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"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. "
p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer.
Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now.
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On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE
look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show.
predictions:
flash is going to win everything this year:
MSL, OSL, and KT will take the starleagues.
( MSL, OSL will have TvT finals )
terrans will dominate for the next cycle.
i fucking hate starcraft.
What a joke. We just came out of an era in which Zerg dominated hard, including double ZvZ finals. Put some thought into what you say before you become the next AzureEye (a blabbering fool)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 05 2010 07:01 KwarK wrote:
This seemed a very weird PR but I can't fault it. I wracked my brains to try and think who is actually playing decently these days and still couldn't fill 2-9 with any confidence. The only other player who is consistently impressing me these days is Baby but I can't put him much higher than you did. Light is a bit dubious after his humiliation at the hands of PerfectMan (I know I wrote a defence of Light in the OSL news but even so, PerfectMan is the worst progamer). Guess I'll let it slide. One thing to note though is that Stork's play hasn't been that impressive lately. He's getting by because everyone is playing badly but still, he's lost something and that makes me want him ranked low. You summed up the issues I had with this ranking nicely.
On April 05 2010 15:45 scorinaldi wrote:Show nested quote +"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. " p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer. Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now. No I completely disagree with this. I don't think Terran has any inherent advantage over any other race at being bonjwa, its just how it turned out.
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Get back up and show everyone that Flash isnt that good Jaedong!
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On April 05 2010 15:45 scorinaldi wrote:Show nested quote +"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. " p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer. Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now.
I absolutely LOL'd at your "terran is a... easier race to play". You mention Boxer yet you obviously don't realize how Boxer dominated when terran was by far the weakest race to play. Stable, perhaps. Easier? Are you kidding?
And Jaedong didn't win golden "mice" LOL. That would be pretty hilarious haha, and plus I like how you say there's an imbalance vs. zerg when a few seasons ago, it was basically every single zerg raping every single terran (and almost every toss), and almost all the Kespa top 10 were zergs, and the MSL finals was a ZvZ. Oh, wait, that was around the time when JD was "running his 10 ZvT win streak". Fancy that. And during the "golden age of protoss", there didn't seem to be many terrans at the top, were there? Hmm.
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Interesting ranking! It is funny though, nobody seems "right" at number 2 because Flash is so far ahead of everybody at the moment. Also, I would have put Hwasin in a low spot since he seems to be winning effortlessly at the moment (albeit against less than top tier opponents), but other than that, its a good rank :D
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On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE
look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show.
Winner's League was a story of Terran because the current map pool is quite Terran biased in TvZ, neutral or favorable for TvP (varies a lot by map), and generally bad for PvZ. Normally, P>=T>Z>P... currently we're at risk of P<=T>>Z>>P. (I tend to think Winner's League exaggerates the imbalance compared to Proleague, because you can't dodge the maps that ruin your race in a matchup, and you don't have as much time to prepare a brilliant workaround for the aspects of the map that ruin you in that particular matchup.)
Protoss dominated on Protoss maps (with Bisu and Stork the best players in the world, winning OSL/MSL), Zerg dominated right after on Zerg maps (with Jaedong the best player in the world, winning OSL), and Terran is now dominating on Terran maps (with Flash the best player in the world, winning OSL). Each time, we were gearing up for a bonjwa of that particular race, and there was a large supporting cast of A-level players of that particular race creeping into the S-Class, before the favoritism shifted.
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In the last 7 matches he's played, Sea has only lost to one guy - Flash. So he definitely deserves to be where he is. Light's form on the other hand is dropping...
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 05 2010 19:09 Ryo wrote:
In the last 7 matches he's played, Sea has only lost to one guy - Flash. So he definitely deserves to be where he is. Light's form on the other hand is dropping...
Agreed, but Light's March was still better than Sea's since you have to assume that Sea would have won the same matches as light did for him to place as high. With light you actually know he did it lol.
