EPTHow to scout terran as zerg? - Page 2
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
And it may not be different then sc1. But I feel like there are a lot more options that the terran could make in his tech in sc2 that is hard to counter in SC2. In SC1 Mutas were a solid choice against almost everything. I feel like they are a much weaker choice in SC2. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 27 2010 04:07 Chill wrote: It's the exact same as SC1 - Send a ling and infer information from their infantry count. I don't see how this is suddenly a problem in SC2 when it's a very similar situation. There are many different viable 1base openings in TvZ, and they each require a different reaction from Z. Terran wallin -> make 2 marines -> one of many different openings, how can you reliably scout them? Hellions: terran makes factory behind wallin, pumps 2-6 hellions and hides them behind the wallin, you can't see it by running a zergling up the ramp M&M: terran leaves 2 marines at wallin, and makes 2 barracks behind wallin and pumps mass infantry while only letting you see the 2 marines that are at the wallin, you can't see the additional barracks by running a zergling up the ramp Fast banshee: terran makes factory -> 1 or 2 starports behind wallin, you can't see it by running a zergling up the ramp Fast expand: terran makes CC behind the wallin, you can't see it by running a zergling up the ramp Each one of these requires a different reaction from Z, there's not one generic opening that is safe against all of them. edit: depending on the map sending a slow overlord at the right timing can defintely let you scout, but maps like blistering sands, desert oasis, steppes, lost temple, metalopolis all have large, ramped mains that make it easy to deny scouting & hide your opening. | ||
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sluggernaut
United States2 Posts
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Monk___
United States123 Posts
1) let that first drone stay in his base as long as possible. Sometimes you will see 2 barracks going up, if no gas you know he is massing marines. (mass roaches to counter) 2) if you see 1 gas being built and 1 barracks keep running lings up the ramp trying to see what he has. (Smart terrans won't let you see all their units but more often then not you do see a lot) 3) If you see marauders chances are you don't have to worrry about helions or banshees for a bit. (Counter with speedlings roaches mostly speedlings. 4)If you see 2 gasses going up you know he is teching, get roaches to defend against helions, and then hyrda fast cause you better believe banshees are coming next. 5) If you really have no clue suicidie an overlord. Look at it as 100 mineral scout. However plan on that overlord dying and make extra overlord before u suicide it. 6) Upgrade overlord speed as soon as you hit tier 2. | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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akito272
Argentina4 Posts
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On March 27 2010 04:07 Bosu wrote: You can't bust a terran front with speedlings. Banelings and speedlings yes, but it is a very all in build. And an all in build is not what is being discussed in this thread. And it may not be different then sc1. But I feel like there are a lot more options that the terran could make in his tech in sc2 that is hard to counter in SC2. In SC1 Mutas were a solid choice against almost everything. I feel like they are a much weaker choice in SC2. Because this all-in build exists, T should be walling in with large structures is what I'm saying, which grants the Z much more information. So if he walls in with supply depots, I say go ahead and punish him for it with a baneling/speedling break. | ||
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ThatsNoMoon
Mexico344 Posts
On March 27 2010 04:17 Monk wrote: Here are my tips on this situation. 1) let that first drone stay in his base as long as possible. Sometimes you will see 2 barracks going up, if no gas you know he is massing marines. (mass roaches to counter) 2) if you see 1 gas being built and 1 barracks keep running lings up the ramp trying to see what he has. (Smart terrans won't let you see all their units but more often then not you do see a lot) 3) If you see marauders chances are you don't have to worrry about helions or banshees for a bit. (Counter with speedlings roaches mostly speedlings. 4)If you see 2 gasses going up you know he is teching, get roaches to defend against helions, and then hyrda fast cause you better believe banshees are coming next. 5) If you really have no clue suicidie an overlord. Look at it as 100 mineral scout. However plan on that overlord dying and make extra overlord before u suicide it. 6) Upgrade overlord speed as soon as you hit tier 2. QFT. This is the guide for ZvT scouting. When you reach lair you should have NO problems scouting, changeling and overlords should be enough. | ||
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Attica
