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Power Rank 09/14/2010 - Page 15

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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St. Fu
Profile Joined August 2010
United States75 Posts
September 25 2010 22:42 GMT
#281
Going to be sad to see this without Effort. T.T
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
September 25 2010 23:46 GMT
#282
On September 26 2010 07:14 kamizushi wrote:
does anybody know when does the next season start. I'm getting bored

Sometime in October. It's coming soon, and the bad news will probably end soon as the season starts.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
September 26 2010 00:14 GMT
#283
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
September 26 2010 08:12 GMT
#284
don't worry, there's another whole month for the thread to grow (I assume that there won't be an october rank)
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
September 26 2010 12:50 GMT
#285
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!
Hey
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
September 26 2010 17:06 GMT
#286
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-27 01:26:41
September 27 2010 00:50 GMT
#287
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable.

Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much.
Hey
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-27 00:52:58
September 27 2010 00:51 GMT
#288
sry double post
Hey
Monkeyshark
Profile Joined April 2010
United States406 Posts
September 27 2010 02:21 GMT
#289
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. .


Well then I guess Leta, Fantasy, And ForGG are obviously B player that he went 2 port wraith against just recently.

I think they(Fantasy and Leta) deserves to be off this Power Rank from your opinion.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
September 27 2010 05:48 GMT
#290
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable.

Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much.


Flash plays aggressively far more often than he turtles though.

It's true that he is exemplary at turtling, but the vast vast majority of his TvZs and TvPs have been aggressive 2 base pushes. Most of his games end with a midgame attack rather than a late game engagement.
Remember Violet.
showme458
Profile Joined September 2010
Korea (South)2 Posts
September 27 2010 12:46 GMT
#291
Wow. now 5 Terran. 2 Zerg. 3 Toss.
Actually.. there is only 1 Zerg now.
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
September 27 2010 13:43 GMT
#292
On September 27 2010 11:21 Monkeyshark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. .


Well then I guess Leta, Fantasy, And ForGG are obviously B player that he went 2 port wraith against just recently.

I think they(Fantasy and Leta) deserves to be off this Power Rank from your opinion.


Well I had 2 ports wrath in TvZ in mind. In TvT 2 ports wrath is fairly standard and do not involve that much risk because you will need dropships anyway, it's one of the rock-paper-scissor build.
Hey
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
September 28 2010 00:17 GMT
#293
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable.

Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much.

So because he built 100+ turrets in one game, he is an absolute defensive player no matter any other consideration, but when he went 2-port wraiths in several other games, it's only because he played so many games this year it was bound to happen eventually? Very consistent there.

The fact is Flash is the most versatile player as well as the best. He has excelled at every part of the game in every strategy known to terran (plus innovating a few of his own).

This is the story of Flash's career. When he cheesed Bisu three years ago, he was called just a cheddar terran. When he macroed up huge armies off three bases he was called just a turtle terran. The guy does everything. He is not dependent on any one style.
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 01:14:49
September 28 2010 01:13 GMT
#294
On September 28 2010 09:17 SimonB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable.

Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much.

So because he built 100+ turrets in one game, he is an absolute defensive player no matter any other consideration, but when he went 2-port wraiths in several other games, it's only because he played so many games this year it was bound to happen eventually? Very consistent there.

The fact is Flash is the most versatile player as well as the best. He has excelled at every part of the game in every strategy known to terran (plus innovating a few of his own).

This is the story of Flash's career. When he cheesed Bisu three years ago, he was called just a cheddar terran. When he macroed up huge armies off three bases he was called just a turtle terran. The guy does everything. He is not dependent on any one style.

I think you need to read my post again, I gave several arguments on why I think Flash is defencive, not just one as you suggest. This mean I made other considerations. I agree that he is the best. He is a very calculative player, he is capable of other strategies, (he shows it from time to time). But he goes for the safest strategy, which , most of the time, means defencive until he can make a timing push or a counterattack. I'm not questioning the effectiveness of his style, I'm questioning it's entertainment value.
Hey
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
September 28 2010 02:51 GMT
#295
On September 28 2010 10:13 kamizushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2010 09:17 SimonB wrote:
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable.

Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much.

So because he built 100+ turrets in one game, he is an absolute defensive player no matter any other consideration, but when he went 2-port wraiths in several other games, it's only because he played so many games this year it was bound to happen eventually? Very consistent there.

The fact is Flash is the most versatile player as well as the best. He has excelled at every part of the game in every strategy known to terran (plus innovating a few of his own).

This is the story of Flash's career. When he cheesed Bisu three years ago, he was called just a cheddar terran. When he macroed up huge armies off three bases he was called just a turtle terran. The guy does everything. He is not dependent on any one style.

I think you need to read my post again, I gave several arguments on why I think Flash is defencive, not just one as you suggest. This mean I made other considerations. I agree that he is the best. He is a very calculative player, he is capable of other strategies, (he shows it from time to time). But he goes for the safest strategy, which , most of the time, means defencive until he can make a timing push or a counterattack. I'm not questioning the effectiveness of his style, I'm questioning it's entertainment value.


Define for us playing "not defensive". So far it's 2 port wraith but only vs zerg, harass, and early (I dont know what this means) drop play?

How do you account for Flash's take on the FD push earlier this year vs P? What about his tornado terran-esque gameplay in the same matchup? Let's talk about his insane 2 base SK terran that he used exclusively from October to February, or about the 6 wins in the most recent OSL/MSL against JD where he never once turtled to a victory and threw in two cheese builds?

