• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:23
CEST 21:23
KST 04:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles2[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 669 users

[G] Map Design Consideration Tips - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
September 11 2010 22:52 GMT
#21
--- Nuked ---
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
September 12 2010 02:34 GMT
#22
in bw, zerg's strength was mobility. But in this game it is the exact opposite.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
September 16 2010 16:12 GMT
#23
--- Nuked ---
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 17:54:57
September 26 2010 17:05 GMT
#24
Just wanted to bump this for a few tips for main base/expansions.
  • Maps without main base ramps (or something similar to the ramp dynamic) seems to be terrible for PvP. They have to go 4 warp gate. Something to do about sentry forcefield as well as the line of sight/free hits that a high ground provides.
  • For a similar reason in ZvZ/ZvT, zergs need a choke where they can place about 2 queens or 2-3 roaches side by side on the main ramp to wall out units (or ooze close enough to use bldgs to narrow choke down for even less units needed to block it). Having the LoS helps too, but is not required.
  • Besides checking around bases for seige tank range, one should take account of the LoS for proxy pylons for warping in units inside enemy base. It should either be limited 1 or 2 locations, and then the amount of units that can be warped in at once should be controlled as well. I'm not sure how I feel about it to begin with though because it seems like protoss can lay the pylon much earlier before an attack, battle inside and then instantly have reinforcements right at the ongoing battle without having to tech to air units or bring a probe inside to drop a pylon.
  • There is a really difficult (possibly imbalanced) trend of protoss/terran using 2 bunker/ 2 pylon to wall the bottom of a zerg ramp. Fill with reaper/marine or put canon behind out of range. Or even just making it so zeals can hold position there. Sometimes crawlers can't even reach, queen/roach range is too short etc. I would suggest making the outside openings of main bases slightly unbuildable or requiring more buildings to pull off this kind of strat to make it more of an investment and harder to recover from if countered properly.



PS- I dunno if I mentioned this earlier but you can make a unit and select it and see its range. So this is best used for: Tanks, XWT,Pylon,and Creep tumors when making maps.
for the last two you need to go View>Show Terrain>Show Power/Creep.

Tanks have 13 square range, pylon 7, XWT 21, Tumor 10 (but only 9 for up and right sides) which is interesting in itself. This means that zerg bases that spawn top or right side with expansions that move down or left have slightly better creep spreading towards the enemy the entire way across the map. Could be a bug.

And if anyone cares a decent size main base is around 25x25. I probably wouldn't go over 35x35. CC needs 5x5 to be placed between minerals/gas.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Amadi
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland139 Posts
September 26 2010 21:52 GMT
#25
Apart from smaller maps being bad for zerg because of the rush distance, they also make Nydus Wurms fairly inefficient. The longer the distance, better Nydus Wurms are in comparision to dropships.

Regarding main base size: Zerg either want it to be huge, so there is space to hide a nydus and space to fight inside and kite Zealots with Zerglings, or then tiny, so that the other races have problems fitting all their stuff inside.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-27 07:56:34
September 27 2010 07:51 GMT
#26
On September 27 2010 06:52 Amadi wrote:
Apart from smaller maps being bad for zerg because of the rush distance, they also make Nydus Wurms fairly inefficient. The longer the distance, better Nydus Wurms are in comparision to dropships.

Regarding main base size: Zerg either want it to be huge, so there is space to hide a nydus and space to fight inside and kite Zealots with Zerglings, or then tiny, so that the other races have problems fitting all their stuff inside.


to be honest, I don't see nydus to be intended as an offensive thing the way people are using it.

It's like trying to rely on a nuke for a counter attack or something. Only the nuke has HP and cost 100x as much.

Nydus is supposed to be used as a gate between far distanced base where the creep highway can't be stretched in time (or has been killed).


I mean I'm not saying nydus should never be used offensively, it has it's uses, but drops are more effective at this anyways. It should really only have a few specific situations where it would be warranted.

So having a huge base isn't good for zerg imo, It makes you have to spread creep around as defense inside your base which is extra work.
A small ass base would be ideal.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-27 08:29:41
September 27 2010 08:05 GMT
#27
--- Nuked ---
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-27 09:18:30
September 27 2010 09:18 GMT
#28
Yea, Putting neutral creep on a map is possible. I don't think you even need tumors, You can just spatter it around and make it stay indefinitely. Not 100% sure on this for melee, but i've definitely seen it in UMSs.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
September 27 2010 16:22 GMT
#29
--- Nuked ---
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:00
Rotti Stream Rumble 4k Edition
RotterdaM957
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 957
Hui .151
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1137
firebathero 218
Bonyth 83
sas.Sziky 59
Rock 11
Dota 2
qojqva3458
Pyrionflax44
League of Legends
Grubby3982
Counter-Strike
fl0m1618
Fnx 1412
ScreaM880
shoxiejesuss679
flusha379
sgares117
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu99
Other Games
summit1g1255
Beastyqt946
B2W.Neo929
ceh9616
KnowMe191
ToD171
mouzStarbuck162
Mew2King136
oskar134
Trikslyr69
Sick51
ZombieGrub49
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick49841
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 268
• LUISG 11
• Reevou 10
• OhrlRock 4
• davetesta1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 16
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2623
League of Legends
• Jankos2301
• TFBlade1126
Other Games
• imaqtpie1705
• Shiphtur517
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 37m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 37m
WardiTV European League
20h 37m
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 4h
The PondCast
1d 14h
WardiTV European League
1d 16h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.