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Osaka27149 Posts
Sorry China.
After extensive dicussion amongst the TSL staff, well-known gamers, and members of the Chinese gaming community, we have decided to prohibit all gamers residing in China from qualifying for the playoffs of the TSL.
The reason for this is simple; game quality. There are many connection problems between Chinese IPs and European or American gamers. These problems will only be magnified when two casters and an observer are present. Rather than have issues during broadcast times, we will avoid the situation altogether.
For the TSL staff, the quality of the league is paramount to the considerations of individual gamers. I apologize to those Chinese gamers who have already invested time in the league, but we felt it was better to make this clear now rather than later. Gamers are still welcome to participate in the ladder, but will not be eligible for qualification.
If you have any questions of comments, please PM Manifesto7.
Thank you,
TSL Staff
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United States24680 Posts
Why are there connection problems with China specifically? I'm not doubting that there are, but I'm kinda curious.
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16986 Posts
Probably the government firewall.
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my mom is dead on april 1st
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On April 01 2008 12:14 LetMeBeWithYou wrote:
my mom is dead on april 1st
wut
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WUT. China... T_T This sucks  oh well
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Bye Pj and Lx.
Sorry for all you residing in China. They have decent players too.
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On April 01 2008 13:13 thunk wrote:
Bye Pj and Lx.
Sorry for all you residing in China. They have decent players too.
to say the least
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
ooo...damn and i was getting excited with seeing rushgoon and fengzi and whoever on the ladder list too -___-
wasn't there that GG client or whatever program that made it better? o well
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United States20661 Posts
Yeah I was really excited to see the Chinese gosus
It's really too bad. ;; sorry China!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Yeah it really sucks guys but would you rather it now, or say a Mondi vs PJ final that we can't broadcast due to lag :p
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Osaka27149 Posts
Believe me, this was not a decision made lightly. However, with our desire to broadcast the games, it would be far worse to be in a situation where lag ruins the experience for the viewers and the integrity of the league.
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sometimes life just isnt fair 
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On April 01 2008 13:53 Worked! wrote:sometimes life just isnt fair
qft
the decision makes sense, i just wish the chinese players had better connections, i've always wanted to see how the top chinese gamers stacked up vs other top non koreans - xLo gave me a bit when the recruited a lot of chinese players, but they died like 3 weeks afterwards ;p
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Gamers are still welcome to participate in the ladder, but will not be eligible for qualification.
wouldn't this make harder for players to see their current spots and rankings in TSL?
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United States24680 Posts
On April 01 2008 14:16 CapO wrote:Show nested quote +Gamers are still welcome to participate in the ladder, but will not be eligible for qualification.
wouldn't this make harder for players to see their current spots and rankings in TSL?
It shouldn't be too bad since
A) the Chinese players are labeled clearly
B) they don't participate too seriously anyway
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I was really hoping to see pj or fengzi play. Too bad.
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On April 01 2008 14:01 littlechava wrote:qft the decision makes sense, i just wish the chinese players had better connections, i've always wanted to see how the top chinese gamers stacked up vs other top non koreans - xLo gave me a bit when the recruited a lot of chinese players, but they died like 3 weeks afterwards ;p
Many Chinese players have to play at 2 a.m or even 4 a.m for xlo clan war,at last xlo didnt pay money for any Chinese player just due to their lag or some communicate barrier reasons.but xlo never talked about it with them until using them 3 weeks lol.
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That's too bad. That's almost 2 years salary for some in China.
I was predicting China to win most of the money since they were 2nd only to Korea. Now I can't guess who will win TL Starleague. It's makes it more interesting
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just so everyone knows:
The korean term "gosu", which l337 posters like to drop, comes from the chinese “gaoshou” （高手）. It literally means "high hand" or advanced player or "badass".
anyway, i hope the China  is an APRIL FOOLS joke. otherwise RIDIC
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I believe this is a joke because there are plenty of countries that participate and have much worse connections than chinese. Just watch TLAttack or Ascension vods and you'll see that lag is a problem in every country when creating international games.
