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[M] (4) Sacrifice

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-25 02:23:10
February 21 2015 14:04 GMT
#1
I made a 2v2 map.


[image loading]

2v2
160 x 160
16 regular bases
2 gold bases

EU | NA | KR


Close spawns are allies. The rock towers can be collapsed from the low ground without vision.

+ Show Spoiler [Analyser] +
[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [Bases] +
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [Old version] +
[image loading]

[image loading]


glhf
not a community mapmaker
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
February 21 2015 15:34 GMT
#2
I love proper 2v2 maps! And I like ur idea here. The only thing that worries me is that if a team with at least one Terran was to rush early, they can build raxes and lift them to the other side so we have 2v1 situation due to the rocks.
Random is hard work dude...
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 21 2015 19:30 GMT
#3
I'm only a very occasional 2v2 player but I like what you did there. Looks like there's been an actual thought process behind the map, unlike for most 2v2 maps.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
February 21 2015 19:33 GMT
#4
This is a fine layout, but looks weak concerning cheeses due to the short air space between allies and the small rush distance.
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-22 13:56:34
February 22 2015 13:55 GMT
#5
I got some feedback on Reddit and talked to some people and watched some VODs and I'm really not sure how to proceed with this map in regards to super early 2v1 aggression. The biggest concern is TZ with T floating Barracks over to produce Reapers, but there are other 2v1 situations possible as well (e.g. involving P warping in across the middle). Unfortunately I have close to zero experience with 2v2 so this is all pure theorycrafting on my part.

Poll: What to do?

Keep everything as it is. (4)
 
40%

Combine the main bases. (4)
 
40%

Other (please specify). (2)
 
20%

Block off main cliffs so Reapers can't jump up. (0)
 
0%

10 total votes

Your vote: What to do?

(Vote): Keep everything as it is.
(Vote): Combine the main bases.
(Vote): Block off main cliffs so Reapers can't jump up.
(Vote): Other (please specify).



Obviously, combining the bases would be the safest option but also the most boring one. I would assume that 2v1 isn't as big an issue here as e.g. on Resupply Tanker since the fourth player isn't threatened at all by early aggression, but this is just me guessing since I really don't know shit about 2v2 where everything seems to be different than 1v1.
not a community mapmaker
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 22 2015 13:59 GMT
#6
Trying to get your map on the next 2v2 tournament to see how it plays out would be my vote.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
NinjaDuckBob
Profile Joined March 2014
191 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-22 17:10:51
February 22 2015 16:56 GMT
#7
Really I think the map would be fine without the rocks separating the naturals. Would lessen the effect of 2v1, while still leaving the bases farther apart than many 2v2 maps, making Warp-Ins and floating buildings into a partner's base still possibly better while allowing Zerg to help defend more.
NinjaDuckBob ~ Fear the fuzzy!
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
February 23 2015 02:59 GMT
#8
On February 23 2015 01:56 NinjaDuckBob wrote:
Really I think the map would be fine without the rocks separating the naturals. Would lessen the effect of 2v1, while still leaving the bases farther apart than many 2v2 maps, making Warp-Ins and floating buildings into a partner's base still possibly better while allowing Zerg to help defend more.

It would actually amplify the effect of 2v1 since the attackers could then easily join up forces with the defenders still unable to help each other in the very early game. See Resupply Tanker for an example why this won't work.


On February 22 2015 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:
Trying to get your map on the next 2v2 tournament to see how it plays out would be my vote.

Yes, well, how?
not a community mapmaker
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
February 23 2015 03:20 GMT
#9
I don't consider there is a need to fusion both mains completely, even tho i'll be the first to say that not as experienced on 2v2 as i'm on 1v1, i think that just adding a small terrain bridge between both mains would fix for the most part the issues you are facing.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 23 2015 06:07 GMT
#10
On February 23 2015 11:59 And G wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2015 01:56 NinjaDuckBob wrote:
Really I think the map would be fine without the rocks separating the naturals. Would lessen the effect of 2v1, while still leaving the bases farther apart than many 2v2 maps, making Warp-Ins and floating buildings into a partner's base still possibly better while allowing Zerg to help defend more.

