• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:34
CEST 04:34
KST 11:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)5Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE12Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"9
StarCraft 2
General
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Terran or Protoss
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Star Con San Diego 2026
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5200 users

[M] (2) ESV Brineclaw - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
February 03 2012 23:05 GMT
#41
On January 09 2012 05:03 Antares777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2012 04:57 a176 wrote:
So i have to ask a serious question.

Does ESV communicate at all when making maps? Or do you guys just make maps and add an ESV tag to them? Because this map here, and this map, and this map, and this map are basically all the same map. Yes yes, there are slight differences in the terrain and base positions, but lets be honest here, its not really enough to differentiate them all from each other.


What? I see some similarities, but those all play out very differently. Totally different maps.


Yeah, all but the first have a pretty different layout. There's only so much you can do with 2 spawn points (that we know of....) before you start making maps that have such an overwhelming advantage for a race.

With that being said, I do think that the OP map, and the first map listed by a176 are pretty similar, along with a few other 2p maps that have appeared recently. This is pretty common, not just in map making, but being creative in general. People have to let map makers make similar maps until they can refine the technique of a new layout until it becomes something different.

Think map making like writing music - at first you pretty much compose what you've heard until you have a grasp of all the techniques already being used. After that, you will start to see that your style of composing will start to differ from others, even those that influence you, because now you understand the technique.

It's kind of a hard concept to understand if you're not already someone who does map making, draws, composes music, or anything else at a deeper level than most, but in time, we will see this template of 2p maps disappear, and another one will take its place.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 04 2012 04:35 GMT
#42
On February 04 2012 06:14 EatThePath wrote:
I'm liking ulaan grunge + grass textures with the additional decorating.

So Gwen, I'm also working on a map with no towers, and I want to ask you if you feel you have to make special dispensation for that. How did it work out here? Does it favour one race over another? Depending on the builds maybe? Should SC2 maps always try to have towers, because the game is better with them, or is it just an option and we haven't well explored the choice not to use them? I'm looking for a general view on the issue to help me understand my own map better, and also a more specific answer about what it means on Brineclaw. I'm going to go watch replays now to see how the players position their armies and if they are scouting more actively to compensate for lack of towers. (This is the biggest thing I've noticed.)


A map with no towers is really hard to work with. Some feedback include (from memory):
"It feels as if the terran player disappears when they move out." (from a zerg perspective).

But that was the first zvt played on the map. I think it works out more or less evenly. Zerg gets to play overlords on top of cliffs and see drops earlier while terran can scan and kill the ovies much like in bw. Toss has observers which isn't too big of a deal but the pvp matchup on this match is something I want to keep an eye on because of the lack of scouting options available. Honestly if the map is done right, with paths that each have their own advantage and disadvantages, in this case having a safe attack route to the third vs being able to cut the third from the main / nat, then I don't think having no XWTs is that bad. SC2 player *may* be a bit spoiled from XWTs doing the scouting for them. This map plays like a bw map in terms of scouting.

As for what it means specifically on Brineclaw:
Zergs need to place their ovies on the cliffs carefully.
Terrans might want to spend energy snipe the ovies in order to make drops less detectable.
Toss has colossi and obersvers past the midgame so any ovies zerg has are going to be essentially dead.
Zerg needs to have lings EVERYWHERE (this is actually pretty damn cool and fun to play with).
Terran needs to use a bit more scans.
Toss observer options are a bit more powerful.

By all means watch the replays I'm sure you'll enjoy them.
ESV Mapmaking Team
yakitate304
Profile Joined April 2009
United States655 Posts
February 04 2012 09:14 GMT
#43
This seems like an improved version of Daybreak that will encourage a little bit more early game aggression as opposed to 99% passive games, since the linear 3rd is more difficult to hold.

I like it - hope to see it in some tourneys.
Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft
TheOnlyNurSo
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany50 Posts
February 04 2012 10:38 GMT
#44
quite a nice map. I think this map has nothing very special, it looks like a "normal" map.
solid work!!
XenoX101
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia729 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-04 15:15:02
February 04 2012 15:08 GMT
#45
Have you had any difficulties with zerg armies being forcefielded out of their third base? The single space ramp seems like it would strongly play into that. It also seems like it would be very easy for a protoss to defend their third against roaches in the same way.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 04 2012 19:02 GMT
#46
On February 05 2012 00:08 XenoX101 wrote:
Have you had any difficulties with zerg armies being forcefielded out of their third base? The single space ramp seems like it would strongly play into that. It also seems like it would be very easy for a protoss to defend their third against roaches in the same way.


On the test game (replay is posted) the toss went for forge fe while z was the aggressive one. The other zvp played on the map didn't really touch on the issue too hard (as in strategies didn't revolve around abusing it) but it is a strong tactic on the map. It's balanced out a little because Z can place Ovies on the cliffs and see the toss army move out if they're good at spreading ovies and positioning their army.

Toss defending their third base with wall off and sentries (mutas might be a good option) is definitely a thing (it happens in the replay posted) but zerg has more mobility and can sometimes catch the toss off guard. A lot of the map revolves around strategic positioning and a flanking. If the third is being abused too hard I'll make some changes but I need to get in some more games first. If you have time give it a try and tell me what you think.
ESV Mapmaking Team
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 08 2012 02:24 GMT
#47
After some feedback the choke created by the third and central base has been widened by one hex:
[image loading]
ESV Mapmaking Team
ntssauce
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany750 Posts
February 08 2012 10:35 GMT
#48
i think it's rally good but somehow i think the xel naga towers are kind of useless ^^!
MMA and Alive you are the best! | Goodbye ST_Sound ~
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
February 16 2012 05:53 GMT
#49
On February 08 2012 19:35 ntssauce wrote:
i think it's rally good but somehow i think the xel naga towers are kind of useless ^^!

You mean adding XWTs won't add anything to the map or that the map's nonexistent towers are making it better?
ESV Mapmaking Team
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
February 16 2012 12:59 GMT
#50
I like the map a lot. It looks a bit 2 basey to me especially for protoss. But that's not necessarily the end of the world. Cloud Kingdom's a bit like that too, not quite as much though. I don't think these layouts are unoriginal and while lots of maps look similar, minor differences can be significant balance wise. Keep up the great work. I'll play this next time I custom.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
DanishViking
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark9 Posts
February 16 2012 13:50 GMT
#51
Looks amazing.
Dont love anything else then your computer, everything else can betray you<3
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Crank Gathers S4: Playoffs
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
18:30
Mid Season Playoffs
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
FoxeR 75
Nina 67
CosmosSc2 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5856
GuemChi 3665
Calm 958
Artosis 623
Bale 98
Noble 25
Counter-Strike
summit1g12274
taco 328
minikerr257
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King115
Other Games
gofns11614
tarik_tv8934
Coldzera 1119
C9.Mang0395
PiGStarcraft365
Maynarde146
ToD129
NeuroSwarm80
ROOTCatZ74
ViBE65
JuggernautJason23
Temp015
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• EnkiAlexander 70
• davetesta17
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21357
League of Legends
• Scarra1729
• Lourlo299
• Stunt225
Upcoming Events
Escore
7h 26m
CrankTV Team League
8h 26m
Big Brain Bouts
13h 26m
Spirit vs sOs
GgMaChine vs Percival
Serral vs MaxPax
OSC
19h 56m
Replay Cast
21h 26m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 6h
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 8h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-29
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Escore Tournament S3: W5
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSLAN 4
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.