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I highly doubt this is a joke. Chinese internet is ridiculously worse than every other country's internet. Good decision, although this is quite sad
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
Manifesto7 Japan. April 01 2008 13:48. Posts 12065
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On April 01 2008 18:52 Spenguin wrote:
Manifesto7 Japan. April 01 2008 13:48. Posts 12065
What does that have to with the banning? He's a white guy from Canada IIRC.
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lol... ~_~ all u racist cunts!~
i mean in theory, they can all fly down to some where say hongkong and play the playoff right? ~_~
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On April 01 2008 18:58 [X]Ken_D wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2008 18:52 Spenguin wrote:
Manifesto7 Japan. April 01 2008 13:48. Posts 12065 What does that have to with the banning? He's a white guy from Canada IIRC.
he was joking. ~_~
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Zurich15328 Posts
I like this one because it is not as obvious as a dedicated news post.
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Was the Chinese informed of this?
Because I afraid not many may understand english T.T
Well i guess the chinese gaming site will translate this news..
Poor China...
Maybe they can come to Hong Kong to play =P
THe connection is better here.
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8748 Posts
I don't think any Chinese players should have hard feelings about it because they have the PGL which has more money and equal or easier competition and it's happening at the same time as the TSL. They can all focus on that now rather than trying to keep two options open.
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Here stood nonsense. -.,-
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On April 01 2008 20:37 zatic wrote:
I like this one because it is not as obvious as a dedicated news post.
...check out the "[TSL] The First 36 Hours" news post. It's not dedicated but you get the point. 
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On April 01 2008 21:01 NonY[rC] wrote:
I don't think any Chinese players should have hard feelings about it because they have the PGL which has more money and equal or easier competition and it's happening at the same time as the TSL. They can all focus on that now rather than trying to keep two options open.
I disagree. Hosting an "international" event and letting only developed countries with good internet connection while banning the rest is just not really fair. Everybody deserves a chance to show what they've got. You cannot "assume" their connection is not good enough for the stream server UNTIL YOU TRY IT WITH THEM (which I hope the staffs did do it before issuing the ban to ALL Chinese IPs). A very poor decison made by the staff this time IMHO.
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Yeah but what do you do when they get into the game and ARE lagging.
Do you kick them then and replace them with someone else? That will be even more ludicrous.
In saying that however you can get lag issues with anyone, but it's less likely to happen without the Chinese players.
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It's a tough call either way, but you can understand why the TL folk did it.
Just curious though; Russian and even Australian folk are known to have lag issues sometimes so what happens if you are in an important game and it becomes unbearably laggy? Will the rep be saved and commented on later?
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8748 Posts
On April 01 2008 21:56 LibertyTerran wrote:
I disagree. Hosting an "international" event and letting only developed countries with good internet connection while banning the rest is just not really fair.
Excluding only two countries in the world is not enough to warrant putting international in quotes. The event is still overwhelmingly international. There are many developing/underdeveloped countries participating so saying that only developed countries can participate is simply incorrect. As far as allowing only participants with good internet connections, what else do you expect? Is it not fair that LANs only allow participants with bodies? You put this "rule" in a negative light but really it should be in a positive light: anyone who is able to participate is allowed to participate.
On April 01 2008 21:56 LibertyTerran wrote:Everybody deserves a chance to show what they've got.
We agree. China has PGL running simultaneously to TSL with broadcasted games and more prize money. Go for it Chinese players!
On April 01 2008 21:56 LibertyTerran wrote:You cannot "assume" their connection is not good enough for the stream server UNTIL YOU TRY IT WITH THEM (which I hope the staffs did do it before issuing the ban to ALL Chinese IPs).
There are years of evidence pointing toward unplayable laggy games between Chinese players and players from the rest of the world. It's not possible to test every Chinese player with every potential opponent in advance to test for lag. The decision has to be made now and, given the prevalence of lag, there is really no choice.
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On April 01 2008 17:32 Cunty wrote:
just so everyone knows:
The korean term "gosu", which l337 posters like to drop, comes from the chinese “gaoshou” （高手）. It literally means "high hand" or advanced player or "badass".
Does it have anything to do with this o_o? Just so you know, due to historical reasons there are like thousands of Chinese-origin words in Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese language.
