EPTSo the topic is basically what you guys think is a better strat against Zergs. Bio or Mech ?
[Q] TvZ : Terran Bio or Mech?
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CounteR
New Zealand103 Posts
So the topic is basically what you guys think is a better strat against Zergs. Bio or Mech ? | ||
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RadicalEdwrd
United States53 Posts
The answer is basically either or. Play what you're comfortable with. If you prefer bio, open with a bio focused build. If you prefer mech, open with a mech focused build. Both methods offer you a versatile core army that can be augmented later on down the road to deal with difficult tech threats. The key to coming out on top of your opponent is not choosing between bio or mech, it's solid scouting combined with good decision making. Become familiar with what works well against what in certain situations and apply your knowledge on the fly when you take a sneak peak in your opponents base and see what he's up to. For example, if you scout an enemy Zerg and he's going with one base play with an early gas extractor, you can be sure he's going to try and Baneling bust. From here you should do two things: 1) Baneling Bust proof your front door. 2) Keep scouting to look for a sudden expansion. He might be going for Ling/Muta instead of a Baneling Bust. Against either of these builds, Mech OR Bio is acceptable. Marauders have enough HP to absorb heavy Baneling impact to protect damage-dishing Marines behind them (if you position yourself correctly). Mech is just all around tanky and Banelings are entirely ineffective. Both Bio and Mech offer anti-air opportunities to combat Mutalisks (Marines and Thors). Of course, Mech is a more effective counter to Baneling focused attacks, but it leaves you lacking anti-air in case you get caught up in a sloppy transition and his Mutas attack early on. After you prep and scout it's just a matter of deciding when your opponent is at his weakest and it is advantageous for you to make a push. | ||
EnderCN
United States499 Posts
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
My usual ZvT composition is ling/baneling/infestor/muta into ultras late-game. Infestor/ling/baneling absolutely destroys pure bio, unless you can successfully keep your marines alive, which is difficult. Medivacs do little to aid this, as baneling damage is instant. Conversely, if you go mech, mutas destroy you. If your anti-air consists of only thors, they can be magic boxed (link at the bottom) leaving your tanks and hellions to be demolished by the roaches. the magic box: The key is a hybrid mix. If you're going mech, you'll need to add in some marines to prevent being wpied by mutas. If you're going bio, it wouldn't hurt to add in a tank to help get rid of banelings. Bio play can work on it's own, but you need to be aggressive all game and expand pretty rediculously for a terran. Pure bio: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4049854/ | ||
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Dice17
United States520 Posts
Koreans use bio and before magic box micro a lot of people thought that they didnt know what they were talking about. But the way I view it is Bio is alot more powerful for sure but you must also consider biomech. Biomech by far has the highest dps in the game probably. SO if you want experiment around with different combos like that. But otherwise get Bio and practice micro vs banes. and lastly if you go bio WATCH OUT FOR INFESTORS | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
Most TvZ opens up with a harass vs reapers/hellion/fast banshee/viking ov hunt or even two of the above. Make good use of bunkers. Vs Baneling, make sure all your marines have their own control group, stim and run as soon as you see them rolling in and be weary of a flank. Let your marauders take the baneling hits. One of the greatest strengths of terran is your versatility via addon swap. Make good use of that. if you think you are slightly ahead, a marauder building snipe is very annoying :p. Watch the replay for the stralife drop for even better anti-baneling management. | ||
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CounteR
New Zealand103 Posts
@RadicalEdward : I can see your point but I think I already have the knowledge of scouting baneling busts , 1 base muta , fast roaches etc etc. But the problem I have is Zerg beating me with pretty much every units in the book Speedlings , Mutas , Roaches , Banelings , lategame Infestors , Ultras I have wrote this post because I wanted some ideas from others what they do when they are Terran which makes Terran being OP against Zergs because right now it seems to me that I lose TvZ's even when I have the advantage for e.g More expos or Larger army. Oh and also I have seen the Korean matches like a bit of GSL , and pro players like oGs they always go for a reaper harras transitsion in to bio but in the Euro , American scene i have seen Terran going for an early hellion harrass transitsion in to mech but sometimes even with a succesful harras I seem to lose the game because the Zerg just runs over me in the big fight. Well I guess I will only have to blame my bad micro ^^ | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
Separate your marines into different groups so that the blings splash damage is reduced, while using your tanks (sieged of course) to kill/tank damage from the blings. MAKE SURE UR RINES R NOT CLUMPED TOGETHER AND BE CAREFUL OF THE BANELINGS. | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
