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Ok, this is how it is and unfortunately it won't change. All Terrans turtle with siege tanks and makes it impossible to stop them from macroing like crazy. In a game where I was Protoss, a Terran just turtle all game long on Lost Temple. He also expanded once to his natural. But I couldn't do anything! If I ever got close he just one shotted my units with siege tanks. What a fluke!
Now you might think, "omg XiGua, wht a nub u r don't even expand urself and then omfgwtfbbq him with 200/200 supply -.-"
Well I tried to expand, but he denied all my expos with REAPERS and BANSHEES. So all I did was mass collosi and stalkers and immortals and high templars and dark templars and sentries and EVERYTHING. But I just couldn't get into his base...
Also, drops where impossible to do since he had missile turrets everywhere in his base.
Question! How to counter this? How do I stop these kind of players? Early aggression was impossible since he was also doing that with hellions, reapers and banshees.
Anyone else encountered a common scenario? What did you do and if you won, replay plz!
XiGua
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Exoand the fuck out of him and sen a group of stalkers and an observer with your probe and reapers and banshees will be useless.
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Uhm, can we have a replay to see?
And if they Terran is turtling, and spending enough on things like banshee's and reapers to take out entire expansions on LT (ramp + choke) they're investing quite heavily into their harassment as well. Offhand, I would say that your army positioning needs to be better. On LT, your gold expo is pretty darn well easy to defend. Its hard for reapers to harass, and while I can see why banshee's are an issue, just leave some stalkers with detection back there. If he's getting enough banshee's to shut down your stalkers, while making tanks and surrounding his base with turrets, you're doing something wrong, or he's investing very heavily in air, in which case you should think about getting some pheonix.
Basically, better army placement, but put up a rep for us.
edit:
hey, just read your post again.... there's no need to crack a turtling terran, unless its a aggressive pushing forward style. as far as I can see, mass stalker is going to counter everything he has, and get some higher level tech for when he pushes out, and you're okay.
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1) Go Air. Phoenix harass him so banshees wont leave his base. Follow it up with mass VRs or Carriers (depends on how long you have to masss).
2) have pylons everywhere. If you have vision of the whole map theres no way reapers can do any significant damage. Get a bunch of blink stalkers to bounce around if he tries to attack anything. (and expand everywhere)
3) Wait til you have a ridiculous air force
4) A Move
5) ???
6) Profit.
Basically you do not break turtling terrans by trying to use a ground based army (assuming the terran has no intention of moving out) unless you have just sooooooo much resources that you can just throw money at him.
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sounds like void rays would have won outright
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I don't play protoss, but I would say that you should just place cannons around your expansions. Using about 600 to defend each expansion would be worth it as he would have pretty much wasted his harassment utilities. However if you are getting expansions you MUST make a lot of probes. The expansions are useless if they are not fully saturated. If you have 4 expos it is better then his 2 expos and you can pretty much make whatever you want. From there on just get a 200/200 army and starve him. If you see your money is piling up, get more production building(robos if he is heavy on siege tanks) so you can instantly regain your army.
But the key points here are to just expand a lot and cannon up with stalker support if he has a lot of banshees, phoenixes would help this as well. Eventually he will want to move out and you will know this because you keep an observer right outside his turret range. When he moves out just spill your entire army on him and instantly create another one and roll over him.
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why dont ppl realize mech is garbage TvP
the only reason it worked in BW is because protoss didnt have any effective air to ground units.
make void rays and phoenixes to lift his shit and blow it up
srsly, like 5 stargate void ray
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On September 07 2010 00:51 mOnion wrote:
why dont ppl realize mech is garbage TvP
the only reason it worked in BW is because protoss didnt have any effective air to ground units.
make void rays and phoenixes to lift his shit and blow it up
srsly, like 5 stargate void ray
If there were golis in SC2 it would work here aswell.
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On September 07 2010 00:53 gillon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 00:51 mOnion wrote:
why dont ppl realize mech is garbage TvP
the only reason it worked in BW is because protoss didnt have any effective air to ground units.
make void rays and phoenixes to lift his shit and blow it up
srsly, like 5 stargate void ray If there were golis in SC2 it would work here aswell.
Vikings are a good supplement, Cheap very cost effective and absurd range for excellent air control. The main reason why mech isnt heavily used is because Mech is not a 1 base strat and most people are still on a 1 base frame of mind, at most 2. You need a minimum of 2 bases to make mech even viable. Also because marauders can do almost everything a tank can do and can be everywhere.
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If you're containing him, just chilling outside his base, and he makes reapers and banshees then you know your army is bigger than his is. Mass up and steamroll. Immortals were literally made for this situation.
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Immortals ain't bad either, although 3-3 speed upgraded void rays still killl everything uncharged rofl.
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So Mass void rays ftw in all of the games where he turtles?
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Siege tanks, reapers and banshees are all anti-ground. If you built up and got a couple void rays or carriers you could take those out without worry. If he put turrets up around his base, the carriers have a long enough range to take them out without taking any damage themselves. Also, a couple dark templar could prevent him from expanding anymore and you could resource lock him eventually.
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If he was turtling that badly you maybe could have left a few stalkers at an expo and guard it until it was fully running and just put like 2 cannons to stop further harass. By taking the map you could basically trade armies and macro up instantly and attack again with like 20 warp gates if you had like 5 expos. But like people above me said Immortals ftw?
