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Power Rank 06/02/2011 - Page 30

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
June 30 2011 17:41 GMT
#581
On July 01 2011 00:43 VGhost wrote:


7. (Z)Hydra. Hydra lost to (T)Flash, which apparently everybody does in series play these days. Since then - 6-1 in Proleague, 2-0 and progression in ODT. I was tempted to drop him, because seriously who loses to (Z)Juni?

Flash, Bisu, Effort?

Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
June 30 2011 18:00 GMT
#582
No way should Hydra be #7.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
June 30 2011 18:04 GMT
#583
1. (T)Flash
2. (Z)Hydra
3. (Z)Jaedong
4. (P)Bisu
5. (P)JangBi
6. (Z)ZerO
7. (Z)n.Die_soO
8. (P)Movie
9. (P)Horang2
10.(T)Bogus

CBNC: (Z)Neo.G_Soulkey, (T)Light, (Z)RorO*

*If he makes Ro16 and next PR waits until after the ODT finishes. But honestly I don't think any of the remaining ODT games will affect the top 10.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3613 Posts
June 30 2011 18:19 GMT
#584
On July 01 2011 03:00 Mortality wrote:
No way should Hydra be #7.


Too high? Too low? I can't see him higher than #5 (behind Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, ZerO). Probably could be ahead of Jangbi based on resume at this point, but I also think Jangbi's been much more dominant this month. Plus my including YellOw throws the rank off by a place - if you don't like that just move everybody up one.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 18:28:12
June 30 2011 18:24 GMT
#585
Why can't he be higher than Jaedong, Bisu, and ZerO? He has a near perfect PL record, and advanced through the prelims and ODT (no Bisu or ZerO) with multiple wins over Terrans and Zergs. Only one win over Protoss this month, but I don't think we have any reason to doubt his ability in that matchup.

I can see why Jaedong may be higher, but not the others. Unless you utterly ignore the OSL, Hydra must be either #2 or #3, imo. I believe he should be ahead of JD because JD had that mini-slump earlier in the month, but I can accept Hydra #3. I just can't accept Bisu and ZerO, who are currently two rounds behind Hydra in the OSL, being higher (remember that Hydra was only one round behind ZerO in the MSL).
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
June 30 2011 19:11 GMT
#586
Jangbi has been dominating prelims. Prelims are just prelims. How many people each season are qualified for both ODT (or higher) and MST (or higher)? It's very, very common. Between ODT and OSL you have 28. Between MST and MSL you have 48.

Jangbi is looking really good right now, but are you serious when you say someone whose best tournament result in 2-3 years is a Ro16 appearance and has a 17-24 overall PL record is "hotter" than someone who won MSL, made semifinals the next season, also made it out of ODT, was Ro16 OSL last season, and has the 5th best PL record?

What?

What? What? What? What? What?

By the way you are acting, I would think that every single one of Jangbi's wins was over a PR caliber player. It looks to me like he went 2-2 against guys who will be on the PR (1-0 over Zero and Horang2, 0-2 to Soo). A few other decent wins, sure, but if he's not going to have any accomplishments of note under his belt -- and believe me, a year from now nobody is going to remember who won the OGN offline preliminary wildcard -- then I want to see him whip up some S-class threats, repeatedly.

And also, I love Zero, but right now Hydra is a shoe-in for a higher spot. I don't understand the inconsistency in your ranking. You put an absurd emphasis on prelims for Jangbi's sake, but then you're giving Zero the nod over Hydra when Zero failed in the prelims and Hydra is in the OSL? And it's true that Zero was a finalist when Hydra wasn't, but Zero got 3-0'd by Flash just the same as Hydra did. Had the bracket been arranged differently, are you that confident that Jaedong would have beaten Hydra?

And oh, fine, he lost to Juni. Everyone will drop a game to a weaker player from time to time. Juni has also beaten Flash (at the time when Flash got 2nd place to Jaedong in GOM Classic), Effort (shortly after his OSL win), and also Bisu (admittedly during his slump). Not to mention that he knocked Soulkey out of the prelims this season.

The thing is, Starcraft is about the law of averages. Juni sucks not because he "can't beat" a good player but because he normally loses to everybody except Ace team members. I think, given Hydra's other recent results, we can safely rule that loss an anomaly.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11061 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 19:19:51
June 30 2011 19:11 GMT
#587
On July 01 2011 03:00 Mortality wrote:
No way should Hydra be #7.


No, he should be higher

my final rankings:

1 flash
2 hydra
3 jaedong
4 bisu
5 jangbi
6 zero
7 movie
8 soo
9 bogus
10 roro if he qualifies tomorrow, else hoejja
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4721 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 19:32:18
June 30 2011 19:31 GMT
#588
On the case of Jangbi (which happens to be my second favorite player behind Jaedong), these monster streaks kind of happen once in a while to some random a-team player, it's statistically not even unlikely. In Jangbi's case we just know that he once had the skills to back it up, so we can give him a little more credit than others. His record looks totally ridiculous on first sight (21-2 or sth. like that, don't know for sure), but as soon as you see that this i.e. includes wins against Tossgirl, you know it's just highly inflated.

