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on 4 player maps when the scouted zerg is not in the nearest base, you really need to send your 9th drone out not 10th as the above poster stated. You'd be surprised how many people still do 6-10 pools and scouting with the 10th drone (1900 level.) - assuming the enemy zerg spawned cross position (worst) and you scout him that late, you'll probably already invested in a 13 pool without reason or just gotten 14 drones already.
I don't like ZvZ and I am guilty of 6 pooling when I'm angry but aside from that.
You have multiple options but in order to perfect ZvZ you need to get used to timing pushes.
As I started playing higher ranked Zerg I found that I've seen less fast-muta play and more expansion-roach / speedling.baneling play. This is because someone who turbos to mutas will get punished easily unless everything goes right.
It's really easy to fend off someone who goes 1 base muta with a few queens .. you don't even need spores. If you see a slow(er) transition into mutas then you might want some spores but by then you should easily have hydras/infestors out. Basically I'm saying the only way mass muta works is if you sit in your base and do nothing. Infestors, EVEN 1 INFESTOR, can REALLY shut down muta play. Just to give you perspective; it's quite possible to kill 6-10 mutas with 1 Infestor and a miniscule amount of hydras with no risk of hydras dying.
I wish I could give you a build order but I'm honestly still trying to figure out something that "works." but good timed roach pushes (+1 attack helps vs speedlings) can shut down an expanding zerg/quick 1 base play.
Most important thing to do is be aware of what your opponent is doing. ZvZ is all about proper countering + timing. .. okay that's with all matches but I think for ZvZ moreso.
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How is 14 hatch/pool safe against Roach builds? Or baneling builds for htat matter?
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On November 03 2010 10:05 tskarzyn wrote:
speedling> roach
Thats only true if he manages a surround. If you know hes going speedlings hug something so he can only attack from one side. In that case roaches will win, but youve gotta be really careful. roach speed helps alot, and should be considered mandatory if youre going for some roach push/all-in.
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What I found to be reallly sooper effective is stealing BOTH GAS. it denys speedlings/roaches/lair tech so the only thing they can do is spine crawler/masslings. and if he trys to expand just harras with your speedlings. this for obvious reasons doesnt work to well on 2v2 maps. but as long as you can tech to mutas before he can get sufficent aa and the mass amount of lings hell be throwing at you.
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On November 03 2010 13:33 nihoh wrote:
How is 14 hatch/pool safe against Roach builds? Or baneling builds for htat matter?
16 Hatch 15 Pool is more standard nowadays, its pretty safe on most maps, and if you scout an early pool you can throw down your own pool on 13/14 and be safe. After that its either droning time, Baneling Wars etc. Scout and be fine. You can easily defend everything your opponent throws at you.
edit to the one above me.
Stealing both gas is waste of your money, if you dont early pool him he can get his expo relative safe and gas there. Sure the gas will come 30 seconds late + mining time, but most of the time it isnt a problem.
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BO and units composition is also very map/spawn location specific. On scrap station FE into roach is very bad, but is good on maps where you have a small choke as LT. On smaller maps, roach/queen/infestor is good. Also note timings and always try to get a ling up the ramp and scout his base to know whats up.
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14 hatch is very safe against roach and baneling builds because the time it takes to get that tech, make the units and move to your base, you already have a spine (if you decide to build one), 2 queens and 2 hatches good to go. queens destroy banes and spine/lings destroy roaches. After your hatch is up (around 20 supply)you don't want to drone too hard and you want to tech roaches, you should be able to defend any attack with queens delaying if they rush you. And if they do rush you and you don't see an expansion (overlord placement is key, you want your first overlord near an area where you can see them expand) then it's an auto-win for you because there is no way they can catch up to your larve production. If they expand after they push then you're still in good shape, build up drones and some roaches and make a timing attack. The hardest thing to deal with are mass speed lings, but that's what good overlord placement is for and can be countered with only a couple banelings. I should upload my zvz's as of late, i've been winning 90% of them with a 14 hatch into roach/hydra or infestor.
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Hey man, I see a lot of bad replies in this post.
I had lots of problem with ZvZ and has since then studdied it and this IS the way to do it, it's basically a copy of dimaga's playstyle (Look at blizzcon replays where he dominated all other zergs).
ZvZ is ALL about scouting, more then in any other setup becuase it's all about timing your hatch/pool with his. You want to scout on 9 on most maps, this allows you to see if he has gone for hatch/pool yet once your drone arrives. If he has gone for early pool, put yours down right away. Once his zergs/roaches reach you you'll have enough units of your own to defend due to travel distance and you now have a economical lead which will grant you the win unless you fuck up.
If you arrive and you DONT see a spawning pool what you want to do is block his hatch with your drone and hatch on 16 followed by spawning pool. Reason you hatch on 16 is becuase you get 300minirals by then by just spamming drones and overlords and spawning pool to get 2queens out to dominate his larva production and economy.
By now you can start to spam speedlings at your enemy, superior larva count and a good economy will rake hell.
DONT fast expand on maps that don't have a chocke on your expansion since you won't be able to defend this against early preassure. On maps with chockes you can easily throw down a few spinecrawlers, block ramp with queens and a few zerglings and spam drones into victory.
Once the first stages of the match is complete (early preassure) you want to get range/armor upgrades and switch into roaches into roach/hydra. Infestors can be worth it but usually just going mass roach/hydra with upgrades will neat you the win.
Once again check out all dimaga blizzcon replays and really study what he does. Don't do like me first time and say "oh he goes 16hatch 15 pool", insted ask yourself WHY does he go 16hatch 15pool. He adjusts after their playstyle, sometimes he goes 15hatch or 14hatch depending on the enemys opening.
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Hey, Diamond Zerg 1350+...In zvsz the simplest strategy is to have more units...Its pretty much a 1base vs 1base roach vs roach and then whoever comes out on top of the first battle and gets hydras or mutas usually wins the game. I wouldn't suggest infestors as they are way to gas heavy. A steady supply of roaches and hydras is your best option.
Build order:
9 overlord
13 pool
15 extractor
15 overlord
16 queen
20 Roach warren when the queen is exactly half built
20 overlord x2
wait for spawn larva to pop boom instantly 7 or 8 roaches...then wait for next larva to pop boom 5 or 6 more roaches...attack...drone...roaches..expand... and then tech and your good 
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EPT
