/HT's when in Ground Mode, also with upgrades they rly strong P

+ Show Spoiler +
Liquid_Brackett
ckcornflake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States53 Posts
December 21 2010 23:43 GMT
#6
On December 22 2010 08:40 majestouch wrote:
in tvt you can land vikings on siege tanks and they will do a little damage and the enemy siege tanks will do firendly fire to their own tanks, also, you can do harrass around the map etc


Definitely. If your opponent is holding a position far from his production structures you can land about 10 vikings kill a startport or maybe a few reactors and really hinder his air unit production. You can usually lift off and fly away before he can do any damage to the vikings.
endline
Profile Joined November 2010
100 Posts
December 21 2010 23:49 GMT
#7
ive landed a viking while retreating/repositioning my rines from incoming banelings. also harassment (they demolish mineral lines n decent numbers) and scouting with vikings is very viable. if you're getting vikings out, it is an additional benefit. - you can also deny/stall scouting with vikings.
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
December 21 2010 23:55 GMT
#8
Vikings are used all the time on the ground in high level play, particularly in TvT. They are only used, however, in a large push that will be game determining and only after enemy air is dead. Alternativly they are used to kill tanks when those tanks have lost most marauder/marine support and enemy vikings are gone.
Zombo Joe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada850 Posts
December 21 2010 23:57 GMT
#9
Vikings only do 12 damage in ground mode which makes them comparable to marauders vs non armored.

Vikings have the same hp and are armored but have 0 armor.
I am Terranfying.
ShootingStar
Profile Joined December 2010
17 Posts
December 22 2010 00:01 GMT
#10
Top players do land them a lot in TvT, primarily to land on an unprotected siege line.
OriginalBeast
Profile Joined September 2010
United States709 Posts
December 22 2010 00:01 GMT
#11
its basically used for harass... but did you know that you can put landed vikings in a medivac drop them and immediately fly the medivac away, after the vikings you damage they can transform back into flight mode and leave on their own, thats how you get creative with a landed viking maximizing its usefulness.
More gg, more skill.
whoopadeedoo
Profile Joined June 2010
United States427 Posts
December 22 2010 00:13 GMT
#12
I actually think that a mech army consisting of hellions, vikings, and tanks would be viable TvP. Vikings can kite (and escape) zealots all day long, and they actually go toe-to-toe against stalkers for cost.
k43r
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland112 Posts
December 22 2010 00:25 GMT
#13
I do viking drops. You need to land vikings, put them in medivacs and dorp them on opponent base. ;D joke

I don't see use of thsi skill. Vikings are very slow, so it's hard to use them as harass.
Lubisz to,suko!
ledarsi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States475 Posts
December 22 2010 00:41 GMT
#14
Vikings are, in general, best against targets that cannot shoot back. Mainly workers. However this includes units like sieged tank if you land nearby, as well as BC's and carriers in the air. Except against other vikings but that is obviously an even fight. Drop on mineral lines to harass workers, drop on the high ground to get some free shots. Vikings are incredibly weak for cost, with only 125 hp, not to mention they are armored but haven't actually got any armor. They can absorb banelings acceptably due to their armored type, but marauders are better, and much cheaper and easier to get.

As a ground unit, marines and marauders are infinitely better, and they can be flown about with dropships. Vikings are not that much more mobile, and they are considerably weaker and more expensive. Use for air to air only except in emergencies. Really, Blizzard dresses the viking up as being versatile but it's really one of the most specialist units in the game.
"First decide who you would be, then do what you must do."
Karl Maka
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada55 Posts
December 22 2010 01:04 GMT
#15
kool now i see

vikings are good for harass and tank killing


THNX
AY YA NE GE SI DOI BAO
QQmonster
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada240 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 06:34:12
December 22 2010 06:31 GMT
#16
If you're going for a Terran build that includes a lot of vikings, if you win a battle and make his army smaller the left over vikings can land and finish the enemy off. It's always so rewarding when you finish your enemy off with vikings, because while they're weaker units it means you had gained all the advantages up to that point in the game.

Especially if you force the zerg to make a crapload of corruptors, you can just land the vikings and then concentrate on a ground attack.

