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[M] (2) Amethyst - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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OxyGenesis
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
November 13 2012 14:00 GMT
#21
Cool map! Definitely one of your best ones. I can imagine this being a lot of fun to play. I think at the top level of play it won't create the best games (short rush distance, relatively simple expansion layout) but for high level and below I think it's great. You're getting much better with your aesthetics too, which is especially impressive given that it's Ulnar! Great use of texturing and doodads in combination and the contrast between the light snow and the dark hull textures really makes the map 'pop'. My favourite part is the 'snow drift' ramps either side of the XNT.
Maker of Maps inc. Vector, Uncanny Valley and Fissure | Co-Founder of SC2Melee.net
necrimanci
Profile Joined March 2011
70 Posts
November 13 2012 17:29 GMT
#22
Doesnt the formation in front of the natural entrance make immortal/sentry impossible to hold when P gets there? It really looks like a forcefield festival :-D Besides that i really like the map design.
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
November 13 2012 19:46 GMT
#23
I'm liking the way the map looks... a lot :D. Personally, I'm a fan of maps that have the "potential" for early aggression but also lend well towards macro games. The only thing I would have liked to see on this particular map was a slight widening of the choke on the third with the rocks. That create a little interesting dynamic there where taking that third is safer at first, but if you let the rocks go down, you must defend a larger choke.

Again, kudos to you. See if you can get Kabel to do a Starbow version of this map for $hits and giggles.
Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
Antares777
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1971 Posts
November 13 2012 21:26 GMT
#24
Amethyst has a Steppes of War feel to it in the sense that the rush distance is a short and straight line between naturals and decreases in elevation as you approach the center of the map. The rush distance may not be a problem, considering it is countered with expansions that are easy to expand to and a very controllable layout.

There is a lot of emphasis on controlling the center in this map. It is the fastest route between the mains and naturals, and is the only route that units can pass through to get to the other side without destroying the destructible rocks. A map feature like that will make Terran mech a force to be reckoned with. Oh, and there is also a watchtower there. I believe that the watchtower is in a location that favors mech a bit too much, but there are no good alternatives to its current location, and no watchtowers at all on a small map creates a very technical game: players will have to be super aware of their surroundings and scout a lot.

One thing that I find a bit odd about the layout is how the mono-entrance 6th expansions are set up relative to the optional 3rd blocked expansions. Many maps have mono-entrance expansions set up as the intended final expansion for players. This is because they make an unambiguous expansion pattern easier to create. But, these expansions are extremely close to the thirds. This makes me feel that they are not intended for either player; the rocks will most likely be destroyed by the time these expansions become relevant in a game, so the base would be dangerously close to both players.

I think if I understood what you are trying to get out of the expansion pattern on Amethyst I'd be of more help with criticism. The two-thirds set up feels unnecessary. I am not sure what it accomplishes in terms of balance or gameplay.

I would consider removing the destructible rocks and modify the third and 6th expansions accordingly to maintain balance. This would make the main pathways of the map have a tic-tac-toe shape to them: two sets of two paths that cross each other (the map already has these paths, but the rocks make it complicated). Therefore, the center of the map would not have so much control during early games. The cons to this would be balancing the map around the way that the expansions would interact without the rocks. The map would certainly have expansion ambiguity if it does not already.

Sorry if I am not being very helpful, it's just that this map has a peculiar layout... changing it might cause even more balance problems than it already has, so I am trying to be cautious while suggesting improvements. I see that you want Amethyst to be a map that allows rushing, but also turtling. This is probably going to be extremely difficult to create and balance, but I really want to see it happen! I really like the aesthetics; I haven't seen a map with snow in space. Snow is cool!

Good luck on Amethyst!
Semmo
Profile Joined June 2011
Korea (South)627 Posts
November 17 2012 05:08 GMT
#25
On November 13 2012 23:00 OxyGenesis wrote:
Cool map! Definitely one of your best ones. I can imagine this being a lot of fun to play. I think at the top level of play it won't create the best games (short rush distance, relatively simple expansion layout) but for high level and below I think it's great. You're getting much better with your aesthetics too, which is especially impressive given that it's Ulnar! Great use of texturing and doodads in combination and the contrast between the light snow and the dark hull textures really makes the map 'pop'. My favourite part is the 'snow drift' ramps either side of the XNT.

Thanks.

On November 14 2012 02:29 necrimanci wrote:
Doesnt the formation in front of the natural entrance make immortal/sentry impossible to hold when P gets there? It really looks like a forcefield festival :-D Besides that i really like the map design.

Well, the zerg should try to engage at the center, I think.

On November 14 2012 04:46 Doominator10 wrote:
I'm liking the way the map looks... a lot :D. Personally, I'm a fan of maps that have the "potential" for early aggression but also lend well towards macro games. The only thing I would have liked to see on this particular map was a slight widening of the choke on the third with the rocks. That create a little interesting dynamic there where taking that third is safer at first, but if you let the rocks go down, you must defend a larger choke.