On September 10 2010 07:36 CounteR wrote: Hi , I'm a diamond Terran player having difficulties dealing with Zergs. I hear a lot of Zergs saying Terran is OP against Zergs but I still find it hard against them. I have tried 5 rax reaper harras then to MMM , or a fast push with thor , hellions , marines. I normally lose even after I have more expo than Zergs because Zerg pushes out with banelings , speedlings , muta , roaches, (sometimes ultras in long game) and seem to come out on top every fight. So the topic is basically what you guys think is a better strat against Zergs. Bio or Mech ? You can't really go pure mech anymore. Hellions/tanks/thors lose to mass mutalisks. You'll get magicboxed with your thors and without marines, you'll lose your tanks after the thors die. Plus, you won't have any map control and the Zerg can take the whole map and macro in peace. As a Zerg, I plan on going mutalisks against every Terran I come up against, right out of the gate. The only way I'll switch to something different than that is if I see mass thor or mass bio. If it's mass bio, I'll still get mutalisks eventually, but I'll need banelings and a solid mixture of speedlings and roaches because the push will arrive too soon. Mass bio + a couple tanks is also begging for infestors. Against thors, I've been having a harder time. I'm thinking the solution to marine/thor/hellion pushes is roach/hydra. Besides mass thor, the only trouble I've had is against Terrans who abuse the mobility of dropships with a bio army. Don't skimp on marauders either, even if you don't see roaches -- they're the best defense against banelings besides tanks. EDIT: Also, stimming and kiting is important when using bio, even against Zerg (especially against Zerg?). You outrange everything but hydralisks with marines. If you can manage to RUN from banelings, stopping to shoot only if you have tons of room, they won't obliterate your army in half a second. If you run past the tanks and the Zerg isn't micro'ing well, he might have a-moved into your army and they'll detonate on the wrong target. | ||
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
I have wrote this post because I wanted some ideas from others what they do when they are Terran which makes Terran being OP against Zergs because right now it seems to me that I lose TvZ's even when I have the advantage for e.g More expos or Larger army. What makes Terran "OP" against Zerg (I don't think they are anymore after the magic box) is the variety of openings they can employ that aren't completely given away by the tech structures they've built. Also, you can switch between add-ons fast -- it requires a lot of scouting by the Zerg, which is hard to do if the Terran is teching hard and there's a wall-off. Tech-lab on a rax? Is that reapers? Or is he going for marauders? Or does he just want stim and/or shields for his marines? Reactor on a starport? Is that for a drop? Or is he building vikings to harass my overlords? Or is he just getting medivacs to support his MM? If I see a factory, does that mean Thors? Tanks? Or is he just getting some hellions while going for a starport? All it takes is a swap with the barracks and starport and now I've got to worry about cloaked banshees. Provided I've scouted the switch in time. Compare that with Zerg: early gas, early lair tech, possibly no expansion yet? Yeah, he's going mutas. It's not imbalanced, but Zerg really depends on scouting more than the other races do, because I not only need to know what to build to stop your push, I also need to know when it's coming (otherwise I won't have enough drones because I'm making too much army). | ||
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
One of the greatest strengths of terran is your versatility via addon swap. Make good use of that. if you think you are slightly ahead, a marauder building snipe is very annoying I'm still confused why anyone says this is a strength. The tech lab is like a cybernetics core only you have to build it on every single building you want advanced tech on. Gateway + CC = Barracks + TL Robo facility = Factory + TL Robo facility + robo bay = Factory + Armory + TL Starport = Stargate + TL Starport + Fleet Beacon = Stargate + Fusion Core + TL The tech lab is not an advantage, it is a limitation. It gives you a tiny advantage in getting out factory units a tiny bit faster than Protoss but the rest of the game it is just a disadvantage. | ||
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Stoli
Canada173 Posts
mass marine owns tho. :E i really only beat it when i out micro them badly (not that hard with muta bling speedling, z is a much faster paced race and you can usually surprise the T) or use speedblings | ||
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Kryptix
United States138 Posts
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tackklee
United States270 Posts
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Pigzyf5
Australia131 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
Now with magic box the only hard counter we have to mutas is marines who are hard counter by blings. It is extremely difficult to keep your rines alive. With this said the obvious anwser is to always apply early pressure. Thats why we see the 5 rax reap build. However Z's are getting very good at dealing with this harass by adding an extra queen to get a fast creep spread on the base. This match up has become balanced and now T is going to lose their early game reaps and our late game tanks. God help us. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
That said, I usually have good success with a 2 rax factor marauder hellion push, into Bio/Thor builds to deal with the mutas. This doesnt work a whole lot if the zerg player knows how to control his mutas (either magic box, or just harass your base when you move out). But in that build i build about 20 marines put them in the center of about 30ish marauders, and move thors to deal with mutas if they arent boxing. On occasion I will still get rolled by 50 ish banelings. But Infestors are a hard counter to it, so be careful. All that said, I find a competant zerg player will contain me until they are like 2 bases up and then just overwhelm me. | ||
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