Other than that they're good for

1) helping in a fight after all the enemies air units are dead,
2) good for harrassing
EX-top 10 guildwars player yeye XD
CoSyN
Profile Joined December 2010
United States122 Posts
December 22 2010 06:38 GMT
#17
On small maps such as Scrap Station where an air army is ideal, I like to wall-off my ramp and tech straight to vikings (with the occasional production of some marines or tanks). After I get my first two, I build reactors on my two starports and then continuously pump them out. Once I have a decent amount, I fly them to my opponent's base and harass his eco. Then I push out with my ground army and do a two-pronged attack. This can work especially well against Zerg as Vikings can really distract the main army while your ground moves in (or the other way around). You should give it a try. It's fun!
My life for Aiur.
QQmonster
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada240 Posts
December 22 2010 06:40 GMT
#18
On December 22 2010 15:38 CoSyN wrote:
On small maps such as Scrap Station where an air army is ideal, I like to wall-off my ramp and tech straight to vikings (with the occasional production of some marines or tanks). After I get my first two, I build reactors on my two starports and then continuously pump them out. Once I have a decent amount, I fly them to my opponent's base and harass his eco. Then I push out with my ground army and do a two-pronged attack. This can work especially well against Zerg as Vikings can really distract the main army while your ground moves in (or the other way around). You should give it a try. It's fun!


The best part about vikings is they're a lot like mutas. You can harrass, but then they can also join the main army when it's show time. They're a neat little unit that I think will be used more in the future for their ground mode once harrass techniques and timings get figured out.
EX-top 10 guildwars player yeye XD
TheUberMango
Profile Joined December 2010
United States77 Posts
December 22 2010 06:47 GMT
#19
There was another thread on this... They are good as a last resort in a battle, and harass. They do fairly well against Zerglings, as long as they don't get surrounded. You can also land vikings on tanks, kind of like bombing them in BW with shuttle zealot. They kill miners quite fast, but don't be overaggressive and lose all of them to blink stalkers or stimmed marines, as they are somewhat slow.
Fear the mango! update, ok I honestly didn't know there was a mod named Mango when I made this
Conrose
Profile Joined October 2010
437 Posts
December 22 2010 06:48 GMT
#20
On December 22 2010 09:25 k43r wrote:
I do viking drops. You need to land vikings, put them in medivacs and dorp them on opponent base. ;D joke

I don't see use of thsi skill. Vikings are very slow, so it's hard to use them as harass.


It's a great way of messing with a zerg player's head when they scout what they suspect to be a large MM drop only to find that it's actually an attack meant to supply block them in a hurry while also quickly sniping the Queen/s that would otherwise have done well at chasing them away. Get as many Drones as you can get away with while your Medivacs head back to support your MM ball. Once the Zerg ground comes by, lift off and hunt yourself some overlords. Not much left to deter you with the Queen instagibbed.
Xylarthen
Profile Joined October 2010
United States137 Posts
December 22 2010 06:52 GMT
#21
As a few people said before in different posts, and QQmonster just said, They are good on the ground if there is no air and if you want to harass.

On December 22 2010 09:41 ledarsi wrote:
Really, Blizzard dresses the Viking up as being versatile but it's really one of the most specialist units in the game.


I cannot disagree enough with that. I don't think Blizzard "dressed" the Viking up as versatile. I played BW up until about 2001, and the Wraith and Scout were not "versatile" because they could attack ground targets as well, they were AA units with a perk, cloak and speed respectively that just happened (with some thought) to be able to attack ground as well. The Viking has strong air in the redesign of SC2, and the perk is range at the cost of the transition to kinda effective ground damage. Then never claim it's versatile, they never did before. It can do what it can do.

If I didn't make my point well enough for anyone disagreeing with me, is the Corruptor versatile because it can morph into a Brood Lord and attack the ground? Not in the same ballpark as a Marine, Stalker or Mutalisk is in their ability to attack both ground and air. This isn't to say there is not a hard counter to pretty much everything or better playing can't get around, but it has been said above that they can harass, but the ground mode is really if they are not needed to do their primary purpose, which is AA with the perk of being behind the main conflict due to range or kiting in the same regard.