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On April 05 2010 18:24 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE
look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show. Winner's League was a story of Terran because the current map pool is quite Terran biased in TvZ, neutral or favorable for TvP (varies a lot by map), and generally bad for PvZ. Normally, P>=T>Z>P... currently we're at risk of P<=T>>Z>>P. (I tend to think Winner's League exaggerates the imbalance compared to Proleague, because you can't dodge the maps that ruin your race in a matchup, and you don't have as much time to prepare a brilliant workaround for the aspects of the map that ruin you in that particular matchup.) Protoss dominated on Protoss maps (with Bisu and Stork the best players in the world, winning OSL/MSL), Zerg dominated right after on Zerg maps (with Jaedong the best player in the world, winning OSL), and Terran is now dominating on Terran maps (with Flash the best player in the world, winning OSL). Each time, we were gearing up for a bonjwa of that particular race, and there was a large supporting cast of A-level players of that particular race creeping into the S-Class, before the favoritism shifted.
yeah, this is absolutely true.
bisu/stork/jangbi/free/kal/best
jaedong/effort/calm/zero/kwanro/yarnc
flash/sea/light/fantasy/hwasin/baby/leta
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On April 05 2010 19:21 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 19:09 Ryo wrote:
In the last 7 matches he's played, Sea has only lost to one guy - Flash. So he definitely deserves to be where he is. Light's form on the other hand is dropping...
Agreed, but Light's March was still better than Sea's since you have to assume that Sea would have won the same matches as light did for him to place as high. With light you actually know he did it lol.
I agree that Light overall had a better March. I'm just saying that Sea has a better chance of sustaining this form while Light is showing signs of falling off because the pple whom Light lost to over the last 2 weeks, Sea beat convincingly.
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On April 04 2010 05:30 o[twist] wrote:
Sea way too high, sorry
add Hwasin to CNBC, he is killing in individual leagues. might even replace Leta with him much as i love Leta
+1
Sea is WAY WAY too high.
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On April 05 2010 18:24 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE
look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show. Winner's League was a story of Terran because the current map pool is quite Terran biased in TvZ, neutral or favorable for TvP (varies a lot by map), and generally bad for PvZ. Normally, P>=T>Z>P... currently we're at risk of P<=T>>Z>>P. (I tend to think Winner's League exaggerates the imbalance compared to Proleague, because you can't dodge the maps that ruin your race in a matchup, and you don't have as much time to prepare a brilliant workaround for the aspects of the map that ruin you in that particular matchup.) Protoss dominated on Protoss maps (with Bisu and Stork the best players in the world, winning OSL/MSL), Zerg dominated right after on Zerg maps (with Jaedong the best player in the world, winning OSL), and Terran is now dominating on Terran maps (with Flash the best player in the world, winning OSL). Each time, we were gearing up for a bonjwa of that particular race, and there was a large supporting cast of A-level players of that particular race creeping into the S-Class, before the favoritism shifted.
Yes, people don't put enough weight on the importance of the maps. Really, the skill gap between those progamers who are supposedly the best and those who are just middling is small enough that variation in map balance is more than enough to allow the latter group to topple the former.
Perhaps there was a time when the gap was wide enough for those at the top to be able to overcome such differences, but it has become plain that such a time is long past. Fans focus too much on the players themselves and not enough on the maps, when the latter may very well be the driving force behind many of the results.
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Well, lets not get ahead with the supposed terran dominance yet. Yes, terran players generaly did pretty well in the WL, but the preformance in individual leagues was abysmal by every terran not name Flash of Fantasy.
Just on top of my head I know about season when both MSL and OSL finals were ZvZ. I also remeber MSL semifinals where all players were protoss. But when was the last time we saw a TvT final or even TvT semifinal in MSL or OSL? Flash vs ForGG in MSL semis I guess. Yep mid 2008. That was also the last time terran won a starleague before Flash won OSL last season.
Last season, Flash was the only terran in MSL and OSL semifinals combined, couple of seasons before that Fantasy was the only terran who was able to make into later stages of OSL.
That's the terran dominance? Terran's been sucking for ages and now, when they won some games we should be like hurr durr change maps nao?
I'm reserving my judgement until I see how all these dominant terran players fare in upcoming starleagues.
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One player I would have liked to see in CNBC is  Pure. He's still completely inconsistent in Proleague play but over the last year or so he's broken out to become, if not a Starleague power, at least showing consistently dangerous play - and now he's a dual-leaguer, and won his first game in his OSL group. My only reservation for the MSL is that his group is  Light,  Calm, and free, which could be trouble, but I still feel like he's at least the 2nd-best player in that group at the moment - and you put free, who I'd put 3rd or 4th in the group, on the PR.
