[H] Pick apart my bronze play! - Page 2

On October 18 2010 20:11 ddrddrddrddr wrote:
First of all, don't say gg before your opponent when you win the game.

On October 19 2010 04:41 Effect010 wrote:

so true...its incredibly unfriendly and makes me angry every time...

On October 19 2010 05:41 Rowen wrote:

I'm sorry! I didn't know! I stopped, if it's any consolation! Shows what I get for trying to congratulate a player on a good game -- too many players just surrender out of a game instantly.

How do people manage their macro during micro-intensive sessions? For example (no replay as I'm not on my home computer), I played ZvP on Desert Oasis and end up storming their expo with roaches and lings against their stalker-heavy force. I need to micro to win, so after 30 seconds or so of heavy micro (with JUST enough time to throw in an inject as I queued up moves for my roaches to run circles around the expo's Nexus while the speedlings picked off the 3 remaining zealots), I look up to see over 1,000 minerals just laying around. I quickly queue up more lings and pop out a hatchery, but I'm still at over 500/500 of money just SITTING there.

Is it in my best interest to micro less and let units die in order to make sure their replacements are getting out in a timely fashion? How should I gauge when the units that are alive are more important than the units I need to build? A similar thing happened to me in a ZvZ on Blistering Sands where I end up pushing through their destructible rocks to avoid the (metric shit-) ton of spines at their ramp, and have to corner up my roaches to keep from being surrounded by their slowlings. By the time I'm done micro'ing around and have won the fight, my mineral count is 800+. Is this just a matter of increasing APM and wisdom to know what's likely to happen next, so I can ignore some micro?

On October 19 2010 01:06 TERATON wrote:


I just dont get it why he got warned for this... Its true tbh. Just like day9 said... build pylons and probes/ scv's and sup depots/ drones and overlords + keep your money low. Warn day9?

On October 19 2010 05:41 Rowen wrote:
How do people manage their macro during micro-intensive sessions? For example (no replay as I'm not on my home computer), I played ZvP on Desert Oasis and end up storming their expo with roaches and lings against their stalker-heavy force. I need to micro to win, so after 30 seconds or so of heavy micro (with JUST enough time to throw in an inject as I queued up moves for my roaches to run circles around the expo's Nexus while the speedlings picked off the 3 remaining zealots), I look up to see over 1,000 minerals just laying around. I quickly queue up more lings and pop out a hatchery, but I'm still at over 500/500 of money just SITTING there.

Is it in my best interest to micro less and let units die in order to make sure their replacements are getting out in a timely fashion? How should I gauge when the units that are alive are more important than the units I need to build? A similar thing happened to me in a ZvZ on Blistering Sands where I end up pushing through their destructible rocks to avoid the (metric shit-) ton of spines at their ramp, and have to corner up my roaches to keep from being surrounded by their slowlings. By the time I'm done micro'ing around and have won the fight, my mineral count is 800+. Is this just a matter of increasing APM and wisdom to know what's likely to happen next, so I can ignore some micro?

On October 19 2010 08:50 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
in the OP you wrote ZvP as PvP

On October 19 2010 09:59 ScholarZero wrote:
Drone Timing/Production, courtesy of Day9

Game 1, ZvZ Jungle Basin - Feel free to keep the speedlings out of your base checking stuff out. If shit starts going down, just bring them back to your base. I think one of the biggest hurdles of bronze/silver level play is just being too passive. You don't want to lose your base, but neither does the other guy. You're so busy turtling up that you miss the opportunity to just completely kill him. Especially with an army of speedlings and three spines at your base, your army can be outside of your base, it's safe enough. I mean, you might not be familiar with that map, but you had vision on the entire map just because you had the OL at the bottom of the ramp and one at his natural.

Try to keep the units out in the field. Keep your eye on the minimap and let THAT tell you when you need to get back to your base.

Game 2, ZvP Shakuras Plateau - Your opponent will never spawn in the near position on this map (unless this has changed, let me know). Try to move your drone to build the spawning pool before you can afford it - like, get a drone on the way to build it at around 185 minerals, then BLAMMO Spawning Pool. There is rarely a reason to gas steal, especially in Bronze. After that, you just won because you had more units.

It's funny how much different your two builds are, just because of that little bit of early pressure you took in Game 1. You want to hold the pressure then get right back to your build. Look at it this way, if you hold off the rush and get back to your build, you HAVE to be in a stronger position because in order for him to rush he had to cut harvesters, but you're right back where you belong.

On October 19 2010 10:01 Rowen wrote:

Fixed, thanks!



Keeping lings out and doing things (short of taking the Watchtowers) requires more micro, which is more APM-intensive than I feel I'm able to do at the moment. Keeping them in my base when I know I can see every move they make seems to make more sense to me since I can focus on macro instead of "where are my lings NOW?" I'll give it a shot though -- more micro+macro = more practice doing both at the same time, in a situation where if I misclick or fail to notice something it's likely not to get my early pressure wiped out.

I'm more gas stealing to be a pain in the ass than any REAL threat. It gets in the opponent's head and I like the mental aspect of it. I've noticed a lot less early pressure since I started gas stealing, leading to the thought that (at least in Bronze), if I'm able to pull off a gas steal and cancel/rebuild two or three times, it makes the other player feel like I'm on a higher level and less likely to push out, leaving me to do the aggression and expansion.

