EPThowever, sometimes enemy air raids (particularly against my ovies) can be very deadly and my hydras arent always mobile enough to stop it. ultimately, my question is, should I keep practicing with mutas and work on my micro, is it perfectly acceptable to just ignore them and use hydras? if not, then when should a player choose one or the other?
[Q] Hydra or muta for second tier?
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rigmar drake
United States15 Posts
however, sometimes enemy air raids (particularly against my ovies) can be very deadly and my hydras arent always mobile enough to stop it. ultimately, my question is, should I keep practicing with mutas and work on my micro, is it perfectly acceptable to just ignore them and use hydras? if not, then when should a player choose one or the other? | ||
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beakermimi
Ireland13 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Demus
Netherlands305 Posts
The only units that can really put the hurt on hydra's are tanks, colossi and banelings. Tanks can be a problem, make sure you have map awareness so you can catch them on the move. Colossi generally come later than hydra's, allowing you to mass up enough to snipe them early in a battle. Bring some lings to block of chargelots though. Versus zerg, get some muta's. Make sure you spread your creep around enough, and your hydra's should have sufficient mobility to catch harassment of ovies near your base. If you get a heavy harass, move your ovies over your hydra's to shut the harassments down. This may deter your scouting, which can be a pain, but remember that a heavy air force will lead to a weaker ground force, so if you've been macroing properly a retalliation is called for. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
I know it seems like I'm just advocating skipping mutas and going hydralisks, but by all means go mutalisks! They're great harassers when turrets aren't operational (hint: hide the spire as best as you can so turrets arent operational in time. Mutas also force ALL of the terran marines/AA to the back of his base, which in some situations can leave his front door very exposed. good luck! | ||
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rigmar drake
United States15 Posts
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Zintis
41 Posts
It also forces a pretty big army composition reaction since they can't run around with no AA; now you can either do a tech switch and catch them with a weaker composition, OR keep making more mutas, and their army will fall if they didn't create enough AA. Often in ZvT and ZvZ after muta production i'll mass banelings since they are very strong against marines and hydras; which are the natural reactions to mutas. | ||
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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TRAP[yoo]
Hungary6026 Posts
in zvt mutas are my choice to harass the terran and to force him to make more thors/marines/turrets than he wants to to screw up his unit composition and to weaken his push | ||
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IrT4nkz
229 Posts
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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Twe3k
89 Posts
On May 22 2010 07:17 beakermimi wrote: I've found against zerg mass mutas to be a bit more effective than hydras... I agree, especially Vs Toss. I learned my lesson when I tried to put up Hydras and he walked out with his Colossus and just wrecked my face. And Vs Terran most people are so afraid of Roach play nowadays that they skip marines and go right to Marauders. when you show up with Mutas they dunno what to do. Also Mutas are just so Mobile. You can harass so much faster and more effectively basically forcing your opponent to stay in his base and allowing you board control. | ||
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afirlortwo
United States161 Posts
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spiderface
United States74 Posts
You cannot engage enemy ground forces that can attack air with similar numbers of Mutalisks without proper support. You cannot engage enemy ground forces that can attack air with similar numbers of Mutalisks without proper support. I lost a game because I was massing up a force of Mutalisks toward the enemy base and caught a glimpse of their army moving out towards my base with one of my Overlords. I made the mistake of pulling my Mutas back to try to defend my expo with Zerglings against an early 2x Thor, Marine and Hellion push and it did not work out (durrr). I would have been much better served being more aggressive and having my Mutas continue towards the enemy base and try to make them pull back in response. Read them and tech switch appropriately  You should have the scouting and map control advantage. Use it to your advantage.Speedlings are a great compliment unit to mutas. They cost zero gas and you can cover the whole map in a few seconds with all of your units. Mind games and map control | ||
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ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
