EPTMap Collaboration Thread - Page 4
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Yellow-Snow
United States55 Posts
I can't make maps tho. I need the triggers all set (Its pretty simple). I have 2 people in the top 20 NA who can help balance it. Please someone PM me and add your name to this amazing idea! | ||
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
On December 30 2010 18:07 Barrin wrote: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CeUQP.jpg) I would remove the gap between the gas and the ramp to the main and also add some more space behind the nat (to make defending air harass easier). Maybe also increase the space behind the 4ths (thos expos on low ground). I also think there are enough flanking opportunities for zerg when controlling the mid - so you don't need more open space in my opinion. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
-- Id like to have a chat with someone about doodads and decals. Need some tips n tricks , specially with decals , how they work and how to make the best of it. Its where im lacking most I feel. also /bump also why isnt this thread sticky  | ||
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baskerville
541 Posts
+1 (even though i think "sticked threads count" should remain low) + Show Spoiler + i'm always up to "help" any mapmaker if i can edit2: Barrin and the doodads,: the real test issue is "can you attack the doodad from the proper pathing (ie: the one u decided to have) ? ranged units are not really a problem, but melee attack is a bitch.. you have to test it to avoid (or specifically implement) the "can't reach/attack" the doodad from any direction by a melee attack" result... that is always the issue since that's what the "destructible doodads" are there for (further "closing up" within narrow pathways.. height / cliff differentials and of course ramps and bridges | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
After some worrying and redrawing of concepts (I wanted the possibility to always expand both towards and from your enemy) I finally managed to come up with some general ideas which I thought would fit nicely together. The result is something which seems to be a mix between Metalopolis, Scrap Station and Xel'naga Caverns. Not sure if that is a good thing though. So I'm looking for help with layout & balance: + Show Spoiler [Analyzer overview] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4mIBr.jpg) + Show Spoiler [Rush distances] + Close: 112 Mid: 116 Cross: 150 I'm concerned that...
Note that the highground next to the natural will be unpathable, so drops won't work there. Also, I want to have LoS blockers, but not sure to where to place them yet, so suggestions welcome. Hope you can help, I'd like to have a better balance score in the next MotM, at least!  | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On January 14 2011 23:29 NullCurrent wrote:
I do not think that a backdoor between naturals always is a bad idea. what you did here is very strange, because the backdoor leads far into the natural, partly because of the strange position of the natural, which is behind the main's ramp. normally attackers have to move through the natural up to the ramp. here there is the normal entry point(main choke of natural far away from natural's minerals, but close to ramp, which already might be bad, but things become even more difficult, because the choke ios at the other end of the natural. i hope i made it clear enough, but there is a real problem of positioning vs early attacks when in close position. on the other hand, the backdoor is an unbelievable long choke and not very intuitiv to use unless in close position. when you would do a time push early on trying to get through all these DRs you are hopelessly out of position back their when the attack is going wrong. somehow it does not look very attractive. i have a suggestion, but i will cover another point first... On January 14 2011 23:29 NullCurrent wrote:
first thing is you should have your ramp moved a bit away from main choke (infront of natural). at the 6oclock position i would move the ramp 90° clockwise and change the outline of the main a bit, to make all distances a bit longer. this changes the close position more in relation to the cross-position. also i would rotate the natural's minerals, sothat they face the entry point of the backdoor. --- wait, what? facing the backdoor? well only the current version's backdoor. i would actually move it 'in front' of the island. or you rather delete the backdoor and use the islands rocks as a backdoor. then you out a ramp at the current position of the watchtower and bend the island's cliff-corners out. by that you further elnarge the lose distance rush distance and produce a backdoor that really has some shortcut character. i think the ramp is usefull to only have to break one DR instead of two. you should also get rid of the second entrance into the main, I think. you could make this by enlarging the main in this direction. then you have to control the area infront of the semi-island map, instead of standing in your natural to defend against backdoor attacks. On January 14 2011 23:29 NullCurrent wrote:
to change these two thinks i would suggest to get rid of central HY expansions and bring the two halfs of the map closer together. also i would make a pyramid like structure/highround into the centre that helps to take map control and counter this with the watchtowers (NW and SE of this 1-cliff plattform). get rid of island-watchtowers. make third expansions bigger! and extend towards centre (now xelnaga near gold) that's what i would do, hope you find some points interesting. ask if anything is unclear,+ Show Spoiler + it was a long day at work | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On January 15 2011 02:54 iGrok wrote: Null, are those rush distances main 2 main or nat 2 nat? Main to main, so they might be a bit short :/ I'm currently considering Samro255am's post, so it might take a while until I have a proper reply But go ahead, more constructive critique is always good | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On January 15 2011 02:30 Samro225am wrote: maybe i could help you with some suggestions on layout + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2011 23:29 NullCurrent wrote:
I do not think that a backdoor between naturals always is a bad idea. what you did here is very strange, because the backdoor leads far into the natural, partly because of the strange position of the natural, which is behind the main's ramp. normally attackers have to move through the natural up to the ramp. here there is the normal entry point(main choke of natural far away from natural's minerals, but close to ramp, which already might be bad, but things become even more difficult, because the choke ios at the other end of the natural. i hope i made it clear enough, but there is a real problem of positioning vs early attacks when in close position. on the other hand, the backdoor is an unbelievable long choke and not very intuitiv to use unless in close position. when you would do a time push early on trying to get through all these DRs you are hopelessly out of position back their when the attack is going wrong. somehow it does not look very attractive. i have a suggestion, but i will cover another point first... On January 14 2011 23:29 NullCurrent wrote:
first thing is you should have your ramp moved a bit away from main choke (infront of natural). at the 6oclock position i would move the ramp 90° clockwise and change the outline of the main a bit, to make all distances a bit longer. this changes the close position more in relation to the cross-position. also i would rotate the natural's minerals, sothat they face the entry point of the backdoor. --- wait, what? facing the backdoor? well only the current version's backdoor. i would actually move it 'in front' of the island. or you rather delete the backdoor and use the islands rocks as a backdoor. then you out a ramp at the current position of the watchtower and bend the island's cliff-corners out. by that you further elnarge the lose distance rush distance and produce a backdoor that really has some shortcut character. i think the ramp is usefull to only have to break one DR instead of two. you should also get rid of the second entrance into the main, I think. you could make this by enlarging the main in this direction. then you have to control the area infront of the semi-island map, instead of standing in your natural to defend against backdoor attacks. On January 14 2011 23:29 NullCurrent wrote:
to change these two thinks i would suggest to get rid of central HY expansions and bring the two halfs of the map closer together. also i would make a pyramid like structure/highround into the centre that helps to take map control and counter this with the watchtowers (NW and SE of this 1-cliff plattform). get rid of island-watchtowers. make third expansions bigger! and extend towards centre (now xelnaga near gold) that's what i would do, hope you find some points interesting. ask if anything is unclear,+ Show Spoiler + it was a long day at work Thanks a lot! Now I "just" have to remake most of my map  But it is ok, the backdoor was an experiment, which I thought might work well at first, but now I think it is only ok when not on close spawns (and as you said, the narrow path is kinda awkward). And the center was not something I was happy about, but the current layout around it, well, "asked for it" :/ Currently I'm trying to implement the half island in another way to make that the backdoor and also to make the nat to nat rush distance longer. I'll also increase the size of the thirds for rush distance between 9 oclock to 6 oclock. Do you think I should use rocks there too to make the early game rush distance longer (just as with the half-island)? On January 15 2011 03:02 iGrok wrote: Yeah, thats a bit short. Nat to nat is really what you want to look at, and have it be between 100 and 150 Good to know, didn't really think about the natural to natural distance, currently moving stuff to increase that. | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On January 15 2011 03:41 Samro225am wrote: unsure about too many rocks... try to get rush distances ok by moving third, main, nat. Hmm... moving third, main and nat, that is pretty much the whole map Well, I'm trying to avoid using too many rocks, so after I try a few things, I'll upload a new analyzer picture. So let's hope that one will be better | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
Completely redid middle (which opened up the thirds a lot). Still not sure if it is good :/ What I'm unsure about is the middle and the watchtower placement. + Show Spoiler [Analyzer summary] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FWDt5.jpg) + Show Spoiler [Rush distances] + Nat to nat: short: 108 mid: 121 cross: 138 main to main: short: 136 mid: 141 cross: 166 | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
I love the idea of this thread, though. I see it as a great place to discuss new map ideas. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
In my mind I'm rotating your map 45° clockwise, so try to follow me with that in mind. I think you should try changing the top and bottom XWTs. Switch them and the ramp that leads to them, so the ramp leads directly from the middle third. This will let you remove the middle two towers, which you don't need anyways and are just clogging the middle. There are a lot of choked up areas on this map. | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
This made me start the editor with an empty map and try to recreate what I thought was good. And that resulted in this: + Show Spoiler [Analyzer summary] + Blue lines are LOS blockers ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0PY7O.jpg) + Show Spoiler [Rush distances] + Natural to natural: Short: 94.5 Mid: 102.2 (not counting rocks) Long: 119 Main to main: Short: 140 Mid: 155 (not counting backdoor) Long: 173 The primary questions I have are:
Of course, if you find anything else to comment on, please do | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
I'm not sure you need the islands, but theres nothing wrong with having them. You might make them a tiny bit bigger though | ||
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
no need for islands. you can use the space much better with islands between mains. and fourth a bit to outside. | ||
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