United States277 Posts
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
-Early overlord scout for proxies then send ovie near his base in a hidden/protected position. -First couple zerglings check his wall. If he has no wall in, or only has 2-3 marines assume hellions until you see otherwise and throw down roach den, build a few roaches for defense. -Early lair pretty much every game followed by quick overlord speed while still checking him out with zerglings -I usually sacrifice one overlord if I don't know what exactly what they are doing. If you have overlord speed its joke easy to scout their base, and worse case you lose 100 minerals (which is actually cheaper than scanning as terran). The timing of this sacraficial ovie should be aimed at checking for a starport/banshees. If they quick tech to banshees they wont have enough AA to down your ovie before it sees anything unless its a map where they can easily hide and protect buildings. I usually don't even get overseers until I need detection, because overlords with speed are dirt cheap and scout just fine. Basically, infer what you can from what you see on his choke, and if you are in the dark, send some ovies to die. It's better to be behind 100 minerals than clueless about what hes building. | ||
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
During my placement matches, right about the time I started morphing an overseer to scout, the terran moved out with like 10 marauders and 2 or 3 hellions. I had a lot of speedlings because I knew that there would be marauders shortly and I made more, but the hellions hid behind the marauders and roasted them all within seconds. I don't think he took more than a couple marauder losses. I would have had to produce a lot more troops and not even bother saturating my second hatch at all to beat that. An overlord sac in this case would have worked, but I had no way to know that. 90% of the time marines will waste my slow overlord before I get a view of any buildings, so I decided to wait for overseer, but that was too late. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 27 2010 05:08 Wr3k wrote: Heres me scouting in ZvT: -First couple zerglings check his wall. If he has no wall in, or only has 2-3 marines assume hellions until you see otherwise and throw down roach den, build a few roaches for defense. I see a problem here, 2-3 marines at his ramp means nothing, you can't just assume he is making hellions, he could be doing mass marauders, M&M w/stim, fast banshee, or FE + bunker. On March 27 2010 05:08 Wr3k wrote: -Early lair pretty much every game followed by quick overlord speed while still checking him out with zerglings I see another problem here, going fast lair every game is not good, you will be behind against certain builds, particularly M&M w/ fast stim or FE + bunker build. On March 27 2010 05:08 Wr3k wrote: -I usually sacrifice one overlord if I don't know what exactly what they are doing. If you have overlord speed its joke easy to scout their base, and worse case you lose 100 minerals (which is actually cheaper than scanning as terran). The timing of this sacraficial ovie should be aimed at checking for a starport/banshees. If they quick tech to banshees they wont have enough AA to down your ovie before it sees anything unless its a map where they can easily hide and protect buildings. I usually don't even get overseers until I need detection, because overlords with speed are dirt cheap and scout just fine. Basically, infer what you can from what you see on his choke, and if you are in the dark, send some ovies to die. It's better to be behind 100 minerals than clueless about what hes building. The problem isn't with scouting after you get lair, the problem is scouting terran's opening and responding appropriately. I agree that the best way to scout is probably to sac a slow ovie in the first 5 minutes of the game, timed so that you can see if terran is building barracks, factory, starport, or CC behind his wallin. On March 27 2010 04:17 Monk wrote: Here are my tips on this situation. 1) let that first drone stay in his base as long as possible. Sometimes you will see 2 barracks going up, if no gas you know he is massing marines. (mass roaches to counter) 2) if you see 1 gas being built and 1 barracks keep running lings up the ramp trying to see what he has. (Smart terrans won't let you see all their units but more often then not you do see a lot) 3) If you see marauders chances are you don't have to worrry about helions or banshees for a bit. (Counter with speedlings roaches mostly speedlings. 4)If you see 2 gasses going up you know he is teching, get roaches to defend against helions, and then hyrda fast cause you better believe banshees are coming next. 5) If you really have no clue suicidie an overlord. Look at it as 100 mineral scout. However plan on that overlord dying and make extra overlord before u suicide it. 6) Upgrade overlord speed as soon as you hit tier 2. These are really good tips, thanks. | ||
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