(Available and published on EU and NA only. Search TPW Antiga Prime and look for 1.2).
MOTM#7 FINALIST!
TPW Antiga Prime
Introduction: If you remember my previous maps, Scars of Aiur and Bel'Shir Walkway, I put a lot of emphasis on greenery and lighting. I wanted to get away from those types of textures this time and work with something more simple, yet appealing. So, I created Antiga Prime. The former name is associated with the Terrans who occupied the territory (thus a couple outposts on the map), and it was mostly rugged, rocky terrain with a lot of dry grass. And so, I present to you, TPW Antiga Prime.
-2 Players -136x136 -12 bases (2 golds) -40 second rush distance from nat to nat
-No backdoor rocks to the naturals, as this opens up potential 3rds and different playstyles.
-The XWT placements cover both main walk way entries, but they are surrounded by LoS.
-Tarsonis Tileset, with agrian grass as well as agrian/bel'shir LoS.
-The map has a small tint of red to give it a dry, deserty feel (barely noticeable though).
-The easy quick 3rds are on high ground and they lean toward the middle, which makes them risky to take but they are heavily protected (walled in, on high ground), however they are blocked by rocks. Otherwise, you can take a linear 3rd through the back ramp at the natural. I realize people will say it's impossible to FE with no rocks there, but think metalopolis. A half-wall is still good, and it's very close to the back door, so it's not like your army has to run a mile to protect your natural
After a couple tests tonight with masters players, I was told that I should make the 3 and 9 o'clock bases (on high ground) gold expansions blocked by rocks.
It was also of my own opinion that I need to add destructible rocks somewhere to block any sort of pathing... but i'm not 100% sure where. Previously I had some on the back-door to the naturals but I was told by several map makers that it'd be best if they were not there, and so right now everything is open.
On June 17 2011 15:55 IronManSC wrote: After a couple tests tonight with masters players, I was told that I should make the 3 and 9 o'clock bases (on high ground) gold expansions blocked by rocks.
It was also of my own opinion that I need to add destructible rocks somewhere to block any sort of pathing... but i'm not 100% sure where. Previously I had some on the back-door to the naturals but I was told by several map makers that it'd be best if they were not there, and so right now everything is open.
What is your opinion community?
Those wing expansions look very easy to cover on ground, gold expansions should be in vulnerable territory, a risk. As for rocks, the map looks pretty restricted and I don't really see any pathways that should only be open 'later'.
Then again I haven't played the map, just some friendly theorycrafting.
On June 17 2011 15:55 IronManSC wrote: After a couple tests tonight with masters players, I was told that I should make the 3 and 9 o'clock bases (on high ground) gold expansions blocked by rocks.
It was also of my own opinion that I need to add destructible rocks somewhere to block any sort of pathing... but i'm not 100% sure where. Previously I had some on the back-door to the naturals but I was told by several map makers that it'd be best if they were not there, and so right now everything is open.
What is your opinion community?
Those wing expansions look very easy to cover on ground, gold expansions should be in vulnerable territory, a risk. As for rocks, the map looks pretty restricted and I don't really see any pathways that should only be open 'later'.
Then again I haven't played the map, just some friendly theorycrafting.
So it sounds like what you're saying is the high ground expansions in the 3 and 9 o'clock expansions have potential for being golds, and that there really isnt a place on the map for destructible rocks?
i do not think DRs are really needed anywhere. i did not play this map, but from looking at the overview I get the impression that the bases at 4 and 10 infront of the mains might be better suited for gold because of there openness. what about changing the 3 and 9 bases to low instead of highground?
the visuals are really nice. bleach and dust and still somehow beautifull. big step from your belshir-routine!
The 4 and 10 bases are probably better off being blocked golds. Plus if your opponent grabs that watch tower, he'll see it (golds are generally better if they can be seen by towers I think). I thought about the 3 and 9 high ground bases being gold but they seem too far away, making them less worthy to take because of the distance, and once it's attacked you've pretty much lost it and can't have a single chance to reinforce it.
Im following it with my eyes and almost every corner I turn there's an expo!
I like the idea of tossing in a gold at the 4 and 10 o clocks just to mix things up, but perhaps remove the 1 and the 7 o'clock bases just to have some sort of area to fight without a base being in jeopardy? (asides the mid of course). Just my 2 cents.
1 and 7 will be the normal 3rds, so removing this is kinda akward. When he really wants to remove bases i suggest those on low ground close to the mains.
I like the aesthetics, although I think is way over-treed.
Other than that, it just seems a little boring. None of the expansions have any particular vulnerabilities. No golds or rocks or anything special really. So it's kinda meh, but not really bad.
So far I have the 4 and 10 bases changed to golds block by rocks.
I realize its very bland because it's all trees, paths, and grass. What I will try to do is add some water pockets around the map that kinda narrow certain places down and make it a little more interesting, to say the least.
EDIT:
Also, i'm wondering what you guys think of this setup:
There is a new ramp that was added that leads to the high ground 3rd. In addition, the back door to the natural was taken out.
For the attacker, he can choose to get on that high ground without the risk of running into a fortified natural. In addition, the flow of running through the high ground 3rd is much smoother for attack planning.
For the defendant, it would help him reinforce his 1/7 o'clock base more easily (once the rocks are down) instead of going all the way around to the natural first. When players do this (and i've seen it already in 4 games played), it leaves that low ground corner base super vulnerable to attack, and hardly ever have time to reinforce it.
As of right now, I have been testing it out and it works best with just one double-ramp near the 3rd (not blocked off), but the 3rd high ground would be blocked off by rocks.
I had to update the images since photobucket crapped out on me with the bandwidth. No updated screenshots just yet as i'm still investigating what works best around the natural and 3rd.