A new replay is posted. I had the feeling about halfway through (once I denied their expo at their natural) that the game was over and I could have just rushed and won, but wanted to play it safe and mass a bit more. It might have blown up in my face with that Thor push at the end, but I figured with one base mined out and another one close, they wouldn't be able to counter what I was doing with my three, then four bases. I ended up pushing to Ultra by the end in the thought of busting through their front wall, but no need.

New thought -- Nydus drops. Good/bad/ugly? How many Nydus Networks do you make to ensure its success? They take so long to morph in, I'm always afraid of losing the building before it can finish. Perhaps two or three worms at once will help?

Banelings + Nydus @ mineral line = lolwin? Or does anyone ovvie drop blings? Seems to me three or four blings could WRECK harvesters.

On October 19 2010 03:43 TheMilkMan wrote:


Because good habits start off early, and hes coming to a place that will teach him good habits at the begining instead of having to relearn everything at the end.

@Rowen,
First, what is your plan when you go into the game? Do you have a plan? I am not saying that you have to stick to said plan, but the fact that you have one. What I do, and I am a Diamond Terran, if you ever want some 1v1s let me know, I have a plan when I go in. For example, I see Zerg, I think in my mind, I am 3 raxing, building an engineering bay, getting stim, +1 weapons and slamming his expansion asap. Zerg will ALWAYS win the macro game. I scout with my scv and do my best to slow HIS expansion down. I can win 90% of the time on a 1 base game. So, develop a plan, but ALWAYS have contingencies.

On the second game, you dropped a pool on 13, and a gas on 12. Did you have a purpose? Speedlings? Were you going to lair? What is your reasoning behind doing that. What was your overall plan/
At 3:38 you drop the spine crawler, you did this because you feared early harass from lings from the other player. Why not just make lings and a queen? Mind you, Im not saying it was a bad choice, just what prompted that thought process. You are asking for strategy comments, Ill do my best

At 4:23 you beat off his first rush. You have him beat in scv count, you know this because you know that zerg can not build 2 units at once, that early of a rush means he sacrificed scv count, so expand. You will have him beat. Make some lings to defend. Zerg are a macro race, you already know this, you need monies to macro.

Get better placement on your crawlers.

At 730 your macro drops. Focus on Macro, get better at it. You have WAY to much monies. Way to much.

If you notice, high level and programer zerg players, spread creep like a boss. You need the WHOLE map to be creeped up. I think spending the 150 for an additional queen to do this is worth it. SPREAD CREEP. GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD NOW. S P R E A D C R E E P. You didnt start spreading until almost 9 minutes.
You have map control, move your crawlers up to your front door so they can support your units.

YOU STILL HAVE TO MUCH MONEY! Build another hatchery in your base do something with it. The fellows that commented above have a point, you need to learn how to spend your money.

You have to few drones, honestly. I know I am saying you have to much money as well, but you need to have about 25-30 drones at each base.

You saw that he was going lings and roaches, why didnt you go mutas? Then you could harass and attack. Again, not saying wrong decision, but asking what your thoughts were.

At 14 minutes you beat his army and had a standing army, you should have expanded.

YOU HAVE TO MUCH MONEY.

Good micro at 1530

at 18 I recomend attacking with your standing army, and using your mutas to kill his mineral line.

YOU HAVE TO MUCH MONEY.

Yea bad form to gg before opponet. :/

Your doing good for a bronze player, polish up a bit and I expect to see ya in Diamond.

On October 19 2010 10:35 zbedlam wrote:
In regards to the game itself, you are better than any bronze player I have seen, your macro was far from perfect but it was better than most gold/platinum players i have seen and you actually scout which is rare below gold, I expect you to rise fast once you get the mechanical power to play zerg.

On October 19 2010 15:10 Majblitz wrote:
I have to say that as a low level zerg player myself (Bronze), threads such as this really not only help me learn as well, but make me feel proud. I know it might be strange to say, but seeing all the help thrown Rowen's way just makes me feel better about being here at all. I want to thank everyone, including Rowen for asking for help.

Edit: Completely off-topic I know, but I felt the need to say it.

On October 19 2010 10:35 zbedlam wrote:


I tend to disagree with most of his general advice except the "YOU HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY" thing. Spreading creep for example is a wonderful thing, but by the looks of the game you didn't have the mechanical power to spend your money efficiently, creep is not important at all compared to efficient droning/spending of money, ignore the fact that high level players do it for now.

As for the "go into the game with a plan" and the quoted example he gave is completely useless to a zerg player. Do not ever go into a game saying "i'm going roach/ling this game and am going to harass early" or whatever, zerg is a reactionary race and you must play it as such, your army composition will depend entirely on your opponents' army composition.

Also just to be picky, terran will not ALWAYS lose to zerg in a macro game unless either a) the terran has inferior macro or b) the terran does not force the zerg to build an army.

In regards to the game itself, you are better than any bronze player I have seen, your macro was far from perfect but it was better than most gold/platinum players i have seen and you actually scout which is rare below gold, I expect you to rise fast once you get the mechanical power to play zerg.

Keep playing games, learn when you can and cannot build drones, build your muscle memory and i expect you to rise quickly.

edit: do TRY to spread creep by all means but do not make it a priority over general resources management.

Also the fact that spreading creep NOW will help him develop good habit later? /shrug

Mass mutas works great up until platinum league when people will start going thors, so keep that in mind as you enjoy muta harass for a while yet.