|
Map preview: (720x640)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PjOgH.jpg)
High quality image (1440x1280)
Players: 2
Size: 144x128
Money
Main: 8 minerals, 2 gas
Natural: 8 minerals, 2 gas
3rd: 8 minerals, 2 gas
4th: 5 minerals, 1 rich gas
5th: 8 minerals, 2 gas
6th: 8 minerals, 2 gas
Concept
2 player map that emphasizes on space controlling with bridges as well as open areas. Expansions follows one after the other but each one is original and defended and attacked differently. Natural expansion has 2 exits (inspired by Blue Storm).
The area outside the natural is unbuildable. Which means creep spreading or hard pushing is impossible in that area. Bridges are also unbuildable but the larger bridges has small buildable dots on them so creep spreading is still possible.
The rocks: Opens up the natural ramp choke. Takes only 2 buildings to wall off but after the rocks are destroyed 3 are required.
Natural backdoor: Allows for a shorter passage to the center as well as your opponent. Only small units can pass through.
List of units that can/cant pass.
+ Show Spoiler +Yes
zergling
drone
baneling
hydralisk
changeling
scv
marine
reaper
ghost
marauder
viking (ground)
probe
sentry
zealot
high templar
dark templar
No
hellion
tank
thor
roach
infestor
queen
ultralisk
stalker
immortal
archon
Snap Previews
Natural
Natural Backdoor
Main to 3rd
4th Base
5th and 6th Base
Center
Placement Grid (Wallins, Bridges, Unbuildable Areas)
Line of sight blocker (los): LOS surrounding the center watch tower.
Watch Tower: 1 placed in the center.
Destructible debris/rocks: 1500hp 3armor rocks placed in both naturals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update 1.1
-Added unbuildable walkable 1x1 hex next to main base ramps to prevent 2 bunker blocks.
-Added unbuildable walkable 1x1 hex by inside part off the backdoor preventing blocking with large buildings (walling with a small building is still possible) [Image]
-Moved the the main base ramps slightly closer to the natural minerals.
-Changed some mineral positions in the natural.
|
There is some really cool stuff on this map that quite frankly I have no idea how it would play out. I am concerned about the natural for protoss, as they would need two pylons to wall off both entrances to protect themselves vs a 10-12 pool. However, it looks as if a single zealot might be able to block the small entrance, which I find to be kinda cool. Aside that though, I will need to try it out to see how the other features play out.
|
On May 11 2012 04:29 Timetwister22 wrote:
There is some really cool stuff on this map that quite frankly I have no idea how it would play out. I am concerned about the natural for protoss, as they would need two pylons to wall off both entrances to protect themselves vs a 10-12 pool. However, it looks as if a single zealot might be able to block the small entrance, which I find to be kinda cool. Aside that though, I will need to try it out to see how the other features play out.
yes that was for sure a concern and is also a reason i compensated with the rocks
if it turns out too difficult protoss can still always wall with their nexus anyway so i dont see it as a big issue.
if you happen to have opened by walling on the ramp and notices its 10pool or something you can still wall off with 2 buildings and make a second pylon in the backdoor entrance and wall that off and only 1 zergling can attack that pylon which is enough time to put down a second cannon or get a zealot out
|
2rax would been broken without this change  )
Update 1.1
-Added unbuildable walkable 1x1 hex next to main base ramps to prevent 2 bunker blocks.
-Added unbuildable walkable 1x1 hex by inside part off the backdoor preventing blocking with large buildings (walling with a small building is still possible) [Image]
-Moved the the main base ramps slightly closer to the natural minerals.
-Changed some mineral positions in the natural.
|
I must say it looks very good. It's not 100% symmetrical though! I can't unsee that there are differences with the green decal stuff, but this is only my subjective opinion.
Strategy-wise I see some really interesting things happening with the small choke. Just make sure it doesn't turn into a cheese map just because of that, it's way too pretty!
