|
I'm sorry if there's no statistics about this but I just had a though regarding having around 5 to 6 orbital commands besides the usual 2 in natural and main.
I watched a game between TLO vs Sen, then I saw that TLO had too much minerals so he kept on spamming CCs to create PFs (to fight defensively) but the problem with that game is that his other expo's didn't have any SCV's to mine on. (since TLO was still mining at his natural gold and "hidden" natural in kulas ravine)
So the thing with having a few more OCs is that you can mine at a certain area without the intervention of SCV's and you can easily mine out an expo since MULE'S are like mineral devourers.
Also this strat is very map dependent, I think maps like Kulas and other maps with a lot of minerals is kinda viable for this type of strat)
I think that the Pro's of this strat late game.
- Don't need to produce that much SCV's since mules will handle all the mining on the expos
- You can sacrifice ymaybe half of your workers so that you can further create more units such as tanks, thors etc., since Mules doesn't take supply unlike SCVs
- You can mine out some of the expo's faster than you can say WATCHAMACALLIT. (kidding aside) which would render useless incase your opponents takes out that certain expo then tries to expand on that stolen expo. (sorry, can't explain in proper english but you get my drift)
- You'll also have lots of scan, then you can supply drop incase you get supply blocked. We all know that there are some strats that opponents takes out supply depots so you can't create that much units.
- possible use in 200/200 maxed terran units (since you wouldn't use the minerals in other resources)
-
On March 18 2010 00:18 JTPROG wrote:
Question: How many minerals would you be willing to spend on a MAPHACK, when you don't even need them?
So awesome analogy
Just think about it if you have around 5 OC's so, all-in-all you'll have around 1000 saturated energy which will equivalent to 20 mules if you times that by 300 (help me out on this one, how long does a mule live) you'll get around 6000 minerals which is equivalent to 4 patches of min per expo.
Cons:
- it's only viable very late-game,
- cost too much minerals to make OC's and their size is also a factor.
- strategy can't be universal in all maps. (possibly kulas, steppes and LT)
- might use the resources like a defensive PF's or units rather than OC's
- the resources would be used for other stuff rather than for a OC
- + Show Spoiler +
Anyway Discuss 
Oh shit, should searched this out and there's an actual discussion about this already (with statistics this time)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117581
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=116335
|
I'm sorta confused.
You're having trouble spending your minerals so you suggest that you sink all of your minerals into something that will get you even more minerals?
I'm wondering when I'd ever have the money to throw down 5 extra orbital commands and not have already won (or horribly lost) at that point.
|
On June 25 2010 12:20 FC.Strike wrote:
I'm sorta confused.
You're having trouble spending your minerals so you suggest that you sink all of your minerals into something that will get you even more minerals?
I'm wondering when I'd ever have the money to throw down 5 extra orbital commands and not have already won (or horribly lost) at that point.
Play TvT and you'll see what I mean, anyway this is more of an extension of the two topics regarding spamming orbital commands.
I think it's really viable, check out TLO vs Sen in Kulas Ravine. TLO is an awesome macro god but the problem is that when you hit that 200/200 mech or whatever you have you'll have minerals pouring down like hale in a bad weather.
|
My point was if your infrastructure is unable to support your mineral income, where's the logic in further increasing that income?
Are you suggesting a hard transition to Marauders in the late game?
Are you suggesting that one should prebuild those Orbital Commands so that they can float them somewhere useful later?
|
On June 25 2010 12:29 FC.Strike wrote:
My point was if your infrastructure is unable to support your mineral income, where's the logic in further increasing that income?
Are you suggesting a hard transition to Marauders in the late game?
Are you suggesting that one should prebuild those Orbital Commands so that they can float them somewhere useful later?
1) Yeah, that's the main problem, that's why I already pointed that out in the Cons: But there are games, really late games that require you to save money in the bank. So, if ever you don't know what else to build then spam a little more OCs. Not all of us are Bisus, Flash, JD's that maintains their minerals below 300.
2) Quite possible since that much minerals would help in maintaining a mech army due to the amount of gas needed by those units.
3)Well, floating them at a certain expo is an excellent strategy if ever one of your expos gets destroyed. since you already have a back up at your base.
|
On June 25 2010 12:36 Licmyobelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 12:29 FC.Strike wrote:
My point was if your infrastructure is unable to support your mineral income, where's the logic in further increasing that income?
Are you suggesting a hard transition to Marauders in the late game?