If anyone thinks I made ledarsi's point I simply believe Blizzard had no intention of secretly or subliminally making the Viking versatile to those who were smart enough to see it, I believe they used the same formula as before from SC1 and retailored a unit to fit differently into the new metagame. I agree with him that the unit is specialized, but not that Bliz tried to make it anything but, that's like saying they thought Zealots would be different now that they have charge instead of speed.
He who becomes a beast forgets the pain of being a man.
bluesoup
Profile Joined March 2009
Macedonia107 Posts
December 22 2010 07:18 GMT
#22
Don't underestimate vikings in ground more as 3 can wreck chaos in undefended mineral line (be it probes or SCVs) to the point he has to run workers or loose a lot. They have high rate of fire in ground mode, and deal a lot of damage if nothing is shooting back. I used it mostly in TvT like after failed banshee rush which would kill just few scvs. Than i land my vikings in his base and get double of that kills. Unupgraded marines suck vs vikings, especially if they funnel 1 by 1 trough something. TvP, leftover vikings after cleaning up collosi can also be used to harras mineral line, but be careful not to loose them all to wrap-in stalkers... Vs Zerg, you need more vikings to attempt this as queens provide decent defense, and while you are done with the queen, units come that will defend...

There was one game on delta where i used my vikings in TvT as mutas. My opponent went pure bio and fast expoed to both his back and forward natural while skipping turrets. Land vikings in one of those, he will 1a run his bio there. Lift before he gets there and land on the other (short air distance, long run for the bio). He overstimmed, lost too much time dealing with my vikings and than he saw the tanks siege in front of his base while he was chasing vikings... gg.

Sadly tank/viking is no longer so viable in TvT after last round of patches...
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
December 22 2010 07:21 GMT
#23
On December 22 2010 08:42 GaryBrackett wrote:
vikings are really good at dethin stuff like DT's/HT's when in Ground Mode, also with upgrades they rly strong P

+ Show Spoiler +
Liquid_Brackett



I saw your posts in another thread. Why do you have "Liquid_Brackett" in a spoiler in every post???
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
SteveNick
Profile Joined November 2008
United States304 Posts
December 22 2010 07:28 GMT
#24
The most I see of landed vikings in PvT is when they have killed all my Collosi and want to try to do a finishing push by landing their vikings and reinforcing their ground army with them. Zealots/Stalkers destroy vikings easily, but if a Protoss is already on their last leg, landing 8+ vikings can be the finishing blow.
It's all fun and games until somebody gets 4gated.
thoradycus
Profile Joined August 2010
Malaysia3262 Posts
December 22 2010 07:40 GMT
#25
Vikings are goliaths with wings.Use them in conjunction with your tanks in Tvt to do a big push,or land them on top of the opposing tank line(undefended).
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
December 22 2010 07:50 GMT
#26
Landed viking DPS: Vs light 10 Vs armored 14

Stalker DPS: Vs light 6.94 Vs armored 9.72


To be fair, it probably says more about how weak stalkers are, rather than how strong landed vikings are.

/QQ.

All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
pirsq
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia145 Posts
December 22 2010 07:56 GMT
#27
The problem with ground-mode vikings is that usually you'd only build them to use against air units. Even if they're cost-effective in an isolated battle (against zealots, for example), losing a bunch of them on the ground means that when you lift up, you'll no longer have as many vikings as you wanted for anti-air. When you take this into account, vikings are no longer cost-effective on the ground except in the few limited scenarios where they completely dominate (vs workers/buildings, on a ledge, vs single file zerglings, vs a lone sieged tank, protecting marines from banelings, etc). Otherwise, you should only land them when you're sure you won't need them in the air any more.
ledarsi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States475 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 10:23:04
December 22 2010 10:22 GMT
#28
Responding to Xylarthen, the lore for the viking claims that it was created as a more versatile Goliath. Which is just nonsense. Allegedly in the brood war terran anti air was shown to be lacking... so they went and made it ten times worse... Well, they do this sort of reversal all the time, such as saying they "added a survivability package" to the tank while leaving its stats the same and inflating everything's damage. Basically if it says a unit was designed by the race to be X, it is the opposite of that.

