• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:03
CET 11:03
KST 19:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win1BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced14[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1389 users

[M] (2) ESV Brineclaw - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
February 03 2012 23:05 GMT
#41
On January 09 2012 05:03 Antares777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2012 04:57 a176 wrote:
So i have to ask a serious question.

Does ESV communicate at all when making maps? Or do you guys just make maps and add an ESV tag to them? Because this map here, and this map, and this map, and this map are basically all the same map. Yes yes, there are slight differences in the terrain and base positions, but lets be honest here, its not really enough to differentiate them all from each other.


What? I see some similarities, but those all play out very differently. Totally different maps.


Yeah, all but the first have a pretty different layout. There's only so much you can do with 2 spawn points (that we know of....) before you start making maps that have such an overwhelming advantage for a race.

With that being said, I do think that the OP map, and the first map listed by a176 are pretty similar, along with a few other 2p maps that have appeared recently. This is pretty common, not just in map making, but being creative in general. People have to let map makers make similar maps until they can refine the technique of a new layout until it becomes something different.

Think map making like writing music - at first you pretty much compose what you've heard until you have a grasp of all the techniques already being used. After that, you will start to see that your style of composing will start to differ from others, even those that influence you, because now you understand the technique.

It's kind of a hard concept to understand if you're not already someone who does map making, draws, composes music, or anything else at a deeper level than most, but in time, we will see this template of 2p maps disappear, and another one will take its place.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 04 2012 04:35 GMT
#42
On February 04 2012 06:14 EatThePath wrote:
I'm liking ulaan grunge + grass textures with the additional decorating.

So Gwen, I'm also working on a map with no towers, and I want to ask you if you feel you have to make special dispensation for that. How did it work out here? Does it favour one race over another? Depending on the builds maybe? Should SC2 maps always try to have towers, because the game is better with them, or is it just an option and we haven't well explored the choice not to use them? I'm looking for a general view on the issue to help me understand my own map better, and also a more specific answer about what it means on Brineclaw. I'm going to go watch replays now to see how the players position their armies and if they are scouting more actively to compensate for lack of towers. (This is the biggest thing I've noticed.)


A map with no towers is really hard to work with. Some feedback include (from memory):
"It feels as if the terran player disappears when they move out." (from a zerg perspective).

But that was the first zvt played on the map. I think it works out more or less evenly. Zerg gets to play overlords on top of cliffs and see drops earlier while terran can scan and kill the ovies much like in bw. Toss has observers which isn't too big of a deal but the pvp matchup on this match is something I want to keep an eye on because of the lack of scouting options available. Honestly if the map is done right, with paths that each have their own advantage and disadvantages, in this case having a safe attack route to the third vs being able to cut the third from the main / nat, then I don't think having no XWTs is that bad. SC2 player *may* be a bit spoiled from XWTs doing the scouting for them. This map plays like a bw map in terms of scouting.

As for what it means specifically on Brineclaw:
Zergs need to place their ovies on the cliffs carefully.
Terrans might want to spend energy snipe the ovies in order to make drops less detectable.
Toss has colossi and obersvers past the midgame so any ovies zerg has are going to be essentially dead.
Zerg needs to have lings EVERYWHERE (this is actually pretty damn cool and fun to play with).
Terran needs to use a bit more scans.
Toss observer options are a bit more powerful.

By all means watch the replays I'm sure you'll enjoy them.
ESV Mapmaking Team
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
February 04 2012 09:14 GMT
#43
This seems like an improved version of Daybreak that will encourage a little bit more early game aggression as opposed to 99% passive games, since the linear 3rd is more difficult to hold.

I like it - hope to see it in some tourneys.
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
TheOnlyNurSo
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany50 Posts
February 04 2012 10:38 GMT
#44
quite a nice map. I think this map has nothing very special, it looks like a "normal" map.
solid work!!
XenoX101
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia729 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 15:15:02
February 04 2012 15:08 GMT
#45
Have you had any difficulties with zerg armies being forcefielded out of their third base? The single space ramp seems like it would strongly play into that. It also seems like it would be very easy for a protoss to defend their third against roaches in the same way.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 04 2012 19:02 GMT
#46
On February 05 2012 00:08 XenoX101 wrote:
Have you had any difficulties with zerg armies being forcefielded out of their third base? The single space ramp seems like it would strongly play into that. It also seems like it would be very easy for a protoss to defend their third against roaches in the same way.


On the test game (replay is posted) the toss went for forge fe while z was the aggressive one. The other zvp played on the map didn't really touch on the issue too hard (as in strategies didn't revolve around abusing it) but it is a strong tactic on the map. It's balanced out a little because Z can place Ovies on the cliffs and see the toss army move out if they're good at spreading ovies and positioning their army.

Toss defending their third base with wall off and sentries (mutas might be a good option) is definitely a thing (it happens in the replay posted) but zerg has more mobility and can sometimes catch the toss off guard. A lot of the map revolves around strategic positioning and a flanking. If the third is being abused too hard I'll make some changes but I need to get in some more games first. If you have time give it a try and tell me what you think.
ESV Mapmaking Team
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 08 2012 02:24 GMT
#47
After some feedback the choke created by the third and central base has been widened by one hex:
[image loading]
ESV Mapmaking Team
ntssauce
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany750 Posts
February 08 2012 10:35 GMT
#48
i think it's rally good but somehow i think the xel naga towers are kind of useless ^^!
MMA and Alive you are the best! | Goodbye ST_Sound ~
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 16 2012 05:53 GMT
#49
On February 08 2012 19:35 ntssauce wrote:
i think it's rally good but somehow i think the xel naga towers are kind of useless ^^!

You mean adding XWTs won't add anything to the map or that the map's nonexistent towers are making it better?
ESV Mapmaking Team
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
February 16 2012 12:59 GMT
#50
I like the map a lot. It looks a bit 2 basey to me especially for protoss. But that's not necessarily the end of the world. Cloud Kingdom's a bit like that too, not quite as much though. I don't think these layouts are unoriginal and while lots of maps look similar, minor differences can be significant balance wise. Keep up the great work. I'll play this next time I custom.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
DanishViking
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark9 Posts
February 16 2012 13:50 GMT
#51
Looks amazing.
Dont love anything else then your computer, everything else can betray you<3
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
2025 KFC Monthly #3 - Day 4
CranKy Ducklings119
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Fuzer 126
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34026
Calm 4229
Larva 856
actioN 426
Stork 312
Zeus 311
Soma 284
Mini 272
Pusan 217
BeSt 190
[ Show more ]
PianO 153
Killer 100
JulyZerg 85
Dewaltoss 79
Shinee 55
Light 42
Hyun 40
Sharp 37
ggaemo 30
soO 29
Bale 25
Noble 16
Sacsri 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Terrorterran 11
SilentControl 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 578
XcaliburYe147
League of Legends
JimRising 445
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1276
shoxiejesuss600
Other Games
summit1g18375
ceh9585
Mew2King97
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick911
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 42
• StrangeGG 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1650
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 58m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 58m
StarCraft2.fi
6h 58m
Replay Cast
13h 58m
Wardi Open
1d 1h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 6h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 14h
Wardi Open
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo League
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-28
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.