Are you suggesting that one should prebuild those Orbital Commands so that they can float them somewhere useful later? 1) Yeah, that's the main problem, that's why I already pointed that out in the Cons: But there are games, really late games that require you to save money in the bank. So, if ever you don't know what else to build then spam a little more OCs. Not all of us are Bisus, Flash, JD's that maintains their minerals below 300. 2) Quite possible since that much minerals would help in maintaining a mech army due to the amount of gas needed by those units. 3)Well, floating them at a certain expo is an excellent strategy if ever one of your expos gets destroyed. since you already have a back up at your base.
It really doesn't require a progamer to keep their resources low, and if you have so much of an imbalance in minerals to gas there is something wrong in prioritizing/micro/positioning etc. Generally you don't really need to save money unless you're at 200/200 and plan on macro'ing back a huge army against his 200/200 army, but what are the odds of this happening etc.
The thing is that this is situational and you can't just say "Oh I'm going to build a ton of OCs". TLO built those PFs to help defends, they had a purpose. This is like building 10 factories "in case I forget to macro and need to outproduce my normal revenue stream to dump my resources".
If you're able to control that many OCs for the sake of mining minerals WITHOUT GETTING KILLED, you're probably winning so badly that you could have done anything and won. Another thing to note is that in general there does come a point where more scvs isn't going to help you. If you control every expo on the map and maintain 120 scvs, your opponent on 2 base will crush your measly 80 food army with his 120 army (hence why TLO did not saturate all his bases). Which one again brings me back to the point that IF you have a situation where you can afford to just throw down 6 OCs and use MULEs to mine out expos, you've already won.
I was a ~1800 (800) diamond while beta was up, and I play exclusively terran. I've laddered (randomly) against some fairly well known tournament players and can say that if you as terran get on 3 base (actively mining) you're in amazing shape, 4 base is just unheard of. Terran armies are so efficient, as demonstrated in numerous games involving a 2 base terran dominating protoss/zerg who have taken most of the map, that you don't need so many bases with proper control.
|
On June 25 2010 14:06 mrk wrote:
I was a ~1800 (800) diamond while beta was up, and I play exclusively terran. I've laddered (randomly) against some fairly well known tournament players and can say that if you as terran get on 3 base (actively mining) you're in amazing shape, 4 base is just unheard of. Terran armies are so efficient, as demonstrated in numerous games involving a 2 base terran dominating protoss/zerg who have taken most of the map, that you don't need so many bases with proper control.
I think 800 diamond was closer to 2000+ old ELO because the last one had more time to stabilize. Just lending more credibility to what you're saying.
|
I watched a game between TLO vs Sen, then I saw that TLO had too much minerals so he kept on spamming CCs to create PFs (to fight defensively) but the problem with that game is that his other expo's didn't have any SCV's to mine on. (since TLO was still mining at his natural gold and "hidden" natural in kulas ravine)
If this is the match im thinking about(using PF to protect his other OC), then its realy a smart tactic.
Anyway doesnt really matter how many bases u have if u dont use them properly. Seen tons of Matches where one player has had twice as many expanions and still lost due to his opponent out macroing/microing him
|
Kind of offtopic, but in theory terran is the most powerful race for the fact that they don't need workers at all (no supply costs). So like say a late game fully macroed game a terran with several bases and OCs. and they maxed out at 200/200 with maybe 40-70 SCV taking part of that supply.
They could possibly sac like half to all of their SCV (save for a few to build) and really put some ridiculous power on the terran end game and redefine the Terran 3-3-3 Ball steamroller.
|
I kind of like the idea. One of your expos go down, lift and land your spare command center. Worker harass killed your workers...call down a bunch of mules. Mass scans (I love the sensor tower and all but what I do to people is always fake attacks with Ovies or units to cause them to think it's an army to waste their scan or make their army move so that the sensor tower back fires in one way or another).
I don't see huge benefits of the strat, but I wouldn't rule it out until I try it a few times.
|
Dang, this could get ridiculous.
A maxed out terran army would be far larger than any other race, because they would need no workers.
If you were building orbital commands just to make MULEs, they'd pay for themselves in just under two MULE runs, or 180 seconds (game time).
I think to take this idea further you'd have to calculate how much a 3 base maxed terran makes, then work out how many OCs he'd need to make the same amount of money.
|
Once you have the minerals to build extra CC's just for a PF or OC, minerals are usually way to high anyway. Making a PF at a key choke could be useful, but I like having lots of OC's so I can scan constantly, I just don't need the minerals, so I only use mules for things like summoning on enemy tank lines if at all. Using more mules so I can have less workers and more army is nice, but I'd rather scan every 15 secs with 5-6 OC than use a mule late game, which helps so much more than me making my minerals go from 2000 to 2270. Minerals are pretty much worthless later, only gas really matters, and mules don't mine gas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
