• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:46
CET 20:46
KST 04:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Foreign Brood War Data analysis on 70 million replays BW General Discussion MBCGame Torrents
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1746 users

[D] Matchmaking for custom melee is what we need

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
December 03 2012 06:03 GMT
#1
Not a day goes by without people lamenting the state of the current mapmaking means. It basically boils down to the simple fact that no one except mapmakers seem to play melee maps that aren't on the ladder pool. And for good reason, it's just extremely boring to play versus someone far above or below your level. If you open up a custom game and wait for a random person to join, chances are slim that person is going to be your level of play.

So get a practice partner some say? Great, easier said that done. I know maybe 2-3 people in this game who have a comparable skill level to me. Only one of them is close enough that I actually met him twice on the ladder. (2-0 for me, suck it dude). Then comes the fact that they will have different taste in maps. I really want to play more on Abyssal City, but most of my friends dislike that map.

Getting the current HotS 'unranked ladder' simply replaced by an option to have 1v1 MMR play a role in open custom games would be great. There could even be a slider to indicate how lax you want the matchmaking to be if you don't want to wait long. I feel a lot more people would actually play melee customs instead of the unranked matchmaking in HotS (which I use a lot to calm down myself) if it actually guaranteed someone close to your skill level. Even if you have to wait 7 minutes for an opponent, I'd do that just to be able to play on my favourite custom melee maps which I'm currently only playing like once per month.

I feel we should really push Blizzard for such a system in HotS, discuss?
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
Callynn
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands917 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 09:09:55
December 03 2012 09:09 GMT
#2
Wow, I totally agree with your point of view - but I see a little problem.

Say that all curently made (decently balanced and pretty looking) maps are uploaded and put into a ladder - the sheer amount of maps would still make the wait time to find an opponent quite enormous unless if you both opt not to care for which map is played.

So, although your chances of playing on different maps will be big, the chances of fighting on that one map you like will still be low. Let's not forget how many maps made by the community - who is going to decide whether or not they are worth placing in this matchmaking system?

Although I agree with the sentiment, I think the most practical solution would simply be for Blizzard to make a community-made map selection (of about 10 maps) per season that can be played on non-ladder in addition to the original ('balanced') ladder. However, blizzard is too damn lazy to go through all the community maps to make that kind of list.

The second option, which is slightly less professional but could still work is for the mapmaking community to launch this kind of initiative. A group of people would select 10 maps and put them on a public list and add them to a public channcel. All that is needed then is for someone to build a tracking system in all these maps to help track 'costum-mma' rating. However, the target group will still be significantly smaller than the blizzard mma system would give.

Kind of hopeless probably
Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered.
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
December 03 2012 18:07 GMT
#3
Really good idea but something Blizz probably wouldn't do because they're shitty.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
December 03 2012 18:23 GMT
#4
I have already thought about this and i "think" i actually have a pretty good and simple solution for this. give me a moment and i'll make a quick mockup of it :D
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
December 03 2012 18:46 GMT
#5
alright, so here is an idea:
what if you could filter open lobbies for opponents within your MMR range? or even even the option to have your lobby only visible to people within your MMR when creating a game, to avoid people from joining who are only looking for weaker opponents, etc.

[image loading]
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
December 03 2012 19:53 GMT
#6
On December 04 2012 03:46 lefix wrote:
alright, so here is an idea:
what if you could filter open lobbies for opponents within your MMR range? or even even the option to have your lobby only visible to people within your MMR when creating a game, to avoid people from joining who are only looking for weaker opponents, etc.

[image loading]
Yeah, this is absolutely great as well to get it rolling at least in 1v1 melee to just be able to see if it's going to be even or not.

I really feel the reason no one plays custom melee is because you have no idea what you're going to be matched with.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
December 04 2012 00:17 GMT
#7
i actually came up with an even simpler solution. basically just a checkbox to filter game lobbies with suitable opponents.
[image loading]
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
December 04 2012 00:37 GMT
#8
Magnificent, post it on reddit, get an angry mob of upvote trainers behind it and force Dustin to kneel before it.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
December 04 2012 00:39 GMT
#9
already did, but with little success so far :D
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/148cnt/simple_solution_to_breathe_new_life_into_the_open/
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
The_Frozen_Inferno
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada98 Posts
December 04 2012 00:39 GMT
#10
I thought that the reason that no one plays custom standard melee is that there is no incentive to play on non-ladder maps.

