Had an idea for an unusual layout and wanted to try it out. Then I got sucked in by the new HotS assets. The defining feature of this map is of course the natural expansion, which is an in-base expansion where your Town Hall can be used to help wall off a double-wide main ramp.
I also wanted to have close by air main bases. I think this could be interesting especially with airplay in PvX and with speedivacs. The Xel'Naga tower provides a good vantage point to stop incoming drops to your 4th and 5th base. Also important is the main attack path, which is split down the middle with a ramp and LOS blocker.
I added rocks so the choke is slightly smaller than a normal 2wide ramp. I wanted players to be able to 1gate expand, but at the cost of the natural only being 6m1hyg.
This enables the following walloffs. You can get the Protoss and Terran ones up by about 3:30, which is also the approximate timing that zerglings from a 10 pool would arrive at the bottom of your ramp. A 7 pool would be harder to hold and would hit around 3:05.
That's a very interesting look at things. Looks like a nice change, too! Thought those debris under the ramp might be a bit strange for attacks and promote a more turtley style of play. Looks interesting though! Also nice name.
I think that it really discourages in kind of early aggression. The fact that the command center is required for a wall off really forces people to early expand. Still its a really interesting concept and we'll have to wait and see how it turns out!
Its an interesting map, but I don't really like the layout, since it seems to make a variety of pressure builds really strong. First of all, ultra fast reaper play would be very strong, due to the close distances, and the extremely large amounts of cliff surface. Apart from that, fast pool builds would also be very difficult to hold obviously. Also, command center/nexus/hatchery sniping, and gas geyser harassment might be a little too prevalent at the natural, since it looks like you can shoot at it from the low ground, forcing the defenders to the low ground to prevent it. The fact that in HotS, photon overcharge exists makes this natural set up a bit better, but it is still very vulnerable. The natural just seems too easy to kill.
Unlike many of the others, I really like the overall layout of the map. Close by air mains are neat because we don't see that very often. I also like that as you expand to the 3rd and 4th you are expanding farther away by ground, but still close by air. I could definitely see a lot of turrets/spores/cannons required to protect your main, especially with how strong air is in HotS.
My biggest concern, like many others is the in-base natural. While it's a neat feature, it basically means you have to Fast expand or else you can't wall off. It doesn't effect terran as much since they can lift off their buildings but with protoss or zerg, they have to FE or else they'll block it with another building.
My other concern is wondering if there's a way to make pathing a little more interesting because at the moment you just want to move in 1 straight line, especially from nat to nat. There's a couple high elevation changes but otherwise it's just one straight line. Not saying it's bad, but there really isn't a reason to attack from a different path. For instance, even getting rid of that giant 5x wide ramp in the middle and just making the two side ramps bigger to compensate for that might make the pathing more interesting.
Great job though! You'll have to post some replays/feedback you get regarding that in-base natural design because it definitely is new and could result in some interesting gameplay.
The ramp expansion is true innovation. The rest of the map is kind of ho hum, just seems like a lot of highly connected terrain (minimizing the meaningfulness of anything in particular) and some bases. Still and all, its pretty cool.
I really like most of it. But I believe it is much too hard to attack a two-basing player -) high ground advantage -) part of the wall is a CC/Nexus/Hatch - which you cannot break through fast -) ranged units/static D can defend from the side as well, which gives the defender a huge concave compared to the attacker
So: I like the ramp expansion. But I think the setup around it makes it too good. (like imagine the same layout but without high ground; or with a backdoor. Or a more exposed ramp)
I did toy with the idea of a 3 wide ramp instead of 2 at the nat. I decided against it because of the strength of fast pool builds on small 2player maps. I'm sure there are other, perhaps better ramp configurations that could potentially work using a similar concept. another idea I had was to have a backdoor ramp that can be blocked off completely by either collapsible rocks or by taking the half base at the location.
