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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/5gca5.jpg)
Archi - Ancient Springs
Hello all, I'm back after the winter hols, hope everyone had a good time and will have a good new year.
This map is one of my entries for the MotM So it is not yet up for download or published on Bnet until after the competition.
Apologies for the lack of spoilers, there was an issue with the images everytime i put them in spoilers. I have no idea why.
1v1
This is a large 1v1 map with lots of routes to take and open up. I made this map in the same way that I made Eerie Garden, in that I started with a centre piece and then worked outward without a plan, then cleaned it up at the end. I focused on having what I thought was interesting areas to fight and making it easy to move between them.
Additionally I wanted the rox to serve multiple purposes, which you can see mostly on the rox at the third. Keeping them up makes defending very strong, and losing them can flip the balance of a match. They serve as a defence and a block to a nice large path. Losing them can feel like someone breaking down the drawbridge and change the state of play. I thought it would be interesting to see what players might do to keep the wall up.
Another thing I wanted to do was to use doodads (in this case temple walls and statues) as LOS and pathing blockers. Though this idea isnt new, its something that I have tended to only use with long grass and with trees (on other maps). This is mainly used around the centre to create a bit more of a dynamic fighting area and making that XNT very important.
Map View
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UD2y7.jpg)
Overview:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/7Ra4i.jpg)
Angled View
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YPldJ.jpg)
Analyzer
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IsuBp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wJwD1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zqX2s.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bOOGO.png)
Features
Rox
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7SM9c.jpg)
Rox hide alternate routes and block the gold Expo's
Long Grass
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/63UB0.jpg)
Plenty of long grass areas to play with LOS tactics - concentrated mostly around the gold expo areas, but there is more in other key areas.
Tall structures
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xkmTQ.jpg)
The tall structures are a little more than just decoration. They also block pathing for flying units, making excape after harrassing a little more than click away.
Centre Ruins
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RI8I5.jpg)
As with other tall structures, the temple ruins in the centre are LOS blockers for ground units, and Pathing blockers for both Ground and Air units. Unfortunately the Anlyzer does not show this. The XNT in the centre grants vision over the whole area giving units a significant advantage.
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it's certainly very pretty, nice work
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
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On January 03 2011 05:37 dezi wrote:
It's certainly to big.
It is big but still rushible. (rushable?)
From spawn ramp to spawn ramp, with a probe, it takes 50secs - in comparison XNC takes 42secs from spawn ramp to spawn ramp (game time). 8secs is a big difference, but it is still rushable.
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On January 03 2011 05:37 dezi wrote:
It's certainly to big.
There is no such thing.
This map looks very fun and pretty, awesome work.
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I really like the design of this map. One thing I've noticed about SC2 is its lack of double ramp maps. While they weren't that common in BW, they made for very unique games. As you said in your description, it tends to really create interesting battles.
Beyond the double ramp, I like the concept of having both a protected natural and semi-protected third. While it will tend to make longer games, I don't see how that is an issue at all. One of the testaments of a good SC player is the ability to change their style and adapt based on the map. With a map like this one, I could see some new builds develop out of it. Great work.
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nice map. It reminds me of a mix of delta quadrant and lost temple 
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From the look of it the shallow water battles will look great and add a nice touch
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How does the Long Grass areas play out? I'm not convinced it's fun but it's sure a nice touch of originality (compared to official Bliz maps)
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United States10567 Posts
I LOVE this map. its so beautiful with the springs and stuff. good work. i love macro maps, but it seems your bases in the top left and bot right are too clumped up. you can defend like 2 chokes, and go on 5 bases plus HY. maybe spread those out?
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Does it take 5 in game minutes to get to your opponent? :o That seems rather overdone.
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hmmm most blizz maps have abouth 25% xelnag tower covrige if u nerf the xel nag tower and make the gold harder to take +fix the long grass u got to much u can still have a lot but this is a bit over the top
realy nice map tho ))
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This map is really good for aesthetics, but not so much for gameplay.
The small ramps make it so that Zerg will be at a disadvantage in certain areas. This isn't a big deal on this map because you have a lot of open space to make up for it. You give each player practically two free expansions. That needs to be changed. I'd move the rocks that guard the choke to the third so that it guards the choke from the main to the third, so that the third is accessible from the middle and not the main. The map is also too large for competitive gameplay in my honest opinion. The high yield expansions are very isolated and not in a very good position. I'd just remove them entirely by chopping off that stretch of land.
Shrink the map size if you can, because that seems to be the biggest problem.
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Incomming wall of txt @_@
@FlaShFTW
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 06:19 FlaShFTW wrote:
I LOVE this map. its so beautiful with the springs and stuff. good work. i love macro maps, but it seems your bases in the top left and bot right are too clumped up. you can defend like 2 chokes, and go on 5 bases plus HY. maybe spread those out?
Well the area from nat through to third is pretty large, so if you were to push forward to defend at the chocke by the rox (and the highground around there) that would leave large amounts of your base open to air units and drops, you would have to pull units off the front line to deal with it.
If you wanted to hold the bottom half of the map (or most of it) the attacker will have the advantage really, mostly because of all the routes to cross from the top half to the bottom half. Part of the idea of this map was to make it easy to move from one combat area to another so players can change up tactics. Defending all of the ways or trying to keep up with where the attacker strikes next would be very hard.