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I can't believe there isn't more understanding for this. In order to warrant such a tournament with these prizes we have to be able to deliver the very best quality of games. Sponsors are not going to be happy with TSL #2 if we had to kick many players from the final tournament, having huge delays on broadcasts, and a lot of complaining from every non-lagging player around. These decision has been made in your best interest so that we think we will be able to continue finding sponsors for events like this.
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On April 01 2008 22:30 RowdierBob wrote:
It's a tough call either way, but you can understand why the TL folk did it.
Just curious though; Russian and even Australian folk are known to have lag issues sometimes so what happens if you are in an important game and it becomes unbearably laggy? Will the rep be saved and commented on later?
Isn't ICCup server located in Russia?
Btw I think the organizers should be careful with connection problem when there's player from Australia too I'm in Australia, never have any tiniest issue with BatteNET but ICCup is really laggy sometimes.
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eh I'm ambivalent about this, reason I don't fully support this decision is many top pros have proxies which work fine with euroamerican connections.
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4492 Posts
I still want to implement the Pet Progamer widget.
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yea.. you forget that the top tier chinese players that would most likely qualify all have proxies that which enable them to play in a perfectly non-laggy game with europe/american players
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On April 01 2008 22:49 mrdx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2008 22:30 RowdierBob wrote:
It's a tough call either way, but you can understand why the TL folk did it.
Just curious though; Russian and even Australian folk are known to have lag issues sometimes so what happens if you are in an important game and it becomes unbearably laggy? Will the rep be saved and commented on later? Isn't ICCup server located in Russia? Btw I think the organizers should be careful with connection problem when there's player from Australia too I'm in Australia, never have any tiniest issue with BatteNET but ICCup is really laggy sometimes.
starcraft using peer-2-peer protocol, so your ingame lag doesn't depend on the server you are playing on, but on your connection to the person you are playing with
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hey unk I have the same problem. I can play perfectly fine with chaoslauncher on low latency on west server, but I cannot play on low lat on iccup server, even vs same player....I really think there is something restricting full speed on my computer with iccup server....because when I first create or join game, game plays out fine on low lat, but after a minute or two, it becomes too laggy for low lat, so i gotta change to extra high lat. after 15 ~20 minutes, it becomes way too laggy that it frustrates everyone, and i cant change to the battlenet extra high lat...... solutions?!?!?!
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I support doing what the league has to do to keep things running smooth, but It seems like this should be done on a case by case basis. To deny an entire country entrance because many of them lag seems really heavy handed. Other solutions should probably be considered.
Each chinese person who qualifies for the playoffs can simply join a game with a few people to make sure their connection works well. If not, they're out.
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TSL Staff:
Will Chinese players be able to play if they use proxies from outside mainland China. Most Chinese pros use Hong Kong proxies which work fine with Europe and America.
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aw well it's april 2nd and still in effect. I thought for sure I was had earlier and the timing of the post (12:03) indicated it was a joke. sucks for the chinese gosus I guess.
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Really sad. I hoped to see PJ and others among the top 16.
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Wow thats too bad, I was lookin forward to some good games from china =/. Im sure you guys did all you could, I support your decision
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On April 02 2008 02:34 Loophole wrote:
I support doing what the league has to do to keep things running smooth, but It seems like this should be done on a case by case basis. To deny an entire country entrance because many of them lag seems really heavy handed. Other solutions should probably be considered.
Each chinese person who qualifies for the playoffs can simply join a game with a few people to make sure their connection works well. If not, they're out. Doing it on a case by case basis, for a country like China, is virtually impossible....
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South Africa4316 Posts
More than just impossible, it's unfair towards the player. Think about it, PJ spends three weeks of non-stop iccuping just to find out that his connection isn't fast enough. That would really suck. Rather have the ban outright and early on in the league than have the ban at a later stage once they've already invested effort into the tournament.
As for the chinese proxies thing, we are looking into it, and remember, this will not be the last TSL. If we find a workable solution we will need to test it first, but it does mean that there's a good likelihood of Chinese players being allowed to play next season.
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On April 01 2008 13:56 talismania wrote:
it'll suck if this is still true april 2nd.
agreed. ^^
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I think this rule and the discision to make such a rule shouldn't be open for discussion. Post it as news. this is how it is, theres nothing to do with it.