The goliath could attack air and ground without a lengthy transition period, and also was a more effective generalist anti-air unit in the first place, where the viking is only effective against armored air, and gets crushed by mutalisks.

From brood war the terran lost the goliath, the wraith, and the valkyrie, and only got the thor and viking in return. I suppose you could include the banshee since it got the wraith's cloak, but it has no anti air so whatever. The thor got the valkyrie's splash, but its dps is terrible. The viking is more similar to the wraith than the goliath in a lot of ways, as you said, because it is largely an anti-air unit, with the perk of occasionally being used to attack ground units. However its ground dps is quite bad, and it's very fragile and expensive on par with air units, where beefier and higher-damage ground only units will obliterate it when it lands. The thor is more similar to the goliath in a lot of ways, except its ground attack is HUGE and its air attack is dreadful, pretty much the opposite of the old school goliath.
"First decide who you would be, then do what you must do."
Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 10:34:53
December 22 2010 10:33 GMT
#29
Vikings in ground mode have the same range and higher dps than a stalker. That's not too bad for a unit that can just fly off and evacuate. I think people really underestimate ground mode viking dps. (and overestimate Stalker dps, but that aside). You can use them in your main army I think.

As in air mode, the problem with vikings is not their low dps, but their low hp. Vikings are high dps / low hp units, like dark templar. So if you land, do damage, and get out before they the enemy reacts to kill them, it's a favourable deal. They kill stuff pretty fast, they just die pretty fast too.
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
BC.KoRn
Profile Joined February 2003
Canada567 Posts
December 22 2010 11:12 GMT
#30
Viking's usefulness in ground mode:

1) When spotting vulnerable workers.

2) Base building harass to split up your opponents army and killing off a few depots/pylons if your lucky.

3) In close battles when the opposing player does not have any sort of air threat left it might be a good idea to land the Vikings to help tilt the battle in your favour.

4) Killing enemy scouts parked at towers.


On December 22 2010 08:40 majestouch wrote:
in tvt you can land vikings on siege tanks and they will do a little damage and the enemy siege tanks will do firendly fire to their own tanks, also, you can do harrass around the map etc



ThumperSD
Profile Joined September 2010
United States333 Posts
December 22 2010 11:14 GMT
#31
You can also use it to bait some banelings so you can lower the baneling count
wake up your mind
ledarsi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States475 Posts
December 22 2010 11:56 GMT
#32
As Silmakuoppaanikinko said, the problem is the viking's hp. Their dps is actually acceptable in absolute terms, although it's bad for cost. For 150 minerals and 75 gas you get the equivalent of 1.5 unstimmed marines on the ground, in a package with less survivability than a marauder (but more than 2 marines, granted).

Against armored air vikings are excellent. Against light air and anything on the ground they are terrible. Get almost any other unit instead to fight those types of targets.
"First decide who you would be, then do what you must do."
sk4rsn1k
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany25 Posts
December 22 2010 12:15 GMT
#33
.. dont 4get the change from air units to ground units make them invincible vs air only attacks .. like corrupters and other vikings .. like in tvt when u loose the air dominance dont fight till ur last viking if u see it wont work out .land em and retreat ^^
Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
December 22 2010 13:04 GMT
#34
On December 22 2010 20:56 ledarsi wrote:
As Silmakuoppaanikinko said, the problem is the viking's hp. Their dps is actually acceptable in absolute terms, although it's bad for cost. For 150 minerals and 75 gas you get the equivalent of 1.5 unstimmed marines on the ground, in a package with less survivability than a marauder (but more than 2 marines, granted).

Against armored air vikings are excellent. Against light air and anything on the ground they are terrible. Get almost any other unit instead to fight those types of targets.
Well, air units as a rule have less dps for cost, obviously because they're less manevourable, did you know a Zergling has more dps than a mutalisk to its primary target? The viking ground dps is also higher than the corruptor dps against massive targets, not counting corruption. Corruptor has 200 hp though.

Viking ground dps is pretty good for cost I'd say. Its hp is just quite low.

