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Power Rank 12/14/2008 - Page 3

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 44 45 46 Next All
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11291 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 19:22:54
December 13 2008 19:22 GMT
#41
+ Show Spoiler [OSL Prelims] +
FBH and Jangbi had a rough time in OSL prelims though, so they will have to rely on performing well in the MSL in order to maintain their status. Both of them dropped out, Jangbi in PvP against Horang2, FBH in TvZ vs. Hoejja (albeit vs. two of the new "legend killers")
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 19:34:13
December 13 2008 19:23 GMT
#42
the only change i'd make would be removing Jaedong completely and adding Fantasy or Leta, and reordering the bottom part. imo Fantasy's losses are far more justifiable than FBH's.

my list would be:

1. Bisu
2. Stork
3. Flash
4. Jangbi
5. free
6. Best
7. Kal
8-10. Some combo of FBH/Leta/Fantasy/Sea

For the FBH / Leta / Fantasy / Sea discussion, they are all performing amazingly in proleague. Leta and Fantasy have more wins, but it's a wash since they are all doing very well. Then you look at individual leagues:

Fantasy: seeded into OSL, passed MSL qualifiers
Leta: passed OSL qualifiers, passed MSL qualifiers
Sea: passed OSL qualifiers (seeded), qualified for MSL
FBH: failed OSL qualifiers, seeded in MSL

You could argue that FBH's MSL performance counts more, but it was back in October. In November, he is just 0-3 vs Bisu in MSL. The seed shouldn't count that much.

I think the rank for these four should be:

1. Sea / Fantasy (very close)
3. Leta / FBH (again very close)

Going with my gut and how these guys are playing, I think it should be Sea, then Fantasy, then Leta. But it's debatable for sure, but I just don't think FBH is as high as #6.

Other than this it's a great rank, I especially agree with Bisu at #1. Great job Steve!
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
December 13 2008 19:27 GMT
#43
On December 14 2008 03:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2008 03:37 Dazed_Spy wrote:
It kind of goes without saying that Leta deserves the PR more than Sea.

Really, that just pissed me off. And yeah, FBH is way too fuckin high.

Edit: Isn't this a power rank for last month? Sea's justification were games from this month. Last month he played like a scrub, this month hes given good games.


what the hell would be the point of not including games up until the PR is released? So we could have an inaccurate ranking because i pretend not to know what happened between december first and now? that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
Or maybe you could try not releasing PR half way through the fucking month every damn time?
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 19:31:09
December 13 2008 19:30 GMT
#44
On December 14 2008 04:27 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2008 03:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On December 14 2008 03:37 Dazed_Spy wrote:
It kind of goes without saying that Leta deserves the PR more than Sea.

Really, that just pissed me off. And yeah, FBH is way too fuckin high.

Edit: Isn't this a power rank for last month? Sea's justification were games from this month. Last month he played like a scrub, this month hes given good games.

what the hell would be the point of not including games up until the PR is released? So we could have an inaccurate ranking because i pretend not to know what happened between december first and now? that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
Or maybe you could try not releasing PR half way through the fucking month every damn time?

Steve's right about your idea being stupid, he has to take into consideration all the games up to that point. It's the best solution for a PR that doesn't come on the first of the month. Also, there's a respectful way to say "hey lets release it on time please!" instead of yelling it like some unappreciative douche. Consider this a warning.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
December 13 2008 19:30 GMT
#45
Just wondering, why there are some players with clan tag and some without? Like Bisu X Sea
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
December 13 2008 19:35 GMT
#46
God I love it when new Power Ranks come out. I feel content with pretty much everything here. Jaedong I do feel is still a bit too high possibly.
Graphics
Disarray
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1164 Posts
December 13 2008 19:39 GMT
#47
no "close but no cigar" ???
Input limit reached. Please wait to perform more actions.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
December 13 2008 19:43 GMT
#48
On December 14 2008 04:27 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2008 03:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
On December 14 2008 03:37 Dazed_Spy wrote:
It kind of goes without saying that Leta deserves the PR more than Sea.

Really, that just pissed me off. And yeah, FBH is way too fuckin high.

