EPTMap of the Month #7 - Page 11
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lefix
Germany1082 Posts
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
Green Harvast seems like it'll be a crossfire 2.0 just because of how choked off all of the attack paths are. You are forced to expand toward the middle of the map which turns into the biggest choke point is a 3 wide ramp. If the enemy is pushing into your natural they'll be fighting at a 2 wide ramp, or a 9x3 long corridor. Doing almost any kind of counter attacks on this map are completely shut down by all the destructible gates though. The extra gasses seem really gimmicky as well if you spawn in horizontal or verticle positions what's stopping a push thru those tiny bridges while hugging the wall & elevator up into the main base. I think too many people just say "Oh, it's Prodig Jr. of texturing" and kind of overlook the balance aspect this map, which even Johannaz said himself, is very very gimmicky. Is it just me or are Antiga Prime & Monsoon Valley the same map? First 3 bases are basically the same. Could even say the 4th and 5th are the same. Middle is open. Even textures are a little similar. I think if IronMan put water on his lowground middle I couldn't tell the difference. I know I know, they are different but the base layout is extremely similar, just kinda weird both maps would get a top 5 spot even though they are so similar. I thought we wanted variety here so we can see how different maps play out. No disrespect towards Nullcurrent or IronMan as both are top map makings, I just dislike how close these two maps and it takes a spot from some other unique map. Hell, I'm even hosting Monsoon Valley on US because I asked Nullcurrent if I could because I do like the map. It doesn't change the fact that 2 of the top 5 maps are identical.  Odyssey I still agree with what Monitor said. I think there needs a base right next to the main. Overall, easily top material. Core Delta is also quite legit, I swear he's been tweaking that map for many months now. Overall, easily top material. ps. I'll post my scores when I get them. Damn you igrok, come back online! | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On July 11 2011 03:50 SidianTheBard wrote: Is it just me or are Antiga Prime & Monsoon Valley the same map? Well, I discussed the center of Antiga Prime with IronManSC and helped him with my opinion of various drastic changes, because the old middle didn't really work. I guess my earlier work on Monsoon Valley influenced me more than I thought in that discussion About TPW: The MotM judges did not know about TPW before the maps were submitted, nor did we relay any information related to TPW except for the name to a few select people who asked. So from my point of view the accusations of bias towards TPW is completely unfounded. | ||
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SmashHammer
United States148 Posts
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Archvil3
Denmark989 Posts
On July 11 2011 04:43 WniO wrote: oh and apparently shitting all over the map with tree doodads is just as good as spending 25+ hours on one. ill make sure to do taht next time. How about we quit the "I'm about to hit puberty and really hate my parents-attitude" and start acting with a bit of dignity? Not only do you cry about the MOTM judges you take a shit on the winning maps and map makers while you are at it. Does it really feel that bad to lose? | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
First off, I submitted it and looked at all the other maps and literally thought I didn't stand a chance. Even other TPW maps beat mine by far. I did not expect to make it. Secondly, when I did make the top 5, I realized it took me 3 attempts at MOTM to actually barely win something. More so, I do NOT expect it to win out of the top finalists. Don't think even for a second that we are some badass group who knew we were gonna win. Want to know the truth? We all talked and said "at least one of us will make us, we do know that" We were not expecting to see all of us in it because we felt it wouldn't be fair to the community. Now, iGrok and the pro mapmaker, LSPrime are great people with high amounts of respect. These guys know map-making, and they've run contests before. They know what they're doing, and what they've said about TPW is true and admirable. | ||
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funcmode
Australia720 Posts
On July 11 2011 04:55 Archvil3 wrote: How about we quit the "I'm about to hit puberty and really hate my parents-attitude" and start acting with a bit of dignity? Not only do you cry about the MOTM judges you take a shit on the winning maps and map makers while you are at it. Does it really feel that bad to lose? Honestly, if you genuinely think your map was better than one or more of the winners, it can feel pretty bad to lose. People spend lots of time on these submissions, and seeing your work dismissed in favour of something you think is inferior can be quite heartbreaking. I don't blame WniO for feeling the way that he does, though I agree it might benefit him to be a bit more tact. | ||
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prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
On July 11 2011 04:43 WniO wrote: oh and apparently shitting all over the map with tree doodads is just as good as spending 25+ hours on one. ill make sure to do taht next time. Grow the fuck up. I can understand being frustrated because you didn't get the results you wanted, but there's more to a map than trees. I've thrown 60+ hours into a map only to have it not work out at all and have it axed and discarded entirely. That's the way these things work. On July 11 2011 02:36 lefix wrote: smashhammer has a good point. with more and more mapmakers teaming up, it might be better to rethink the guestjudge position. a team member judging his own teams submissions sounds controversal :D I judged MotM for awhile across many submissions from the iCCup Mapmaking Team that did not make the top 5. I won't deny that my opinions may have been biased, but having four or five other mapmakers and judges on the team can serve to negate that pretty quickly. I don't think it's a problem at all. Congrats to the winners~ (time to go back in the thread and find out who they were!) TPW swept the finals because they all had aesthetically polished maps with superb proportions and a measure of originality. This couldn't be more true. Instead of screaming bias and unfairness, try stepping your game up a little. On July 11 2011 02:22 WniO wrote: what a fucking joke if you arent going to use the scores than why even bother with that I explain this in almost every MotM thread, even though I'm not a judge anymore... The scores serve as a filter to divide the good from the bad; and to force the judges to examine crucial aspects of each map under the microscope to facilitate the judging process and help to form their opinion. When meeting time comes around, the judges can look at the highest scoring maps and work their way down from there to easily determine which maps belong in the top 5 and which ones simply don't deserve to make the cut. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