What if they said: its only for americans. then no one would complain right? this is about money.. dont act like its all friends or so. this is business.
tl.net set the standards: no lag, because it causes divserse problems, like nazgul told us.
side-note it is unfortunate for those who have good connection, but thats the way life is. i bet there are alot of chinese tours, or asia tours which we dont even know about.
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On April 02 2008 06:19 Daigomi wrote:
More than just impossible, it's unfair towards the player. Think about it, PJ spends three weeks of non-stop iccuping just to find out that his connection isn't fast enough. That would really suck. Rather have the ban outright and early on in the league than have the ban at a later stage once they've already invested effort into the tournament.
As for the chinese proxies thing, we are looking into it, and remember, this will not be the last TSL. If we find a workable solution we will need to test it first, but it does mean that there's a good likelihood of Chinese players being allowed to play next season.
Thanks, can you give me a reply about the proxy thing as soon as you guys reach a decision, I gotta confront a bunch of chinese pros hungry for us currency
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
omg this is bad
TT
o well, i live in US
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On April 02 2008 06:37 wo0py wrote:
I think this rule and the discision to make such a rule shouldn't be open for discussion. Post it as news. this is how it is, theres nothing to do with it.
What if they said: its only for americans. then no one would complain right? this is about money.. dont act like its all friends or so. this is business.
tl.net set the standards: no lag, because it causes divserse problems, like nazgul told us.
side-note it is unfortunate for those who have good connection, but thats the way life is. i bet there are alot of chinese tours, or asia tours which we dont even know about.
Yeah, the decision should be final. If there is any discussion then it should be for the 2nd TSL. It's not fair for both sides. It wouldn't be fair when half way through the tournament, it is decided that Chinese IP can now play. Not only would they be significantly behind, but there would be even more reason to complain and add unnecessary drama to TSL.
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they are two main internet providers in China. one of them has good connection with other countries. i know most chinese players have no problem to play with korean, americans and western europeans but cant play with easten europeans because those ppl also have bad internet.
there are also some ppl can only play 1on1 without any observers, how would u deal with them? ban?
you guys give this kinda money, but only let white boys play it.
take a look at wgt final tour. 50 bucks, ppl like mitzzz, xiaozi,Strelok ，ToT)Gosia( iG.Target ，Excello.IefNaij ，Excello.CaStrO ToT)ClouD( LRM)Yayba oldy.... almost all the good players played in that tour for only 50 dollars. what is the point you wanna give out so much money?? of course you wanna attract more good gamers.
my suggestion is
for the ladder, chinese can play with korean to qualify, obviously it will be harder than only play in the TSL channel with no korean. after qualified, top16 will all have money rite? 100 dollar. it those chinese believe they can take at least 100 dollars, they may get some better connections, Im living in Canada, I play dota with my friend in china, we have perfect connections, I know there are some good and expensive internet service in China. my friend Jedi, play in wgt final tour, he is in china, he played with oldy with 6 obervers and have no lag. i have that replay(but he loss....) I know F91 has very good connections, he play for mym everyweek, nenver hear ppl complaind about his connections, LX also has good internet because he's Suppoters proviede him something like 10mb internet service.
you guys need to try to slove the problem not just cut it off make ur life easy.
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2 more questions
you ban chinese IP or ppl living in china?
and
who the hell are the members of chinese community?
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Im leader of chinese national team on Iccup and one of admins in 8da.com I have never evert hear of that community
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on second thought, nahhhh
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why don't you guys just run some tests with chinese gamers (they'll happily oblige i'm sure) and see how that goes? i mean i would be pretty bummed if i lived in china!
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my first question was are progamers allowed to play in this ? and I'm sure just to let a few select players with good connections play will cause even more hassle, as those "normal" ppl with poorer connections will start complaining and say they can have good connections too, (eg. they can just go to these expensive lans you are talkin about in china when testing connections, etc.. o_Oa)
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On April 02 2008 09:05 LooNg)119est wrote:
2 more questions
you ban chinese IP or ppl living in china?
and
who the hell are the members of chinese community?
that's actually an interesting question. if chinese get proxies and shows a non-china ip, what do you do then? ~_~
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"you guys give this kinda money, but only let white boys play it."
well... not all american/europeans are white...
