EPTPower Rank 09/14/2010 - Page 15
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St. Fu
United States75 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On September 26 2010 07:14 kamizushi wrote: does anybody know when does the next season start. I'm getting bored Sometime in October. It's coming soon, and the bad news will probably end soon as the season starts. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On September 26 2010 06:47 Kenpachi wrote: Its the end of the month and less than 300 comments  ..Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous) | ||
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nodule
Canada931 Posts
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
On September 26 2010 09:14 SubtleArt wrote: Yea, theres nothing going on so really nothing to talk about. The Waxangel hates Flash thing kinda dried out too (although I'm not complaining, it was ridiculous) Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!! | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On September 26 2010 21:50 kamizushi wrote: Hey I don't mind, I don't like Flash much. He's way to good I want him to loose for a change, I mean this guy is so good he broke the game. Also I don't like terrans with defensive style. BRING THE CHEESE SHOW US SOME WACKY BUILD!!!!! He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero). | ||
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
On September 27 2010 02:06 Lebesgue wrote: He did cheese twice against Jaedong in OSL. And I am tired of people saying Flash is playing defensively. He was playing super aggressive this year, both in TvZ and TvP though obviously from time to time he did turtle (like in the game against Zero). Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable. Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much. | ||
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
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Monkeyshark
United States406 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote: And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. . Well then I guess Leta, Fantasy, And ForGG are obviously B player that he went 2 port wraith against just recently. I think they(Fantasy and Leta) deserves to be off this Power Rank from your opinion. | ||
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote: Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable. Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much. Flash plays aggressively far more often than he turtles though. It's true that he is exemplary at turtling, but the vast vast majority of his TvZs and TvPs have been aggressive 2 base pushes. Most of his games end with a midgame attack rather than a late game engagement. | ||
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showme458
Korea (South)2 Posts
Actually.. there is only 1 Zerg now. | ||
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
On September 27 2010 11:21 Monkeyshark wrote: Well then I guess Leta, Fantasy, And ForGG are obviously B player that he went 2 port wraith against just recently. I think they(Fantasy and Leta) deserves to be off this Power Rank from your opinion. Well I had 2 ports wrath in TvZ in mind. In TvT 2 ports wrath is fairly standard and do not involve that much risk because you will need dropships anyway, it's one of the rock-paper-scissor build. | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
On September 27 2010 09:50 kamizushi wrote: Any player who build 100+ turrets in a game deserve to be labelled as defencive. He re-popularized the use of bunkers to protect your tank wall in every match up, you got to admit Flash matches often sum up has lot of defence until he sense he has the advantage and cripple his opponent with a timing push. not much harassment, not many early game drops from him. And wrath is just to risky for him. And please don't try to find this one game where he used 2 ports wrath vs a B player, he played freaking 144 games this year. Flash is just the ultimate MinMaxer who cheeses only the strict minimum without getting predictable. Of course he isn't MVP for whom my hate knows no bound. I don't hate Flash, I just don't like him much. So because he built 100+ turrets in one game, he is an absolute defensive player no matter any other consideration, but when he went 2-port wraiths in several other games, it's only because he played so many games this year it was bound to happen eventually? Very consistent there. The fact is Flash is the most versatile player as well as the best. He has excelled at every part of the game in every strategy known to terran (plus innovating a few of his own). This is the story of Flash's career. When he cheesed Bisu three years ago, he was called just a cheddar terran. When he macroed up huge armies off three bases he was called just a turtle terran. The guy does everything. He is not dependent on any one style. | ||
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:17 SimonB wrote: So because he built 100+ turrets in one game, he is an absolute defensive player no matter any other consideration, but when he went 2-port wraiths in several other games, it's only because he played so many games this year it was bound to happen eventually? Very consistent there. The fact is Flash is the most versatile player as well as the best. He has excelled at every part of the game in every strategy known to terran (plus innovating a few of his own). This is the story of Flash's career. When he cheesed Bisu three years ago, he was called just a cheddar terran. When he macroed up huge armies off three bases he was called just a turtle terran. The guy does everything. He is not dependent on any one style. I think you need to read my post again, I gave several arguments on why I think Flash is defencive, not just one as you suggest. This mean I made other considerations. I agree that he is the best. He is a very calculative player, he is capable of other strategies, (he shows it from time to time). But he goes for the safest strategy, which , most of the time, means defencive until he can make a timing push or a counterattack. I'm not questioning the effectiveness of his style, I'm questioning it's entertainment value. | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
