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When I get my gaming rig back I am definitely going to try more hydra play now that I will often be getting roaches and range upgrades. Idra tried some hydradrops in the metalopolis game in RO32 of GSL1 withouth too much success though.
How do your build play out if your opponent is aggressive throughout the game? (Sorry I couldnt watch your replay)
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I have 2 hatcheries inbase so if someone decides to rush me with zealots or marines i'm in an excellent position to defend. You just need to scout it on time and start producing lings instead of drones.
Against really aggressive marines strats I throw down a banelings nest. Sometimes I cancel the lair for extra gass but ling/baneling drops can be handy to imo. Just depends if you need the gass or not.
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Hydra drop should be thought of as a tactic rather than a build order. It's like saying marauder drops require a build order
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Drops are under-used by zerg in general I think.
People see a wall and then throw up their hands and just give up any hope of assaulting the base, and then spend the rest of the game waiting for their opponent to move out, where they get crushed by some perfect super-ball that their opponent spent the last 20 min making.
Drops and/or nydus are pretty effective, provided you have the right positioning... the issue I've had is that the terran has simcitied and since all his units are ranged, theres like 50 mini-chokes where you still get farmed. That probably does make hydras better than lings or roaches, but hydras without support are pretty garbage. I've tried infestor/hydra and had some success, because you can FG him while he's trying to use the chokes, and you can pick up your infestors to protect them, but it requires a fuckton of micro/apm.
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Hydra drop should be thought of as a tactic rather than a build order. It's like saying marauder drops require a build order
I drop at around the 10min. mark so I need a build order that gives me the most hydras in the fastest possible time.
Drops and/or nydus are pretty effective, provided you have the right positioning... the issue I've had is that the terran has simcitied and since all his units are ranged, theres like 50 mini-chokes where you still get farmed. That probably does make hydras better than lings or roaches, but hydras without support are pretty garbage
Yea those minichokes are really annoying but you can use lings as a meatshield against terrans ranged units. If you drop in an open place at his base you can use ovi creep spread to give your hydras and lings some mobility.
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I drop at around the 10min. mark so I need a build order that gives me the most hydras in the fastest possible time.
that just means that you enter the game emphasising that particular tactic and enhancing it with an optimised build order, its still a tactic. Everyone can drop hydras, some use nydus instead.
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On October 19 2010 02:09 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +I drop at around the 10min. mark so I need a build order that gives me the most hydras in the fastest possible time. that just means that you enter the game emphasising that particular tactic and enhancing it with an optimised build order, its still a tactic. Everyone can drop hydras, some use nydus instead.
Helion harass is a tactic, stim timing push is a tactic, 2 gate pressure is a tactic, early mutas are a tactic. All have a build order attached to it. Its a grey area.
Build order, tactic, who cares.
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Everyone can drop hydras, some use nydus instead.
You can fail using a nydus if your opponent kills it, you can't fail in dropping someones base.
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On October 19 2010 02:19 serverdown wrote:
You can fail using a nydus if your opponent kills it, you can't fail in dropping someones base.
Couldn't you just use the same logic for a drop, for if it gets sniped? It is all just a matter of what will work better on the map and in the certain situation.
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Im convinced that with decent micro zerg cannot be prevented from dropping in someones base in early mid-game.
If you do have trouble getting in you can use some empty overlords to lure his troops away and drop at a safe spot.
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Seems more viable in BW when you could hold your main entrance with lurkers + defiler so a basetrade woulda been a lot harder for an out of place terran / protoss
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On October 19 2010 03:38 CellTech wrote:
Seems more viable in BW when you could hold your main entrance with lurkers + defiler so a basetrade woulda been a lot harder for an out of place terran / protoss
Yes, if you're gonna drop you pretty much have to know where his army is, and that place should be far away from your base.
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One advantage to this strategy (build + tactic) is that it can't easily be scouted. Your opponent can't see that you are researching overlord drop, it just seems like you are massing hydras, and he will assume that he is safe from any fast aggression.
edit: Just tried it on the ladder. Works best on maps that lend themselves to drops. If you're on something like zel-naga caverns you end up with a base trade situation if your opponent pushes early.
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I haven't seen this much but I find that a lot of players send out a mass of overlords around the 8-12 min mark to get them unclumped and to do some scouting. I usually see this happening and it often looks like a drop. At first, I overreacted anticipating mass units in my base. Now that I've come to see it as normal, I've been slow to react to a real Zerg drop.
