EPTI am both excited and worried people don't understand the options.
What do you think of the WCS 2014 changes?
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tili
United States1332 Posts
I am both excited and worried people don't understand the options. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Verator
United States283 Posts
I think also WCS AM is too dominated by koreans and this will fix nothing, and it will only get worse for the NA scene. | ||
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superpanda27
111 Posts
On November 21 2013 11:37 Verator wrote: I feel like it's probably too little too late, even though the changes are positive. I think also WCS AM is too dominated by koreans and this will fix nothing, and it will only get worse for the NA scene. Can you please elaborate on how it will get worse for the NA scene with the change? | ||
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Mahdi
Russian Federation7 Posts
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TJ31
630 Posts
Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped. So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents". But I guess it's the matter of preferences. There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS. And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form. | ||
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astray71
United States325 Posts
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote: While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low. Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped. So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents". But I guess it's the matter of preferences. There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS. And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form. I honestly have to agree. I fully supported Koreans in other regions because of the quality of the games produced. I can understand that people want to see hometown players (Huk, Suppy, etc), but if we get a game between 2 newcomers, I'm not sure if I want to see a 50 minute game with poor decision and basic micro errors that should not be happening on a stage this big. | ||
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TaishiCi
Korea (South)211 Posts
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote: While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low. Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped. So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents". But I guess it's the matter of preferences. There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS. And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form. It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams. While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them. I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters. | ||
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ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
On November 21 2013 12:41 Mahdi wrote: Region lock is the most bad thing, IMO. I'mnot saying that it was not hard to compete with koreans, it's just feels like cowardness, don't you think. It will be kinda pitiful to watch players from other region in season finals, and with this mind set it will be hard to advance through koreans. There are no season finals in 2014. | ||
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Mahdi
Russian Federation7 Posts
Yes you are right. Only Global Finals. | ||
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Maegi
Finland174 Posts
On November 21 2013 10:32 Plexa wrote: Almost perfect changes. The one drawback is the bo5 determining whether people make it into premier or not. That feels too luck based in matchup pairings. Would have preferred 8 dual tournament style groups. I totally agree. Otherwise nearly perfect. Would really love to see OSL tho :O | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote: While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low. Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped. So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents". While the Challenger league for AM and EU might be this way, there are more than enough talented and exciting sc2 players to fill out Premier league, and this will separate the moderately good foreigners from the very good. (albeit, there will still be some Korean stomps) | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
In particular, I don't want to see finals on the same day as the semi finals this year. | ||
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Radicalness
United States271 Posts
I think the new method is a good compromise. | ||
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Iceman331
United States1306 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
Thats the only thing that kept me from marking off highly excited instead of moderately | ||
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Jerom
Netherlands588 Posts
I feel like a partial region lock might be the best thing, to force the players from the region to have a serious chance to compete aswell. Also, the increased Korea pricemoney will draw more koreans to korea which is good I guess. It'd probably be even better if they'd pretty much double the pricemoney in the korea region compared to the other regions, since the competition is a lot higher. Overall though, this should be a step in the right direction. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
Also the scheduling changes help out a lot with letting indie tournaments back into the scene, offering even more player opportunities. There's nothing but good here, folks, if you care about NA/EU upping their skills. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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riyanme
Philippines940 Posts
"Okey" changes but the same end results. | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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vrok
Sweden2541 Posts
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LastManProductions
United States252 Posts
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote: I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters. Actually the people who complain about the level of play of foreigners are the posers/hipsters, nobody will miss you. | ||
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Op
73 Posts
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote: It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams. While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them. I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters. Just curious where the limit is in this case ? Which matches are worth watching and which are not ? Would you only watch matches between WCS Global final players, because the quality of the other players is not high enough ? Matches are interesting due to many factors, and in my opinion it is important for SC2 to survive as a viewer sports in NA and Europe to have a platform for local talent. If we should only be interested in the highest level play, then let's only have GSL, and do away with WCS EU and NA.... | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Yes, the global finals may not have the very best possible starting field (which would be only koreans, with maybe onne or two ecceptions), but as long it doesn't include too many newbs, it should be ok. Compare to olympics, where each nation can bring only 3 people, and in some sports the hardest part is the national qualifiers. So well, some compromise can be useful, and it seems like this new arrangement does that ok... Or open WCS qualifiers entirely for anyone why wants to, and set up a separate AM (EU) championship, for those that are interesting in the best AM (EU) player. | ||
