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Short Main to Natural distance This is very important for early game zerg (maybe protoss as well). Zerg should optimally only need one or two creep tumors to reach from main to nat otherwise it's difficult in the early game. Zerg really needs their creep in the early game to defend vs early game strategies. Especially since a terran could scan and kill the tumors at a very early stage in the game if he was inclined to do so. I have been thinking a lot about this and I have a few things to add:
For 1-basing zergs the shorter the distance your main hatchery is to your ramp the better. Take this into consideration when spacing these things out.
I also wanted to say that while this means a lot for the first two bases, people shouldn't get the wrong idea and think that it should necessarily be like that for 3rd or extra bases. Sure the closer bases are together the easier it is to spread creep tumor, but you have to understand that zerg's strength already is mobility, and you're not always defending. What if you're attacking? It's so much easier for the zerg player to harass 3rd+ expansions when the ground distance the opposing player needs to defend them is fairly long.
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in bw, zerg's strength was mobility. But in this game it is the exact opposite.
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in bw, zerg's strength was mobility. But in this game it is the exact opposite. I don't necessarily agree with this. Certainly it isn't to the point it was in BW, but zerg can be very mobile. The major difference IMO Is that the other races can be pretty mobile too depending on what units they make.
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Just wanted to bump this for a few tips for main base/expansions.
- Maps without main base ramps (or something similar to the ramp dynamic) seems to be terrible for PvP. They have to go 4 warp gate. Something to do about sentry forcefield as well as the line of sight/free hits that a high ground provides.
- For a similar reason in ZvZ/ZvT, zergs need a choke where they can place about 2 queens or 2-3 roaches side by side on the main ramp to wall out units (or ooze close enough to use bldgs to narrow choke down for even less units needed to block it). Having the LoS helps too, but is not required.
- Besides checking around bases for seige tank range, one should take account of the LoS for proxy pylons for warping in units inside enemy base. It should either be limited 1 or 2 locations, and then the amount of units that can be warped in at once should be controlled as well. I'm not sure how I feel about it to begin with though because it seems like protoss can lay the pylon much earlier before an attack, battle inside and then instantly have reinforcements right at the ongoing battle without having to tech to air units or bring a probe inside to drop a pylon.
- There is a really difficult (possibly imbalanced) trend of protoss/terran using 2 bunker/ 2 pylon to wall the bottom of a zerg ramp. Fill with reaper/marine or put canon behind out of range. Or even just making it so zeals can hold position there. Sometimes crawlers can't even reach, queen/roach range is too short etc. I would suggest making the outside openings of main bases slightly unbuildable or requiring more buildings to pull off this kind of strat to make it more of an investment and harder to recover from if countered properly.
PS- I dunno if I mentioned this earlier but you can make a unit and select it and see its range. So this is best used for: Tanks, XWT,Pylon,and Creep tumors when making maps. for the last two you need to go View>Show Terrain>Show Power/Creep.
Tanks have 13 square range, pylon 7, XWT 21, Tumor 10 (but only 9 for up and right sides) which is interesting in itself. This means that zerg bases that spawn top or right side with expansions that move down or left have slightly better creep spreading towards the enemy the entire way across the map. Could be a bug.
And if anyone cares a decent size main base is around 25x25. I probably wouldn't go over 35x35. CC needs 5x5 to be placed between minerals/gas.
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Apart from smaller maps being bad for zerg because of the rush distance, they also make Nydus Wurms fairly inefficient. The longer the distance, better Nydus Wurms are in comparision to dropships.
Regarding main base size: Zerg either want it to be huge, so there is space to hide a nydus and space to fight inside and kite Zealots with Zerglings, or then tiny, so that the other races have problems fitting all their stuff inside.
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On September 27 2010 06:52 Amadi wrote: Apart from smaller maps being bad for zerg because of the rush distance, they also make Nydus Wurms fairly inefficient. The longer the distance, better Nydus Wurms are in comparision to dropships.
Regarding main base size: Zerg either want it to be huge, so there is space to hide a nydus and space to fight inside and kite Zealots with Zerglings, or then tiny, so that the other races have problems fitting all their stuff inside.
to be honest, I don't see nydus to be intended as an offensive thing the way people are using it.
It's like trying to rely on a nuke for a counter attack or something. Only the nuke has HP and cost 100x as much.
Nydus is supposed to be used as a gate between far distanced base where the creep highway can't be stretched in time (or has been killed).
I mean I'm not saying nydus should never be used offensively, it has it's uses, but drops are more effective at this anyways. It should really only have a few specific situations where it would be warranted.
So having a huge base isn't good for zerg imo, It makes you have to spread creep around as defense inside your base which is extra work. A small ass base would be ideal.
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100% agree with Amadi
or ooze close enough to use bldgs to narrow choke down for even less units needed to block it Ah damn someone else thought of it too :D I wanted to keep that one for myself for a bit. Unless you didn't mean having the creep already there with no tumors :X
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Oh wow I just had an idea. What if you were to just fill the center of a map with a bunch of neutral creep tumors? That wasn't actually a question. Here's the answer: It would be very awesome for zerg.
Damn... the more I think about it the more I realize this could single-handedly make any map zerg favored if you put enough creep tumors on it lolol. My next map is supposed to be utterly zerg favored but if I were to do this, it would hardly seem like its my layout that's zerg-favored and more like it's just zerg favored because of the creep. Hmmmm.
I will have to test to see if those creep doodads are actually creep too so you could make unkillable creep.
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Yea, Putting neutral creep on a map is possible. I don't think you even need tumors, You can just spatter it around and make it stay indefinitely. Not 100% sure on this for melee, but i've definitely seen it in UMSs.
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Yea, Putting neutral creep on a map is possible. I don't think you even need tumors, You can just spatter it around and make it stay indefinitely. Not 100% sure on this for melee, but i've definitely seen it in UMSs. True but the way it is now it hardly matters whether it's a 'melee' or 'UMS' map. /slap @ blizzard
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