On July 11 2011 05:24 prodiG wrote: Grow the fuck up. I can understand being frustrated because you didn't get the results you wanted, but there's more to a map than trees. I've thrown 60+ hours into a map only to have it not work out at all and have it axed and discarded entirely. That's the way these things work. I judged MotM for awhile across many submissions from the iCCup Mapmaking Team that did not make the top 5. I won't deny that my opinions may have been biased, but having four or five other mapmakers and judges on the team can serve to negate that pretty quickly. I don't think it's a problem at all. Congrats to the winners~ (time to go back in the thread and find out who they were!) This couldn't be more true. Instead of screaming bias and unfairness, try stepping your game up a little. I explain this in almost every MotM thread, even though I'm not a judge anymore... The scores serve as a filter to divide the good from the bad; and to force the judges to examine crucial aspects of each map under the microscope to facilitate the judging process and help to form their opinion. When meeting time comes around, the judges can look at the highest scoring maps and work their way down from there to easily determine which maps belong in the top 5 and which ones simply don't deserve to make the cut. Oh thanks for taking your time out to brag a little bud. The scoring system makes a little more sense now, but its still a lame excuse to bring in the subjective bullshit and especially since there is the intangible section. hence the tpw > others. On July 11 2011 04:55 Archvil3 wrote: How about we quit the "I'm about to hit puberty and really hate my parents-attitude" and start acting with a bit of dignity? Not only do you cry about the MOTM judges you take a shit on the winning maps and map makers while you are at it. Does it really feel that bad to lose? way to disregard my fair complaint, you really showed me! | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
what is a map with a score of 7 in balance for example? when you submit something to a contect it is up to the judges and their understanding of the game and the map- it is all about subjectivity and the judges pespectives on what one has produced... | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
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lefix
Germany1082 Posts
 how am i ever going to talk to girls about starcraft again? | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Honestly, this is ridiculous. | ||
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Icetoad
Canada262 Posts
All TPW are good map and such as the other that were almost chosen. But lets talk about the final result, the result went to a 5 map from TPW. This result makes it look like a friend map making tourny, also this create a feeling of no diversity for the choosing, I'm sure if there had been just 3 maps of TPW, than this wouldn't have flame as must right now. I think right now it's the final result that makes us irritated. I have also the same feeling as the other people and I feel that our map LoS_Novaria (me and wnio) should have been chosen, we had work a lot on it, I'm pretty sure it's the same as many other map maker. For me it's the final result that makes me unhappy. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On July 11 2011 09:04 Icetoad wrote: Okay my 2-cent: All TPW are good map and such as the other that were almost chosen. But lets talk about the final result, the result went to a 5 map from TPW. This result makes it look like a friend map making tourny, also this create a feeling of no diversity for the choosing, I'm sure if there had been just 3 maps of TPW, than this wouldn't have flame as must right now. I think right now it's the final result that makes us irritated. I have also the same feeling as the other people and I feel that our map LoS_Novaria (me and wnio) should have been chosen, we had work a lot on it, I'm pretty sure it's the same as many other map maker. For me it's the final result that makes me unhappy. I get that you're unhappy, but as I replied in PM to you, frankly I don't give a fuck where the maps came from. Once people realize that, they'll get that we aren't biased. Throughout all the judging conversations, we cut TPW and LOS and oZz or whatever the third one was from the names when we were talking about them. TPW was inevitably going to get a bunch of top spots because they are a majority of TL's good mappers. You and WniO are top as well, its just that this time the guys in TPW took the spots. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
I just think you overestimate yourself and underestimate other players (especially progamer's) abilities to think ahead in the metagame. another thing I want to add: the game is balanced around a very very small variety of mapspecific things (main bases that look the same, naturals that are easy to take etc,etc...), so saying that mapmakers contribute a lot to the metagame is like... "you need water to swim!" + Show Spoiler + and once again I want to add for all the mapmakers (might not be true for every map this month, as you need to see a lot of Code S games on the maps to really figure this out): Most submitted maps are beautiful and well balanced, yet I think any great map has to have some innovations in it, else no tournament is going to take a map, that "plays basically like Crevasse/Crossifre/XNC/Metalopolis... but it has the *map Y*like feature too". Hysteria definatly has this; any of the GSL maps and even a lot of blizzard's ladder maps too. | ||
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Icetoad
Canada262 Posts
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