Edit: Isn't this a power rank for last month? Sea's justification were games from this month. Last month he played like a scrub, this month hes given good games.


what the hell would be the point of not including games up until the PR is released? So we could have an inaccurate ranking because i pretend not to know what happened between december first and now? that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard,
Or maybe you could try not releasing PR half way through the fucking month every damn time?


suck it up asshole, i do this for free and i have other responsibilities. I do what I can to get it out at a decent time, but its not always so easy. You're fucked in the head if you think this is an easy or simple process.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Sprite
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1015 Posts
December 13 2008 19:59 GMT
#49
Firebathero builds battlecruisers = PR
Firebathero is still the best!
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
December 13 2008 20:18 GMT
#50
I had a feeling that GGplay should be on the PR, but this is a good one nonetheless.
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 20:23:03
December 13 2008 20:22 GMT
#51
On December 14 2008 04:23 Hot_Bid wrote:
the only change i'd make would be removing Jaedong completely and adding Fantasy or Leta, and reordering the bottom part. imo Fantasy's losses are far more justifiable than FBH's.

my list would be:

1. Bisu
2. Stork
3. Flash
4. Jangbi
5. free
6. Best
7. Kal
8-10. Some combo of FBH/Leta/Fantasy/Sea

For the FBH / Leta / Fantasy / Sea discussion, they are all performing amazingly in proleague. Leta and Fantasy have more wins, but it's a wash since they are all doing very well. Then you look at individual leagues:

Fantasy: seeded into OSL, passed MSL qualifiers
Leta: passed OSL qualifiers, passed MSL qualifiers
Sea: passed OSL qualifiers (seeded), qualified for MSL
FBH: failed OSL qualifiers, seeded in MSL

You could argue that FBH's MSL performance counts more, but it was back in October. In November, he is just 0-3 vs Bisu in MSL. The seed shouldn't count that much.

I think the rank for these four should be:

1. Sea / Fantasy (very close)
3. Leta / FBH (again very close)

Going with my gut and how these guys are playing, I think it should be Sea, then Fantasy, then Leta. But it's debatable for sure, but I just don't think FBH is as high as #6.

Other than this it's a great rank, I especially agree with Bisu at #1. Great job Steve!


That makes a lot of sense. What made FBH stick out for me was that he is incredibly likely to have a comparable level of success in MSL this season (that is, crushing every Terran and Zerg he plays against) and is still very likely to maintain his performance in ProLeague. That measure of consistancy made him worthy of higher praise in my mind, because it shows that he is, for the moment, a justifiably better player than Leta/Sea/Fantasy.

Fantasy is off the list because after OSL none of his games were impressive, he looked like a generic run-of-the-mill Terran pro. That's not conducive to placement in the top 10. I think FBH's consistancy should be recognized, and while the other three Terrans in question have comparable performances, they aren't nearly as reliable. Of course, with the coming MSL/OSL this is all up in the air, it just made more sense to have FBH above them right now because he is consistantly that good all the time.

The players below him are Best, Jaedong, Kal, and Sea (plus everyone else). We agree about Jaedong being lower, but I don't think Kal or Best (particularily Best despite how he positively bleeds potential) should be higher than FBH given the last month and a half of games.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8097 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 20:28:31
December 13 2008 20:27 GMT
#52
Yarnc, leta, mind, and effort IMO need to be in CBNC. They have been doing FUCKING GOOD lately in PL(except effort's abysmal game vs light).


I too would put Yarnc above sea, but that's really debatable

Really accurate list otherwise (even though seeing so many protosses brings tears to my eyes :\ )
Free Palestine
Fzero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1503 Posts
December 13 2008 20:33 GMT
#53
I'd like to ask the Maestro FakeSteve about Pusan aka #1 Plexa fan. I really believe he has been on fire lately, producing 8-2 in the last 2 months only losing to Jangbi and Best (Beating Stork). I know he is not a big name, but Leta and Pusan are lighting up Proleague (the only thing out right now) and I'd like to hear your comments.
Never give up on something that you can't go a day without thinking about.
brjdrb
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States577 Posts
December 13 2008 20:57 GMT
#54
i think sea.really should be considered for cnbc. he's really pulling through for estro. same with mind (but for wemade). and i wish forgg were on the pr...but he's just not playing well. come on man! step it up!
Stork's biggest fan
Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
December 13 2008 21:00 GMT
#55
On December 14 2008 01:36 freelander wrote:
I like this pr, though too many protoss are there.
I honestly can't understand how FBH can suck so much in tvp while being so good against the other two races.
Is tvp too complex? or just tvp doesn't fit his style? what the heck