I am also a bit worried of Zergs spinecrawlerspamming, because that kind of location control is really powerful. Even though you said the map focuses on that, it makes lategame hard for protosses or terrans. I think spine pushing throughout the center can be a real problem, but let's see how it pans out first.
It's so great that you pros make maps. Thumbs up, I hope for some really awesome games :D
|
I like this map a lot. Questions: Can stalkers blink across the ramp into natural? (I assume they can.) Also: What role does the high ground behind the natural play? Is it to make air harrass easier? Or is it to prevent tanks &c. seiging from the 6th without vision? (Can seige tanks hit the natural gas from the 6th?) Finally: In testing this map, has it played out at all like Blue Storm? How have people used the bridge to the natural? Which match-ups does it play the biggest role in? (My instinct tells me ZvZ.)
Overall, good work. This may be the most viable map I've seen you make.
|
On May 11 2012 07:39 mangoloid wrote:
I like this map a lot. Questions: Can stalkers blink across the ramp into natural? (I assume they can.) Also: What role does the high ground behind the natural play? Is it to make air harrass easier? Or is it to prevent tanks &c. seiging from the 6th without vision? (Can seige tanks hit the natural gas from the 6th?) Finally: In testing this map, has it played out at all like Blue Storm? How have people used the bridge to the natural? Which match-ups does it play the biggest role in? (My instinct tells me ZvZ.)
Overall, good work. This may be the most viable map I've seen you make.
thank you very much
i havent actually played the map (or anyone i think)
when i make maps i just look at them and check them out in single player to kind of get a feel for everything. to actually play the map and see how it plays out and do changes because of it takes over 1000 games. so the way you go about it is just to throw it out there and let people see and talk about it and play it if they want to. and later on if the map is to go into a tournament its usually played quite a bit in beforehand
how the bridge will play out i have some rough ideas but not sure of yet exactly. i dont think its a huge part of this map that everything revolves around it or anything i like to think it more as a cool addition thats also very convenient compensation for what would originally been very long nat to nat distances
the cliffs behind the natural is just pretty standard stuff, its mostly for overlord spots but also to help harassing a bit like you said. almost all maps have some sort of overlord spot close to the natural to help zerg scouting
|
Hard to go into specifics since the map is somewhat hard to read. I can see what kind of look you are going for, but as it is now it's really all over the place, your texturing could use a lot of work. Also, the Protos decals are doing more harm than good imho.
Always nice to see creativity in your maps, but the lack of experience with "texturing for gameplay" is obvious. Maybe ask somebody for some help in that department?
Any chance of getting analyzer pics up btw?
|
Hmm, by just looking at it. Is it not a problem if a terran gets a siege tank in position at the small choke? It feels so easy to do... haven't played a real game on it just checked it out.
|
On May 11 2012 07:53 JoeAWESOME wrote:
Hmm, by just looking at it. Is it not a problem if a terran gets a siege tank in position at the small choke? It feels so easy to do... haven't played a real game on it just checked it out.
i dont think so.
sure he can get a siege tank there but then what? all he can destroy is a geyser
|
I like the design. I'm a bit concerned that the small path is too much shorter than the long path, but it might not be a problem.
I think the biggest "issue" with the small pathways in maps is that in TvP, complete Terran armies (marine, marauder, ghost, medivac) can fit through the chokes but Protoss has to go around. It might be an interesting twist, but I don't really like it. I wish marauders were a tiny bit bigger 
[edit]
Back when we tried a similar feature on an early iCCup map, we tried put invincible DTs so that marines could fit but marauders couldn't. It didn't work haha.
|
Keep making maps man, love em so far. Just make sure they all get published in NA!
|
United States10154 Posts
amazing map. so beautifully done.
questioning the timing of a 6 pool by using that small backdoor.
|
I think it may be to narrow. If you control the watch tower you'll be very hard to break.
|
Morrow how are you so good at map making?
