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Since there is always the debate for Blizzard maps, let's get some community feedback:
Poll: Should this map have forced spawns?No, random spawns only (207) 77% Yes, cross positions only (61) 23% 268 total votes Your vote: Should this map have forced spawns? (Vote): Yes, cross positions only
(Vote): No, random spawns only
Personally I believe that this map (after the changes made to the third base) is perfectly fine with the random spawns and the destructible debris on the third base. Chime in!
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Wow you're allowed to do that?^^
Nice changes, although I'd have preferred to just not seeing any of the Blizzard maps in tournaments at all 
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On August 14 2011 04:29 FlopTurnReaver wrote:Wow you're allowed to do that?^^ Nice changes, although I'd have preferred to just not seeing any of the Blizzard maps in tournaments at all
I would too, but I'd hate it even more to see a broken version of a ladder map used. Hopefully this helps to dissolve that 8)
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This looks awesome, glad to see that positional part fixed, and I am always down for aesthetic improvements on maps ^^
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True true. How bout you fix Searing Crater next? 
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On August 14 2011 04:33 FlopTurnReaver wrote:True true. How bout you fix Searing Crater next?
I chose Antiga Prime of the new ladder maps because I feel like it's the most tournament worthy of the four and I've seen a lot of support for the map being used in tournaments and leagues across the tubes. At first I was like "omfg no u idiets teh map is ba-roh-ken!!111" but I eventually pulled my head out of my ass and realized that I can fix it easily.
Searing Crater on the other hand I don't feel is tournament worthy at all and personally was a day-one veto 
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Looks good. Hopefully tournaments decide to use custom maps instead of Blizzard maps, but if they do, they should use this!
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I must say those red doodads that you placed near the gold mineral bases are sick and wicked baller.
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your Country52797 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:36 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 04:33 FlopTurnReaver wrote:True true. How bout you fix Searing Crater next? I chose Antiga Prime of the new ladder maps because I feel like it's the most tournament worthy of the four and I've seen a lot of support for the map being used in tournaments and leagues across the tubes. At first I was like "omfg no u idiets teh map is ba-roh-ken!!111" but I eventually pulled my head out of my ass and realized that I can fix it easily. Searing Crater on the other hand I don't feel is tournament worthy at all and personally was a day-one veto
My team of mapmakers (Composed of me, me and me) are working endlessly to fix searing crater. We (I) have almost come up with a solution
Edit: It involves turning the map into Crevasse.
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Very good job, but I'd like it if you'd fix the siege tank drop ledges in the mains. I understand that they are meant to help reapers, but putting a ramp on one side of them (either down from the main or up from the ground) would let reapers jump up the cliffs while allowing lings to access the ledges so siege tanks can't be dropped there.
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On August 14 2011 06:02 Mullet_Ben wrote:
Very good job, but I'd like it if you'd fix the siege tank drop ledges in the mains. I understand that they are meant to help reapers, but putting a ramp on one side of them (either down from the main or up from the ground) would let reapers jump up the cliffs while allowing lings to access the ledges so siege tanks can't be dropped there.
Is this a significant problem? I've never seen anyone use it for that, hmm
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On August 14 2011 06:04 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 06:02 Mullet_Ben wrote:
Very good job, but I'd like it if you'd fix the siege tank drop ledges in the mains. I understand that they are meant to help reapers, but putting a ramp on one side of them (either down from the main or up from the ground) would let reapers jump up the cliffs while allowing lings to access the ledges so siege tanks can't be dropped there. Is this a significant problem? I've never seen anyone use it for that, hmm
It is a problem, but I think it's changing the map too much to do that. I like the small changes, but adding a ramp somewhere is a bit too far I think.
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On August 14 2011 06:02 Mullet_Ben wrote:
Very good job, but I'd like it if you'd fix the siege tank drop ledges in the mains. I understand that they are meant to help reapers, but putting a ramp on one side of them (either down from the main or up from the ground) would let reapers jump up the cliffs while allowing lings to access the ledges so siege tanks can't be dropped there.
I don't really see that much of a problem with the tank ledge. Sure it might be annoying, but it's in no way game-breaking... If you have mutas, there's really nothing that can defend the ledge properly. If it's late game with a good deal of mech and they have their army positioned on the low ground to protect their tanks, neurals on the tanks with infesters from the main would make for a very unhappy Terran ground army on the low ground.