well it`s not that complicated..it`s just that it`s not usual at this level. Like i`m really good with microing, mutas and stuff, but I`m horrible at macro, no practice time sucks. I know it`s not a good comparison, but still, I think that is the reason ( not the practice time issue, just the fact that he`s good at TvZ and TvT. I bet he`ll get even better at TvP )
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
December 13 2008 21:13 GMT
#56
I don't know about Jaedong getting flat-out outplayed...I mean, yeah...his last game with FBH was pretty bad...

But either way, he's just been making really really really DUMB decisions lately. He opened strong (but a liiitle shakier than usual) at the start of the season...but like...zergs in general are having a hard time against terrans, but like his ZvP and ZvZ are showing signs of just dumb play where he hangs on for longer than most would have due to his extreme mechanics. Like that ZvP game on Andromeda (I forget who it was) this season where he made like 18 lurkers against a goon heavy army... -_____-;;... Or that ZvZ on...Neo Requiem I believe? (might have been Raid Assault)...where he lost because he tried to play with some cute ling micro and bust the other guy's ramp...which resulted in HIS ling line getting run past...and then losing like three or four drones...

He needs to shape up the strategic aspect of his game...he's still among the top as a modern SC player in all other respects, imo.
Hello
Jaeden
Profile Joined September 2008
Romania1489 Posts
December 13 2008 21:24 GMT
#57
On December 14 2008 06:13 PH wrote:
I don't know about Jaedong getting flat-out outplayed...I mean, yeah...his last game with FBH was pretty bad...

But either way, he's just been making really really really DUMB decisions lately. He opened strong (but a liiitle shakier than usual) at the start of the season...but like...zergs in general are having a hard time against terrans, but like his ZvP and ZvZ are showing signs of just dumb play where he hangs on for longer than most would have due to his extreme mechanics. Like that ZvP game on Andromeda (I forget who it was) this season where he made like 18 lurkers against a goon heavy army... -_____-;;... Or that ZvZ on...Neo Requiem I believe? (might have been Raid Assault)...where he lost because he tried to play with some cute ling micro and bust the other guy's ramp...which resulted in HIS ling line getting run past...and then losing like three or four drones...

He needs to shape up the strategic aspect of his game...he's still among the top as a modern SC player in all other respects, imo.

hooooooooooooping u are right, sir
I mean, I know he`s really good, it`s just that his inspiration is nowhere to be seen. It`s gettin` blinded by the bad decision-making
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
capek
Profile Joined September 2008
United States585 Posts
December 13 2008 21:27 GMT
#58
On December 14 2008 06:24 Jaeden wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2008 06:13 PH wrote:
I don't know about Jaedong getting flat-out outplayed...I mean, yeah...his last game with FBH was pretty bad...

But either way, he's just been making really really really DUMB decisions lately. He opened strong (but a liiitle shakier than usual) at the start of the season...but like...zergs in general are having a hard time against terrans, but like his ZvP and ZvZ are showing signs of just dumb play where he hangs on for longer than most would have due to his extreme mechanics. Like that ZvP game on Andromeda (I forget who it was) this season where he made like 18 lurkers against a goon heavy army... -_____-;;... Or that ZvZ on...Neo Requiem I believe? (might have been Raid Assault)...where he lost because he tried to play with some cute ling micro and bust the other guy's ramp...which resulted in HIS ling line getting run past...and then losing like three or four drones...