What I've always wondered though is this 'paper airplane' thing, I mean the phoenix has 180 points including shield. THat's almost as high a a corruptor, the warp prism also has more than the viking, so why isn't the viking a 'paper airplane' The phoenix also has more than the banshee.

Methinks that the term is more used for things that simply look fragile cosmetically, instead of a term reserved for actual game stats.
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
TheGiz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada708 Posts
December 22 2010 14:53 GMT
#35
A lot of vikings on the ground can actually do a fair amount of damage. This doesn't last long though as Stalkers will ruin them in comparable numbers.

Generally though I have no respect for Vikings, especially on the ground. Terrans don't ground them properly I think. They should integrate them with their main army when their opponent gives up the air. Most of the time I'll see useless Vikings flying around and then get grounded too late as an afterthought, or committed too long to some harass.

Viking ground mode should be used to kill a Probe line and get the hell out of there, not linger trying to destroy a 1000/1000 Nexus. When they have nothing to kill they should be a part of the main army, not flying around aimlessly or grounded to help after the army has been destroyed.
Life is not about making due with what you have; it's about finding out just how much you can achieve. Never settle for anything less than the best. - - - Read my blog!
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
December 22 2010 15:03 GMT
#36
The problem with Vikings is that they don't keep up with ground upgrades. I guess if you throw money into air attack and air armor they would prolly be good late game. But you aren't going to do that because air upgrades don't scale that well and no one has viable Big Air builds on maps that aren't Scrap Station.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
deathray797
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
196 Posts
December 22 2010 15:16 GMT
#37
if any of u watched kawaiirice's stream a while ago i remember he was playing against a friend and his composition was marine, tank, ground viking. so basically kawaii was just using the vikings as a meat shield for the banelings. thinking about it, it is slightly more efficient than using marauders for several reasons:

-you can pump more marines because you (can) have more reactors less tech labs on barracks

-vikings have higher dps vs zerglings and banelings than marauders without stim (with stim im not sure, but keep in mind that stim deals damage to marauders), making them more efficient vs both zerglings and banelings than marauders

-i havent confirmed this but vikings LOOK fatter than marauders so its probably harder to get a surround on them

-this isnt really a benefit but i just want to mention you can repair vikings so instead of medivac healing 2 of the 3 units you have (marine marauder) you have scv repairing 2 of the 3 units you have (tank viking)


however the cons:

-vikings cost more.. obviously

-fewer medivacs because you need the vikings




soo yea. additionally, after the match i asked kawaii if he thought the composition was good and he said no so... tell me what u guys think
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
December 22 2010 15:20 GMT
#38
as others have mentioned they are cost-worthy against banelings.

Due to their mechanic they often choose were the fight take place and small units coming in a line etc is a good fight.

If you played brood war they can be treated as wraiths when fighting.
Mr_Kyo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States269 Posts
December 22 2010 15:39 GMT
#39
The slow transformation speed makes them very vulnerable. Harassment is often a bigger risk than its potential reward. I would say its most useful lategame where your opponent has several expansion.
Sv1
Profile Joined June 2010
United States204 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 15:47:16
December 22 2010 15:43 GMT
#40
I guess there are too ways of looking at it. Vikings as supporters or vikings as army staples.

As a supporter role vikings would be in smaller numbers, your 6-8 vikings to deal with colossus or brood lords.

As my or an army staple unit. Landing them to support tanks/hellions isn't all that bad. They fire fast, should you upgrade them they get decent damage (but that's still rare). They're basically expensive hydras with some more hp. You can get a decent viking count off of 2 base, but you'll cut into any barracks units if you planned on making them.

Frustratingly enough though I believe they are the only "armored" classified unit that doesn't come with +1 base armor.

Someone previously had suggested dropping 4 from a medivac, I'll have to give that a try. I found out that you could do that by accident and laughed at how silly that seems (what happens if the pilot hits the switch inside the medivac!!!). Given how clumsy their landing mode can be, just think. 6 seconds of an attack are spent landing/taking off. Not terribly ideal. 4 Vikings though do pretty well against an unsuspecting mineral line.
Mensab
Profile Joined June 2010
United States27 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 16:19:51
December 22 2010 16:18 GMT
#41
Ground mode vikings die to any force that is even remotely in the same ballpark in terms of value or food count (try it in the unit tester, except for the ghost, but thats more of caster). So its really just best if they are used for harass to take out a worker line or key tech building. They cost a great deal more than marauders, but can't stim, take up more space, and deal only slightly more dps to non armored targets.

