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[D] SC2 Multiplayer - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
June 18 2010 20:46 GMT
#21
The 'constant chatter' section is great, I think. Some players really need to learn how to better communicate in games. Voice chat is also important. I don't think I'll ever be able to play random 2v2/3v3/4v4 ladder anymore.

As for the rest, it's a decent guide with some valid points. But I think some stuff is a little overdeveloped, and too complex to actually put into practice (ex: roles).

Narrow the focus a little more and you'll have a great guide here.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
Smu
Profile Joined July 2009
Serbia164 Posts
June 20 2010 02:05 GMT
#22
On June 19 2010 05:21 Telperion wrote:
Umm... unrelated, but interesting to watch. Maybe you can start a thread on these ideas for people to comment on.
Beside that, please keep comments on topic.
Thank you.


I am sorry, I wanted to respond to a completely different topic. Having 30 tabs in my browser does this sometimes.
Take us into orbit Mr. Malmsteen. We've seen enough.
Telperion
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania39 Posts
July 28 2010 13:36 GMT
#23
Main thread is updated. - version 3.0 is up!

Two new sections:
Patching
+ Show Spoiler +
Read carefully upcoming patch-notes, as every little detail can (and will) change significantly the game. As it was seen during beta, a lot changed from one patch to another – splash damage, attack while moving, research cost & time, base armor, etc. – thus bouncing back and forth various unit combinations, timing pushes a.s.o. Read the forums and see what people think of the changes – you might be surprised sometimes and learn a lot more that the obvious from a simple patch.

For example a +1 armor upgrade for one particular unit might mean that it would take one more hit to be killed from its normal enemy counterpart, therefore making it much stronger on the long run, therefore rendering obsolete the old counter-tactic, therefore making more important another enemy unit and I could go on and on.

There’s no reason to believe that now that the game launched officially, it won’t change until the next expansion. Discuss these changes with your buddies and test with them how things work under the new conditions. Try and emphasize as much as possible on these details, go over the edge if needed – you might even find a solid tactic this way.


and Testing
+ Show Spoiler +
We can categorize players according to their own implication in playing the game. There are some who prefer to adopt a specific proven tactic and stick with it throughout every encounter. If they will fail at some point, they will simply go to a website and pick a new tactic to use. While using a proven tactic can net some quick and easy wins, this won’t help in getting the edge needed to play competitively or to adapt to changes. These types of players will always be one step behind and dependant on others to play the game for them.

Another type of player is the one who is willing to think outside the box and try things out, even if they’re obviously not viable. Always do this with your team – every time you got the chance or you have an idea, just go ahead and test it. While you might lose a few more games, the knowledge you can gain might prove advantageous later on. Sometimes this might even surprise your opponents and give you the win. Another good side for trying out various things is that it would help you get used to change. This way it won’t come as such a big surprise if the opponents try it on you.


as well as an update for Mindset - the enemy section
+ Show Spoiler +
Keep your aggression levels sky-high. Don’t act peacefully because you will only invite aggression. Some people tend to victimize themselves – starting with the impression that the opponents will be better and stronger than they actually are. This will invite aggression, quite obviously matching their fears. You can capitalize on this in most of your games by thinking as a predator. You and your allies are a pack of hungry and vicious wolves! The opposing team is a herd of juicy sheep passing through your woods. This is what you’ve looked for your entire life – prey – now it’s your time to eat. Go get them!


And a general correction/refocus where I found it needed that.

Enjoy!
The future is a thing to be shaped.
Telperion
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania39 Posts
August 04 2010 10:04 GMT
#24
updated, comments (even on specific issues) are welcomed - as it will improve the overall value of the material!
cheers!
The future is a thing to be shaped.
Cibron
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden253 Posts
August 04 2010 11:07 GMT
#25
I agree to most of what you say but some of the roles like gatherer etc are a waste of apm. Why would you task your ally with producing probes when he could be microing to the best of his abilities? It's not that hard to do both even if the micro suffers slightly from managing income.
ZOMGY (¬O_o)¬ || BeastyQQ FTW!! ||
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
August 04 2010 11:31 GMT
#26
add pics?
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Telperion
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania39 Posts
August 04 2010 11:51 GMT
#27
@ Cibron
not everyone has sky-high apm, so their weakness can be focused on resource gathering, therefore useful for the more skilled ally
obviously if each member is very skilled, there is no point in a specific role-play
we (me and my buddies) are not that good apm-wise (under 100) so we must adapt to win

@ SilentCrono
cool suggestion, I'll take it into consideration - this will definately spice things up
maybe in ver. 4.0 I'll start adding some
The future is a thing to be shaped.
viraltouch
Profile Joined July 2010
United States299 Posts
August 05 2010 16:41 GMT
#28
most of your content is regurgitating fundamental ideas of sc2 in team play terms. also, your team of players with divided roles will be beaten by a team of players who does all those things at the same time, individually. most of teamwork is involved with coordinating attacks n building unit comps against your enemy imo. and dividing something that should be taken as a whole just for purpose of delegating sounds unnecessary and counterproductive
Telperion
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania39 Posts
August 06 2010 12:16 GMT
#29
That may be, but the same's true about some people not even thinking about some aspects of the game. For instance I've never thought about the constant useful chatter until I've realized that me and my buddies were filling up the vent with unfocused information.