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On April 02 2008 10:55 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2008 09:05 LooNg)119est wrote:
2 more questions
you ban chinese IP or ppl living in china?
and
who the hell are the members of chinese community? that's actually an interesting question. if chinese get proxies and shows a non-china ip, what do you do then? ~_~
I'm going to assume they can still play since it is only states Chinese IP are banned.
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Very strange reason to ban Chinese people. There are tons of other countries that might have bad connections.
Who will be denied as well?
If it's the same reason as not allowing Koreans, why not just say so? This sounds like an excuse to me.
Yeah, and under the rules using a proxy seems to be allowed. Unless they change the rules again.
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Clearly Hot_Bid hates the Chinese.
Moltke Complex?
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i think it's just china that specifically has this internet problem vs other countries...
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http://www.iccup.com/iccladder/1x1/cn/
this is chinese 1v1 rank on iccup.
some of them play more than 200 games. clearly, they are not play against each other.
why dont ban all chinese and korean from battle net and iccup. leave u guys in peace
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I actually kind of agree, in the clan wars I ran some connections were terrible but many were excellent. If you guys are truly worried about broadcasting games, do what svs starleague did and broadcast the replay and commentate it as if it was live, no one will know the difference if you cover up the bottom right part, and it doesn't really matter even if the audience knows it's a replay. So on second thought this is a very harsh decision which I think is unfair to a lot of Chinese players who have excellent connections just for these type of opportunites and you deny them the chance based general hearsay.
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On April 02 2008 16:19 LooNg)119est wrote:http://www.iccup.com/iccladder/1x1/cn/this is chinese 1v1 rank on iccup. some of them play more than 200 games. clearly, they are not play against each other. why dont ban all chinese and korean from battle net and iccup. leave u guys in peace
90% of those games are vs Koreans and fellow Chinese. Korean ips have to be banned for the obvious reason that progamers would rape everyone.
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I maybe sleep deprived but I feel like this is really about the general notion that Chinese starcraft stands alone and is not a part of the foreign bw scene.
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so yea, if worst comes to worst just broadcast the replay, I don't think this should be a big enough reason to ban 1.6 billion people from the ladder. Most of all, can you guys please pm me your thoughts or something, I have knowledge and information to contribute on this matter. don't get moltke on us.
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Wufan is an idiot please don't listen to him, and please don't tell me he was your chinese consultant for this decision.
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ouch... hot bid is now on the hot seat for some interrogation. what should we do now? waterboard him or sodomize? maybe we should consult kerrigan what the overmind did to her?
jokes aside, if theres any credible information about a lag problem, i am strongly against ppl with Chinese IP from qualifying.
i am Chinese myself, but i know that if some poor dude did all that hardwork to qualify only to lag out (or have very high latency which screws up their muta harass and pretty much dooms a zerg), theres gonna b a whole crap load of flame wars. given China has been on the receiving end of criticism on anything and everything recently, things are gonna turn racist faster than paris hilton can drop her panties.
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youre an idiot please dont post here
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wufan just cant represnet chinese starcraft players
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Yeah seriously dybydx, lurking wouldn't do you any harm.
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I initially thought that this MUST be an april fools, but since it seems you're serious here goes...
To be fair, I've had as much problems with connections from russia or other eastern european countries as i've had with china and I'm on (arguably) one of the best ISPs in the world(100 Mbit fibre in Sweden).
While I can understand a desire to make the tourney as lag-free as possible it really doesn't make sense to ban an entire country when first of all not the entire country in question has the problem and second of all the problem isn't isolated to that country.
While it would be more work why couldn't you just test the top 48 individually in a game with observers? It would be some extra work but I'd say the tradeoff of not having to ban the most populous country in the world would be worth it.
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i think connection problems were quite bad with eastern europeans couple years ago but the last two years with iccup and such, their isps have improved alot.
china still lags and to be fair i can see a sort of reasoning behind this but you should just ban china from participanting all together instead having a situation now where the potential winner or whoever have to face the fact that they had an easy road.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
we are currently working on alternative solutions, but right now we absolutely must focus on the viability and quality of the broadcasts in this tournament
its regretable, but currently its necessary. it certainly isn't racist or anything ridiculous like that. You guys need to understand that we are stretched very thin running TSL as it is, and we don't have enough time to spare to work out the numerous problems players have connecting with players in china in a case-by-case manner.