Again, kudos to you. See if you can get Kabel to do a Starbow version of this map for $hits and giggles.

Well I don't like Starbow that much, and it wouldn't fit with his vision I think.

On November 14 2012 06:26 Antares777 wrote:
Amethyst has a Steppes of War feel to it in the sense that the rush distance is a short and straight line between naturals and decreases in elevation as you approach the center of the map. The rush distance may not be a problem, considering it is countered with expansions that are easy to expand to and a very controllable layout.

There is a lot of emphasis on controlling the center in this map. It is the fastest route between the mains and naturals, and is the only route that units can pass through to get to the other side without destroying the destructible rocks. A map feature like that will make Terran mech a force to be reckoned with. Oh, and there is also a watchtower there. I believe that the watchtower is in a location that favors mech a bit too much, but there are no good alternatives to its current location, and no watchtowers at all on a small map creates a very technical game: players will have to be super aware of their surroundings and scout a lot.

One thing that I find a bit odd about the layout is how the mono-entrance 6th expansions are set up relative to the optional 3rd blocked expansions. Many maps have mono-entrance expansions set up as the intended final expansion for players. This is because they make an unambiguous expansion pattern easier to create. But, these expansions are extremely close to the thirds. This makes me feel that they are not intended for either player; the rocks will most likely be destroyed by the time these expansions become relevant in a game, so the base would be dangerously close to both players.

I think if I understood what you are trying to get out of the expansion pattern on Amethyst I'd be of more help with criticism. The two-thirds set up feels unnecessary. I am not sure what it accomplishes in terms of balance or gameplay.

I would consider removing the destructible rocks and modify the third and 6th expansions accordingly to maintain balance. This would make the main pathways of the map have a tic-tac-toe shape to them: two sets of two paths that cross each other (the map already has these paths, but the rocks make it complicated). Therefore, the center of the map would not have so much control during early games. The cons to this would be balancing the map around the way that the expansions would interact without the rocks. The map would certainly have expansion ambiguity if it does not already.

Sorry if I am not being very helpful, it's just that this map has a peculiar layout... changing it might cause even more balance problems than it already has, so I am trying to be cautious while suggesting improvements. I see that you want Amethyst to be a map that allows rushing, but also turtling. This is probably going to be extremely difficult to create and balance, but I really want to see it happen! I really like the aesthetics; I haven't seen a map with snow in space. Snow is cool!

Good luck on Amethyst!

The thing is the entrance is mono, but it's very close to opponent. I believe that chokes makes expansions defense easier even if the distance maybe short. That was my thought, anyway.

Mapmaker of Frost, Fruitland and Bridgehead
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10342 Posts
November 17 2012 05:17 GMT
#26
once the rocks at the third are opened, it will be pretty hard to defend everywhere. if they attack ur third, a small sneak attack into your natural would do so much damage.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Semmo
Profile Joined June 2011
Korea (South)627 Posts
November 19 2012 13:47 GMT
#27
On November 17 2012 14:17 FlaShFTW wrote:
once the rocks at the third are opened, it will be pretty hard to defend everywhere. if they attack ur third, a small sneak attack into your natural would do so much damage.


that is basically for almost all maps. And this is why the thirds are rocked right now - to make it easier to defend. I don't know what your comments add to...
Mapmaker of Frost, Fruitland and Bridgehead
Entirety
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
1423 Posts
November 23 2012 00:57 GMT
#28
This map is absolutely fantastic! The other day, I played a TvT on it and I didn't find the rush distance to be too small... Yes, we played aggressively, but it was nowhere near Steppes of War level. It was fun because neither of us was inclined to turtle heavily.

Great work!
IMMvp (정종현) | Fan Club: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211431
Semmo
Profile Joined June 2011
Korea (South)627 Posts
November 25 2012 08:48 GMT
#29
On November 23 2012 09:57 Entirety wrote:
This map is absolutely fantastic! The other day, I played a TvT on it and I didn't find the rush distance to be too small... Yes, we played aggressively, but it was nowhere near Steppes of War level. It was fun because neither of us was inclined to turtle heavily.

Great work!

Thanks! Could you upload the replay?
Mapmaker of Frost, Fruitland and Bridgehead
Hey!
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada5 Posts
December 27 2012 21:00 GMT
#30
This map looks faboulus! I'll try to use it this weekend
I register for jersey awwww yeaa
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2408 Posts
December 27 2012 22:20 GMT
#31
Nat to nat distance kinda sucks. The whole map feels a bit constricted and small. Not sure the gameplay will be good.

Aesthetics are improving! I like the idea behind the rocks. And I think the map could work well. I'd try adjusting the paths to make all of the distances longer.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Monitor
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