|
On August 04 2010 03:08 chair wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 02:42 Anomandaris wrote:On August 04 2010 02:22 chair wrote:
I've favored stalkers in my zerg matchups and it's worked fairly well so far. Basically rush to a stalker and skip the zealots in favor of getting a large stalker count quickly with +1 shield and blink.
This will punish any roach play, work well against mutas, provides survivability vs speedlings, and sets you up nicely for HT vs hydras. Your biggest threat will be speedlings and that's what blink and +1 shield is for. I press out midgame, and exercise good use of "rolling" blinks (blinking front line to back line continuously instead of blinking the whole force at once) or terrain blinks (for instance, on LT blinking across the chasm to the gold expo if I'm overwhelmed).
Your midpush should coincide with expo setup, and don't overexert yourself. If you lose that stalker force it's gg, it's meant to keep pressure on while you setup 4gas + HT tech. It'll force your opponent to go Hydra/Speedling, which your HT will obliterate. The +1 shield helps HT high shields and even higher archon shields.
Have fun. Seems a good strat. Harrass with your 3gate blink stalkers while expanding, take the gas and get templar. Never tried it before, will try it. I understand why you take the +1 shield, because with blink stalkers you should only loose shields and no life, and it definately helps against zerglings. However I find the shield upgrade somewhat expensive... dunno what you think about it, but i think that +1/+1 for the same prize is superior. You get +1 attack as zealot because it means they kill 0/0 zerglings in 2 hits instead of 3. Stalkers take 4 hits to kill a ling with or without the +1 attack, so there's no point in +1 vs lings. Vs 0/0 roaches it takes 10 instead of 12 hits with +1 attack, but stalkers already beat roaches handily. The armor is a toss up, as it's 80/80 on health / shields with stalkers, but I'd rather soak up more dmg on the regenerating shields than the non-regenerating health. On top of that, the +1 shields helps HT more than +1/+1, and +1 shields helps the eventual archons infinitely more than +1 armor.
I like the Blink opener, too, but I don't bother with the Shield upgrade. 200 gas when you're one-basing is a LOT. I'd rather bring along a Sentry to block off reinforcements while you pummel the expansion.
|
On August 04 2010 03:13 Anomandaris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 03:08 chair wrote:On August 04 2010 02:42 Anomandaris wrote:On August 04 2010 02:22 chair wrote:
I've favored stalkers in my zerg matchups and it's worked fairly well so far. Basically rush to a stalker and skip the zealots in favor of getting a large stalker count quickly with +1 shield and blink.
This will punish any roach play, work well against mutas, provides survivability vs speedlings, and sets you up nicely for HT vs hydras. Your biggest threat will be speedlings and that's what blink and +1 shield is for. I press out midgame, and exercise good use of "rolling" blinks (blinking front line to back line continuously instead of blinking the whole force at once) or terrain blinks (for instance, on LT blinking across the chasm to the gold expo if I'm overwhelmed).
Your midpush should coincide with expo setup, and don't overexert yourself. If you lose that stalker force it's gg, it's meant to keep pressure on while you setup 4gas + HT tech. It'll force your opponent to go Hydra/Speedling, which your HT will obliterate. The +1 shield helps HT high shields and even higher archon shields.
Have fun. Seems a good strat. Harrass with your 3gate blink stalkers while expanding, take the gas and get templar. Never tried it before, will try it. I understand why you take the +1 shield, because with blink stalkers you should only loose shields and no life, and it definately helps against zerglings. However I find the shield upgrade somewhat expensive... dunno what you think about it, but i think that +1/+1 for the same prize is superior. You get +1 attack as zealot because it means they kill 0/0 zerglings in 2 hits instead of 3. Stalkers take 4 hits to kill a ling with or without the +1 attack, so there's no point in +1 vs lings. Vs 0/0 roaches it takes 10 instead of 12 hits with +1 attack, but stalkers already beat roaches handily. The armor is a toss up, as it's 80/80 on health / shields with stalkers, but I'd rather soak up more dmg on the regenerating shields than the non-regenerating health. On top of that, the +1 shields helps HT more than +1/+1, and +1 shields helps the eventual archons infinitely more than +1 armor. Yeah. I am still not totally convinced its worth its price.