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United States5866 Posts
On April 06 2010 01:18 Draconizard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 18:24 Severedevil wrote:On April 05 2010 15:37 scorinaldi wrote:
terran = f*cking EASY MODE
look at the Tv(ANYTHING) win rate for the last three months. the game is imbalanced, and it's starting to show. Winner's League was a story of Terran because the current map pool is quite Terran biased in TvZ, neutral or favorable for TvP (varies a lot by map), and generally bad for PvZ. Normally, P>=T>Z>P... currently we're at risk of P<=T>>Z>>P. (I tend to think Winner's League exaggerates the imbalance compared to Proleague, because you can't dodge the maps that ruin your race in a matchup, and you don't have as much time to prepare a brilliant workaround for the aspects of the map that ruin you in that particular matchup.) Protoss dominated on Protoss maps (with Bisu and Stork the best players in the world, winning OSL/MSL), Zerg dominated right after on Zerg maps (with Jaedong the best player in the world, winning OSL), and Terran is now dominating on Terran maps (with Flash the best player in the world, winning OSL). Each time, we were gearing up for a bonjwa of that particular race, and there was a large supporting cast of A-level players of that particular race creeping into the S-Class, before the favoritism shifted. Yes, people don't put enough weight on the importance of the maps. Really, the skill gap between those progamers who are supposedly the best and those who are just middling is small enough that variation in map balance is more than enough to allow the latter group to topple the former. Perhaps there was a time when the gap was wide enough for those at the top to be able to overcome such differences, but it has become plain that such a time is long past. Fans focus too much on the players themselves and not enough on the maps, when the latter may very well be the driving force behind many of the results.
No... just no. S-Class players have always had the ability to transcend map imbalance and it's an important factor on why they are/were really S-Class players.
No amount of map imbalance can explain Bisu's current form...or Stork's.
The two players that routinely have been able to ignore map imbalance are Flash and Jaedong, of which only one is performing to their standards.
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On April 05 2010 16:14 Wings wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 15:45 scorinaldi wrote:"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. " p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer. Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now. I absolutely LOL'd at your "terran is a... easier race to play". You mention Boxer yet you obviously don't realize how Boxer dominated when terran was by far the weakest race to play. Stable, perhaps. Easier? Are you kidding? And Jaedong didn't win golden "mice" LOL. That would be pretty hilarious haha, and plus I like how you say there's an imbalance vs. zerg when a few seasons ago, it was basically every single zerg raping every single terran (and almost every toss), and almost all the Kespa top 10 were zergs, and the MSL finals was a ZvZ. Oh, wait, that was around the time when JD was "running his 10 ZvT win streak". Fancy that. And during the "golden age of protoss", there didn't seem to be many terrans at the top, were there? Hmm.
When Flash was asked which race was the hardest to play, he said it was zerg and that's why he admired Jaedong. Case closed.
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On April 06 2010 02:46 WWJDD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 16:14 Wings wrote:On April 05 2010 15:45 scorinaldi wrote:"Flash is accomplishing what Jaedong could not - he is removing any doubt what so ever that he is the best. " p.s. this is bs. terran is a more stable, easier race to play. don't believe it?: notice how ALL of the previous Bonjwas: Boxer, OOV, Nada with the sole exception of Savior - are all terrans? ) Its easier in Starcraft for terrans to be champs, and when they are they tend to retain the crown longer. Either way, no one (really) doubted Jaedong when he was winning golden mice , and running 10 ZvT win streaks. despite the imbalance vs. zerg, he dominated as much as flash did now. I absolutely LOL'd at your "terran is a... easier race to play". You mention Boxer yet you obviously don't realize how Boxer dominated when terran was by far the weakest race to play. Stable, perhaps. Easier? Are you kidding? And Jaedong didn't win golden "mice" LOL. That would be pretty hilarious haha, and plus I like how you say there's an imbalance vs. zerg when a few seasons ago, it was basically every single zerg raping every single terran (and almost every toss), and almost all the Kespa top 10 were zergs, and the MSL finals was a ZvZ. Oh, wait, that was around the time when JD was "running his 10 ZvT win streak". Fancy that. And during the "golden age of protoss", there didn't seem to be many terrans at the top, were there? Hmm. When Flash was asked which race was the hardest to play, he said it was zerg and that's why he admired Jaedong. Case closed.
He never said Terran was the most difficult race though. He was just pointing out the JD fanboyism and how all the races have their own period of dominance. Like it was said before, most bonjwas are Terran because...that's what ended up happening. Pointing out that Flash thinks Zerg is difficult to play is pointless, a lot of progamers switched races because they thought the old one was harder. I admire zerg players too, I can't play zerg no matter how hard I try, doesn't mean it applies to everyone though, even if it's Flash saying that.
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someone get Stork off of the top 10 
he went 0-2 vs HYDRA AND MVP
unacceptable
he's out of the OSL AND MSL -_-
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EPT