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u missed something.
right bottom third...the distance beetween the third and the other main is too close.
all other spots are correct
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you guys really gotta stop with the whole fixing blizzard maps thing.
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What about the little cliff thing for tanks by the main and both golds seizable by the tower? Do those need fixing too?
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Did you fix the bottom right spawn 3rd to natural pylon exploit?
Pic here:
+ Show Spoiler +
On the other bases, the pylon can't reach into the natural.
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Wow, this does look good. I have to give it a shot, but overall I think that this should be done more often. The Blizz maps I think are overall sometimes interesting, but they need the bugs fixed and the some good textures, so thanks for the effort.
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Well go ahead, shrink the mainbase a bit and replace the backdoor with an expansion on Blistering Sands and you got yourself the best map by Blizzard ever.
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I love this map, I'm glad the siege thing has been fixed. =D
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On August 14 2011 04:33 FlopTurnReaver wrote:True true. How bout you fix Searing Crater next?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254290#1
I took a crack at it, more major than widening a gap, but I think it turned out rather well.
On August 14 2011 04:36 prodiG wrote:
I chose Antiga Prime
Not the first time it's been called that oddly enough.
I like the small touches here and there, especially the super ultra radical baller doodads and the broken pipe. Fixing the mains and thirds is just a bonus I think.
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Tested, glad to see the siege tank fire is fixed! No more getting my expansions owned by siege drops. Would be sweet if tournaments began using this map, it's fairly decent.
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I really hope this gets used, any news on who's picking this up? Hopefully NASL S2 uses this, and GSL puts the depot on the other side ramp so you can FFE T_T
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On August 14 2011 08:22 WniO wrote:
you guys really gotta stop with the whole fixing blizzard maps thing.
If we don't just do it now eventually we will get one of the major tourney organizers asking us to fix it for them, just is just being a step ahead.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
You need to add rocks prodiG :p
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I agree that this is the best out of the 4 new maps, proportions are good and aesthetics are nice when compared to other newer Blizzard maps.
I still absolutely don't like this map without cross spawns tho: When you spawn with your blocked ramp at the third towards the gold it's way way easier to take the gold as a central fourth, which is really good for toss and especially terran (like the xel'naga caverns gold).
So imho in certain matchups in certain spawning positions it favors the player who spawns lower left/upper right to much while there is -nothing- that lower right/upper left gets in return.
One should be really careful about mixing rotational symmetry with a mirrored middle cause it doubles the amount of spawn possiblities and makes it that much harder to balance everything correctly. Imo this map doesn't do it right, so without forced cross spawn I will consider it a so-so map that we have to use cause of Blizzard's stupidity.
I'm quite radical when it comes to discussing Blizz maps atm. Imo we should just let them be stupid and fail so tournaments switch to good (custom) maps faster.
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On August 14 2011 20:08 Ragoo wrote:
One should be really careful about mixing rotational symmetry with a mirrored middle cause it doubles the amount of spawn possiblities and makes it that much harder to balance everything correctly. Imo this map doesn't do it right, so without forced cross spawn I will consider it a so-so map that we have to use cause of Blizzard's stupidity.
having a rotational symmetry without fixed spawns creates an immbalance that is for sure. even worse though are central bases that are purely winner's bases which can not be taken at the same time by both players.
winner's bases might be okay as a singular base, you have map control > you get the gold > you win, but adding two golds that are really difficult to hold for various setups (TvZ) create further imbalances.
conclusion for me is that mixing two symmetries in the centre is not that bad actually, but having bad base setups there makes it worse.
on the changes: i think it is good, but nothing big gameplaywise. I'd love to see bigger changes to blizzard's maps. we might see this in an upcoming mapping challenge.
aesthetically a very well made map now. small and nice details and extra touches that make it so much better.
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Slightly off-topic question. I attempted to apply the discount code on the SteelSeries website after picking the corresponding products (both international and North America) yet it didn't work  any reason this would be?