In those cases, I believe #1-#3 should be holy ground, you shouldn't occupy such a rank based on a lucky run if you are not a top3 player. #4 or #5 maybe possible if others don't perform up to their standards, but with Hydra and Zer0 (he still is a MSL finalist) in the mix, the top5 should not be in reach for him, that needs at least another very solid month. I believe #6 is the highest we should go here.

#1 Flash
#2 Bisu
#3 Jaedong
#4 Hydra
#5 Zer0
#6 Jangbi
#7-#10 soo, hoejja, movie, etc.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3613 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 19:40:10
June 30 2011 19:33 GMT
#589
On July 01 2011 04:11 Mortality wrote:
Jangbi has been dominating prelims. Prelims are just prelims. How many people each season are qualified for both ODT (or higher) and MST (or higher)? It's very, very common. Between ODT and OSL you have 28. Between MST and MSL you have 48.

Jangbi is looking really good right now, but are you serious when you say someone whose best tournament result in 2-3 years is a Ro16 appearance and has a 17-24 overall PL record is "hotter" than someone who won MSL, made semifinals the next season, also made it out of ODT, was Ro16 OSL last season, and has the 5th best PL record?

What?

What? What? What? What? What?

By the way you are acting, I would think that every single one of Jangbi's wins was over a PR caliber player. It looks to me like he went 2-2 against guys who will be on the PR (1-0 over Zero and Horang2, 0-2 to Soo). A few other decent wins, sure, but if he's not going to have any accomplishments of note under his belt -- and believe me, a year from now nobody is going to remember who won the OGN offline preliminary wildcard -- then I want to see him whip up some S-class threats, repeatedly.


I admit that Jangbi's a bit of an anomaly in my ranking. Most of that's from the way he absolutely dominated Horang2 and Shuttle, and a little bit of it's pure fanboyism. So let's say we drop him down a couple spots.

On July 01 2011 04:11 Mortality wrote:
And also, I love Zero, but right now Hydra is a shoe-in for a higher spot. I don't understand the inconsistency in your ranking. You put an absurd emphasis on prelims for Jangbi's sake, but then you're giving Zero the nod over Hydra when Zero failed in the prelims and Hydra is in the OSL? And it's true that Zero was a finalist when Hydra wasn't, but Zero got 3-0'd by Flash just the same as Hydra did. Had the bracket been arranged differently, are you that confident that Jaedong would have beaten Hydra?


As I mentioned above, my love for Jangbi isn't really based on the prelims, while ZerO goofing up is something that needs at least an excuse...

At the same time, I think ZerO is actually better than Hydra; I think he played better against Flash than Hydra did (even if the result was the some); and he's been more important to his team over this last month than Hydra. Also I'm a Stars fan. I guess there's an argument to be made the other way, though.

(And yes, I think JD would have beaten Hydra.)

EDIT: Jangbi's record: without counting prelims, Jangbi is 11-1 since May, 8-0 in June with a 6-0 in Proleague play. May: W Sea, Stats, Sacsri L Hydra. June: W Last Crazy-Hydra Hyuk Horang2 HyuN Wooki. (Prelims: all wins except vs soO, qualified for both leagues.) ODT (June): wins over s2, Shuttle.

Okay, it's not the best opponents ever, but still.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
June 30 2011 20:15 GMT
#590
Am I the only who would put JD at 1 and flash at 3-4 since he havent played at all in kt's 2 last PL games and is 0-5 in recent proleague? Taking care of the wrist and MSL curse is all good and taking into consideration but putting him at 1st seems... weird considering he hasn't anything else going for him than "fear" and won starleague cus his last 2 weeks has been pretty bad to be honest.

i just dont feel like he is up there, you might disagree but thats how i feel at this moment...
In the woods, there lurks..
Ermac
Profile Joined June 2011
336 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 20:41:46
June 30 2011 20:37 GMT
#591
On July 01 2011 05:15 Iplaythings wrote:
Am I the only who would put JD at 1 and flash at 3-4 since he havent played at all in kt's 2 last PL games and is 0-5 in recent proleague? Taking care of the wrist and MSL curse is all good and taking into consideration but putting him at 1st seems... weird considering he hasn't anything else going for him than "fear" and won starleague cus his last 2 weeks has been pretty bad to be honest.

i just dont feel like he is up there, you might disagree but thats how i feel at this moment...


You have a point but tying NaDa with a whopping 6-0 in MSL Semis and Finals alone warrants #1 imho. Furthermore JD went on the biggest losing streak of his career at the beginning of this month which isn't exactly something to be proud of either....

Another thing to consider is the ever popular "Bo5 for your life" argument - even with his current wrist condition Flash, not knowing the opponent, would still be the favorite pick for almost everyone I guess.
"Blind aggressiveness would destroy the attack itself, not the defense." - Carl von Clausewitz
ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
June 30 2011 21:01 GMT
#592
On July 01 2011 05:37 Ermac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 05:15 Iplaythings wrote:
Am I the only who would put JD at 1 and flash at 3-4 since he havent played at all in kt's 2 last PL games and is 0-5 in recent proleague? Taking care of the wrist and MSL curse is all good and taking into consideration but putting him at 1st seems... weird considering he hasn't anything else going for him than "fear" and won starleague cus his last 2 weeks has been pretty bad to be honest.

i just dont feel like he is up there, you might disagree but thats how i feel at this moment...


