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Avalon Keep
by oneil
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/t5OwL.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [Detailed Overview] +Green \ = Vespene Green X = Rich Vespene Blue ( = Minerals Red < = LOS Blocker Yellow = XNT + Range ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ZNPgt.jpg)
This is my second melee map submission to the TL forums. It's a 1v1 map with a custom cavern/cave texture set. Lots of rain, fog and weird flora 
All I've got is a ~23 min insane vs insane replay.. If you'd like to test out the map please upload any replays you get!
My other map(s):
Uplands
- Total dev time: ~5 hours
- Spawns: Middle (10 and 4)
- Size: 128x160 (playable)
- XNT: 2
- Tileset: Custom Cave
- Expansions: 10
- 8x 8 min 2 vesp
- 2x 6 min 1 rich vesp
+ Show Spoiler [In-game screens] +
+ Show Spoiler [Analyzer] +
Avalon Keep is currently published on NA - one.610
+ Show Spoiler [Changelogs] +
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I think you struck gold here sir. Never seen such a layout before, its refreshing and pretty damn good
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Gorgeous texturing, a bit on the dark side of the moon ?
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Thanks guys! As for the darkness, I updated the OP with in-game screenshots..
Can anyone tell me how to take high-res overview screenshots without all the doodads and such showing from the editor?
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On March 28 2011 00:28 oneil wrote:Thanks guys! As for the darkness, I updated the OP with in-game screenshots.. Can anyone tell me how to take high-res overview screenshots without all the doodads and such showing from the editor?
i'm not sure if that's possible, but then again i don't know much about the editor. there may be an option to do so, or you can just save the map, delete all the doodads, take the screenshot, and load the old version with the doodads still in place.
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That's what I did for the top-most screenshot.. But I see people put high-res screenshots with all doodas present and showing fog/mist as well. Hmmm
On March 28 2011 00:39 VarpuliS wrote:
i'm not sure if that's possible, but then again i don't know much about the editor. there may be an option to do so, or you can just save the map, delete all the doodads, take the screenshot, and load the old version with the doodads still in place.
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United States10218 Posts
interesting format of the natural... the side alley makes it so you might have to pay a bit of attention.
however, the xelnagas are useless, since you can take them easily and they dont have any purpose to see major movement of the enemy.
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I would hesitate to call the XNT useless, as they won't be that easy to hold until you control your third and push your forces out from the high ground. It's a key position to hold to detect air and keeping an eye for any hidden expansions or troops coming through the back.
By your definition the XNT would have to be placed in the middle (to show enemy movement) and this would be far too important a position to hold
On March 28 2011 01:01 FlaShFTW wrote:
however, the xelnagas are useless, since you can take them easily and they dont have any purpose to see major movement of the enemy.
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So basically you have one straight path down to your opponent with no major side paths or flanking routes available. Defend one spot by land and you have your half of the map.
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my 2 cents here would be to put the towers by the large los blockers as well as add ramps going to the high ground expos on both sides, pretty sure your current design has it in a linear expo setup where each side goes one way, with ramps on both sides you can attack expos with have to say medvac lift everything up there.
also i think adding rocks to the large ramp where i think the expo is, top right and bottom left areas would make it a little easier for early game defense until you had a nice standing army
very good map though, those three things imo would make it pretty good for ladder or tourney play
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On March 28 2011 01:55 neobowman wrote:
So basically you have one straight path down to your opponent with no major side paths or flanking routes available. Defend one spot by land and you have your half of the map.