As T, I'm thinking that the key is scouting an increase in OL speed by using viking harass. I always have one viking going after OLs so I am starting to pay closer attention to OL speed.
Imo, even a sim-citited T base does not auto-shut down this strategy. Given that I usually have a Thor-heavy army against Z, and given that I'm usually parked outside my natural in anticipation of roach pressure, I am SLOOOOW to get my army back into the base.
Conclusion: I'd say this is a viable strat/tactic/build (against me and maybe other middling diamond-players) if it meets a few conditions: 1. your Terran opponent has a relatively immobile army; 2. you drop soon after OL speed completes; 3. you take the Xel-Naga towers a minute or so before you drop; 4. you take some care not to clump your OLs too much.
If I catch the overlords in the middle of the map, the drop fails.
And make it a big drop.
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I am wondering if this strategy is viable all the way up to higher levels because atm I'm about 1000 diamond but I am beating 1500 diamonds with it.
I donno ... I hate to discourage you but ... i don t thing u beat 1500+ with it. I watched your replays - and i don t think u have a chrance on higher play. And i don t think it s viable strategy. Not now at least ... or not in this form ...building straight to hidras drop ... [b]BECAUSE :
First : As a terran - all i need to do ... is WONDER ... why the heck isn t he expoing ... and defending ... hmm - why shouldn i scan ?! (In every game u normally SCAN !!! At the 3rd or the 4th mule u sacrifice - to see what zerg is up to - lair + mutas / roaches / delayed baneling bust , etc.
Second : Let s presume it really works ... after the fist TIME - u do it to a player ... he now KNOWS - and it s an alternative to expect. In the second game - if u play with the same person - it s not viable anymore. It s like the 5 rax rhine push ... i used it for fun - to get fast 200 ladder poins last month.
Third : almost always - a decend player will have ARMY ... the equal size of yours. ... and building an expo. And - back to first - almost always a decent player will scout - and wonder and prepare - and have at least an equal size in army numbers.
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Tomtaietot: First : As a terran - all i need to do ... is WONDER ... why the heck isn t he expoing ... and defending ... hmm - why shouldn i scan ?! (In every game u normally SCAN !!! At the 3rd or the 4th mule u sacrifice - to see what zerg is up to - lair + mutas / roaches / delayed baneling bust , etc.
So what about if I hide my second hatchery to make the terran think I have one base so he dedicates himself to a build order untill he finds out later that I'm going to drop him?
Tomtaietot: Second : Let s presume it really works ... after the fist TIME - u do it to a player ... he now KNOWS - and it s an alternative to expect. In the second game - if u play with the same person - it s not viable anymore. It s like the 5 rax rhine push ... i used it for fun - to get fast 200 ladder poins last month.
This is true when i'm playing a series of games in custom against the same oppponent but in ranked games I have never met the same player twice and this is not a popular strategy.
Tomtaietot: Third : almost always - a decend player will have ARMY ... the equal size of yours. ... and building an expo. And - back to first - almost always a decent player will scout - and wonder and prepare - and have at least an equal size in army numbers.
You sir are 100% correct, in some of the games I play using this strategy I trade armies with my opponent. But is this really such a bad thing considering that zerg can produce more units faster than terran and protoss (especially terran). I just do another drop with the units I have produced from my 2 hatcheries.
Now to be honest I have been beaten a couple of times by superior players while I use this strategy and overall it goes exactly as you say. They beat the first drop and managed to get an expansion up and beat me at the macro game. But im wondering if this is because my strategy is inferior or that my opponents are overall better players (or both).
I can post some of the replays I lost so people can analyze them if someone is interested. Only when i'm completely convinced this trategy wont work at higher levels i'll abandon it and start playing normal again 
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AS a terran player when i see 1 base lair i will expect mutas, so i will do double factory, hellions and thors, which are pretty fine vs hydras. No prob there.
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On October 19 2010 02:19 serverdown wrote:You can fail using a nydus if your opponent kills it, you can't fail in dropping someones base.
Unless your shot down.......
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On October 19 2010 09:33 Hider wrote:
AS a terran player when i see 1 base lair i will expect mutas, so i will do double factory, hellions and thors, which are pretty fine vs hydras. No prob there.
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On April 25 2011 02:43 whoBmyrice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2010 09:33 Hider wrote:
AS a terran player when i see 1 base lair i will expect mutas, so i will do double factory, hellions and thors, which are pretty fine vs hydras. No prob there.
This is the most pointless post I've ever seen -_-' Don't necro 6 month old threads with a random quote.
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EPT
