| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
john0507
164 Posts
Defending the Reapers on one base isn't that hard , nor do u even want to do one base vT game anyways. So I honestly dont see whats the point of the build , forcing a one base ZvT game puts Z in a disadvantage , why would u make a build revolving around that? As a Zerg , you need to expand , so the search of a way to deal with Reapers while expanding relatively early continues ... | ||
|
ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
mutas will give us map control and Terran won't have that much time to full up his base with turrets. ofc he can start pumping marines when he sees the lair, but will give you time to expand. if you see him going for marines, move all workers from gas to mineral, or even only 3 workers and you won't be behind. spread the creep so you can move your spine to your exp or ramp. I think you can even make a baneling bust from there. can't skip queen, she gives us a ranged attack to defend our base and is needed to spread creep. anyway, those are only some random thoughts, I can only see if it works like that if I test it in game. | ||
|
Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
the fact is that we all make mistakes. a LOT of mistakes. these are easy to see when watching a replay, difficult to avoid when playing. are any of these guys MorroW? No. Are any of us ever going to actually play MorroW? Probably not. This is typical diamond level stuff, this build helps most people throughout all the divisions. Besides, if the terran skill increases dramatically for your claims, then you have to dramatically increase the skill of this guy as well when you make your comparisons. | ||
|
aznhockeyboy16
United States558 Posts
On August 25 2010 03:07 sikyon wrote: ROFLOL In all seriousness you should assume the spire as soon as the lair pops. What else can threaten you? Hydras-roach you probably don't have enough larvae off 1 base and a few tanks will let you expo comfortably and wreck them anyways. Infestors? Sure, beats reapers (eventually, since you can't FG immediatly and they take so long to build) but can't challenge the expo. If you 1 base against reapers the terran player should have his expo up and some turrents down by the time your mutas finish. At least in my experience. And from that point, he can marine spam and just counter whatever you build with his factories. I... I don't know what kind of reaper build you're going up against that gets a factory and tanks... reapers happen to take a lot of gas to build... hydra roach would stop all harass from reapers, and then you can expand, spread creep, get up a nydus network, expand again, because he can't be getting tanks and hellions because reapers delay terran tech so long, and if he managed to get 2 factories up during reaper harass something went terribly wrong on your part. realistically though, lair choices are roach speed, which allows him to be aggressive and push, and if he doesn't have marauders or bunkers you can roll him, roach burrow, which means you can completely shut down his economy, unless he put turrets up, and has marauder support, or mutalisks, which give you complete map control until he gets turrets up covering all of his tech, and gets enough marines to combat them, allowing you time to get up an expo or two before he moves out. will this stop morrow from rolling you? I kind of doubt it. will this stop some player with roughly your level of skill from rolling you? probably. are you a pro looking at random gold level replays for an answer to all of your zvt problems? probably not. | ||
|
ghettohobbit2
United States93 Posts
Open bittorrent, turn on everything at high priority, and suddenly reapers are being micro'd on a 2 second delay! | ||
|
LittleBallOfHate
29 Posts
But what seems to have worked in the past vs me, is massing a good amount of speedlings/banelings before I hit a critical mass of reapers where I just go around the map taking what I please(However, I usually only play 2v2..) | ||
|
neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
| ||
|
5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
I think the problem now isn't really what to do against mass reapers, its more how to scout mass reapers early enough to be able to put up proper response. I mean sure your drone may find a fast tech lab on the rax, but the terran could just be going one or two reapers, you could never know. if that was the case an over-response would actually kill you since you would make too many roaches off one base. The Overlord can only gather so much information before it is chased off/ killed by the terran early on. My point is that, the problem with the early/ mid game vs T is not so much how to counter each strategy, but rather how do you scout a strategy that is coming correctly, since a blind over-reaction, if you guessed wrongly, would kill you. | ||
|
HardcoreBilly
United States222 Posts
| ||
|
Viruuus
Germany451 Posts
But as many ppl said, 1base play vs T isnt that hard, the problem is that 1 base play is not viable in general. Against asgard even a baneling bust wouldve worked easily, since he didnt scout you properly. Still, noone uses baneling busts anymore, since everyone knows how to beat them, same goes for every 1 base strategy - the answer is to use your scan once (or go scout with your reapers, but scan should be enough to see lair = mutas), and then counter you with either double wallin or just mass marine/thor/whatever against your mutas. | ||
|
RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
Even if the terran assumes spire and macros up with rines/turrets, you just keep going roaches into hydra while expanding yourself after the first 5-6 mutas, which are never a waste because of harass and map control. Since there are strats like speedroaches into expo on one base it's not guaranteed that he'll prepare for muta because of lair though, so if he keeps pushing reapers or transitions into marauders you pretty much have it won by hiding the spire. | ||
|
Disastorm
United States922 Posts
On August 24 2010 04:57 fdsdfg wrote: this strategy will not allow you to beat anyone your level, only players worse than you. That seems to be the general concept of any possible strategy in Zerg vs Terran in general. | ||
|
Mearis
Italy76 Posts
On August 26 2010 15:49 HardcoreBilly wrote: As much as I would like to say "Reapers are imbalanced, go watch Idra vs Morrow", Idra honestly didn't put up a good show on dealing w/ Reaper harass. He almost never made crawlers, which is pretty much the best counter against Reapers early game. Did you unironically suggest crawlers versus reapers? You know about their second attack right? Idra did very well most games versus reapers, although he let his macro slip a few times. I think what people underestimate is how well reapers scale with micro though - if a poor terran tries to pull off what Morrow did, he will fall behind on macro by a huge amount since he doesn't have the APM to pull off reaper harass while maintaining solid economy/teching. Of course, the same is true for the zerg - if you do not have very very solid micro, and you let your roaches/lings get kited off creep, you'll get destroyed. | ||