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I feel disadvantaged with FFE, you would have to wall against nexus because of the backdoor, leaving you much more vunerable to roach busts etc, or even something like the fast lair creep drop from overlords for spine crawlers, etc. It feels like game balance has evolved around a standard safe wall off, not against nexus, every map on ladder aside from metalopolis allows for such, but im not sure how to pull it off with this weird backdoor.
Perhaps you could place second pylon and cannon there, but vs 11pool on Shakuras for example you can barely get cannon and forge/gate/gate wall up in time to fend off lings, feels like they would walk straight through your backdoor and kill your cannon here, or something. Im not sure of the timings, not really sure of any timings, but it seems like a massive vunerability in FFE in general.
You may only need forge/gate/cannon to secure the main ramp, and a pylon or cannon to block off the backdoor, but id much rather FFE on other maps, dont even want to go into all of the shit that can happen with early pools, all ins and abusive drone control etc to block buildings
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 12 2012 10:07 Azaryah wrote:
Morrow how are you so good at map making?
Playing a game at a professional level tends to make you better at things like casting, map design and analysis.
|
The image linked is 1073x954
|
On May 12 2012 11:11 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:07 Azaryah wrote:
Morrow how are you so good at map making? Playing a game at a professional level tends to make you better at things like casting, map design and analysis.
I don't agree that it makes you a better map designer by just being a top level gamer, because some people just can't for the life of them make something up from scratch. I would say being a pro or a top level gamer makes you a better map design critic, but not necessarily a good designer, as you would know what types of maps are good or bad.
|
weird map.
as far as i can tell you need 2 pylons behind the minerals to block and only one drone/zergling can attack them.
a cannon on the high ground and the hatch goes down.maybe im to one dimensional but this looks very exploitable for me.
and you definitively can not defend a drop with zerglings but i guess thats not that big of deal.
its not a mainstream map i get it. but what exactly is the purpose of the bridge?
|
A pro player making a map? Awesome. I hope this gets tried out by other pros one way or another.
|
On May 12 2012 11:11 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:07 Azaryah wrote:
Morrow how are you so good at map making? Playing a game at a professional level tends to make you better at things like casting, map design and analysis.
But pro gamers don't yell enough. They are obviously bad casters.
|
I think its a great map.
My first instinct would be to say remove some of the stuff in the very middle, make that space more open.
but after looking closer I can see that the spaces to the north and south of the middle xel'naga does make 2 very large open spaces.
I like it because it has some vast openness.
Let the zerglings run freely at least one spot on the map.
|
There should be 500 hp mini rocks blocking the tiny passage into natural, too favored for ling runbys early on, and makes it much more difficult to expand as protoss
|
Weird map, in a good way though, gunna try it out in some customs tomorrow 
|
The 12 and 6 bases seem like a concession to the need for more than 4.5 bases per side, but they are just appendages hanging off an otherwise cohesive layout. I would really rather that the 4th base (not the 1/2 base) be rearranged to fill out more of the space in the corner, possibly by moving all that air space in towards the center of the map and relocating the 4th base to a more external location (in the corner). This would free up more space for the 5th base to be more than just a cul-de-sac, which along with the need for map control to defend it makes it almost a winner's base.
Other than that, nice job creating something that uses a cool oldschool concept in a way that actually integrates it with the play of the map. ^^
|
thanks morrow you're so skilled
|
Seems like a good map for Terran, the Third looks easy to take. Godd job!
|
Blizzard pls just hire this guy
|
Really like it. Don't know how it plays out... Seems like a narrow area that allows marines and not stuff that beats marines is really good for marines until siege mode is up, and then you need vision of that area though I could be misunderstanding it. By that same token though, forcefields seem really good there so I would only foresee a problem in early TvT and possibly ZvT... And maybe TvP or ZvP. But I'd have to see a game or two on it before being able to say that so all in all, love the looks of this very unique map.
|
I just played it and every unit was able to go through the backdoor entrance O_o
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6278/backdoor.jpg) Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Greetings.
|
I hope this map will be implemented in some tourneys, good job morrow!
|
Wow, more pro-players need to try map-making. Love it.