He needs to shape up the strategic aspect of his game...he's still among the top as a modern SC player in all other respects, imo.

hooooooooooooping u are right, sir
I mean, I know he`s really good, it`s just that his inspiration is nowhere to be seen. It`s gettin` blinded by the bad decision-making

It reminds of the time when flash's only build was 14cc.
Don't worry boys, JD will be back soon enough.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 21:39:04
December 13 2008 21:38 GMT
#59
On December 14 2008 05:22 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2008 04:23 Hot_Bid wrote:
the only change i'd make would be removing Jaedong completely and adding Fantasy or Leta, and reordering the bottom part. imo Fantasy's losses are far more justifiable than FBH's.

my list would be:

1. Bisu
2. Stork
3. Flash
4. Jangbi
5. free
6. Best
7. Kal
8-10. Some combo of FBH/Leta/Fantasy/Sea

For the FBH / Leta / Fantasy / Sea discussion, they are all performing amazingly in proleague. Leta and Fantasy have more wins, but it's a wash since they are all doing very well. Then you look at individual leagues:

Fantasy: seeded into OSL, passed MSL qualifiers
Leta: passed OSL qualifiers, passed MSL qualifiers
Sea: passed OSL qualifiers (seeded), qualified for MSL
FBH: failed OSL qualifiers, seeded in MSL

You could argue that FBH's MSL performance counts more, but it was back in October. In November, he is just 0-3 vs Bisu in MSL. The seed shouldn't count that much.

I think the rank for these four should be:

1. Sea / Fantasy (very close)
3. Leta / FBH (again very close)

Going with my gut and how these guys are playing, I think it should be Sea, then Fantasy, then Leta. But it's debatable for sure, but I just don't think FBH is as high as #6.

Other than this it's a great rank, I especially agree with Bisu at #1. Great job Steve!


That makes a lot of sense. What made FBH stick out for me was that he is incredibly likely to have a comparable level of success in MSL this season (that is, crushing every Terran and Zerg he plays against) and is still very likely to maintain his performance in ProLeague. That measure of consistancy made him worthy of higher praise in my mind, because it shows that he is, for the moment, a justifiably better player than Leta/Sea/Fantasy.

well, if you're going off likelihood for comparable level of success in this MSL, i don't think that's a good example, because it's absolutely loaded with Protoss (at least in the seeded stage so far), making up 50% of the players in the MSL.

Fantasy is off the list because after OSL none of his games were impressive, he looked like a generic run-of-the-mill Terran pro. That's not conducive to placement in the top 10. I think FBH's consistancy should be recognized, and while the other three Terrans in question have comparable performances, they aren't nearly as reliable. Of course, with the coming MSL/OSL this is all up in the air, it just made more sense to have FBH above them right now because he is consistantly that good all the time.

perhaps you are right about Fantasy, looking over his past few games i might have overvalued his TvT wins. OSL though has Sea and Leta possible but FBH completely out. with so many Ps running around right now I'd say those two have all-around better games suited for this upcoming month.

The players below him are Best, Jaedong, Kal, and Sea (plus everyone else). We agree about Jaedong being lower, but I don't think Kal or Best (particularily Best despite how he positively bleeds potential) should be higher than FBH given the last month and a half of games.

if we were to exclude Jaedong from the list entirely, then one could argue that the entire bottom half of the list below flash is a toss up. Jangbi and Free both didn't make OSL and finished higher than FBH or the others in previous individual leagues so that justifies their place. Best didn't make MSL, FBH didn't make OSL, but both are doing OK in PL. Best finished higher in the OSL than FBH did in the MSL but both those results were not in the past month, so they should be weighted a bit less.

I guess you could argue it any way, but if we were to take the PR as an evaluation of player "force" right now, it's extremely close between the bottom six, and any order is probably a good one.

The only mistake being Jaedong on the list at all, but I appreciate your commitment to having at least one Z, if you were to have one Z it'd have to be Yarnc though, he's 6-2 since the Jangbi debacle with wins over Calm and Kal (Ace) and one of his losses was Bisu.

Pretty difficult rank to order, but when Leta and Sea qualify for both leagues, they will jump next month I think.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-13 23:17:44
December 13 2008 22:51 GMT
#60
Steve you've read wayyy too much into Sea vs Jaedong. He's been playing games like that forever (see Savior vs Sea at WWI for instance) and Sea vs Iris? Well iris is no badass TvT these days; a better player would have cleaned out iris way earlier. Pusan would have been a better pick for this spot with his 9-2 record in proleauge (beating stork etc), or even magma based off his performance in the prelims/MST (which was fucking impressive). Hell, even fantasy has been playing better (on the whole) than Sea has

Jaedong has no place on this rank, i dont think he would beat anyone on this ranking tbh.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
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