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As a toss player when i encounter a particularly bad turtle i like to get a few void rays to knock a few turrets out then pull a few drops and warp in as many guys as possible this is great to do with a mothership if you can get one, try to target the eng bay and keep your voids on the turrets and then warp in DTs, pull your army back and let him die by invisible fury. or just us immortal drops and keep going back for more.
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I think we need a replay. Beating people who turtle should be easy so long as you out-expand them.
If they flat out denied all of your attempts at expanding with reapers and banshees then either you weren't trying that hard to expand or he wasn't really turtling. Keep an eye on his natural choke and go and expand, hell, bring your whole army to defend (stalkers should be pretty good against both reapers and banshees) so long as his army is in his base.
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I wouldn't advise trying to break the siege until he's running out of resources at his natural. Just keep an eye on him, invest in a mobile army to deal with harass (blink Stalkers) and consider making extra Observers to keep watch over multiple areas. Once you have a ton of bases, a ton of Warp Gates, and high upgrades, you can move in. Also remember that blink Stalkers can get up ledges, evading Tanked chokes. You can make some cannons if you like, but you probably want to wait on making too many of those until you have 3-4 bases to defend.
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Simply put, i think you have been outplayed by your opponent. Against a turtling terran, the best way is obviously to mass expand. So how do you defend your expansions ? Spread out your units and place them in your expos, build pylons around so you can reinforce, 1 or 2 cannons per expo. In the map of LOST temple, control of the 2 xel naga watch towers are very important, so you will know when to regroup ur whole army to prepare for a massive attack when the terran decides to move out. U can drop HT on the cliffs and storm his expo, or get blink stalkers for harrassment, you may also send DTs around to harrass and check out his base at the same time. If it is totally impossible to check out what he is building, send hallucinated phoenixes and fly them over his base to get information on what units he is getting.
This may seem like a lot to do, but its the best way to fight a turtling terran, If you manage to keep your expansion and denying him from expanding, you will win eventually unless you make critical mistakes.
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All Terrans turtle with siege tanks
no they dont.
He also expanded once to his natural. But I couldn't do anything!
1 expansion is macro like crazy? if he is turtling on 2 bases you can easly put 3 or 4 bases
he denied all my expos with REAPERS and BANSHEES
Also, drops where impossible to do since he had missile turrets everywhere in his base.
So he has turrets "everywhere in his base" and you cant put 2 canons on your expos?
So like i said you are either expanding or turtling, if the oponent is turtling you get more mobility thus expanding easier.
You should be able to defend against a small force atacking your expos if like you said his main forces are at his gates.
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Build stalkers.
If he has lots of harassing units he doesn't have many siege tanks. Blink up the ledge and take out his tanks, then kill his workers. If he brings his harass units to the battle it won't matter because stalkers are very good versus both reapers and banshees.
If instead he goes for lots of tanks and just a bit of harass your stalkers can easily defend your expo. Once you have two bases you have enough resources for 6ish warpgates + tech + another expand.
If he is just building a lot of banshees/reapers like others have said those units can't attack air...
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Use observers to keep tabs on the borders of your expos and build a few phoenixes. Take out all the banshees and reapers and just starve him. Then just overpower him with void rays. Sounds like all those nice turrets are a place to charge before destroying him.
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I didn't read everything but, maybe using hallucination would work ? Sacrifice something like 10 colossus/immortal/whatever into tank and try to kill him 
I never tried it but "maybe" it could works.
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Now you might think, "omg XiGua, wht a nub u r don't even expand urself and then omfgwtfbbq him with 200/200 supply -.-"
Well I tried to expand, but he denied all my expos with REAPERS and BANSHEES. So all I did was mass collosi and stalkers and immortals and high templars and dark templars and sentries and EVERYTHING. But I just couldn't get into his base...
So basically you agree with people who say you're a noob then lol? A Terran on two base making tanks/reapers/banshees is going to be super gas starved and probably not able to produce constantly unless he's doing it out of one production facility for each, just out expand him and defend your expos(properly). You should win, the strategy you're describing isn't good.
ALSO POST A REPLAY!!!111!!!!!!!2112!! It makes it much easier to identify the problems you might be having.
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If a guy wants to turtle all game, you may's well let him. Don't go throwing your army into the grinder until he's mined out and you're at 200/200 and have every expo on the map covered with a pylon so he can't expand.
Scout with hallucinations. sounds like nothing else would make it through the turret farm.
Make sure that your production capacity is high, as if you lose your army trying to break the turtle you'll want to rebuild it quickly.
And really i don't see how you weren't able to keep an expo up against reapers and banshees. If it had been viking banshee i could maybe understand.
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Pretty much what everyone said, out expand him and actually defend the expansion , put some pylons near it so you can actually reinforce em. Other things like controlling the watch towers ( which im guessing you did not do since reapers were running amok) Maybe set 1 or 2 observers set as peripherals around his base . Honestly I don't see what stopped you from just getting 2+ expansions on the terran, actually defend them, and mass Carrier/VR or both.
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On September 07 2010 00:51 mOnion wrote:
why dont ppl realize mech is garbage TvP
the only reason it worked in BW is because protoss didnt have any effective air to ground units.
make void rays and phoenixes to lift his shit and blow it up
srsly, like 5 stargate void ray
you're completely right.. carriers were awful vs ground in BW
OH WAIT
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On September 07 2010 00:36 XiGua wrote:
Early aggression was impossible since he was also doing that with hellions, reapers and banshees.
Sounds like you got outplayed. I aint got no time or candy for you then, my friend. Shoulda got carriers/mothership/phoenixes. Lift the tanks.
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EPT
