|
So, crazy idea, if you changed arid wastes to a two player map with top right and btm left spawns, it would actually be a reasonably good (compared to the trash in the ladder pool atm) 1v1 map? Thoughts?
Pic added for emphasis.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/8c2AD.jpg)
extended thoughts: Long rush distance map (pretty much what almost everyone wants more of in the map pool, this map looks to really promote macro play), backdoor to nat is really close to front door anyway, so the problems that arise on blistering wouldn't be as big of an issue considering the defender has a much easier time bouncing between the two chokes than the attacker does (especially coupled with the fact that nat-front is pretty damn small anyway)
Pretty well designed mid, with open areas but not stupidly open as the watchtowers provied smaller chokey areas.
Fairly interesting decision on what third to take either the no-longer-a-main's natural anti-clockwise of your spawn, knocking down your nat's back rocks and taking the third clockwise of yourself, blocking off the main-nat entrance (somewhat like we saw a lot of protoss doing on blistering PvZ earlier in the meta-game, block the main entrance and use the backdoor as your new entrance), one of the golds if you have map control, or the map is big enough to gamble on a 'hidden' expansion.
Interesting dynamic late game where the map isnt easily 'split' with the paths opened at the destructible rocks at the 'no-longer-a-main' bases. Would also promote a lot of fighting over the golds at mid and really promote a mobile army.
The more i look at this, the more i wish it was in the map pool, i kinda wish i could make my own topic on it I like the idea of this being a 1v1 map so much.
Anyone have any thoughts?
new poll seeming the other one im quite sure is insanely biased as the 'no-longer-a-main' spawns have incredibly disadvantages against the other spawns
Poll: Include Arid Wastes 2-player mode?Yes (114) 86% No (19) 14% 133 total votes Your vote: Include Arid Wastes 2-player mode? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
edit:
Alright for everone that voted 'yes' to the poll and has any interest in the map being added over one of the current maps in the pool, show your support by posting here ( http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1567927301#1 ) and not letting the thread get buried! Hopefully someone at blizz reads and takes us seriously 
|
I have to agree with you on this one. It is actually a somewhat difficult 2v2 map because of the long distances between you and your ally and a large open area where you would want to rally with your ally. I do like the idea of the 1v1 settings though. Good catch on that!
|
Maybe if they take out the 2 unused mains, it may work... With those mains there, a person securing the natural will be able to take the main as a 4th relatively easily I think.
If you take out those mains and flatten the road (maybe leaving a pair of destructible rocks between the corner and the 3rd base sort of like between mains in Shakuras). Maybe even moving the gold to the area between those 2 rocks. The way the gold is now, 1v1 if you are able to take one safely, chances are you've won the game.
Bah, what the hell do I know? I'm just spewing stuff that sounds good to me 
|
I love playing this map on 2v2! Only when I don't have the stupid rocks, lol
|
On December 15 2010 15:20 o3.power91 wrote:
Maybe if they take out the 2 unused mains, it may work... With those mains there, a person securing the natural will be able to take the main as a 4th relatively easily I think.
HHmmmm yes and no i think, the backdoor at the 4th i'd assume would make it much harder to take than the map looks at first glance, but you definitely have a point!
Either way i feel like you could make the same argument for shakurus, (the backdoor is even harder to get through there as there's 2 rocks you need to break, way away from where you likely want your army to be), so i dont think it's a map-breaking problem.
|
I would hate to see this in the ladder pool. I actually kinda like playing it 1v1, but i want new maps from blizzard, i dont want to have to relearn how to play that map if ive been doing it 2v2 for a hundred times. and if it were 1v1 the map has way to much unnused space.
|
I would hate it as a Zerg.
Let's imagine a Zerg would spawn at 6 (Bottom), Terran at 8 (Bottom left) -> Free nukes/Tanks bombing in Zerg's natural, directly from Terrain's main !
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On December 16 2010 01:36 Ahelvin wrote:
I would hate it as a Zerg.
Let's imagine a Zerg would spawn at 6 (Bottom), Terran at 8 (Bottom left) -> Free nukes/Tanks bombing in Zerg's natural, directly from Terrain's main !
He specifically said to limit the spawns to 2 and 8.
Wow, I never thought of this, but it actually would work really well like that. I do think the golds would be near impossible to hold unless you've basically won anyway.
|
Agreed. Looking at it as a 1v1 map makes it looks spectacular at a glance. Will try it out later with a friend and see how it pans out. Looks like it could shake out to be metalopolis-esque, with each player looking at 5 expansions + gold on their own side, or mixing it up with expanding to natural, then expanding vertically from there, instead of winding all the way around to the 3rd.
Even if you roll dice to make it switch between 1 of the 2 spawns for each player, then you get some variation/need for scouting while still having a pretty big map. Only thing that makes me dislike that idea would be one player getting rocks and the other not, so maybe even make it force either 1 set of positions, or the other, never one player with rocks, one without.
