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Direct quote from a clanmate:
Oke guys. some of you know this but not all so i thought id throw it out there.
This is especially helpful for gold or lower since collosi/stalker is a very common tactic. In previous battles you needed to thin out the stalkers in order to get a shot at the collosi. Only to see the collosi retreat and you cant get to them in time to kill them. Well not any more.
Scenario:
In this scenario we have a protoss versus a zerg
stalker & Collosi vs roach & hydra
Protoss formation: Stalkers in front, collosi in the back
Zerg formation: Roaches in front, hydras in the back
The collosi have their range upgrade and the hydra's do too
These two armies meet on the battlefield.
keep in mind roaches can take way more shots from the collosi then the hydras can.
The key for the protoss player is to keep the collosi at maximum range. Since they are way more effective against hydras then roaches. the collosi target the hydras at extreme range in order to take out as many units as possible. (the less enemy units, the less damage received.)
The key for the zerg player is to take out the collosi and then mop up the remaining units since most of the fire power has been destroyed. Roaches pretty much kick gate unit ass.
Now here comes the trick.
When the armies meet, you have to put your roaches right up against the stalkers. Get your hydras on extreme range and start killing stalkers. the collosi needs to move further up to attack the hydras. This is the point where the hydras cant hit the collosi, but the roaches can! The roaches are all the way up in the face of the stalkers and thus very close to the collosi. So you leave your hydras to attack the stalkers and use your roaches to attack the collosi.
you can ofcourse close in on the collosi with your hydras, but this will result in the opponent moving his collosi back so he has the upper hand again.
using this tactic will result in taking away the range advantage of the collosi. The protoss player will need to kill of alot of heavily armoured roaches before being able to target your heavy hitting hydras. this will turnthe whole situation around.
I really disagree with him, and he also believes that
I do try NOT to use corruptors. because him tech switching to something other then gollosi and air will keep you holding the bag full of corrupters. Which then become pointless. It is actually more recourse efficient for him to tech switch to something else. say you have 6 corrupters and he tech switches to an all out gate tactic. having less the n6 corruptors you risk losing them all to stalkers before you take out all the collosi then your behind. And when do you ever reach the point in a game where you will be making broodlords. I like to avoid this completely and with (lets be honest) intense micro you will actually beat it anyway.
This all saves me resources and time to make more units or expand.
ps: why would you need corruptors late game ?
Discuss? I'd like to get some more opinions on this.
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That's pretty ridiculous, tbh. First of all, it assumes that the protoss player isn't doing any micro and doesn't have any sentries.
Second, what he's saying about the problem with corrupters and that the protoss can tech switch is nonsense. Tech switching is a really tall order for protoss. Obviously, the only good switch would be to HTs who takes a long time. And then the zerg can transition to brood lords from corruptors relatively easily.
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Forcefields prevent that kind of micro in the first place. And corruptors ignore forcefields while pressuring colossi and you have roach hydra to take care of gateway units first.
Left over corrupters after colossi have been wiped out are not 'useless.' They discourage P from producing colossi again since colossi really become a threat in numbers (4+). Not to mention, with the recent popularity of stargate tech combined with colossi, corrupters are amost a necessity.
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He's right maybe it would probably work at gold level or below!
Of course my experience with gold level players is their micro isn't that solid during battles.
Also his argument about tech-switching is kind of moot. What's protoss going to tech switch to? Immortal/gateway? Easy to deal with just by pumping zerglings and using attack move. Let the stalkers/immortals waste dps on the lings while the roaches take out the zealots.
Besides that, protoss doesn't have time to tech-switch. If zerg is able to counter his colossus/stalker/sentry push by overproducing corruptors, zerg should be on its way to hive tech and greater spire, ie broodlords. Roach/broodlord/corruptor is a terrible army for protoss to fight.
If protoss ever loses all his colossi and isn't ahead in bases of the zerg, it's very hard to make a comeback. It doesn't really matter if he tries to 'techswitch'. Protoss aren't very good at that.
In practice zerg is better off going like, roach muta zergling, or roach ling, or roach infestor with NP, or anything except hydralisks. you can flank with roach/zergling etc. And flanks are really good against smaller protoss gateway/colo balls.
Issues:
One, this protoss doesn't have zealots? Please ram your roaches into my zealots instead of trying to kite.
Two, i'm perfectly happy to let my colossus go to town on your roaches instead of hydras. Because I will stutter step my ball backwards and your hydras will have to chase. Except they're soooo slow.
Three, if I forcefield behind your roaches and pull back my ball then your army is separated, roaches can't retreat, hydras can't push forward.
Four. well just forcefield in general.
as far as forcefield goes, people don't use it at lower levels.
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One word: Forcefields.
Also, saying "what good are corruptors in late game anyway" is just ridiculous.
1st of all, a Protoss doesn't just lol-techswitch to High templar from Colossi. That's a totally different tech path.
2ndly, and this really should be obvious, in late game those corruptors become broodlords.
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He is right that roaches + hydras rape gateway units, but they are not going to win against colossus balls.
You absolutely need corruptors. He says that a tech switch out of colossus will rape you, but thats incorrect. Not getting corruptors would leave your army way to vulnerable, and dead.
Corruptors can turn into broodlords, which can rape late game. Also corruption, if you have the micro for it, can really help rape stalkers, in addition to colossus.
Not getting corruptors, a perfect unit apt for killing colossus, in addition you should have a spire anyway, would just overall be a poor decision making.
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Roach/Hydra vs Colossi/Stalker is very doable, the hard part is when sentries and zealots are involved, this becomes more difficult. Here is where the infestor and baneling come in, both are needed to help turn the tides. Banelings with their insta damage AOE and Infestors for removing micro (holding in place) and a damaging AOE. A normal Roach/Hydra composition with 10 banelings and 2 infestors can add a lot of value to your army, the main thing is getting your banelings to connect, so engaging with infestors then roach/hydra with banelings flanking is a win.
Corrupters are always a good choice but you HAVE to have made the tech to hive or on the way to greater spire to even think about corrupters because you need brood lords after colossi die. Also I've found a good tech switch after killing colossi with roach/hydra/infestor is muta/ling because it's extremely mobile and allows you to counter quite easily. Also his comp at that point will exist of mostly stalker and immortals to try and counter your ground army, muta/ling cleans this up easy.
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Sentries ruin a lot of roach/hyrda vs Stalker/Collosi situations. Without sentries, microing roach/hydra vs collosi would be a lot easier.
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Canada11355 Posts
ps: why would you need corruptors late game ?
What's broodlords?
EDIT: Also, have you ever asked a P player what peats the ball of death? They ALWAYS say something/corrupter. Usually muta/ling/corrupter or just muta/corrupter. Show hydras, build the den and maybe make a couple for show. then hard switch to muta/corrupter.
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Sounds like your clanmate is pretty bad.
Its not the stalker/colossi ball that's so deadly, its the forcefields.
If you walk half your army right up to Toss's stalkers, he just going to FF the other half while its out of range, and thank you for the free kills you just gave him.
Corruptors are the only way to realistically deal with the late game colossus ball.
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On December 20 2010 15:29 MrBitter wrote:
Sounds like your clanmate is pretty bad.
Its not the stalker/colossi ball that's so deadly, its the forcefields.
If you walk half your army right up to Toss's stalkers, he just going to FF the other half while its out of range, and thank you for the free kills you just gave him.
Corruptors are the only way to realistically deal with the late game colossus ball.
QFT
Also, broodlords are the trump card vs P.
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EPT