So I'm thinking if I try the LaLush build after scouting the quick robo, I should at least plop down a spire ahead of time incase it ends up being a colossus heavy army, and then I should be able to have mutas in time to hack away at the colossi before they scorch my army. That or skip hydras almost entirely and just tech to mutas. And if all goes well, expand, tech to Hive, evolve to greater spire (nice having the spire already) and broodlord him to death (with a decent supporting ground army). | ||
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Alegzandur
Philippines52 Posts
ZvT: Always go mutas, if you have speedlings and mutas you'll have so much map control you can easily outmacro your opponent; going hydras is too risky if he's going mech (which you wont know until you get a scout in his base which is about the time you get lair), tanks will melt your hydras ZvP: If he opened with 2 gates or if the map is particularly large like kulas ravine or desert oasis i like to go mutas because besides the mobility, mutas are effective in mass numbers against most gateway unit compositions (try to get a scout in his base before your lair hatches though, if you see a stargate then hard counter him with hydras). Go hydras against anything else. ZvZ: If you see a quick expansion on a map with a small choke, tech straight to mutas and block your choke with a few roaches, otherwise go hydras. | ||
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
ZvT: Always mutas for harras forcing him to go heavier on the marines mid/early game and own that army with banelings/roaches ZvP:´Never goes Mutas almost since it's to easy to swap to Phoenix and mutas are not good vs them in small numbers or at least lesser then 15+ ZvZ:always speedlings into baneling harras into mutas, always does the trick | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
Against 2 gate aggression I often fast tech to muta when toss make lots of zealots. Almost always can pick off quite a few probes against people who make late cybernetics cores. Against terrans if they get a bit crazy on reapers or make a lot of marauders I sometimes go muta. If I expect banshees I throw down hydra den since mutas take a lot longer to get out. Although I probably would be totally safe just making more queens. Usually I feel like hydras would be just as good or better then mutas, but if I get early spire vs T usually I will try and get broodlords out asap. I have not made mutas in zvz and am on at least a 20 game win streak in that matchup. My opponents have tried and died to ling/baneling though so I am pretty sure its not good. At least in high diamond. Maybe at the high competitive league level its different. I thought I saw Idra say he goes ling/baneling/muta. | ||
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Psykhe
39 Posts
If a terran goes for a hellion rush mutas are the hard counter for that. They are also a good way to punish him if he goes marauder heavy. Thors do fine to defend his army vs mutas, but are just too slow to defend his base. A single thor at the mineral line dies quickly to 10+ mutas before he can do too much damage, 2+ thors as stationary defence per base are a pretty heavy investment. Similar with protoss - if he goes heavy on stalker or phoenixes mutas are kinda useless, but if he focuses too much on ground with immortals, zealots and/or colossus they do pretty well. There are IMO also better to deal with void rays than hydras. | ||
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platonichate
Canada26 Posts
Of course if I see the player isn't properly countering my muta's I'll just mass them up, but for the above mentioned reason and the HUGE map control they give you they are always my first tier 2 unit out of the gates | ||
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Ksyper
Bulgaria665 Posts
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ConsummateK
United States98 Posts
On May 23 2010 21:17 platonichate wrote: Fast teching to muta's and then switching to hydra's has worked well for me. I rarely find a player, Z, T or P that is properly prepared for the initial muta harass, which is really the only thing I will use those muta's for. Taking 6-7 muta's into his base, decimating his drone line, putting him way behind economically AND forcing him to spend copious amounts of minerals on turrets will win me the game 9 times out of 10. Not actually wiping him out with the muta's but ensuring that for the rest of the game I can easily out macro him and then eventually steam roll him with whatever units are appropriate to what he is doing. Of course if I see the player isn't properly countering my muta's I'll just mass them up, but for the above mentioned reason and the HUGE map control they give you they are always my first tier 2 unit out of the gates This. At lower level play Mutas are just SO goddamn annoying that they can win you the game just by causing the player to lose focus and having him chase you around. You can really break a players will just by showing up and then disappearing after sniping something and then showing up 2 seconds later on the other side of his base or at an expo. What I have to work on is hotkeying while microing so that I always have rienforcements on way / continue to push the eco advantage. | ||
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Mr.E
United States434 Posts
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