Just some things to be noted, cliffs help Terran and Protoss defend their 2nd/3rd with tanks and colossi/blink. Open spawns/expansions promotes drops/nydus from all races. Small amount of room behind spawns/expansions promote mutalisk harrass. Overall doesn't seem too favored to any one race, besides the tanks/colossi on cliffs being a major help for 2nd/3rd base defense.
|
On December 16 2010 01:36 Ahelvin wrote:
I would hate it as a Zerg.
Let's imagine a Zerg would spawn at 6 (Bottom), Terran at 8 (Bottom left) -> Free nukes/Tanks bombing in Zerg's natural, directly from Terrain's main !
you didn't even read the first god damn line of the thread before jumping in with your opinion? Are you joking???? Jesus christ that pisses me off.
|
I like the idea of putting this in over either Blistering Sands or DQ. And it's a far better shot for Blizz to put this in than it is for a custom map to make it...make a thread about this on the B-net forums, maybe, and see if there's a response? It might just be wishful thinking, but the negative reaction to bad GSL maps makes me think that a half-decent Blizz map like this one could make the pool.
|
United States9920 Posts
that actually works out nicely. unlike the other 2v2 maps where you share the base, shared nats etc., arid wastes is like the classis 2v2 on python maps in SCBW.
|
take out the more central players naturals and im all for it, (or add a ramp there or something)
|
Good idea. I'm always up for some good macro maps.
|
Now that I look at it, it really does look like a very good 1v1 map! (at least compared to the current ladder maps xD)
It is indeed quite large and has quite a lot of bases, while not being actually "big" like Shakuras. I like how there are several "paths' you can take to your opponent or away from him, attacking paths and expansion paths.
Hmm, perhaps someone should make a quick mod of it as a 1v1 and only allow the top right and bottom left to be spawns? Even compared to ICCUP maps this would be interesting to play on.
Also I agree, the middle is not too open due to the towers, and the towers don't provide extreme map control either.
|
On December 15 2010 15:20 o3.power91 wrote:Maybe if they take out the 2 unused mains, it may work... With those mains there, a person securing the natural will be able to take the main as a 4th relatively easily I think. If you take out those mains and flatten the road (maybe leaving a pair of destructible rocks between the corner and the 3rd base sort of like between mains in Shakuras). Maybe even moving the gold to the area between those 2 rocks. The way the gold is now, 1v1 if you are able to take one safely, chances are you've won the game. Bah, what the hell do I know? I'm just spewing stuff that sounds good to me
I sort of like this idea, but I think it would be better implemented if you tilted the map and made the main's close and the naturals are facing in such a way so that you were expanding away from your opponent if you spawn close positions, like in LT or Python:
+ Show Spoiler +
More changes would need to be made from here, but it's definitely a good idea.
|
I liked the idea. It never occured to think of it as pure 2 player map, i always thought the shakuras way and that wouldnt have worked, but yeah, its seeems worth a try.
|
This actually makes a lot of goddamn sense. There's no silly back door into the main, taking a 3rd and 4th base is incredibly viable yet they come with a risk (rocks outside the 4th), nice big and open map. I really dig it. Somewhat reminds me of Broodwar maps with such an open center.
|
Hm if no one's gonna do it, I'll make a 1v1 version of this ASAP tomorrow :D I'm on NA server so I'll upload it as like "Arid Wastes 1v1" or something like that.
Seems like we got a patch today but no chat channels? but i'm sure we'll get them soon. And it'll be much easier to play more "rare" but "better" maps like this. Hey may be we'll even see this as a top popular 1v1 custom melee map xD
Edit: Wow thinking more into this, the economic potential on this map is really huge... I was thinking about removing the no-longer-a-main plateau, or at least removing the resources there (or keep the main but not the no-longer-a-main's natural), or possibly removing the high yields from the center and replacing the no-longer-a-main with them, but I think it would be better/safer a move just to reduce the resources there, may be make the natural (your possible third) mineral only, and the main (your possible 4th) have 2 gas 6 minerals or something, which would encourage the players closer to each other (the bottom left player could expand through the rocks upwards, and then to the right, instead of both players going right/left which would lead into constant huge battles in the middle due to many ramps)?
But anyways yea i'll most likely be able to get just a straight-port to a 1v1 out in NA server tomorrow
|
For a 1v1 version, I'd change the following:
-Add DRs to the high yield expansions
-Remove the DRs at the backdoors of the 6 and 12 expansions, and maybe increase the size of both of the ramps that lead to those bases
At first I thought this was a terrible idea, then I thought about it a little bit more, and this is actually a great idea because it almost is ready for 1v1 gameplay. I hope to see this up by tomorrow!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://img52.imageshack.us/i/381losttemplesc2.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img547.imageshack.us/i/147python.jpg/)