Coordinating a large amount of players is a difficult task in and of itself, and we do have a schedule to keep.
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in fact,it isn't all chinese ips have the problem of lag
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Has this anything to do with the Great 'Fire'Wall of China?
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the great firewall of china has opened up a lot since 2002, and is a lot more free. I played with many players from China on my USA ISP, and the games are fine.
Starcraft isn't a game that requires that quick of an response from computer to computer.
It should work fine streaming.
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I would be sad if this affects the future decisions of the chinese when they plan to invite foreigners for their tournaments. c'mon atleast let their top players represent the country.
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the firewall in china only blocks sites that are blacklisted. the list is maintained manually. since battle.net does not involve itself with anything political or obscene, it hasnt been on the blacklist.
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i could agree with these decision if this was some no name tournament with 2$ prize pool... but in such a tournament to ban all chinese players......... makes no sense! pj, legend, f91, super, jaystar, rushgoon........... it is not a real tournament without them... i can't belive you didn't think about it before!
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I don't think it'd be too much trouble to get a US player + European player + your 2 obs and test the lag for anyone in China or any developing country. There are only a dozen or two of them likely to qualify anyway.
Banning Chinese players is both under and overinclusive. I played 2 games against F91 with no lag at all, but had to set higher latency (all games using the iccup launcher LAN setting) when playing against people from Australia, Vietnam, and Romania. There are plenty of pros with good connections in China, and plenty of people outside China that get horrible latency to the US/Europe.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
sigh
China CONSTANTLY has events with tons of money where foreigners are for the most part excluded. Sometimes they invite 2-4 euro/americans or allow "us" to play in their qualifiers. They do this because they have their own leagues where professional teams, broadcasting and money is all on the line. We as "foreigners" FINALLY get something that we have been drooling over while watching koreans/chinese indulge in what we all want for ourselves and you guys are going to bitch?
Fact: Most chinese have connection problems with non Chinese.
Fact2: This problem is compounded with MORE people in the game IE casters, recorders, refs etc.
Fact3: Some chinese FLAT OUT cannot be in the same game as foreigners because they dont have the connection of a PJ/Lx/F91 etc.
So when they hit a foreigner in the playoff do we reroute the entire tourney? Do we DQ one of the players? Do we disallow casters? Do we make the foreigner suffer through the lag with 5k at stake? No. We dont. That isn't fair. It's illogical and unnecessary.
Can we for once have a foreigner event where it is truly a matter of what foreigner is going to make themselves rich? I am tired of having the chinese exclude us from events / leagues and then when we have one of our own their delegates start bitching about fairness and equality.. common? I am sorry but logistically they have historically been a nuisance. Aside from that they have been perfectly fine ignoring foreigners for the most part.
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wow, that might be the best post i've ever seen from incontrol :o
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 03 2008 16:45 littlechava wrote:
wow, that might be the best post i've ever seen from incontrol :o its a change fromOn April 03 2008 14:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote:should be nice On April 03 2008 11:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
hawt et al
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There aren't going to be that many games broadcast; hosting a test game to check lag doesn't take more than a minute. If you only do it for the chinese players who qualify it's basically no hassle for anyone. If they don't lag in a test game, they have no greater chance of being dropped than any other foreigner.
I'm not chinese and i don't feel particularly strongly about this, it just seems like this was a very arbitrary and lazy choice, and half the people in favor of it are just happy to not face certain chinese players.
PS
The PGL is irrelevant if this about lag. It doesn't claim to be international anyway.