For the subset of people that play as competitive 1v1 'ladder warriors' going up in rank is the incentive. So there is no incentive to practice on non-ladder maps since that won't help you improve your laddering as directly (MMR and the actual maps you learn on). This point was talked about a lot on State of the Game in the past.

Is there really an appetite for a non-ladder, non-ranked, but semi-competitive 1v1 melee mode?

. . . or am I missing the point and what's being asked for here is something similar to blizzard's proposed unranked ladder, but without the restriction of having a blizzard-controlled map pool that would appeal more to the casual-tryhard?
In Bizarro World, I ladder more than I make custom maps
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
December 04 2012 00:42 GMT
#11
On December 04 2012 09:39 The_Frozen_Inferno wrote:
I thought that the reason that no one plays custom standard melee is that there is no incentive to play on non-ladder maps.

For the subset of people that play as competitive 1v1 'ladder warriors' going up in rank is the incentive. So there is no incentive to practice on non-ladder maps since that won't help you improve your laddering as directly (MMR and the actual maps you learn on). This point was talked about a lot on State of the Game in the past.

Is there really an appetite for a non-ladder, non-ranked, but semi-competitive 1v1 melee mode?

. . . or am I missing the point and what's being asked for here is something similar to blizzard's proposed unranked ladder, but without the restriction of having a blizzard-controlled map pool that would appeal more to the casual-tryhard?

well, there are many maps, like gsl maps, that people would love to play on. but with the current system that is simple impossible, unless you bring some friends with you to play against. and then there are also many unknown community maps, that need some playtime to gain popularity.
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
December 06 2012 15:02 GMT
#12
Even with a slider bar for rating variance, if no one at your level wants to play that map, you are sitting and waiting forever, or you get someone who is below (or above) your level of play.

I think a better solution would be to have a sort of "wish list" either per account or per map. The purpose would be to have a way to send an invitation to others who are on the list. So if you like a map, you join the list for that map, or add that map to your list. Then when you go to send an invitation for a game on that map, you would see the other people who have joined the list and their online/away and favored statuses (and maybe a "previously played" status as well?). Everyone would be anonymous until they accept the invitation. The reason I think something like this is a better solution is because while you still have the map exposure/incentive to play problem, you at least can see whether you are going to be wasting your time trying to get a game on that map. If you can see there are five people on who want to play that map, and one is at your skill level, you can just send the invite when that person in not in game. And if you just wanted it to be "random matchmaking", you can just add a check box to send a random invitation (you can still have the slider bar here, too). But at least, in this way you don't have to sit in a game lobby and wait. You can pick and choose based on availability. And if you do have to wait, you may have a better idea of how long you might have to wait.

I guess, the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive... having a sort for already existing game lobbies could still be useful, too, I suppose.

Ultimately though, while I think something like this would be a good feature, it would need to be a part of a more comprehensive solution like I suggest here. It would be a great for something like a practice option. The thing is that it is probably going to be pretty tough for a lot of maps to benefit from a feature like this by itself since there is little draw for anyone to even look to see what others might want to play. Maybe GSL or other tournament maps would benefit from it -- and maybe those are the only ones that need it -- but it seems like this feature alone is sort of a stop-gap measure and not something that is a cure-all.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
17:00
Ro8 Set 1
Dewalt vs ZZZero
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
16:55
FSL TeamLeague: ASH vs IC
Freeedom40
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 188
MindelVK 40
DisKSc2 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3361
EffOrt 642
firebathero 254
Bonyth 151
Rush 119
Shuttle 117
Dewaltoss 88
Rock 35
Dota 2
Gorgc5182
qojqva4068
Fuzer 446
420jenkins348
Counter-Strike
fl0m6052
zeus1454
chrisJcsgo46
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King101
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu451
Khaldor395
Other Games
Grubby4975
Mlord734
RotterdaM425
Beastyqt388
DeMusliM185
KnowMe168
Hui .123
Trikslyr66
Livibee52
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1507
gamesdonequick692
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 48
• LUISG 35
• Reevou 4
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 12
• Michael_bg 7
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3323
Other Games
• imaqtpie1506
• Shiphtur193
• tFFMrPink 16
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
14m
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2h 14m
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 14m
WardiTV 2025
16h 14m
OSC
19h 14m
IPSL
21h 14m
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
1d
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Wardi Open
1d 16h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-04
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.