On June 29 2011 02:53 Mortality wrote: I DON'T see Jangbi overtaking Bisu. A YEAR of failure followed by one good -- but NOT great (Jangbi's has taken a few decent players, but he's mostly played scrubs who I would EXPECT a PR player to rape; it's not like Jangbi is in the finals of OSL) -- month is not enough to surpass someone who has been winning over 75% of his games for more than 8 months.
I agree with you that Jangbi shouldn't be ahead of Bisu. This being a huge Jangbi fan who has watched him since 2008. But why do you expect a PR player to rape mediocre competition? Other than Jaedong and Flash, which player has consistently done this while playing in a SL at the same time? And usually players who had done this in spurts, like hydra, effort, Calm/not-Clam, they weren't just on the PR, but VERY HIGH on the PR.
Other than your usual suspects, it's actually rare to see consistent stomp of average competition for a player who also make a run in the SLs.
??
I don't know why we're talking about SL since I'm talking about my expectations of a player on the PR, and Jangbi has not played a single SL match since July of 2010 so I'm afraid I miss how SL is relevant to my argument.
I expect better players to win over worse players and PR players are the top 10 hottest in progaming.
On June 29 2011 06:09 swanized wrote: meanwhile, when some of you guys are thinking of dropping Soulkey from the PR and classing SOO as having more potential
I don't think there's any argument that soO's somehow become a better player than Soulkey, overall.
But over the last month or so? They've definitely been very close, and soO's got the OSL thing going for him, for now.
On the other hand, Soulkey's coming off a #4 PR month, so while soO's at least close to earning his way on, I don't see him higher than 7-9 because he's never been good in anything but streaks. Soulkey will likely drop to 6-ish but right now anything further depends on the rest of the month.
The last few PL matches are essentially meaningless (except for STX, FOX, and OZ, naturally), so I'm thinking the MSL prelim is going to be a "tiebreaker" for a lot of the close decisions. For example, Jangbi's on a nice run at the moment, complete with OSL, but if he somehow fails out in prelims, Horang2 and Bisu are already seeded into at least the MST (I don't remember exactly), so the "Starleague qualification, look!" argument gets a lot weaker.
I really hope that this break in pl will allow bisu to own face in the potentially upcoming sl. SKT should like ban him from proleague until bisu makes ro8 or something
On June 29 2011 06:09 swanized wrote: meanwhile, when some of you guys are thinking of dropping Soulkey from the PR and classing SOO as having more potential
I havent gone "wow Soo is that good" the same way I had with soulkey, I havent watched many games with him but those I watched were descently good, nothing "wow" though.
Another thing is that most of his wins has been vs protoss, while Soulkey has lost vs 2 protoss it seems like it is to Suns and M18M's credit rather than Soulkeys discredit. Soo also has won vs 2 terrans this month, and both mind and Iris played sloppily those games so I wouldnt put that to his benefit.
Soo is probably going to land in the range of 9-10. He's been giving results for the past couple of months, but mainly all in the same match: ZvP. We have no real proof of ability in ZvT or ZvZ. ELO says everything that anybody knows about Soo: 2018 ZvT, 1992 ZvZ, 2134 ZvP (#8 vP, #4 ZvP).
Soulkey will at best be on CBNC. Actually, taking a second look at Soulkey, ZvP is a serious weak point. The only competent PvZer he beat all year so far was Stats... in May when Stats was already on his current 7 game loss streak. His ZvP record seems inflated since he's played: M18M 4 times, Shy, By.Sun 2 times, Jangbi back in February, and Reach. I wouldn't be surprised to see Soulkey drop off the rank. In retrospect he may have been ranked too high. Rank 6 or 7 may have been more appropriate.
But ZERO!! hsa been under ranked by just about everybody this month.
I think Hoejja CBNC is fine. #10 at most and I say that as a huge KT fan and as someone who remembers Hoejja's series vs Much in GOM (first time he got any real attention at all). I love Hoejja and he's definitely better than his results show, but let's not jump the gun
EDIT: 2-0'ing Shuttle into the MST is a big argument for #10 though. His play has been strong.
30th of June, no more games left in the month, PR:
1. Flash. It's been a rough month for... who am I kidding? KT made the playoffs weeks ago, Flash won the Golden Badge, tied NaDa - a few bad PL weeks and a couple losses to Jaedong that don't matter don't mean anything. Now fix that wrist!
2. YellOw. For any other player, an honorary #2 on retirement would be just a cruel joke. For YellOw - we'll miss you, but Flash tying NaDa is bigger news than your retirement. You picked a bad month to retire, otherwise we might give you #1 for all those years of dedication.
3. Jaedong. That 5-game (thanks Mumei) slide was a little ugly, but the Dong snapped right back to form with an 8-game winstreak and a 2-0 record against Flash.
4. Bisu. If Bisu had played anybody good this month other than Action, he might be #3 over Jaedong, but given that he didn't, that ODT prelim loss to hyvaa (who got beat by Anyppi in the MST prelims) is massively damaging. Also the fact that he lost to RorO is bad - Bisu is only 3-3 in PvZ this month, which is unheard of.
5. ZerO. Lest we forget, Flash took his Golden Badge off this guy, who had just beaten Jaedong. And yeah, he got demolished in the Final. And yeah, he goofed up in ODT prelims too (although at least he had the grace to lose in his worst matchup instead of his best, and got close enough to make the wildcard even if he lost there). But finally, ZerO's got to get a lot of credit for Woongjin managing to not utterly fail: 6-1 over the month with two ace wins counts for a lot.
6. JangBi. Since the beginning of May there hasn't been a hotter player in progaming. We're talking 24-3 over those two months, dual league qualifications, won his ODT group 2-0, 6-0 in Proleague as KHAN made its mad scramble (or blind luck fail-success) into playoff position.
7. Hydra. Hydra lost to Flash, which apparently everybody does in series play these days. Since then - 6-1 in Proleague, 2-0 and progression in ODT. I was tempted to drop him, because seriously who loses to Juni? - but in the end there's a dearth of players with better credentials.
8. Bogus. As the rest of STX falls apart, Bogus has stepped up and won in the clutch. 6-2 in Proleague on the month (and the losses are BeSt and Neo.G_Soulkey), he made both leagues - and got the short end of the draw with a Flash-Jaedong group he was never going to win.
9. n.Die_soO. In the "things that make no sense" category: an SKT Zerg is undefeated in Proleague at 6-0 in the month, qualified for both leagues, and then advanced through the ODT. Wait, what?
10. HoeJJa. Sure, a 4-2 Proleague record isn't really anything special. But with Flash out for the regular season, at least somebody stepped up and said, "Wait a minute guys, I can win!" With an MST qualification added to his resume, let's go with #10 for this guy.
CBNC/Other potential low ranks: Movie (6-1 PL, MST), Mind (5-2 PL, ODT (1-2 loss in tough group), MSL seed), RorO (4-2 PL, beat Bisu, ODT prelim win over Movie, MST seed).
On July 01 2011 00:43 VGhost wrote:3. Jaedong. That 6-game slide was a little ugly, but the Dong snapped right back to form with an 8-game winstreak and a 2-0 record against Flash.
personally i can wait until after groups e/f of the osl qualifier, seems like a sensible cutof. probably won't affect much though, could solidify roro into a cbnc or low rank if he smashes his group but that's about it
EPT