It would actually amplify the effect of 2v1 since the attackers could then easily join up forces with the defenders still unable to help each other in the very early game. See Resupply Tanker for an example why this won't work.


Show nested quote +
On February 22 2015 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:
Trying to get your map on the next 2v2 tournament to see how it plays out would be my vote.

Yes, well, how?

Meavis almost got his 2v2 map played on BaseTradeTV's 2v2 tourney by just asking in the LR (it would have been played if not for a bug finding the map) so it's definitely possible, unlike with 1v1 maps.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10584 Posts
February 23 2015 07:37 GMT
#11
this seems super cool imo and i love the design of this map. please keep the rocks there. it makes maps like iron curtain also interesting.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Phaenoman
Profile Joined February 2013
568 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-23 09:11:50
February 23 2015 09:05 GMT
#12
I can tell u, if this map was to be in the ladder pool for 2v2s, then u would get to see a lot of this 2v1 situation and thus would be all about destroying those natural rocks as soon as possible. And if there is a map element that u wanna get rid of asap when the game starts, then guess if it's good or not. At this point I have to say that these natural rocks are a great idea and I'd try to keep them, if u can somehow link the bases otherwise preserving ur original idea while preventing 2v1s.

I am not sure if a few tournament matches would reveal that certain 2v1 behavior. But I guess that's better than nothing.
Random is hard work dude...
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
February 24 2015 05:51 GMT
#13
On February 23 2015 12:20 Uvantak wrote:
I don't consider there is a need to fusion both mains completely, even tho i'll be the first to say that not as experienced on 2v2 as i'm on 1v1, i think that just adding a small terrain bridge between both mains would fix for the most part the issues you are facing.

This is actually what I had in mind, just a small connection near the map edge to still preserve some of the split map effect. Here's a mockup:

[image loading]

Not sure about cannon rushes though, maybe I'll have to make it larger.


By the way, are unbuildable bricks still necessary with the mains combined? Or generally in 2v2?
not a community mapmaker
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
February 24 2015 06:45 GMT
#14
While people will complain about 2v1, which is the obvious imperative on this map, the correct response from the team under attack should be to counter against the aggressive player who is lending support (and is therefore scanty on defense). Obviously walloffs can make this harder but that's part of the metagame of the map, e.g. zerg should open speed & banes in all circumstances in order to punish their opponent if they go for "other side" plays, or to force them to stay home and prevent the 2v1 from occurring. Indirectly they are affecting the 2v1 even though their units can't physically interact with the "other side" opponent.

In any case, the design will only ever be highly unstable and rush based without a connection between the mains. I think the best solution would be to have a narrow connection like you've shown. Maybe not quite that narrow, more like 4-6 squares, possibly including a rock tower that could be collapsed to split the defending allies.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
February 24 2015 06:52 GMT
#15
^How about a rock tower that can be destroyed from the low-ground to cover the path between the allies?
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10584 Posts
February 24 2015 08:59 GMT
#16
maybe a set of rocks that separates the two mains? maybe that would help a lot with defense. but yes, this map is very brood war esque in super high unstable gameplay and very base tradey and understanding of how to take objectives together.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
And G
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany491 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-25 02:23:48
February 24 2015 09:26 GMT
#17
On February 24 2015 17:59 FlaShFTW wrote:
maybe a set of rocks that separates the two mains? maybe that would help a lot with defense.

That would have the exact same problems with very early aggression as completely separate mains.


On February 24 2015 15:52 OtherWorld wrote:
How about a rock tower that can be destroyed from the low-ground to cover the path between the allies?

I quite like this idea. It would make it much easier for the defenders to defend both ramps initially since that path would be close to the naturals so the distance between the ramps for the defenders is very short, however it would preserve the split-map effect in a quite unique way. I generally dislike rock towers but this is a really cool idea and unless I can find any problems with it I'll probably do just that.


Edit: Implemented the collapsible rock towers, updated OP. Also removed the unbuildable rocks.
not a community mapmaker
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