On September 28 2010 10:13 kamizushi wrote: I think you need to read my post again, I gave several arguments on why I think Flash is defencive, not just one as you suggest. This mean I made other considerations. I agree that he is the best. He is a very calculative player, he is capable of other strategies, (he shows it from time to time). But he goes for the safest strategy, which , most of the time, means defencive until he can make a timing push or a counterattack. I'm not questioning the effectiveness of his style, I'm questioning it's entertainment value. Define for us playing "not defensive". So far it's 2 port wraith but only vs zerg, harass, and early (I dont know what this means) drop play? How do you account for Flash's take on the FD push earlier this year vs P? What about his tornado terran-esque gameplay in the same matchup? Let's talk about his insane 2 base SK terran that he used exclusively from October to February, or about the 6 wins in the most recent OSL/MSL against JD where he never once turtled to a victory and threw in two cheese builds? If you'ld like to define 2 base or greater play as defensive go right ahead. Every player in the game is defensive then. You've got some ground to stand on in him being defensive in TvT, but seriously, it's TvT that's just business as usual. In regard to this PR in general: Dunno why so many Flash fans are upset about this PR, do we really need to hear how great Flash is? We know he's good, it's undeniable. I kind of like the less dramatic more matter of fact style of this PR. As for the Flash fans who are reading way to much into Wax's wording and somehow backing out that he has an extreme anti-Flash bias.. come on lets be reasonable. Flash is good, don't be butt hurt because he didn't get 11 pages of praise in this PR, you know that someone will come along with a sweet Final Edit and we can all bask in the glory of that. | ||
swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On September 27 2010 21:46 showme458 wrote: Wow. now 5 Terran. 2 Zerg. 3 Toss. Actually.. there is only 1 Zerg now. no zero is in instead | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
He would be in. For some reason, Waxangle doesn't count the STX Cup like Plexa did. Just because Kespa rankings don't reflect it, doesn't mean PR doesn't have to. This is the Western ranking; let us be a little unique. | ||
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kamizushi
Canada52 Posts
On September 28 2010 11:51 revy wrote: Define for us playing "not defensive". So far it's 2 port wraith but only vs zerg, harass, and early (I dont know what this means) drop play? How do you account for Flash's take on the FD push earlier this year vs P? What about his tornado terran-esque gameplay in the same matchup? Let's talk about his insane 2 base SK terran that he used exclusively from October to February, or about the 6 wins in the most recent OSL/MSL against JD where he never once turtled to a victory and threw in two cheese builds? If you'ld like to define 2 base or greater play as defensive go right ahead. Every player in the game is defensive then. You've got some ground to stand on in him being defensive in TvT, but seriously, it's TvT that's just business as usual.[...] First, I would like to thank you, revy, for bringing a rational and convincing counter-argumentation. I feel like, when other players were working to make terrans unpredictable, Flash's innovation was meant to make them unbreakable. Think of the new builds we have seen in the past 2 years in TvZ. The fantasy build (and the others mech build), Oov fake mech, 2 ports wrath was perfected by Leta, all these builds are meant to keep the opponent off balance. Now I don't feel Flash really participated to this. Yes, I most admit 2 base SK is a fairly aggressive build but Flash's invocation consisted mainly of better sim city, superior Marine positioning for a faster and safer expend and with his superior M&M control he could protect himself vs Muta. Also I have already mentioned the usage of bunkers to protect a tank line. Before Flash, it was already popular in TvP but Flash also made it popular in TvZ. When facing Fantasy, you expect harassment, most likely with vultures but you are never sure, Fantasy can tech switch at any time, it's very difficult to guess what he is gonna do. With Flash, it's usually not that hard to read him but there is nothing you can do about it. He is unbreakable, and once he take the offensive, it's note just to harass you , Flash want kill 1-3 bases. He goes for the blow. All he does is so legitimate it's almost disgusting. He makes Terran look imba. Perhaps defencive wasn't the right word to express what I wanted to say. I have never thought of Flash as a tornado player but now that I think of is, it's true he have done it a lot recently. Actually everything you have say is perfectly true. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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