On March 25 2013 01:20 Big J wrote: I really like most of it. But I believe it is much too hard to attack a two-basing player -) high ground advantage -) part of the wall is a CC/Nexus/Hatch - which you cannot break through fast -) ranged units/static D can defend from the side as well, which gives the defender a huge concave compared to the attacker
So: I like the ramp expansion. But I think the setup around it makes it too good. (like imagine the same layout but without high ground; or with a backdoor. Or a more exposed ramp)
Is that really a massive deal though? If they're turtling super hard on 2 bases you can just expand freely.
You could always make the ramp bigger and put rocks on part of it. I personally think it's fine as-is (if someone wants to "turtle" on 1.75 bases.. so what), but it's a possibility.
On March 25 2013 04:42 Fatam wrote: You could always make the ramp bigger and put rocks on part of it. I personally think it's fine as-is (if someone wants to "turtle" on 1.75 bases.. so what), but it's a possibility.
Hm, right. It's only 1.75 bases. Didn't really include that in my thoughts... hm... Then I guess it's not that bad. My main concerns where mutalisks in ZvZ and bio in TvZ, TvP. Like, in ZvZ I don't think you can profit from taking a fast third right now after you see that you have mapcontrol, as it will just result in faster/more mutalisks for your opponent, which usually means you lose. And in bio TvP and TvZ a Terran could get away with a third CC way too easily, because roach, baneling and gateway aggression/allins all seem very weak in that setup. But yeah, with only 1.75 bases this might be less of a problem, as you profit more from the 3rd expansion.
One more thought: 1/1/1? Isn't the nexus too exposed to tanks and banshees in that scenario? And the ramp workes in the Terran favor?
Again, great work overall! Really like the innovative concept, the expension setup and the straight pushing lane. Just some concerns on my mind.
I'm sure there could be some strong timing attacks that would be hard to hold. 1/1/1 might be one, but I would also be more worried about a 4gate blink stalker all-in. I think the Planetary Nexus ability would be key in holding a 1/1/1, the 4gate would leave your own main ramp open to counter attacks since you are dumping gas into stalkers instead of sentries, with which you need twice as many to forcefield off your main. Going for a fast 3rd CC could be an issue with tanks and widow mines, but you have the disadvantage of 2 fewer mineral fields to burn through with MULEs. Also, your natural will mine out faster than normal on this map, making it harder to sustain 3 base continuous aggression FlaSh-style. Drops could be a problem with the close mains, but it is even easier than normal to move units from main to nat, plus you have towers in key drop-spotting locations.
It might be very hard to break a turtling player's natural with mass roach or hellion marauder, but you do have the ability to go for their town hall or their very exposed mineral and gas line instead. As I state in the OP, you can wall off completely before a 10 pool hits, but that might mean that a 6 or 7 pool breaks the map. A map that gave me the idea for a double wide ramp at the main was Sand Canyon, the 4v4 map. Its possible to defend a 7 pool on this map in close positions by opening 12/12 rax/gate every game - this is not ideal, but certainly doesn't put one so far behind that its not workable. Really as far as I can tell, the only matchup that might break the map is PvZ with early pool openers since Terran can move their buildings.
As far as the pathing being boring and the map too small, I hear you. I felt it was necessary to go with a smaller map as a trade-off for the almost free natural, and also to encourage players to attack on one base instead of pidgeonholing them into always fast expanding. The boring layout was on purpose as well since I wanted to go as "standard" as possible for bases 3-6.
So anyway that was my thought process. What the map really needs is people to test build orders out, so if anyone gets the chance, please let me know how it goes
Blink will be a problem because of the vast surface area available, an a double ramp is nice for blink too. You don't need a wall to hold a 6/7 pool so that's fine. And the zerg can't really do a mass ling followup so the defender will be able to take their expansion straight away, which is pretty bad for the zerg.
If anyone wants to play I will demonstrate these things. ^^
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AUZGx9a.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P6xdJEg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bkj6AGq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kj2NQpN.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oV1PJXM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OrBcyH6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fnYb3LC.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W0XshHu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UKPun5O.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RIGmsKX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MniC8b3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DvnYmQx.jpg)
Also nice name.