@DiZasteR
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 06:21 DiZasteR wrote:
Does it take 5 in game minutes to get to your opponent? :o That seems rather overdone.
As mentioned in a previous reply, From spawn ramp to spawn ramp, with a probe, it takes 50secs - in comparison XNC takes 42secs from spawn ramp to spawn ramp (game time). 8secs is a big difference, but it is still rushable. Those times are in game time.
@Makeone
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 06:57 Makeone wrote:hmmm most blizz maps have abouth 25% xelnag tower covrige if u nerf the xel nag tower and make the gold harder to take +fix the long grass u got to much u can still have a lot but this is a bit over the top realy nice map tho ))
the XNT's took alot of consideration. But as I focused on areas to fight and the flow inbetween them, it seemd right to have an XNT in each area.
In the centre the XNT is almost like a king of the hill like centre. The ruins are both sight and path blockers (blocking air pathing as well), controlling that grants a large advantage to the fighting in the area, and the area has routes to the rest of the map.
The top left + bottome right XNT, grants early warning if you have the gold expo, also it grants advantage over the grass at the other expos nearby.
The bottom left and the top right primarily act as early warning for who ever has it, but also fighting around the platform means that you can use it as cover so holding that XNT again grants the advantage. The ramp is aimed at the attackers route to make it easier to siege the defender. I had it the other way round initially but it made turtling much easier as it was too easy for the defender to reinforce it and keep an easy early warning.
@Meltage
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 05:18 Meltage wrote:
How does the Long Grass areas play out? I'm not convinced it's fun but it's sure a nice touch of originality (compared to official Bliz maps)
Well the long grass is placed so that sections of armies can see each other without seeing the rest of the army. Meaning you act a certain way based on what you see (or dont see) and then find out how much more they actually have. It plays with the idea of how much you might commit at any one moment. An over cautious player might pull back thinking there is more than there really is and an over confident player might over commit and find a larger force than expected.
This can be nulified by having an air unit give you extra vision, getting someone on the platform for slightly better vision, or taking the XNT for vision over the area by the blue expos and 2 of the 4 ramps leading to the area. Though the XNT will not help at the grass by the gold.
The size and exposure of the rest of the map means that commiting air units to extra vision in that area to give you intel will result in a lack of air support/intel somewhere else. So over commiting air to that area can end up back-fireing, under commiting means the air unit might get killed and you lose that unit and your advantage/intel.
Due to the size of the map, using the bulk of air units defensively to act againt drops and harrasss and move back and forth over your terrain is much quicker than ground units in responding, leaving ground units more leeway to attack. Of course it doesnt always work out that way, I'm just generalizing at this point, but that was part of the focus.
@Antares777
+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 07:08 Antares777 wrote:
This map is really good for aesthetics, but not so much for gameplay.
The small ramps make it so that Zerg will be at a disadvantage in certain areas. This isn't a big deal on this map because you have a lot of open space to make up for it. You give each player practically two free expansions. That needs to be changed. I'd move the rocks that guard the choke to the third so that it guards the choke from the main to the third, so that the third is accessible from the middle and not the main. The map is also too large for competitive gameplay in my honest opinion. The high yield expansions are very isolated and not in a very good position. I'd just remove them entirely by chopping off that stretch of land.
Shrink the map size if you can, because that seems to be the biggest problem.
Well I cant change anything anyways coz I entered it into the competition, but maybe I might make some of those changes after the comp is done to see how it plays out.
A few points:
Its true, its is practically 2 free expos, but the space between the nat and third is quite long, so moving troops between those points is a handfull. Though from spawn its quite easy to manage. Equally looking to reinforce from spawn (say from the ramp area) would mean a front line that is much closer to spawn, leaving the rox open to be destroyed and suddenly that third is very open and easy to lose. Also at that point the low and highground act almost as one large path that the attacker can push down and cut off the defender from the rest of the map. When that happens the map feels pretty small.
For what you said about the ramps - that was pretty much my thinking, though the ramps around the center are large.
The map may be too large for competitive play, I think the layout works against that though. There is a pretty direct route between spawns making the early game feel pretty focused, as a match might get longer, the rest of the map comes into play more and more. (i've mentioned previously the times)
As for the golds, I can see your point. When I think of XNC the golds are nicely placed along the main attack route (something i really like about that map). In this I wanted to do something different, I wanted that direct route to be based around movement more than move/take/hold/move. (maybe over simplyfying it abit there)
One reason for that was to maximize the freedom of moving from one side of the map to the other.
Another to encourage outward expanding in the long game and allow for players to really hurt each other financially.
Another was actually a bit of a gamble as far as the competition. Some of the more experianced map makers are good, i mean really good and frankly I dont have the skill in making maps that they do, yet . So trying something a little different seemd like my best bet. Also, its something I've done it in a few other maps in the past and wanted to try and do again and see if I can do it better.
Thanks for your observasions, they will be taken into account on my current project (my days of the week project - 7 maps each symbolizing the days of the week), as much as I am making them for fun, there is a few I would like to see as competition maps.
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Gorgeous. Simply gorgeous map ....
Please continue to do whatever it takes to improve on this map for balance
and playability.
Would love to eventually see some epic games in this environment.
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EPT