Best to have them escort drops, or snipe overlords, really. But if the opponent is foolish enough to leave that mineral line undefended, hey why not. Keep in mind that if the opponent has an abundance of workers, he can easily take out a few vikings with them. (Yeah viking ground mode is that bad.)
QQmonster
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada240 Posts
December 22 2010 18:49 GMT
#42
the benefit of vikings is their anti air and harrass potential while still being able to add to the main army substantially.

If a protoss makes a stargate and pumpes out a handful of void rays/carriers and I make vikings to respond, my left over vikings will supplement my ground army substantially considering the protosses ground fleet will be much weaker due to the investment in air. The key here is that vikings are a ground AND air investment at the same time, a very flexible and versatile unit.
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XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
December 22 2010 19:22 GMT
#43
In TvZ you can actully reverse the roles and have the vikings deal with the lings and soak up the blings while your marines rape the mutas
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Faze.
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada285 Posts
December 22 2010 19:30 GMT
#44
On December 23 2010 04:22 XXXSmOke wrote:
In TvZ you can actully reverse the roles and have the vikings deal with the lings and soak up the blings while your marines rape the mutas



Yup, have only 1 viking drop in front of your marines, it takes like 5 or 6 (or maybe more) banelings to kill 1 viking, and that saves many marines, well worth the sacrifice. But only works on poorly controled banelings, players who use banelings a lot will know to right click move their banelings in a seperated control group until they have a good positioning.
D:
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
December 22 2010 19:55 GMT
#45
their control is hard if you want to add their ground mode into battle and rely on it. People are normally supriced by well used ground vikings and underestimate them. They have a nice aspd for a mech unit, that makes them good against lings or zealots, also can tank banelings like a marauder. But you have to take their morph time into account so you need a superior scouting to use them right or you will lose them because they are in the wrong mode. They are the kind of unit that is hard to kill, since they can lift fly away and get repaired.
Their biggest weakness are the ground to ground anti tank units though.
Severus_
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
759 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 20:03:53
December 22 2010 20:00 GMT
#46
I'm currently working on a SK terran style with vikings.You make marines and vikings if the guy makes banelings you have viking to tank the dmg and they do decent ground dmg i think 12 or something.That is the way i use them and for air to kill ovies.
jnkw
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada347 Posts
December 22 2010 20:08 GMT
#47
Vikings can also be very handy as that little extra boost to turn the tide of an otherwise very close fight once you've taken out all the air targets. It provides them with some usefulness near the end of a battle once there are only ground enemy units left.
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
December 22 2010 20:32 GMT
#48
Ground mode Vikings will lose for cost to just about anything, including Zerglings, marines, banelings, etc.

That said, they do roughly as much DPS as marines, which is good (though not for cost I suppose). However, despite being 'bad' against zerglings, they do okay in a bind against small numbers. In a rock papper scissors situation, landing Vikings is worthless. But in the real game, where mobility is a big issue, Vikings are a great way to deal with a small number of lings doing a runby, they are great at harassment, and can add much needed DPS with your army or drop when there is little opposition, but you need to do a lot of damage.

Landing vikings to fight or on tanks is usually a sign of you being ahead anyways, and isn't necessary but can definitely seal a lead, ie already having air control in TvT so landing on opponents tanks.
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link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-22 20:53:28
December 22 2010 20:51 GMT
#49
Vikings transform far too slowly and both walk and fly too slowly to be used for harass in high level play. That, combined with their extremely low hp for cost makes them the worst possible harrassment/scout unit. To risk multiple 150/75 units for the chance to kill a few probes is not a smart decision.
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Mr_Kyo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States269 Posts
December 22 2010 21:15 GMT
#50
I would much rather gravity beam over transformation. Harassment would be so much easier.
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
December 23 2010 03:03 GMT
#51
On December 23 2010 05:51 link0 wrote:
Vikings transform far too slowly.