Concerned how easy it would be for zergling runbys. Can't really see a path for opponent to push without leaving their bases vulnurebale, but I like it! Maps need to have more variety!
|
What is the deal with tanks just across that little bridge? Are they able to hit your natural, cause stuff like that is annoying as shit
|
If the dead space behind bases is exactly like on the image, than it's great, you shouldn't be able to go around 3rd with drop, cause it's pretty far away to defend, but on the picture seems very good. Would play.
|
I guess if you didn't play it there are a lot of things to check, but I love it, nice job.
|
morrow play a game against someone on it and upload a replay
|
On May 12 2012 16:54 How2getMaster wrote:I just played it and every unit was able to go through the backdoor entrance O_o + Show Spoiler +Uploaded with ImageShack.us Greetings.
thanks it was working before but i probably screwed it up along the way. shouldnt be too hard to fix
On May 12 2012 19:30 callebo wrote:
Wow, more pro-players need to try map-making. Love it.
Concerned how easy it would be for zergling runbys. Can't really see a path for opponent to push without leaving their bases vulnurebale, but I like it! Maps need to have more variety!
again, 1 supply depot or 1 pylon can clog it off and only 1 zergling would be able to attack
|
Although I think that this could potentially work out to be a great tournament map, I don't see this map on ladder, at least not without Blizzard adding rocks, since that mini-choke in ZvZ would be devastating. You can't block it off so there's no stopping ling runbys or ninja banelings. Normally such banelings wouldn't be a problem in high level play since the players usually have great minimap awareness, hence why I think this concept can work in a tournament setting, but anyone below masters would have a real tough time with it.
|
On May 13 2012 04:30 PolskaGora wrote:
Although I think that this could potentially work out to be a great tournament map, I don't see this map on ladder, at least not without Blizzard adding rocks, since that mini-choke in ZvZ would be devastating. You can't block it off so there's no stopping ling runbys or ninja banelings. Normally such banelings wouldn't be a problem in high level play since the players usually have great minimap awareness, hence why I think this concept can work in a tournament setting, but anyone below masters would have a real tough time with it.
you can block it off
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mjbCA.png)
On May 12 2012 13:06 magicturtle wrote:
There should be 500 hp mini rocks blocking the tiny passage into natural, too favored for ling runbys early on, and makes it much more difficult to expand as protoss
the whole point of that passage is that it should be used in the early stages before too large armies grow
i dont see why its difficult for protoss to expand
by the way thanks so much for all the feedback so far, its been flowing on much more than i expected
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
i dont see why its difficult for protoss to expand
Walling against nexus makes you much more vunerable than otherwise in every way, one could argue superfast lair for creep drop and spine crawlers is a hard counter.
If you deny scouting and do it outside of his vision range he will die as you move finished spine crawlers a few meters onto new creep in range of his nexus and he has no time to prepare, if you do it right in his face i still dont know of a consistently good response to it. A void ray as fast as possible will not be enough to prevent nexus loss
|
On May 13 2012 05:40 Cyro wrote:Walling against nexus makes you much more vunerable than otherwise in every way, one could argue superfast lair for creep drop and spine crawlers is a hard counter. If you deny scouting and do it outside of his vision range he will die as you move finished spine crawlers a few meters onto new creep in range of his nexus and he has no time to prepare, if you do it right in his face i still dont know of a consistently good response to it. A void ray as fast as possible will not be enough to prevent nexus loss
walling against the nexus is something many protoss progamers prefer on maps like antiga where they can just as well wall by the large ramp.
the distance (for roaches) is a lot longer, the ramp is not as wide aswell as has rocks in it and the minerals are placed in better positions to defend by your nexus and theres even no space to run completely behind the minerals into the main base which works both on dual sight, antiga and metal.
there are alot of things that make walling by the nexus easier to defend than most maps. and walling by the ramp should be possible, im not sure if its easier or harder. id imagine it just being different
please dont turn down the map because you feel specific strategy is strong. thoughts like this must be avoided and thought through to some extents else we wouldnt see new ideas in maps.
point is, dont jump to conclusions on your own theories just point them out and we can discuss if its an issue.