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When the map first came out the first thing i did was make a custom by myself and check the forge fast expand sim city for each of the locations, and i found that if a protoss spawns in the top right position of the map it is harder to do a forge fast expand because there is an extra build grid hex between the natural nexus and the gate&forge wall, and you are forced to hold position a zealot there, or use a pylon or cannon to seal the wall.
in the other 3 locations this is not the case, and a protoss is able to do a tight walloff with a nexus forge and gateway, with a pylon powering from behind.
im wondering if u could (if u havnt already) change the top right position somehow so that it matches with the other 3 locations.
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please add more air gap to bottom and right side of the map to allow overlord saving, as the other sides can be saved ( > v east & north ) at the edges
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On August 14 2011 21:22 CSN_Kaelaris wrote:Slightly off-topic question. I attempted to apply the discount code on the SteelSeries website after picking the corresponding products (both international and North America) yet it didn't work any reason this would be?
I was asked to remove it because for some reason it doesn't work. Hopefully we can get that sorted out
On August 14 2011 23:56 TibblesEvilCat wrote:
please add more air gap to bottom and right side of the map to allow overlord saving, as the other sides can be saved ( > v east & north ) at the edges
I made the sides symmetrical
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Blizzard, can't you just get prodiG to make your maps for you in the first place?
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can i see the new overview?
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On August 15 2011 01:19 Mereel wrote:
can i see the new overview?
it's in the OP.... :/
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VTIRF.jpg)
thats still wrong
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Tanks can still siege over the gap, they just can't hit resource buildings. I tested that spot for pylons and it looked okay, other than the slight difference in size what's the issue?
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Can you still put infested terrans in the other guys main base from the 3rd?
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I actually like this map (the original), so removing possible tank abuse is good ^^
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On August 14 2011 04:33 FlopTurnReaver wrote:True true. How bout you fix Searing Crater next?
I'm fairly certain that that is impossible even for somebody as talented as prodiG to make that map playable. Who knows though, great job with Antiga!
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This looks amazing, and I wouldn't have commented except for the poll.
I put forced cross, and I would like to discuss why. It seems to me, regardless of the tanks-hitting-gas being changed, other abuse of that terrain is possible in closeR positions. like if both players are on 1 side of the map. As a Zerg player, my mutas can harass, then go defend my third no problem, and as I'm expanding away from the enemy, my expansions are safer, and the game is going to favor me in the long run. As a Terran player (for fun, been told I'm a better Terran than Zerg, but haven't tested it on the ladder) I don't like closeR positions because it seems to limit options I have of expanding, even to my third (against Zerg). It stretches me too thin while allowing the Zerg (specifically) to expand aggressively, and I can't do much about it. So to me, forced cross spawns would actually increase the map's balance by making players expand INTO each other, which, while is more Terran favored out of the two POVs I'm exploring here, it also means that the Terran cannot be spread so thinly potentially early in the game with harassment. This gives the Terran a greater chance in the long run to actually play a straight up macro game, and it gives the Zerg the same option, but without the ability to abuse certain map features.
All of this is my opinion and from experience, I have like a 70% win rate on this map specifically on ladder.
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thanks to your map changes and pointing it out now i can be ever so careful about those terran and their siege tanks on the ladder!!
But overall nicely done i'll look forward to seeing this being played in tournaments.
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I really liked the cliff abuse though =(
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Sc2 community, solving everything. GJ PROD!!!!
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Looks really great. It's nice to see you doing what you can to fix Blizzard's maps.
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like GSL, no side spawn maybe ?
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On September 12 2011 03:07 tQWannaBe wrote:
like GSL, no side spawn maybe ?
i would make 2 player maps then, more place to make the map awesome .
And some call it fixing I call it taking out innovation ideas made by blizzard (some are good some are terribad, but i dislike that they are considered terribad right from the start x3). Though I agree that you are right with antiga having the highest chance to make it into tournaments. And with that ledge i guess it would make for quiet boring games, so it was a good move to fix it before it messes up tournaments.
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I like it, I feel like there should be more of this conversation with Blizz. I think when they make a map the aim for aesthetically pleasing before tactically viable.
Regardless! Thank you for going through and reworking the maps to make them 'balanced'!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NccY5.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dxOPH.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AfVAn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WzD65.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yYMJP.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FPduA.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4Q1Ik.jpg)
I also wanted to make the Tournament Edition visibly different from the original.![[image loading]](http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/Liukang121/aspe.png)