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TaishiCi
Korea (South)211 Posts
On November 23 2013 10:11 Op wrote: Just curious where the limit is in this case ? Which matches are worth watching and which are not ? Would you only watch matches between WCS Global final players, because the quality of the other players is not high enough ? Matches are interesting due to many factors, and in my opinion it is important for SC2 to survive as a viewer sports in NA and Europe to have a platform for local talent. If we should only be interested in the highest level play, then let's only have GSL, and do away with WCS EU and NA.... Matches worth watching are incredible shows of mechanics. I would go as far as to say even the top players in the world show matches worth watching 60% of the time. Sports that value story-line over skill are usually psuedo sports like WWE. If the players actually show skills worth watching, the viewers will increase. The fact of the current scene is that less than 10% of the matches are even watchable, while filler Korean v foreigner and foreigner v foreigner matches take up most of the time. The talent is just not there to make sc2 into huge spectator worthy. Spreading money out to bunch of amateur scrubs isn't going to save the scene at all, just speed up it dying. Keeping a small, highly paid, motivated, and well marketed scene is the only practical model. It is stupid to think that this small market would be able to support 3-5 separate scenes like foreigners want. Football is the most popular sport in America with a huge market, but they only have 1 league. Instead of keeping money sinks called minor leagues, they spend it on team facilities, stadiums, marketing, and support staff. Only stressing quality of their athletes, they get the greatest athletes on Earth. | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On November 21 2013 10:32 Plexa wrote: Almost perfect changes. The one drawback is the bo5 determining whether people make it into premier or not. That feels too luck based in matchup pairings. Would have preferred 8 dual tournament style groups. One day, sweet prince. One day. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
The worst change, in my opinion, is increasing the points for 1st place. It promotes less consistent players who only win once during the year and then disappear from the scene, but still can make the year finals (only to be demolished, of course), instead of someone who was relevant the whole year and has real chances for world champion. | ||
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MidnightZL
Sweden203 Posts
On November 21 2013 12:41 Mahdi wrote: Region lock is the most bad thing, IMO. I'mnot saying that it was not hard to compete with koreans, it's just feels like cowardness, don't you think. It will be kinda pitiful to watch players from other region in season finals, and with this mind set it will be hard to advance through koreans. Agree, watching only foreigners would be so bloody boring  koreans are needed to keep a higher quality and forces foreignes to push themselves a little harder, it's good for the game. Well let's see how it goes. | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote: It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams. While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them. I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters. posers/hipsters because you say so right? lol... | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 22 2013 10:51 Mistakes wrote: Who the hell highly disapproves of this? They're really good changes! I for one don't see enough change. We all knew what was coming and it just isn't enough to change the landscape for the better. I don't see enough forward thinkers in this scene who can think outside of the box. If it were me I'd blow up the system, re-brand the circuit, re-empower the teams/players/organizations/hosts and introduce a system where every player benefits and improves from. I want to be impressed. The WCS does none of that and I look at this as only a patch. You aren't going to see much change with this. | ||
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ladysman09
237 Posts
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Znoz
Latvia127 Posts
Only name remained. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
So yeah, while the changes are overall good, the actual implementation of the changes (so far) looks really poor. I also think they could something more interesting out of challenger league tbh, but let's see how this works out. Maybe the qualifier tournaments will be much more interesting to follow now.  | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On November 21 2013 14:48 TaishiCi wrote: It feels like it is mostly the players' families and gfs that really "support" the local teams. While the players and coaches watch high level play to emulate them. I think it is clear that highest level of play is the most important in sports, those that don't care for it are just posers/hipsters. It's people like you who have completely missed the point for region locking. It's not for "posers and hipsters" to care about. The concept of region locking is to create an environment that fosters development of foreign Starcraft players. Right now, there is very little reason for a foreigner to put in the time and effort to get to the top level of SC2 - they'll just get smacked by a Korean at every tournament, even local ones. As sad as it is, any foreign gamer would be stupid to try to go Pro in SC2. They'll have a much easier and more successful career if they play LoL. Having zero region locking allows us to watch non-stop Code S, which is totally sweet, but ends up choking out the very scene that we love. | ||
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error_wezt
Sweden8 Posts
On November 21 2013 13:18 TJ31 wrote: While it's a partial region lock, it's still sucks. WCS AM/EU (mostly AM) challenger league this year was depressing to watch most of the time, because skill level is too low. Now some of those players will be able to play in premier league thanks to reserved spots. If they'll play vs eachother = not interesting to watch, if they'll be unlucky to play vs good koreans = they'll get stomped. So yeah, I'll probably watch much less of WCS AM/EU next year, because I watch SC2 for high quality games, not to cheer for some local "talents". But I guess it's the matter of preferences. There're people who cheer for their hometown football (soccer for US people) team, no matter how much they suck. Those people probably wanted the full region lock for WCS. And then there's people who don't give a f*ck about their lame hometown team, but they love quality football, so they watch Champions League, English Premier League etc. Those people won't agree with region lock in any form. While this analogy is completely fine (or at least acceptable), I don't get why people would continuously compare SC2 to Football. In the world of (physical) sports, Football seems way more comparable to MOBA games or any other form of teamgames (I suppose CSGO). SC2 is more like Tennis really, or perhaps F1. | ||
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