That's the point of the earlier suggestion to load them into medivacs instead.
It is easier for 3 medivacs to slip past the opponent's notice than 12 flying vikings.
Cauterize the area
iAmJeffReY
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4262 Posts
December 23 2010 03:16 GMT
#52
They own. Drop them behind minerals lines, or pick off pylons. They attack like 2 marines in one, and can get up and fly away very fast.

My second favorite unit behind reapers. In my epic 23-1 4v4 RT record I 80% of the time mass vikings for harassing or fighting air lol

In solo, I've actually won games where zerg put buildings in main and blocked in a little area, dropped two vikings and got a queen and workers, guy left game lol
Unbiased biased terran abuser Jeffrey. Sorry for the rage, friend!
Kudo
Profile Joined December 2009
United States31 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 03:45:15
December 23 2010 03:37 GMT
#53
On December 22 2010 09:01 OriginalBeast wrote:
its basically used for harass... but did you know that you can put landed vikings in a medivac drop them and immediately fly the medivac away, after the vikings you damage they can transform back into flight mode and leave on their own, thats how you get creative with a landed viking maximizing its usefulness.

lol at this comment. Why don't you do this. FLY the vikings, land them, harass, and then fly away? Why waste a drop ship to carry vikings....
I mean, if you are in a position where viking transform is too slow, you are probably not going to do any damage anyways, and lose your drop to boot. I'm pretty sure stimmed rines/rauders are much better, and have much higher survivability.
If anything, you should be using those medivacs to simultaneous drop elsewhere.

For the most part, I find vikings to be useless. Vikings are only good when they can't get hit. I'd take medivacs over vikings anyday.
Manjix
Profile Joined October 2010
Malaysia10 Posts
December 23 2010 04:19 GMT
#54
On December 23 2010 12:37 Kudo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2010 09:01 OriginalBeast wrote:
its basically used for harass... but did you know that you can put landed vikings in a medivac drop them and immediately fly the medivac away, after the vikings you damage they can transform back into flight mode and leave on their own, thats how you get creative with a landed viking maximizing its usefulness.

lol at this comment. Why don't you do this. FLY the vikings, land them, harass, and then fly away? Why waste a drop ship to carry vikings....
I mean, if you are in a position where viking transform is too slow, you are probably not going to do any damage anyways, and lose your drop to boot. I'm pretty sure stimmed rines/rauders are much better, and have much higher survivability.
If anything, you should be using those medivacs to simultaneous drop elsewhere.

For the most part, I find vikings to be useless. Vikings are only good when they can't get hit. I'd take medivacs over vikings anyday.


It's the other way round, pick up with medivacs and fly away instead of transforming. You pick up Vikings with Medivacs FASTER than transforming them. Besides, dropping them with Medivacs CAN be FASTER than transforming them, a pro can drop AND move at the same time. Instead of allowing your opponent to "Oh, the Vikings are transforming, I gotta run", you show a Medivac and start dropping those Vikes, to attack them BEFORE they could even respond.

Besides, Vikings are actually very good as a ground unit. They do decent DPS and they are armored. Given that you're at a food advantage, you could land those Vikes to increase your ground army size.

Lastly : Vikings make Overlords QQ.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum
MrMoist
Profile Joined August 2010
United States72 Posts
December 23 2010 04:51 GMT
#55
NO NO NO NO NO NO

DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE THAT SAYS THAT DROPPING VIKINGS ON TANKS IS A GOOD IDEA.

Unless the tank count is like less than 3 and they're completely balled up, which is VERY unlikely assuming the fact that by the time you have enough vikings, they'll have a large number of siege tanks.
A bank is where they lend you an umbrella in fair weather and ask for it back when it begins to rain.
Sv1
Profile Joined June 2010
United States204 Posts
December 23 2010 05:32 GMT
#56
On December 23 2010 13:51 MrMoist wrote:
NO NO NO NO NO NO

DO NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE THAT SAYS THAT DROPPING VIKINGS ON TANKS IS A GOOD IDEA.

Unless the tank count is like less than 3 and they're completely balled up, which is VERY unlikely assuming the fact that by the time you have enough vikings, they'll have a large number of siege tanks.