This one is easier to wall and FE to but the low 3rd is now a little further away and also harder to hold (due to the longer nat to low 3rd distance). So i'm also not sure ^^
Here is another setup I could do. It's similar to the other one, but less chokey, and it's harder to wall-off with a FE. It also makes the low-ground 3rd/4th feel closer.
i really like your last change, its really makes it better. your a great map maker keep up the great work. i will test it out tonight at a lan with some players and give you some feedback.
@OldBoy: These are just possibilities. They aren't final or official, or are they published changes. The only map you'll experience is the overview in the OP.
i think i liked the other ramp version better, it required the defender to move around more and made 3base turtling a little bit harder. i'm also not too fond of the close gold base. i'd rather have no gold bases on this map or at least move them as far away from the mains as possible. but maybe that's just my personal taste.
90-degree overview picture updated (I won't update the other pics until most things are final).
1) I added golds in at the 3 and 9 o'clock high ground bases, blocked by rocks.
2) I fixed the ramp by the natural that allows a choice to attack the 3rd or the natural. The ramp also allows a quicker and easier path to reinforce your low ground corner base if it is under attack.
This is looking really good. There's not much I can see that looks imbalanced.
My primary concern is how easy it is to hold 4 bases. I feel that it is very possible to lean towards Protoss and Terran because of how easily they can turtle up on 4 bases, and just push with a deathball. On the other hand, it might be okay since Zerg can essentially turtle up just as easily- they just need to be 1 expo ahead of the opponent almost all the time.
It might be beneficial in your future maps (not sure if its possible on this one) to make the 3rd and 4th slightly harder to hold, and allow more aggression/harass from the opponent. Notice how in Destination, taking a 3rd opens up a large ramp, and forces you to spread your army out a lot. The mineral only can be taken as a 3rd, but it forces you to break down a backdoor into your main.
So, if its possible, it would be good to discourage turtling on the 4 bases in Antiga Prime, possibly by making them more open. You could also reduce mineral count/gas count as a last resort.
Do you have any suggestions or ideas on how to break a 4-base turtle? I think it's more of a 3-base because the low-ground corner base is heavily vulnerable (assuming your army was on the higher ground). You can't really split your army up in two open areas that are relatively far apart from each other because that guarantees not only a lost base, or a lost army, but perhaps the game.
I've been trying to experiment with the ramp between the nat and 3rd but it's really difficult to implement something without it getting in the way of the 3rd, so that's the best option. Other wise, if you look at the bases pics, you'll see the old natural ramp version. In that version, the ramp made it very hard to reinforce the corner base if it was under attack. It guarantees a lost base. If you built in the corner with that version, it's a risk. I had to make it easier for this one, and this is how it looks as of now.
I'd leave both open. The small ramp into the natural does not make the natural as vulnerable as you'd think, I tried it on Hysteria, and to my surprise, it didn't tend to favor rush tactics.
I will give it a try and test it out. Then. I think it would make it more dynamic.
@Barrin:
The map overview in the OP is the only image that is up to date. I am not doing any base pics until it's really final (wastes picture space on my imageshack and stuff).
It is of the opinion of a couple master zerg players that they "felt favored" and that I should add destructible rocks at the high ground 3rd base. What does the community think? These 4 bases are all fairly close. I think there has to be even a little limitations.
I put some rocks at the high ground 3rd because I've had several master zergs tell me it was too easy to expand when the bases are this close, so it's appropriate to have rocks at the nearest 3rd base. There is still a low-ground 3rd around the back of the natural.
I did a little aesthetic work in the main base with decals, and around the map as well.
I also put some water pockets in various places to kinda make it feel more natural instead of just trees and grass.
I've been experimenting with lights in the trees (like scars of aiur) but it looks a bit funky because this is a desert/rugged area, and any lighting would look awkward with the general look and feel of the map, but as I said I am still experimenting. I plan to do a little doodad work in the near future once I square away the overall map balance and mechanics.
This is my 3rd real map. My second one was Scars of Aiur, and my very first one was Bel'Shir Walkway. My experience with the map editor has increased tenfold since I've made that map, so you will find bel'shir walkway a little out of place as far as doodading and architexture.
One thing that concerns me is how easy it would be to turtle up on three bases. I'm not sure if this is possible but I think adding more space around the edges of the map would improve this a lot. The threat of drops and air harrass like banshees, Phoenix and mutalisk would force static defense or divert units for defending the main. This would make it harder to simply camp the death ball at the third.
Hey guys if you would like to see a game in action on IronMan's man check out RNSstarcraft on youtube i just casted a game with this map! here is the link TELL YO FRIENDS BOUT IT -PART1
The chokes between the XWT's and the low-ground corner bases was slightly widened (approx 5 FF can wall it off next to the gold ramps). In addition to 0.7, the gold rocks were removed.
Well, Antiga Prime didn't win MotM#7, but there were great games on it, and i am personally grateful for the coverage it got!
TPW Antiga Prime may undergo a few hotfixes to perfect it even more (no balance changes) especially after the games played on it, so stay tuned for 1.3 in the near future.
Don't block bases by rocks. I personally think that bases shouldn't be blocked by rocks so that it is easier to take hidden expos and put more emphasis on scouting.
i really like this map. some friends and i played some cgs on it and it looks great. as a terran player i can only speak for the T matchups: TvT is really funny and good, because of the inability to contain ypur enemy on 3 bases. the position of the third also creates some unique situations of siege tank positioning. TvP is also fine. you cant really denie the toss' third, but in the middle of the map you have an advantage. TvZ has a lategame problem. you cant get a 4th and 5th without spreading yourself extremly thin. positioning the small choke at your third a little bit more in direction to the gold would make it more defendable imo.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6532/tpwantigaprime.jpg)
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