Reposting with rough textures to show areas.

I see what u meant about too much choking I considered it some and this is what I came up with. I think I like it a lot more now tbh.

Oh and don't worry about straight lines that'll change

This is just the basic idea.

I am looking for help with layout and balance please.
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Overview:
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Analyzer:
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Same as before: just looking for things I should look out for.

A 2 player map with 16 bases is simply too many. The map has a lot of wasted space and is simply too big. If you were to cut out 6 to 8 bases, and compress the map so a lot of the paths were narrower and the whole map more compact in general you might be on the right track. I'd do away with the Islands and the corner expansions since they're so tucked away the only way they're getting attacked is with something like a drop, and by the time you have any hope to defend the expansion is completely dead.

I'll give a few tips to you personally as it seems to be sort of a recurring theme amongst your maps that I've seen recently: One of the hardest things to do in the editor is to properly estimate scale. Things in the editor seem a lot smaller than they actually are in-game. This is a bit of a double-edged sword though, you have to be careful not to overestimate and make the map too small 8)

The other thing that I wanted to mention is the simplicity of your maps. This map's expansion path is simply too complex and a lot of your maps seem like they've got a lot of really fantastic ideas, but they're being masked by the fact that you're trying to blend them all into a single map. Save some for later!

If you work around the constraint that a 2 player map should have no less than 8 maps and no more than 10 (12 is sometimes okay but your design really has to work with it).

I hope this helps 8)

iGrok

United States5142 Posts

December 26 2010 17:30 GMT

#45

Updated the front page to reflect how this thread is used

EDIT (to prevent double post):

I'm starting a new UMS project, and I need someone who is comfortable with the data editor. You should be able to create new units and spells, add custom models. I'll be helping to do all this, but its too huge for me to do by my self.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

December 27 2010 07:10 GMT

#46

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prodiG

Canada2016 Posts

December 27 2010 07:42 GMT

#47

I look forward to seeing the smaller version 8)

I'm actually coming here for a bit of assistance this time! I need help testing the map to anwer one very simple question:
Does the rotational symmetry of this map combined with it's features create the necessity to force cross positions? (ie: Do cross positions generate a better enough experience to merit negating horizontal and vertical positions, or does leaving it make the map interesting in that one player has to expand away for a third). I'm not looking to discuss the layout, just to answer that one question (but if you show me replays of something else being fundamentally broken I'll be sure to check it out, as usual.)

Here's the map

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Neo Enigma BETA - Shrank down! Less open! Still a big macro map! :D! I'd post a bigger pic, but my "export map image" button doesn't want to render terrain anymore (yes, I have the box checked.) - If you know why this is please please please tell me!
NOTE: Black texturing is unpathable. The lowground center is unbuildable (checkerboarded for creep tumors).

[image loading]

Search Neo Enigma BETA to play and then tell me what you think! (Only up on US.) Right now, I'm leaning towards not changing it as it creates some tension based on the spawns without completely shafting the player who's worse off out of an expansion. If testing proves this to not be the case then I will force cross positions only.

Thanks in advance~

iGrok

United States5142 Posts

December 27 2010 07:52 GMT

#48

Arg, You're going to make me stay awake and play this. I'll play a couple times and post my reactions in the morning

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

December 27 2010 07:53 GMT

#49

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prodiG

Canada2016 Posts

December 27 2010 07:57 GMT

#50

On December 27 2010 16:53 Barrin wrote:
...Hey that looks like Enigma!!! ...Oh!

Just like Enigma, I think close positions here are just fine (Actually that 4th is a little funky... in ZvT if the Z spawns clockwise close position then when the T takes the 4th he can too easily siege Z's 3rd). But if you were to force cross positions, is there really any point in having 4 spawning positions? Perhaps this is not one of them, but in most such cases I would expect that having just 2 spawning locations would make more sense.

The point is that the highground third harasses the lowground third (specifically the gas) without interfering with the center, and still leaves your natural entrance wide open to be punished if you overcommit.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

December 27 2010 08:53 GMT

#51

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Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

December 27 2010 11:10 GMT

#52

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Antares777

United States1971 Posts

December 28 2010 14:14 GMT

#53

Hey, I was wondering if anyone who is good at lighting could help me with lighting on my map Relic. I tried fooling around with it on another map, but it didn't turn out the way that I wanted it to.
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Thread

If anyone would be kind enough to help that would be great!

iGrok

United States5142 Posts

December 28 2010 14:26 GMT

#54

Yeah sure, email igrok.motm@gmail.com

Lioness

Canada35 Posts

December 28 2010 15:14 GMT

#55

ProdiG- I haven't played any games on it as of yet but my first impression is that imbalance of spawning clockwise especially against a T or P would be very annoying. It's not terrible as it's preferable to expand away from you opponent anyways but i don't think i would ever want to take that 3rd which is just kind of a shitty feeling for that player.

funcmode

Australia720 Posts

December 28 2010 15:26 GMT

#56

If you're thinking about forcing cross positions, I don't understand why you don't just redesign the map as a 2-player map. Whether the players spawn at 12v6 or 3v9 is pretty irrelevant and nothing but a novelty.

On December 27 2010 16:42 prodiG wrote:
I'm leaning towards not changing it as it creates some tension based on the spawns without completely shafting the player who's worse off out of an expansion...

So positional imbalances are OK as long as they don't completely shaft one of the players? Seems like a bad approach to me.

Antares777

United States1971 Posts

December 28 2010 16:35 GMT

#57

On December 28 2010 23:26 iGrok wrote:
Yeah sure, email igrok.motm@gmail.com

Thanks a bunch man, I just the email.

EffectS

Belgium795 Posts

December 28 2010 16:50 GMT

#58

Hi guys, I'm trying make an unconventional 3 player map. And I need alot of help with balancing at this point. Cause it's "unconventional" I made the whole map from scratch, so without mirroring or turning any parts of the map. This was very hard for me cause I'm trying to make it a competitive map but it's near impossible to make all the bases equal in size. I think I did somewhat of a good job so far on the main bases, but the positioning on the natural & third could improve I guess? Also the shape of the main can be a problem at some bases I figure.

Anywho, I'll post top-down view + analyzer?

Top-down:
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Analyzer:
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Zero.Tha.Hero

Canada155 Posts

December 29 2010 11:57 GMT

#59

I would like to participate in collaborative mapping efforts, working in the areas of map layout, terrain, and balance. My head is filled with creative geometry, however my biggest obstacle is the more artistic aspect of mapping. On that note, I would be willing to credit a graphic guru for some assistance on the aesthetics of my new map Midgard.

Cave

Sweden18 Posts

December 29 2010 15:07 GMT

#60

Hello modders, I would like to offer my services as an Audio man for your maps. I'm also interested in artistic environment if someone needs some people for that. I know some basic 3d MAX stuff.

I'll in the future upload some of my work on youtube for a showcase of what music I've made.