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all the talk about proxies and chinese pro's connections is kinda suspect. media played a clanwar against some chinese players bly set up and every single game lagged, we had to switch players half a dozen times because alot of the lag was just unplayable.
the blanket decision may seem kinda unfair, but doing it on a case by case basis is only marginally better, if at all. you have to decide how much lag is too much(which will lead to controversy in itself), because i doubt any of them will have no lag at all. then the ones who do have to be replaced will be even more pissed cuz they wasted the time qualifying and cant play. the admins then have to go through the hassle of getting the replacements on top of having to test all the chinese players in the first place (and it would be a decent investment of time, because quite a few chinese players could qualify and quite a few would have unplayable lag)
pgl and the other chinese leagues are relevant, simply because it means theres less reason to go out of the way to accommodate the chinese. in the first news post it says koreans arent allowed because they already have their own leagues, this is to give foreigners something big and important and rewarding to play in. the chinese already have other things like that as well so why bend over backwards to try to fit them in here.
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On April 03 2008 15:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
sigh
China CONSTANTLY has events with tons of money where foreigners are for the most part excluded. Sometimes they invite 2-4 euro/americans or allow "us" to play in their qualifiers. They do this because they have their own leagues where professional teams, broadcasting and money is all on the line. We as "foreigners" FINALLY get something that we have been drooling over while watching koreans/chinese indulge in what we all want for ourselves and you guys are going to bitch?
Fact: Most chinese have connection problems with non Chinese.
Fact2: This problem is compounded with MORE people in the game IE casters, recorders, refs etc.
Fact3: Some chinese FLAT OUT cannot be in the same game as foreigners because they dont have the connection of a PJ/Lx/F91 etc.
So when they hit a foreigner in the playoff do we reroute the entire tourney? Do we DQ one of the players? Do we disallow casters? Do we make the foreigner suffer through the lag with 5k at stake? No. We dont. That isn't fair. It's illogical and unnecessary.
Can we for once have a foreigner event where it is truly a matter of what foreigner is going to make themselves rich? I am tired of having the chinese exclude us from events / leagues and then when we have one of our own their delegates start bitching about fairness and equality.. common? I am sorry but logistically they have historically been a nuisance. Aside from that they have been perfectly fine ignoring foreigners for the most part.
dude you sound like china purposely excludes foreigners from their leagues, any chinese bw event with more than $5000 prize money, pgl, iest has had foreigners AND koreans participate, the other chinese only leagues like ceg whatever has shit for prize money and all have offline qualification.
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On April 03 2008 17:58 IdrA wrote:
all the talk about proxies and chinese pro's connections is kinda suspect. media played a clanwar against some chinese players bly set up and every single game lagged, we had to switch players half a dozen times because alot of the lag was just unplayable.
the blanket decision may seem kinda unfair, but doing it on a case by case basis is only marginally better, if at all. you have to decide how much lag is too much(which will lead to controversy in itself), because i doubt any of them will have no lag at all. then the ones who do have to be replaced will be even more pissed cuz they wasted the time qualifying and cant play. the admins then have to go through the hassle of getting the replacements on top of having to test all the chinese players in the first place (and it would be a decent investment of time, because quite a few chinese players could qualify and quite a few would have unplayable lag)
pgl and the other chinese leagues are relevant, simply because it means theres less reason to go out of the way to accommodate the chinese. in the first news post it says koreans arent allowed because they already have their own leagues, this is to give foreigners something big and important and rewarding to play in. the chinese already have other things like that as well so why bend over backwards to try to fit them in here.
to be fair the people who lagged didn't have proxies, the only person that had a proxy that cw was bugzerg and he played fine with nony. Also ret and jedi played fine too cuz ret had dutch internet i guess.
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Manifiesto mentioned in the opening post that the decision they ban Chinese IPs is purely based on Chinese poor internet connection (Am I on the right track here?). Why do guys like inControl keep bragging about China has their own leagues and we don't?
I hope you guys stay on topic about Chinese players lag for stream sever rather than China has its own leagues. Or, mod should just close this topic as the decision is final, so we don't have an increasingly steaming up debate here.
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Braavos36375 Posts
Do not take opinions of non-staff as official statements.
For now, discussion is closed in this topic.
Do not post here or it will result in an automatic 2-day temp ban.
Thank you.
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fascist
i don't mean to be disrespectful because TSL is such a great thing and i don't want this Chinese issue to take anything away from it, but i gotta say i'm surprised at how you guys are handling the issue. and wtf is up with this absolute ban on discussion?
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Osaka27149 Posts
Anyone else want to call names? The discussion is over, go have it via PM if you want.
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EPT