I was anticipating this comment, and the quick and easy answer is: yes, the only true ground attack path is through the middle. Using the go-to siege tanks, here is a range analysis:
+ Show Spoiler +
If you are camping your nat's main ramp with tanks, the enemy can still maneuver his entire army through the little recessed path as it's big enough to accommodate all unit sizes:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 28 2011 02:10 sixdrumquads wrote:
my 2 cents here would be to put the towers by the large los blockers as well as add ramps going to the high ground expos on both sides, pretty sure your current design has it in a linear expo setup where each side goes one way, with ramps on both sides you can attack expos with have to say medvac lift everything up there.
also i think adding rocks to the large ramp where i think the expo is, top right and bottom left areas would make it a little easier for early game defense until you had a nice standing army
I'm not too sure about your XNT placement, as moving them any closer from their current position would reveal into the opponent's main, natural and/or choke. I do however agree with your suggestion of putting rocks to block off the back door during the early game.
How do you feel about giant destructible rocks across like so:
+ Show Spoiler +Rocks here are out of XNT vision, allow early hidden expos and require extra effort to check up on: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/f9WJC.jpg)
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Im loving the layout of this map. Completely diverse to any out there.
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On March 28 2011 02:26 oneil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 01:55 neobowman wrote:
So basically you have one straight path down to your opponent with no major side paths or flanking routes available. Defend one spot by land and you have your half of the map. I was anticipating this comment, and the quick and easy answer is: yes, the only true ground attack path is through the middle. Using the go-to siege tanks, here is a range analysis: + Show Spoiler +If you are camping your nat's main ramp with tanks, the enemy can still maneuver his entire army through the little recessed path as it's big enough to accommodate all unit sizes: + Show Spoiler +
Are you actually serious? No one in their right mind would move their whole army through that side path. Far too cramped and out of the way. Plus, I'm not saying the middle path is in tank range from then nat, I'm saying that the middle path is tiny and is the only path to your opponent. If a Terran camps one end of it, there's no way you're getting past.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
On March 28 2011 02:26 oneil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 01:55 neobowman wrote:
So basically you have one straight path down to your opponent with no major side paths or flanking routes available. Defend one spot by land and you have your half of the map. I was anticipating this comment, and the quick and easy answer is: yes, the only true ground attack path is through the middle. Using the go-to siege tanks, here is a range analysis: + Show Spoiler +If you are camping your nat's main ramp with tanks, the enemy can still maneuver his entire army through the little recessed path as it's big enough to accommodate all unit sizes: + Show Spoiler +
So you want a player to roflstomp himself by trapping himself in that passage? LOL!
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No, that's not what I meant.. I just wanted to show that any sized unit can move through that path. It's 1 FF wide so obviously not a good place to run your entire ball through..
Finally, you'd be walking through your path and not the one on your opponent's side (if the intent is to avoid tank fire)
+ Show Spoiler [Quotes for above] +On March 28 2011 02:49 neobowman wrote:
Are you actually serious? No one in their right mind would move their whole army through that side path. Far too cramped and out of the way. On March 28 2011 02:50 dezi wrote:
So you want a player to roflstomp himself by trapping himself in that passage? LOL!
I've amended the map a little to add an extra path, some destructible rocks and new LOS blockers. I'll be updating the OP once a little feedback is given:
+ Show Spoiler +
Thanks for the comments guys!
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
If you stretch the map a little bit to create actually 2 seperated paths in the mid it might be a much better map. Right now you only need to camp at the third to secure urself 5 bases (beside drops) and please add some more details pics (to me the map looks somewhat empty in terms of doodads).
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Maybe a long stretch of LOS blockers through the center splitting it into two might help a bit with the problem, or high HP destructable rocks on a ramp between the mains and opponent's third expo? Just an idea, can't say I'm any pro balancing guru or anything. At least the rocks / ramp would open another attack path mid-game, and I think the LOS (maybe not in this shape, could be another) would hurt turtled terran's tank range.
/brainstorm
I like it a lot, though. Especially the tileset.
+ Show Spoiler [idea] +
On March 28 2011 03:38 oneil wrote:I've amended the map a little to add an extra path, some destructible rocks and new LOS blockers. I'll be updating the OP once a little feedback is given: + Show Spoiler +Thanks for the comments guys!
It looks like the expansion to the north of the left main base has a cliff on the back, while the same base on the opposite side seems still to have a ramp. Or is there a ramp up top that I just can't see for the shadowing?
