• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:42
CEST 12:42
KST 19:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202617Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Fantasy returning? GG Lan Fest Sofia, Bulgaria [this November] Sagi.gg Launcher Released ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9062 users

[M] (2) ESV Brineclaw - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
February 03 2012 23:05 GMT
#41
On January 09 2012 05:03 Antares777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2012 04:57 a176 wrote:
So i have to ask a serious question.

Does ESV communicate at all when making maps? Or do you guys just make maps and add an ESV tag to them? Because this map here, and this map, and this map, and this map are basically all the same map. Yes yes, there are slight differences in the terrain and base positions, but lets be honest here, its not really enough to differentiate them all from each other.


What? I see some similarities, but those all play out very differently. Totally different maps.


Yeah, all but the first have a pretty different layout. There's only so much you can do with 2 spawn points (that we know of....) before you start making maps that have such an overwhelming advantage for a race.

With that being said, I do think that the OP map, and the first map listed by a176 are pretty similar, along with a few other 2p maps that have appeared recently. This is pretty common, not just in map making, but being creative in general. People have to let map makers make similar maps until they can refine the technique of a new layout until it becomes something different.

Think map making like writing music - at first you pretty much compose what you've heard until you have a grasp of all the techniques already being used. After that, you will start to see that your style of composing will start to differ from others, even those that influence you, because now you understand the technique.

It's kind of a hard concept to understand if you're not already someone who does map making, draws, composes music, or anything else at a deeper level than most, but in time, we will see this template of 2p maps disappear, and another one will take its place.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 04 2012 04:35 GMT
#42
On February 04 2012 06:14 EatThePath wrote:
I'm liking ulaan grunge + grass textures with the additional decorating.

So Gwen, I'm also working on a map with no towers, and I want to ask you if you feel you have to make special dispensation for that. How did it work out here? Does it favour one race over another? Depending on the builds maybe? Should SC2 maps always try to have towers, because the game is better with them, or is it just an option and we haven't well explored the choice not to use them? I'm looking for a general view on the issue to help me understand my own map better, and also a more specific answer about what it means on Brineclaw. I'm going to go watch replays now to see how the players position their armies and if they are scouting more actively to compensate for lack of towers. (This is the biggest thing I've noticed.)


A map with no towers is really hard to work with. Some feedback include (from memory):
"It feels as if the terran player disappears when they move out." (from a zerg perspective).

But that was the first zvt played on the map. I think it works out more or less evenly. Zerg gets to play overlords on top of cliffs and see drops earlier while terran can scan and kill the ovies much like in bw. Toss has observers which isn't too big of a deal but the pvp matchup on this match is something I want to keep an eye on because of the lack of scouting options available. Honestly if the map is done right, with paths that each have their own advantage and disadvantages, in this case having a safe attack route to the third vs being able to cut the third from the main / nat, then I don't think having no XWTs is that bad. SC2 player *may* be a bit spoiled from XWTs doing the scouting for them. This map plays like a bw map in terms of scouting.

As for what it means specifically on Brineclaw:
Zergs need to place their ovies on the cliffs carefully.
Terrans might want to spend energy snipe the ovies in order to make drops less detectable.
Toss has colossi and obersvers past the midgame so any ovies zerg has are going to be essentially dead.
Zerg needs to have lings EVERYWHERE (this is actually pretty damn cool and fun to play with).
Terran needs to use a bit more scans.
Toss observer options are a bit more powerful.

By all means watch the replays I'm sure you'll enjoy them.
ESV Mapmaking Team
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
February 04 2012 09:14 GMT
#43
This seems like an improved version of Daybreak that will encourage a little bit more early game aggression as opposed to 99% passive games, since the linear 3rd is more difficult to hold.

I like it - hope to see it in some tourneys.
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
TheOnlyNurSo
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany50 Posts
February 04 2012 10:38 GMT
#44
quite a nice map. I think this map has nothing very special, it looks like a "normal" map.
solid work!!
XenoX101
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia729 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 15:15:02
February 04 2012 15:08 GMT
#45
Have you had any difficulties with zerg armies being forcefielded out of their third base? The single space ramp seems like it would strongly play into that. It also seems like it would be very easy for a protoss to defend their third against roaches in the same way.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 04 2012 19:02 GMT
#46
On February 05 2012 00:08 XenoX101 wrote:
Have you had any difficulties with zerg armies being forcefielded out of their third base? The single space ramp seems like it would strongly play into that. It also seems like it would be very easy for a protoss to defend their third against roaches in the same way.


On the test game (replay is posted) the toss went for forge fe while z was the aggressive one. The other zvp played on the map didn't really touch on the issue too hard (as in strategies didn't revolve around abusing it) but it is a strong tactic on the map. It's balanced out a little because Z can place Ovies on the cliffs and see the toss army move out if they're good at spreading ovies and positioning their army.

Toss defending their third base with wall off and sentries (mutas might be a good option) is definitely a thing (it happens in the replay posted) but zerg has more mobility and can sometimes catch the toss off guard. A lot of the map revolves around strategic positioning and a flanking. If the third is being abused too hard I'll make some changes but I need to get in some more games first. If you have time give it a try and tell me what you think.
ESV Mapmaking Team
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 08 2012 02:24 GMT
#47
After some feedback the choke created by the third and central base has been widened by one hex:
[image loading]
ESV Mapmaking Team
ntssauce
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany750 Posts
February 08 2012 10:35 GMT
#48
i think it's rally good but somehow i think the xel naga towers are kind of useless ^^!
MMA and Alive you are the best! | Goodbye ST_Sound ~
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 16 2012 05:53 GMT
#49
On February 08 2012 19:35 ntssauce wrote:
i think it's rally good but somehow i think the xel naga towers are kind of useless ^^!

You mean adding XWTs won't add anything to the map or that the map's nonexistent towers are making it better?
ESV Mapmaking Team
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
February 16 2012 12:59 GMT
#50
I like the map a lot. It looks a bit 2 basey to me especially for protoss. But that's not necessarily the end of the world. Cloud Kingdom's a bit like that too, not quite as much though. I don't think these layouts are unoriginal and while lots of maps look similar, minor differences can be significant balance wise. Keep up the great work. I'll play this next time I custom.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
DanishViking
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark9 Posts
February 16 2012 13:50 GMT
#51
Looks amazing.
Dont love anything else then your computer, everything else can betray you<3
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko188
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27773
Calm 4288
Rain 2683
Hyuk 1501
Bisu 863
FanTaSy 644
Horang2 492
Jaedong 307
Soma 304
Rush 252
[ Show more ]
BeSt 244
Zeus 240
Stork 194
Mong 186
Mini 92
Larva 82
Mind 79
Pusan 70
ZerO 70
Light 62
Barracks 53
Sexy 49
ToSsGirL 47
910 42
Killer 39
Shinee 33
NaDa 30
Yoon 26
Free 20
sorry 19
Hm[arnc] 15
Noble 14
Terrorterran 14
Snow 13
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5618
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1116
byalli822
shoxiejesuss539
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King71
Other Games
gofns48943
singsing1499
dupreeh326
crisheroes260
ZerO(Twitch)4
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1829
• Stunt352
Other Games
• WagamamaTV33
Upcoming Events
OSC
12h 18m
Big Brain Bouts
23h 18m
Rex vs INexorable
GgMaChine vs HeRoMaRinE
Reynor vs herO
AI Arena Tournament
1d 6h
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
Patches Events
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-08
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.