EPTmight be a diff build alternative to the 1 rax FE.
9 rax vs 12 rax: economy - Page 2
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k!llua
Australia895 Posts
might be a diff build alternative to the 1 rax FE. | ||
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HeyheyLBJ
Sweden160 Posts
On April 22 2010 00:21 Cheerio wrote: Yes, economically 12 rax is better. Can we go on now to see the big picture? P.S. gone testing reaper rush trade-off. Ok, you have to forgive me for I didn't understand you realized that 12 rax was economically better since you spent the OP and everyone of your replies to me saying it wasn't... On the other topic: I'd imagine reaper-rushing easily gets the advantage over a non-reaper rushing playing. 9rax is not THAT far behind already thanks to OC, and if you can get a few SCV kills from the early reaper, it's gooood. | ||
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smore
United States156 Posts
should you have a certain amount of scvs mining when your maynard before its best to OC...or am i just overthinking the benefit of delaying the OC in exchange for producing scvs. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
I do think rax first openings are quite strong in most circumstances because you have faster access to tech. If you want the best economy though, 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 OC is the best build. edit: misread a little. Also, gas timing should be 13 not 14 on depot first. | ||
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Lythis
Germany87 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
-----------------------------9rax/12rax/9rax-reaper 16th worker was done: 3:59/3:32/4:04 OC finished: 2:33/3:14/2:34 1st gas finished: 2:40/2:34/1:58 Tech lab: 3:23/3:11/2:47 Reaper out: -/3:52/3:27 So basicly you get reaper out in 25 seconds faster for 32 seconds (only, compare with standard 9 rax build) delay in scv production = 1,88 scvs. But this is a very solid "rush": after the CO is done you can build reapers, scvs and supplies non-stop, actually you may be able to add 2nd rax shortly after. Anyone knows faster variations, but no faster than 9 rax? | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On April 22 2010 01:30 Floophead_III wrote: Also, gas timing should be 13 not 14 on depot first. On 13 I have to cut scv for some seconds. For the sake of the research (comparison with the best economy possible) I moved it to 14. On the other hand when going reapers it should of course be done at 13, as probably in most other cases. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On April 22 2010 01:57 FortuneSyn wrote: nice work man! For useful data, it would be interesting to see what the econ difference is between a 10/12/ opening is vs 9rax-reaper. Given the data you have already collected, it seems the econ hit comes from an earlier gas, not from the earlier rax itself. Actually the early gas is a good addition to 9-rax. Coz you start your OC on 11 you can't produce anything and don't need supply depot in near future. So the minerals are better spent on refinary. This is why the cut in scvs is negligble compared to usual 9 rax. And since reapers are gas heavy you don't need minerals that much. It's a well balanced BO, thanks for brining it up. And the eco difference would be hard to estimate by the sheer minerals or gas numbers, it's better be estimated by how much scv's you have cut: 1,88. | ||
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ExecutioN
Latvia52 Posts
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
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Wintermute
United States427 Posts
It's also nice, even if you're going for a more normal progression, to be able to get a few marines out quickly to help hold off a 6-7 pool or a reaper rush. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On April 22 2010 02:34 LuDwig- wrote: I have just tried the 1 rax bunker at 9 and it seems really good..its usefull to get fast expansion..the real problem is if zerg decides to just ignore your bunker and run in your base If you want 1 rax bunker FE really much try building barracks, supply and bunker at the choke in the way he can't easily run by. But generally 9 rax should be used for offence early on or at least to pretend you are doing so. An interesting idea is to build raxes at the choke and go reapers. Squise as much of it as possible and then add supply or 2 and a bunker at the choke and you should be fine for FE defence. | ||
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GreggSauce
United States566 Posts
9 barracks 9 refinary scv 10 supply depot scvs to gas scv tech lab scv/oc reaper sometimes you can get an oc sooner possibly due to better peon splitting but in general your barracks will finish at around 120 minerals which imo makes getting an scv a better option then waiting for oc and tech lab if you can get a second gas up its possible to effectively mass reapers+ barrakcs, i use this strat quite often, and people haaate it. multiple proxy rax with speed reapers makes everyone angry also if you 9rax reaper rush off of just one barracks you can expand, bunker up and transition safely to marauders or whatever you like, they wont push out of their base if they know youre still fielding reapers esp if they see 3 of them. my reaper build should be about 12 seconds faster then the one you described. | ||
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
I make up for the eco loss as much as I can by not sacrificing the early SCV if at all possible. There are less things I have to critically scout for so early with a 10 rax than a 12 rax, I can delay scouting some, or just find their base on a 4 player map, then get out and pressure/scout with marines later instead. 10 rax is a nice way to bunker pressure any slow pooling or ling-skipping FE zerg. Still at plat level, I can win a large number of games with early pressure instead of just straight teching- many players skip or skimp severely on their T1 and leave a lot of idle time on their early gateways or barracks. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
The core timings remained the same: -----------------------------9rax/12rax/9rax-reaper(solid)/9rax-reaper(fast) 16th worker was done: 3:59/3:32/4:04/4:23 OC finished: 2:33/3:14/2:34/3:49 1st gas finished: 2:40/2:34/1:58/1:41 Tech lab: 3:23/3:11/2:47/2:31 Reaper out: -/3:52/3:27/3:14 Fast build: By the time you get your reaper in production (which is 13 seconds faster) you will have a choice: have idle CC and accumulate minerals for OC or build scvs and delay OC. If you delay OC it will be late by 1:15 secs compared to solid build... delay in workers is 51 seconds = 3.00 scvs. If you delay scvs you will be down by 4.2 scvs and OC will be late by 1:01. So basicly you have to kill 3 workers in 12 seconds or solid build is better. | ||
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