If you want an alternative, a dark shrine is a great gas investment for holding off a hydra force until you get an expansion up and running. Also, some zerg players will just continuously spam zerglings to counter blink stalkers, so a +1 weapons upgrade is good to have as you can fall back on zealots with the extra minerals you'll accumulate because of all the gas heavy HT tech.
|
On August 04 2010 02:09 FreeZEternal wrote:
4 warpgates is not as effective anymore, I'm noticing zergs are stopping it relatively easily now.
We probably don't play on the same Korean server.
4 gate is still very effective on the top tier league.
|
1 base PvZ requires a LOT of practice. why? because you want to end/deal a huge econ damage by a timing push. adn i said: TIMING push.
the sense when to push is really important and IS different on each map, vs each build.
My favorite would be 2 gates zealots + fast voidray. This is really strong and the only way i see people held it off so far is by mass queen (3 or more on 2 bases) or fast lair hydra(which will cut in his drones count). you wan pressure with zealots 2 gates to force him go roaches and late expo. you have to do LOTs of practice to know the related timing on when to stop zealots production, get gas and cyber depend on how much damage does your pressure 2 gate did and timing on his roach waren. after cyber, skip wrap and put down star with 3rd gate => pump zealots and save chrono for VR. 1st vr out push asap, keep in mind that 1 vr > 1 queen but lose to 2 queens.
other strat would be DTs timing push which you goes 3 stalker, lots of zealots and DTs push timing (lose to muta may be). or Immotral sunken(spine) burst which hase a huge risk vs speedlings. dont even think about colossi if you are going 1 base. its really bad since range takes forever to have and colossus only good with +2 attack of in big number. +1 4 gate timing is not bad but kinda risky since by then, Z can easily out macro you on 2 bases.
most of 1 base strat has a very TIGHT timing window for you to push and when you start pushing, you better do it right. ty to watch replay and realize the "related timing" between the size of your army and number of drones he is pumping, number of spine he is putting down and size of his army. sometimes, pushing with 5 zeaots 2 stalker can win you a game =)
GLHF
edit: oh yeah, careful vs speedlings+banelings combination when you on 1 base, they will tear you down before you even realized. TIps: sentries FTW
|
2 gate -> expand. it's really quite amazing, and on scrapstation you can wall off with the 2 gateways so they can't deny your expansion.
4gate is never bad, it's super hard to fend off and it's really easy to do. literally 4 gating every game will get you to diamond (or 1150 dollars in tournament winnings, jkjkjk)
|
On August 04 2010 06:48 NB wrote:
1 base PvZ requires a LOT of practice. why? because you want to end/deal a huge econ damage by a timing push. adn i said: TIMING push.
I completely agree with you. I guess I meant just an opening like in base 2 gate zealot pressure into expand, or 2gate core with zealot, sentry into expand to control the zerg's drone count while I take the game into the macro game.
Although I haven't intended myself, I really appreciate people's input on 1base strategies such as DT rush, or blink shield stalker into DT, voidray builds. I'll practice them to see which is good for me to deal enough damage to compensate for my late expansion.
as always, any replay that shows the use of your strategies are very appreciated =)
p.s. I got promoted to the diamond league =D
|
A build I've been experimenting with is a 1 gate, fast forge before cyber for a fast +1 and +2 against zerg. Getting mainly zealots and a few sentries and transitioning into chragelots and then splitting either towards robo if lots of roaches or temps if lots of hydras.
2 gate early pressure into expand or 4 gate is also solid.
And if you're micro's good enough, phoenix harass -> expand -> temps is solid, but difficult cause of the amount of damage you have to deal to compensate for the early phoenix cost
just my 2 cents
|
i never go stargate unless i see a muta build. I always go stalkers and a few zealots, adding tech as i see fit.
|
|
|
I found Antimage's recent Voidray Expo build(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141155) to be quite solid. I think i'm going to experiment with this, as well as 2 gate expo. Thanks for your inputs people =)
|
Just 4 gate and end the game before 8 minutes. If it's one of the new maps (xel'naga caverns, delta quadrant, etc) there is nothing the Z can do about it.
|
i must agree with TDC! antimages voidray expo build is viable, because it's a good counter to lings and roaches, and it enables you to control the map. timing is the key for switching to a robo build. but nonetheless i love this build.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