If you'ld like to define 2 base or greater play as defensive go right ahead. Every player in the game is defensive then. You've got some ground to stand on in him being defensive in TvT, but seriously, it's TvT that's just business as usual.

In regard to this PR in general:

Dunno why so many Flash fans are upset about this PR, do we really need to hear how great Flash is? We know he's good, it's undeniable. I kind of like the less dramatic more matter of fact style of this PR. As for the Flash fans who are reading way to much into Wax's wording and somehow backing out that he has an extreme anti-Flash bias.. come on lets be reasonable. Flash is good, don't be butt hurt because he didn't get 11 pages of praise in this PR, you know that someone will come along with a sweet Final Edit and we can all bask in the glory of that.
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-28 03:09:07
September 28 2010 03:08 GMT
#296
On September 27 2010 21:46 showme458 wrote:
Wow. now 5 Terran. 2 Zerg. 3 Toss.
Actually.. there is only 1 Zerg now.


no zero is in instead
Writer
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
September 28 2010 10:56 GMT
#297
On September 28 2010 12:08 swanized wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2010 21:46 showme458 wrote:
Wow. now 5 Terran. 2 Zerg. 3 Toss.
Actually.. there is only 1 Zerg now.


no zero is in instead


He would be in. For some reason, Waxangle doesn't count the STX Cup like Plexa did.

Just because Kespa rankings don't reflect it, doesn't mean PR doesn't have to. This is the Western ranking; let us be a little unique.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
September 28 2010 14:26 GMT
#298
On September 28 2010 11:51 revy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2010 10:13 kamizushi wrote:
On September 28 2010 09:17 SimonB wrote:
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote:
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote:
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments ..


Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous)

Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!!


He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero).

Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable.

Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much.

So because he built 100+ turrets in one game, he is an absolute defensive player no matter any other consideration, but when he went 2-port wraiths in several other games, it's only because he played so many games this year it was bound to happen eventually? Very consistent there.

The fact is Flash is the most versatile player as well as the best. He has excelled at every part of the game in every strategy known to terran (plus innovating a few of his own).

This is the story of Flash's career. When he cheesed Bisu three years ago, he was called just a cheddar terran. When he macroed up huge armies off three bases he was called just a turtle terran. The guy does everything. He is not dependent on any one style.

I think you need to read my post again, I gave several arguments on why I think Flash is defencive, not just one as you suggest. This mean I made other considerations. I agree that he is the best. He is a very calculative player, he is capable of other strategies, (he shows it from time to time). But he goes for the safest strategy, which , most of the time, means defencive until he can make a timing push or a counterattack. I'm not questioning the effectiveness of his style, I'm questioning it's entertainment value.


Define for us playing "not defensive". So far it's 2 port wraith but only vs zerg, harass, and early (I dont know what this means) drop play?

How do you account for Flash's take on the FD push earlier this year vs P? What about his tornado terran-esque gameplay in the same matchup? Let's talk about his insane 2 base SK terran that he used exclusively from October to February, or about the 6 wins in the most recent OSL/MSL against JD where he never once turtled to a victory and threw in two cheese builds?

If you'ld like to define 2 base or greater play as defensive go right ahead. Every player in the game is defensive then. You've got some ground to stand on in him being defensive in TvT, but seriously, it's TvT that's just business as usual.[...]


First, I would like to thank you, revy, for bringing a rational and convincing counter-argumentation.

I feel like, when other players were working to make terrans unpredictable, Flash's innovation was meant to make them unbreakable. Think of the new builds we have seen in the past 2 years in TvZ. The fantasy build (and the others mech build), Oov fake mech, 2 ports wrath was perfected by Leta, all these builds are meant to keep the opponent off balance. Now I don't feel Flash really participated to this. Yes, I most admit 2 base SK is a fairly aggressive build but Flash's invocation consisted mainly of better sim city, superior Marine positioning for a faster and safer expend and with his superior M&M control he could protect himself vs Muta. Also I have already mentioned the usage of bunkers to protect a tank line. Before Flash, it was already popular in TvP but Flash also made it popular in TvZ. When facing Fantasy, you expect harassment, most likely with vultures but you are never sure, Fantasy can tech switch at any time, it's very difficult to guess what he is gonna do. With Flash, it's usually not that hard to read him but there is nothing you can do about it. He is unbreakable, and once he take the offensive, it's note just to harass you , Flash want kill 1-3 bases. He goes for the blow. All he does is so legitimate it's almost disgusting. He makes Terran look imba.

Perhaps defencive wasn't the right word to express what I wanted to say. I have never thought of Flash as a tornado player but now that I think of is, it's true he have done it a lot recently. Actually everything you have say is perfectly true.
Hey
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
September 28 2010 15:51 GMT
#299
There's pretty much no playstyle label you can give Flash, currently. He's demonstrated such a broad array of playstyles that you can't really peg him as anything. He cheeses, timing pushes, and turtles more than any other player (possibly because he also plays, by far, the most games). He is arguably the least predictable player around, especially after his OSL win over Jaedong.
Remember Violet.
p14c
Profile Joined May 2010
Vatican City State431 Posts
September 28 2010 17:16 GMT
#300
Flash is the only Terran player ever that used a 5rax rush in a starleague final so kamizushi please stfu and actually watch the games before posting stupid comments about Flash being boringly defensive!
Game Over, Man! Game Over!
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