You have a point but tying NaDa with a whopping 6-0 in MSL Semis and Finals alone warrants #1 imho.

But this isn't IFFHS for starcraft, the Power Rank is about who's playing the best now you know.
XXGeneration
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States625 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 21:06:03
June 30 2011 21:05 GMT
#593
my picks would be:

1. (T)Flash
2. (Z)Jaedong
3. (P)Bisu
4. (Z)ZerO
5. (Z)Hydra
6. (Z)n.Die_soO
7. (T)Bogus
8. (Z)Neo.G_Soulkey
9. (P)JangBi
10. (Z)HoeJJa
"I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists... I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple." -Midas
Ermac
Profile Joined June 2011
336 Posts
June 30 2011 21:08 GMT
#594
On July 01 2011 06:01 ZBiR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 05:37 Ermac wrote:
On July 01 2011 05:15 Iplaythings wrote:
Am I the only who would put JD at 1 and flash at 3-4 since he havent played at all in kt's 2 last PL games and is 0-5 in recent proleague? Taking care of the wrist and MSL curse is all good and taking into consideration but putting him at 1st seems... weird considering he hasn't anything else going for him than "fear" and won starleague cus his last 2 weeks has been pretty bad to be honest.

i just dont feel like he is up there, you might disagree but thats how i feel at this moment...


You have a point but tying NaDa with a whopping 6-0 in MSL Semis and Finals alone warrants #1 imho.

But this isn't IFFHS for starcraft, the Power Rank is about who's playing the best now you know.


Power Rank isn't as simple as that and you know it. How do you define "playing the best" for example and how do you define "now". The last game? The last 3 games? Probably the last month is how I would define it. And "playing the best" includes winning titles, setting/matching records and showing incredible Bo5 perfomances imho.

So what is your point exactly?
"Blind aggressiveness would destroy the attack itself, not the defense." - Carl von Clausewitz
ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
June 30 2011 21:22 GMT
#595
On July 01 2011 06:08 Ermac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2011 06:01 ZBiR wrote:
On July 01 2011 05:37 Ermac wrote:
On July 01 2011 05:15 Iplaythings wrote:
Am I the only who would put JD at 1 and flash at 3-4 since he havent played at all in kt's 2 last PL games and is 0-5 in recent proleague? Taking care of the wrist and MSL curse is all good and taking into consideration but putting him at 1st seems... weird considering he hasn't anything else going for him than "fear" and won starleague cus his last 2 weeks has been pretty bad to be honest.

i just dont feel like he is up there, you might disagree but thats how i feel at this moment...


You have a point but tying NaDa with a whopping 6-0 in MSL Semis and Finals alone warrants #1 imho.

But this isn't IFFHS for starcraft, the Power Rank is about who's playing the best now you know.


Power Rank isn't as simple as that and you know it. How do you define "playing the best" for example and how do you define "now". The last game? The last 3 games? Probably the last month is how I would define it. And "playing the best" includes winning titles, setting/matching records and showing incredible Bo5 perfomances imho.

So what is your point exactly?

You said that achieving particular statistical record alone warrants number 1 in PR. I said it's not. That's was point. It was clearly visible, you know. It doesn't matter if you argue about horizon, the above statement was not true.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
June 30 2011 21:22 GMT
#596
JD's ZvZ is a bit suspect right now and his ZvP isn't so dominant as ELO indicates. He no longer looks like he's on a level Protoss players cannot touch. #1 is pushing it.

Regarding MSL, I don't see how anyone can feel certain that Hydra wouldn't have been able to beat JD. If they faced in a bo5 right now I'd bet 60/40 in favor of Hydra, who already beat JD pretty convincingly at a time when JD's ZvZ was looking sharper than it does right now. Again, you're reading way too much into a single loss against Juni.

Zero is stronger than Hydra at ZvT, but at ZvZ Hydra is stronger and I actually think Hydra may be stronger at ZvP. Zero plays a very smart ZvP, but he also drops games much more frequently. Zero is Zero. When he's on he drops my jaw; when he's off I cringe.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
June 30 2011 21:48 GMT
#597
So where is the new Power Rank? It's 10 hours late already (Tuvalu Time). I'm severely disappointed.
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
June 30 2011 21:50 GMT
#598
On July 01 2011 06:48 okum wrote:
So where is the new Power Rank? It's 10 hours late already (Tuvalu Time). I'm severely disappointed.


I remember once that PR rank has been delayed by 2 weeks... ah 10 hours is nothing.....
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
June 30 2011 22:13 GMT
#599
I run on EDT.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-30 22:21:43
June 30 2011 22:21 GMT
#600
I demand a new PR writer who respects TL time.

You suck, Flamewheel, you suck.

+ Show Spoiler +

JK :D
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
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