2raxing for example was something that would be sick strong and i realized that about 1 hour later after publishing this map and that should be fixed now. but ffe makes perfect sense in my head so i feel i have to convince you the same because i really wish people didnt see that as an issue
but please keep the feedback coming if you got any concerns like the ffe and ill explain my thoughts on it
|
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On May 13 2012 07:06 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 05:40 Cyro wrote: i dont see why its difficult for protoss to expand Walling against nexus makes you much more vunerable than otherwise in every way, one could argue superfast lair for creep drop and spine crawlers is a hard counter. If you deny scouting and do it outside of his vision range he will die as you move finished spine crawlers a few meters onto new creep in range of his nexus and he has no time to prepare, if you do it right in his face i still dont know of a consistently good response to it. A void ray as fast as possible will not be enough to prevent nexus loss walling against the nexus is something many protoss progamers prefer on maps like antiga where they can just as well wall by the large ramp. the distance (for roaches) is a lot longer, the ramp is not as wide aswell as has rocks in it and the minerals are placed in better positions to defend by your nexus and theres even no space to run completely behind the minerals into the main base which works both on dual sight, antiga and metal. there are alot of things that make walling by the nexus easier to defend than most maps. and walling by the ramp should be possible, im not sure if its easier or harder. id imagine it just being different please dont turn down the map because you feel specific strategy is strong. thoughts like this must be avoided and thought through to some extents else we wouldnt see new ideas in maps. point is, dont jump to conclusions on your own theories just point them out and we can discuss if its an issue. 2raxing for example was something that would be sick strong and i realized that about 1 hour later after publishing this map and that should be fixed now. but ffe makes perfect sense in my head so i feel i have to convince you the same because i really wish people didnt see that as an issue but please keep the feedback coming if you got any concerns like the ffe and ill explain my thoughts on it
Thanks for the reply, i guess it could work.. Can you complete a wall from the bottom of the ramp with forge/gateway into your nexus like you can on Antiga though? It seems like that would affect balance a lot. On antiga you can scout cross on tournament maps and 15nex/forge and then place a single cannon that will defend the nexus from melee attacks from any side while protecting your forge/gate/ramp which makes the initial 4-6 lings much less of a problem. Nothing sucks more than having the first 6-8 lings get into your main somehow and having no way to kill them until a minute or so after your cyber core completes
|
Doing a show about this map tomorrow at 2pm PST on ign.com/ipl.
Going to look at the map features in-depth and then watch GoSu.Pokebunny play live on the map vs either another pro or maybe even some fans.
I also uploaded this map on NA for MorroW. Search for "Azura Bridge"
|
This maps looks very awesome since it is so unique, I just love originality I don't think the backdoor will pose much problems since only one unit can pass at a time, making runbys pretty slow and give time for defending. The only change I would do is to make it possible for a Zerg to block it off without needing to put down a creep tumor so defending all ins will be easier
What I would love is replays on this map, especially of you against other pros or actually against anyone so we can judge balance better without people playing it you can't tell if it is balanced
|
Not sure why Marauder and Viking land form can pass through "small" choke. arent viking, marauder and stalker all same size?
Other than that, looks like a great map. Just worried about AI bugging out, splitting armies unintentionally
|
On May 15 2012 06:25 DoA wrote:Doing a show about this map tomorrow at 2pm PST on ign.com/ipl. Going to look at the map features in-depth and then watch GoSu.Pokebunny play live on the map vs either another pro or maybe even some fans. I also uploaded this map on NA for MorroW. Search for "Azura Bridge"
Thanks Doa! You're the best
sry dub post
|
|
|
ye go ahead man !
|
On May 18 2012 04:13 MorroW wrote:ye go ahead man !
Wow you reply so fast thx
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/backdoor.jpg/)
