[M][2] Wolf Hall

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sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 08 2015 05:53 GMT

--- Wolf Hall ---

MAP IS PUBLISHED IN:

Na, Eu

Map Size (Playable) 148 x 134

90:

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ANALYZER:

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BASES:

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OUT DATED
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ABOUT THE MAP:

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OUT DATED
First part is that the middle has 2 collapseable rocks (If both are taken down path gets closed ling tight), this can be used to delay an incoming push, forcing opponent to take the long way around to reach your base.
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There are also some destructible rocks that is taken down helps players have a more direct path of attack.
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All bases including nat have at least 1 more available attack or harass path.
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Map is full of back doors and passages where you can move your army or part of your army around to have maximum efficiency. Mobile armies get rewarded.
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EDIT:
Map has been UP DATED! Suggestions have been added to map. I have also added a couple of doodads such as ramp doodads, vision doodads and bridge doodads (But the complete deco is still missing).
So give me your thoughts on this new version?
Also I have tested this map a couple of times with my friends and works fine!

Fatam

1986 Posts

June 08 2015 06:21 GMT

Looks promising. My initial thought was that maybe it's a little easy to sit on 3 bases? Not sure if that is a valid complaint but in my head I was thinking you just park your army inbetween the nat and 3rd that's against the main and then have a guy sitting on the XNT and that pretty much covers you.

are there going to be los blockers where the black/gray tiling is on the lowgrounds?

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

June 08 2015 16:35 GMT

Id first agree with Fatam that sitting on 3 bases would be a bit to easy on this map. However, that should be easily fixed by removing the watchtower (u dislike watchtowers that have obvious favoring to one player, or that are just easy to secure), and/or removing the rocks by the forward 3rd, and/or making the x1 and x2 ramps counterclockwise to the forward 3rd one large ramp, to reward attackers taking the long route(maybe?).

You know what's cool and not used often enough now days? Gold bases. If you remove the watchtower near the 3rd, you could put a gold base (6min, 2gas) there, like on the edge of the cliff making it vulnerable. That would help bring the base count up, 10 is to low imo for HotS and LotV, but that's debatable. The corner bases could also be gold bases (with preferably 8min, 2gas) since they are so out of the way. Just a thought.

I dislike the fact that there is no real benefit to holding the middle of the map. There are no tactical high grounds or obvious chokes to make use of, or any forward expos. Collapsible rocks are cool but don't see a reason for the destructible ones, they just block early movement and can be easily destroyed later on.

The specific rocks you are using are collapsible rock tower debris, and they won't show up on the mini map. If you still want to use the same models just use regular 6x6 destructible rocks and search them up in the data editor under models. From there it's pretty straightforward. Altering the models slightly won't change it from a melee map (at least I don't think it does...).

Good luck.

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 08 2015 17:21 GMT

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On June 08 2015 15:21 Fatam wrote:
Looks promising. My initial thought was that maybe it's a little easy to sit on 3 bases? Not sure if that is a valid complaint but in my head I was thinking you just park your army inbetween the nat and 3rd that's against the main and then have a guy sitting on the XNT and that pretty much covers you.
are there going to be los blockers where the black/gray tiling is on the lowgrounds?

Ty ty, maybe you are right I see now that the forward 3rd base might be too easy to secure specially with that watch tower. Or are you talking about the easy pocket 3rd expo? That one is close by, and can be easily reinforced if you take that rocks by your nat out, but in my defense there are 3 possible ways base can be attacked/ harassed by ground, but maybe with the right army positioning and some static defense base is 2 easy to secure (I will look into it). And yes about the blockers, ty 4 the idea

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On June 09 2015 01:35 SwedenTheKid wrote:
Id first agree with Fatam that sitting on 3 bases would be a bit to easy on this map. However, that should be easily fixed by removing the watchtower (u dislike watchtowers that have obvious favoring to one player, or that are just easy to secure), and/or removing the rocks by the forward 3rd, and/or making the x1 and x2 ramps counterclockwise to the forward 3rd one large ramp, to reward attackers taking the long route(maybe?).