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This is the big problem with the layout of this map. Two starting bases on the sides of a tall but thin map. Ends up with one path through the middle.
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I think what will be interesting in this map is to see the battles for the expos, as the layout around those is more complex and interesting, but otherwise I agree that the attack patch through the middle could be a bit of a problem in creating interesting matches. 2 basing seems too easy.
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It looks like reapers and blink stalkers would be increeeeeeeeedibly powerful here due to the amount of cliff space by your main and nat, maybe it's just me.
Other than that looks pretty cool :D
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Heavy modifications should be posted in ~15 mins!
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It looks like reapers and blink stalkers would be increeeeeeeeedibly powerful here due to the amount of cliff space by your main and nat, maybe it's just me.
I think just the opposite. its low ground between the main and nat so its still makes blink stalkers/reapers able to be used effectively but any defending unit can shoot down after them or prevent attacking units below. Great idea to the mapper.
Just a possible fairly large layout suggestion (tho i haven't seen the new "big" changes yet) when it comes to only having one path to the main/nat. Why not bring the 4th and 5th closer to the center. bring the 4th right in behind the 3rd still keeping the small hole gap and make the distance short from nat to 4th so there is the possibly of going around through the 4th to the nat. If you bring the 5th in closer too - have some backdoor rocks to the mains so that your 5th could also be your opponents 2nd nat if it were. If be happy to give a sketch if my decription isn't too clear.
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OP updated with new wider middle version!
I left it bare to see how people would react first; I am after all mapping for the masses
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Can anyone tell me how to take high-res overview screenshots without all the doodads and such showing from the editor?
In the editor, go to lighting, then choose game/ not editor view. Or also press V or click "lock game view setting".
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Better, I'd rather see the rocks blocking from the nat to the 4th moved to block the middle of the 3rd. The tower too easy to for your opponent to grab from you but that may just be me. Not sure what the gully from the main to your opponents 5th is for.
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Block the middle of the 3rd? ie blocking the CC location? Just trying to clarify
IMO the XNT may be easy to hold.. but it's extremely out of your opponent's way and is pretty important where it is to detect air avoiding the middle.
On March 29 2011 07:10 hobbidude wrote:
Better, I'd rather see the rocks blocking from the nat to the 4th moved to block the middle of the 3rd. The tower too easy to for your opponent to grab from you but that may just be me. Not sure what the gully from the main to your opponents 5th is for.
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I like this map, it's very original in layout. I'm interested in how the XWTs would affect gameplay. They do not reveal much in the center, and they do not even reveal the quickest path between the bases. If I drew a line from the natural ramp to the other natural ramp, it would miss the vision of both XWTs. I think that they could be moved slightly closer in that direction so that you can tell if somebody is coming to your base.
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Block the middle of the 3rd? ie blocking the CC location? Just trying to clarify
Ya sorry - you got the idea.
As far as the new xwt tower, i meant it too hard to hold and too easy to take your opponents imo. I agree with you that the actual towers are in the perfect position (DON"T MOVE) but its more so the land around it that concerns me. I don't agree with antares that they should cover more of the main path; there's only one large short main path that you will be watching anyways. The towers do indeed need to cover the other bases and back paths like you intended.
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On March 29 2011 06:59 hobbidude wrote:
If be happy to give a sketch if my decription isn't too clear.
I understand what you mean and do agree with making the 5th a possible expansion for your opponent.
However, I like to think of your opponent taking that expo like you taking your semi-island expo on scrap station: it's far and out of the way, not very easy to defend by ground (distance) but in heavy air builds it becomes much more powerful. I put a back door into my main on Uplands and the overall reaction was poor.
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The problem isn't that there's a tight path in the middle, it's that there only is one path through the middle. Even if it's going to be open, it's still just so linear. There are no points you need to hold other than the middle. If you try to go back further from the middle, your enemy's right at your front door with no opposition.
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