In this general guide I tried to reachout to most of the problems arising in our games, and also suggested solutions. I like it when someone contributes to it, even harsh criticism - as it will improve its quality.

The roles section is (and was) criticised by some for various reasons. I've put it in as one of the solutions I've brainstormed for improving the overall gameplay for beginning teams/players. Not everybody is able to build/expand/defend/attack in the same time.
The future is a thing to be shaped.
Telperion
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania39 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 11:43:28
August 18 2010 11:42 GMT
#30
New chapter added - a quick view into the Learning Curve and Behavioral Patterns.

+ Show Spoiler +
Why Random?

Learning curve
As you can remember, at the beginning of this guide I specified that I am trying to play as random as possible. One reason why I do that is that I aim at improving my learning curve.
Focusing only on one race would definitely improve your ability to play it, but is it enough? At one point you’ll reach a top. The only way to go above that would be to play the other 2 races. This way you would have intimate knowledge on how they work, what they can do. You would be much less surprised on what your opponents would throw at you, simply because you would be more familiar with that.

For instance, if you’ve never played zerg, you’d know very little how fast they can rush you with zerglings, when they could build mutalisks, why they can kite your marines with hydras on creep, etc. You would only have a general idea on when those beasts might come at your door, but the surprise is yours.
Not counting the obvious surprise factor on your opponents, playing Random from the start might be a bit difficult as a learning curve, but it would definitely improve faster your skills with and vs. any given race.

Behavioral patterns
The other reason why I play random is to avoid falling into fixed behavioral patterns. Behavioral patterns are rigid ways of dealing with upcoming challenges. While these can be very helpful in most situations, they could harm in others. Playing all races you would know what your opponents can do in certain situations and you can tap into that knowledge to force them react in predictable ways.

For instance, let’s say that you’re terrans and your opponents play Protoss. If they see you doing refinery and tech lab for barracks, they would probably focus in getting stalkers out a.s.a.p. in fear of a reaper rush. This triggers the specific response for what they perceive as a certain situation. More so, this would happen if they usually do the reaper-rush themselves when playing Terran. The problem comes in the moment when you knock their doors with a marine/marauder ball instead of the dreaded reapers. Their stalkers and zealots would die to that pretty fast.
This is behavioral pattern knowledge working for you. Obviously, this can happen the other way around. If you’ve never played protoss it’s probable that you don’t know that stalkers counter reapers and you’d try that anyway. If you fail the reaper-rush you would be at a severe disadvantage.

Assuming that you’re the player with the initiative, keep this in mind: “The ball is always in your court!”


Enjoy!
The future is a thing to be shaped.
LPolaright
Profile Joined August 2010
Israel9 Posts
August 18 2010 11:57 GMT
#31
I just wanted to comment about the Communication part.

The main problem about writing what ever it is that you are doing in every stage of the game, or when you're attacked (especially then) - is the fact it takes about a second (or more, depends on the person) to write that, a second which is usually necessary for micro or macro, and multiply that by multiline texts and the fact that sometimes team members might not notice the text on the bottom of the screen (i know I miss that sometimes) it creates problems.

I would have suggested some thing like short text for the first problem which is time: "scouted 6pool" or "10x muta mybase attacked" instead of these long frustrating sentences. Also writing that as soon as you see an army closing up will be much more effective then writing it in mid-battle.

Also using the minimap notification helps a lot, obviously it helps better when your teammates actually look where you point - which should be a concern for players regarding Cooperation.

Awesome guide for team-play btw.
Telperion
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania39 Posts
August 18 2010 12:46 GMT
#32
Thanks!

Cool suggestion for those not using voice or forced to text - small semi-coded text messages instead of long descriptive sentences.

I used the ingame voice but it seems to fail pretty often.
The future is a thing to be shaped.
Jezza
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia4 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 02:26:15
September 07 2010 02:24 GMT
#33
Loved your post ! Thankyou so much

I learnt that you could enable sharing of unit control here: i really feel this is an untapped resource, especially in my games, not much on it around the web either.

For those in my position (unsure where to enable) its in the top righthand side of the game screen. There is small box you can click to see all your team mates next to your teams mates names is a box you can tick enabling sharing for each of them individually.

Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
September 07 2010 06:46 GMT
#34
Perhaps the most important part of team play is sharing control, in my opinion it should be the first thing you do after spitting and queuing your workers. I've won games where I've done a double drop with my marauders and someone else' Thor, I've also won games where I let my ally have my entire army for the sake of coordination. The problem is most people don't want to give control because they think it detracts from their skill or something.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
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