You know what's cool and not used often enough now days? Gold bases. If you remove the watchtower near the 3rd, you could put a gold base (6min, 2gas) there, like on the edge of the cliff making it vulnerable. That would help bring the base count up, 10 is to low imo for HotS and LotV, but that's debatable. The corner bases could also be gold bases (with preferably 8min, 2gas) since they are so out of the way. Just a thought.

I dislike the fact that there is no real benefit to holding the middle of the map. There are no tactical high grounds or obvious chokes to make use of, or any forward expos. Collapsible rocks are cool but don't see a reason for the destructible ones, they just block early movement and can be easily destroyed later on.

The specific rocks you are using are collapsible rock tower debris, and they won't show up on the mini map. If you still want to use the same models just use regular 6x6 destructible rocks and search them up in the data editor under models. From there it's pretty straightforward. Altering the models slightly won't change it from a melee map (at least I don't think it does...).

Good luck.

Wow much thanks for this great comment, just what I'm looking for!
Yes ill fix the watchtower issue, and I do like forward gold base idea, I had thought about it, but in my initial designee I could not find the proper room for it, but maybe with some restructuring I can find the its right place. And it would fix the low base count you mention. And could also help with what you said about no real benefit of controlling the middle.
I will see what I can do about the destructible rocks, I will also add the proper ones,

Uvantak

Uruguay1381 Posts

June 08 2015 20:16 GMT

Well my first concern are possible cannon rush spots on the map, it looks as if the area between the geyser and the main base cliff on the natural could be cannoned easily, I would test this, but the map is not available, so yeah I would recommend you to check for 2 pylon cannon rushes and for 3 pylon ones, you can have a couple of 3 pylon cannon rushes in the natural, but you must be mindful of them, here in sc2 pylons can be used to easily block the access to the cannon, so you must think of cannon rushes up the third bases, I can see that in the counter-clockwise third base there are spots that are possibly exploitable, the clockwise third also has possible places that can be exploited behind the mineral line, these things are very dangerous in ZvP, so be mindful.

My second concern are the inefficient vespene geysers, your natural bases seem to have at least one for each player, I would recommend you to use standard mineral lines to try and fix them, one of the big advantages about the standard mineral placement is that they are more compact than other mineral lines, so you will have more space behind the mineral lines so it is easier to avoid cannon rushes spots.

With that out of the way, I must say that I really like the core layout, but there are problems with the corner bases, sc2 has the issue of 3base, but because the corner bases are so far away I don't see them as a potential base to take for any matchup, they are simply too far away, and the nearer "optional thirds" are easier to take without exposing you much to circle syndrome issues, or leaving the base too exposed (you need to destroy rocks to be able to swiftly defend the base because of army positioning).

Some small ideas:
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The overall ideas of the map are quite nice, but the detail work needs some improvement.

If you decide to move the natural/third ramps, I would suggest you to reduce the HP of the rocks too, even right now the third bases look too far away for Z. In the current meta zerg has issues holding his third vs the timing pushes of Terran, so one must be careful.

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 13 2015 19:09 GMT

MAP UPDATE
Ok thanx for the feedback guys!
(special thanks to Uvantak, ik analysis and posts like that take time, it helped a lot)
Ok so I have fixed what you guys told me.
What changed?
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- Watchtowers has been moved to middle (Now each grants access to half the destructible rocks, see analyzer)
- Gold bases on the middle low ground have been added (With this bases and the watch towers, fighting for middle will now be worthwhile) Also that brings the total base count up to 12.
- Rocks have all been fixed (Now they can all be seen on the fog of war)
- Cannon rush spots have all been fixed
- All inefficient vespene geysers and minerals have been fixed
- All 3rd possible bases have been brought considerable closer with some map restructuring.
- Ramps pointed out by Uvantak have all been enlarged, as has high ground space on thirds
- Middle destructible rocks have been repositioned
- Far away corner bases have been brought closer.
- Middle has received restructuring
- Some rocks blocking the paths have been changed to destructible rocks, giving the options for players to decide what paths they want to close off.
- Far away side paths have been enlarged, ramps have also been enlarged (Making players willing to take logger paths for an attack receive a reward)

Old Overview / New Overview (Compare)
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