I agree somewhat, but it's a judgment call. Sometimes dropping a viking or two on balled up tanks will be enough to force the out of seige which could be a quick stim-direct a attack on the tanks. Trading a viking for a tank I think is pretty much in the viking's favor.
Komsa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States99 Posts
December 23 2010 06:18 GMT
#57
Vikings ground mode is good to avoid ANTI AIR WEAPONS SON. HARD COUNTERS ANTI AIR WEAPONS IN FACT!
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. -Woodrow Wilson
Sek-Kuar
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic593 Posts
December 23 2010 11:13 GMT
#58
On December 22 2010 08:40 freetgy wrote:
well you can harass with it on undefended expos, imho it is a pretty interesting ability.
their not that weak if you got a decent number anyway.




More you have weaker they are.

They are about as huge as immortals, you often cant land more than 3 or 5-7 in open field battles.

Getting more than 5 for harass is just wrong, then it takes like 5 seconds to find landing spot for them. Can be considered sacrificing, unless there is nothing to fight back.
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CortoMontez
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia608 Posts
December 23 2010 11:29 GMT
#59
I remember watching this TvT where a viking was chasing another, and was about to kill it, but it was then landed and began to waddle away. (Into a bunch of marauders, but that's besides the point)
"Creator was doing a really good job trying to win without storm but it was like eating spaghetti with a screwdriver." -Severian
ensis
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany340 Posts
December 23 2010 11:35 GMT
#60
they are almost as strong as one stalker and only 25 gas more expensive, so they arent even half bad.
and just scout and clear watchtowers or kill off pylons. maybe harrassment is an option, but its not that good of an idea i think.
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Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
December 23 2010 11:43 GMT
#61
On December 23 2010 20:35 ensis wrote:
they are almost as strong as one stalker and only 25 gas more expensive, so they arent even half bad.
and just scout and clear watchtowers or kill off pylons. maybe harrassment is an option, but its not that good of an idea i think.
A viking does 12 dps against whatever. A stalker 6.94 against light and 9.72 versus armoured.

The point is more that a viking has 120 health and a stalker has 160.

Viking dps, in either mode, is great, their hp is just shamefully low.
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
December 23 2010 14:28 GMT
#62
Except you prolly won't have upgrades on the viking.
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Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
December 23 2010 16:35 GMT
#63
On December 23 2010 23:28 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Except you prolly won't have upgrades on the viking.
A +3 stalker still has a dps of 11.8055556 against armoured, whaddayaknow, a stalker can never out-dps a viking.

People who say that vikings have low dps are out of their mind, in either mode vikings are high dps / low hp units, the stalker is sort of the inverse.

The reason Vikings lose to a lot of units is their low health and 0 armour, not their dps. Which makes them great for taking out workers in high speed, and then lifting off and flying away before the other can shoot them down.

It's the same with air, for cost, their dps is insane. But they have sooo little hp. They actually do much more dps against a phoenix than the reverse, but the phoenix wins because it doesn't have 120 hp. I never got why vikings aren't called paper airplanes.
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
ledarsi
Profile Joined September 2010
United States475 Posts
December 25 2010 21:33 GMT
#64
Yes, that's exactly the problem. For cost their dps is insane, but it has low hp. The advantage that air has is that HP is buffered somewhat by only being targeted by anti-air weapons. Landed vikings give up that protection, and they retain their terrible hp.
"First decide who you would be, then do what you must do."
eatpraylove
Profile Joined October 2010
United States53 Posts
December 25 2010 23:27 GMT
#65
I've used them for three of the things already mentioned:

* Dropping onto balled-up tanks
* Dropping onto undefended mineral lines
* Adding them to a ground army for a little extra firepower.

Plus, it's funny to watch them waddle around--like March of the Penguins or something.

However, I don't think I've ever seen a high-level player do any of those things so I sure as hell am not going to recommend any of them. Anyone got any replays or videos of such?
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-25 23:32:07
December 25 2010 23:31 GMT
#66
Their dps isn't insane at all. 12 dps for 150/75, yay...

0 armor and 0 self-healing and extremely slow speed in both modes.
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