|
ruiyang
252 Posts
| ||
|
fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On August 26 2010 17:39 RubiksCube wrote: Actually I like this a lot, especially the proxy spire part. Even if the terran assumes spire and macros up with rines/turrets, you just keep going roaches into hydra while expanding yourself after the first 5-6 mutas, which are never a waste because of harass and map control. Since there are strats like speedroaches into expo on one base it's not guaranteed that he'll prepare for muta because of lair though, so if he keeps pushing reapers or transitions into marauders you pretty much have it won by hiding the spire. This is what bothers me the most about this build. HIDDEN (not proxy, why the hell should a zerg proxy?) spire vs a reaper build, that has map control. i can't watch the replays since i'm at work but i would never ever try to make a hidden spire against a reaper terran while i have only 3 roaches to defend. a good terran will have u contained in ur base and is probably trying to do some damage witch his reapers and u will never get the possibility to build a spire anywhere but in ur base where it is guarded by the 3 roaches + queen. this is the major flaw in this build. EVERY terran should know when a zerg goes mutas if he has reapers and the zerg does not have speedlings to keep the reapers from scouting. and as others have stated u don't want to stay on 1 base against terran. | ||
|
aznhockeyboy16
United States558 Posts
On August 26 2010 14:33 ghettohobbit2 wrote: Alternate Solution: Lag. Open bittorrent, turn on everything at high priority, and suddenly reapers are being micro'd on a 2 second delay! lol. that is the easiest solution by far. its kind of like going up against banelings when there's a lag spike. kiting, kiting, lag, everything is dead. QQ + Show Spoiler + On August 26 2010 15:39 5unrise wrote: Hi I think the problem now isn't really what to do against mass reapers, its more how to scout mass reapers early enough to be able to put up proper response. I mean sure your drone may find a fast tech lab on the rax, but the terran could just be going one or two reapers, you could never know. if that was the case an over-response would actually kill you since you would make too many roaches off one base. The Overlord can only gather so much information before it is chased off/ killed by the terran early on. My point is that, the problem with the early/ mid game vs T is not so much how to counter each strategy, but rather how do you scout a strategy that is coming correctly, since a blind over-reaction, if you guessed wrongly, would kill you. why would you need a lot of roaches? if you get 3, and an extra queen or two, with a few speedlings, you should be able to hold off anything on creep, and the extra queens would also stop a banshee transition, and if they're not harassing very hard, you will be able to get a spire up, and then they can't do a marauder push without saccing all of their units to maybe take out a hatch. and that should take you to the midgame. | ||
|
RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
On August 26 2010 19:23 fleeze wrote: This is what bothers me the most about this build. HIDDEN (not proxy, why the hell should a zerg proxy?) spire vs a reaper build, that has map control. i can't watch the replays since i'm at work but i would never ever try to make a hidden spire against a reaper terran while i have only 3 roaches to defend. a good terran will have u contained in ur base and is probably trying to do some damage witch his reapers and u will never get the possibility to build a spire anywhere but in ur base where it is guarded by the 3 roaches + queen. this is the major flaw in this build. EVERY terran should know when a zerg goes mutas if he has reapers and the zerg does not have speedlings to keep the reapers from scouting. and as others have stated u don't want to stay on 1 base against terran. The thing is, against mass reapers you can't really hide the spire in your base, you either build a spire that he sees with his reapers or "proxy" it. I'm thinking of proxy as in "not on your main creep", so either if your main is wide enough on some creep an overlord vomits out in your main or anywhere else on the map (preferably a spot he doesn't scout). I like that mainly because it gives you options. If he really prepares for mutas even though he has seen your whole base with his reapers and has probably scanned some time after you chased them away, you can just continue to do roaches and expand. If he's continuing with reapers or switching into marauder you can go mutas. Not saying this will instantly win you the game, but it'll put you into the position to expand relatively safe and harass yourself. | ||
|
imbored89
United States57 Posts
That said, maybe there is a reason that he doesn't have a replay of him vs higher level players massing reapers (maybe he lost, or maybe higher level players don't do it as often... who knows) | ||
|
nukestrike
Czech Republic19 Posts
| ||
|
fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On August 26 2010 19:38 RubiksCube wrote: The thing is, against mass reapers you can't really hide the spire in your base, you either build a spire that he sees with his reapers or "proxy" it. I'm thinking of proxy as in "not on your main creep", so either if your main is wide enough on some creep an overlord vomits out in your main or anywhere else on the map (preferably a spot he doesn't scout). I like that mainly because it gives you options. If he really prepares for mutas even though he has seen your whole base with his reapers and has probably scanned some time after you chased them away, you can just continue to do roaches and expand. If he's continuing with reapers or switching into marauder you can go mutas. Not saying this will instantly win you the game, but it'll put you into the position to expand relatively safe and harass yourself. ye i agree with u on the hidden spire part (proxy is still on the way to the enemys base imho), i do it too against non-reaper terrans. but a reaper terran has map control (unless u have speedlings) and i just can't understand how it is possible to get a drone out of ur base if u don't have anything to keep the reapers out of ur main but 3 roaches without speed. i'm assuming a good terran would abuse this fact and see every drone moving out of ur base because he has no reason to take the reaper out of ur main. | ||
| ||
|
|
WardiTV Weekly
Monday Night Weeklies
IntoTheTV X SOOP
PiGosaur Cup
The PondCast
Kung Fu Cup
IntoTheTV X SOOP
FEL
FEL
Sparkling Tuna Cup
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1603/reapercounter.png)
