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Power Rank 04/04/2010 - Page 20

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
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darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
April 20 2010 08:53 GMT
#381
On April 20 2010 10:07 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2010 10:03 Holgerius wrote:
On April 20 2010 08:11 StylishVODs wrote:
Uhm is baby facing flash IF baby defeat MVP and Flash defeats Hwasin or what?
Already discussing that possibility, or do I need to get my facts straight?

Baby is facing Flash in OSL Ro8. Baby vs MVP and Flash vs Hwasin is MSL.


THnx for clearing that up to me lol;) sometimes i mix up early stages of the starleagues


If the higher ranked player wins each MSL ro16 series, Baby faces Flash in MSL ro8 as well, haha.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
April 20 2010 09:44 GMT
#382
I want to see Midas return to the PR plox. He's been great lately.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
April 20 2010 09:48 GMT
#383
On April 20 2010 18:44 Holgerius wrote:
I want to see Midas return to the PR plox. He's been great lately.

came here to post this
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 20 2010 09:49 GMT
#384
On April 20 2010 18:44 Holgerius wrote:
I want to see Midas return to the PR plox. He's been great lately.


midas rox but
don't ever write "plox" please, seriously
+ Show Spoiler +
really
+ Show Spoiler +
I mean it
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
fallingdream
Profile Joined December 2004
Romania452 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 11:05:30
April 20 2010 11:05 GMT
#385
Why does everyone in this thread give Baby even the slightest chance to win vs Flash? Srsly? It's like ppl forgot the game on Match Point played not too long ago. Ppl give way way too much credit to this guy, he beat a mediocre JD ( who even lost to ACE terrans :| twice ) and beat Stork once on GBR... huzzah?
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
April 20 2010 11:14 GMT
#386
this year, baby is 11-5 vT (losses to flash, mvp, skyhigh, leta, and notice in a 2-1 set; wins against really x3, light, darkelf, ruby, forgg, hwasin, and hiya)
flash is 9-4 vT (losses to midas, leta, skyhigh, really; wins against hwasin, mind, baby, light, fantasy, sea x2, firebathero x2)

now of course the edge is to flash but i think anybody who watched baby beat forgg or hwasin thinks he is playing quite solidly
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
April 20 2010 13:28 GMT
#387
On April 20 2010 20:14 o[twist] wrote:
this year, baby is 11-5 vT (losses to flash, mvp, skyhigh, leta, and notice in a 2-1 set; wins against really x3, light, darkelf, ruby, forgg, hwasin, and hiya)
flash is 9-4 vT (losses to midas, leta, skyhigh, really; wins against hwasin, mind, baby, light, fantasy, sea x2, firebathero x2)

now of course the edge is to flash but i think anybody who watched baby beat forgg or hwasin thinks he is playing quite solidly

He's really been bashing up Really!
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:36:03
April 20 2010 15:34 GMT
#388
On April 20 2010 20:14 o[twist] wrote:
this year, baby is 11-5 vT (losses to flash, mvp, skyhigh, leta, and notice in a 2-1 set; wins against really x3, light, darkelf, ruby, forgg, hwasin, and hiya)
flash is 9-4 vT (losses to midas, leta, skyhigh, really; wins against hwasin, mind, baby, light, fantasy, sea x2, firebathero x2)

now of course the edge is to flash but i think anybody who watched baby beat forgg or hwasin thinks he is playing quite solidly


Baby has been playing nice TvTs lately but that stat-comparison really does no justice..
Flash had a few losses lately TvT, his 22 winstreak TvT ended just before 2010 began.

Baby has a total of 48% TvT 14-15 total televised games while flash is somewhere about 73% winratio with over 100 games played.

It will be a HUGE upset if Baby beat flash in a BoX.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 15:39:14
April 20 2010 15:37 GMT
#389
On April 20 2010 08:44 Fenrax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2010 08:20 Mooncat wrote:
On April 20 2010 07:08 Fenrax wrote:
I would still give #2 to Jaedong:

- Main Reason: No one else steps up to deserve the place

- he is currently the MSL champ and also in KesPa and ELO top 2 since forever so #2 should be TAKEN from him
- also his stats are really not as bad as they feel. We probably feel that way because we compare him to Flash and old JD, but actually he is 5-3 this month and 9-5 last month, both clearly over 60%, which is by no means bad.
- no Zerg does overly well against Terran and in versus Protoss and vs. Zerg he is both 9-1 in his last 10!
- one thing that probably keeps down his total stats under 70% is that he just does not get paired against Protoss, which is clearly what Zergs like to play most. He is on a 19 game streak vs. Zerg and Terran only, chances for such a streak are extremely low. You may call it bad timing from coaches in PL and WL, but in individual Leagues it is just bad luck. Giving a player with a bad matchup #2 might feel uncomfortable, but there is really no one that comes and takes it.


Seriously, I wonder when people are going to stop bringing up a questionable 3 months old MSL title as justification for the monthly Power Rank.

Jaedong hasn't been performing well lately, that's a fact you gotta live with. His stats alone might not even be that bad, but have you watched his games recently? That's just not Jaedong anymore, and certainly not #2 worthy. As has been mentioned countless times, it's not the stats that count but the quality of the games that were played.

Furthermore, even taking his excellent BoX reputation into account, there are some players out there(other than Flash ofc) I'd see as a serious threat to JD in a BoX. That alone speaks volumes about his current form imho.


I didn't say the MSL title and the total dominance of JD/Flash from November to February should be the main reason to put him #2, I only say that a player has to deliver a better performance than a player who was on PR before if he wants to come out ahead.

Also, at the end of the day stats are more imporant than good play. A sneaked win is far more worth than a close loss.
And yes, I've seen his games. His ZvT needs a rework, but his ZvZ and his ZvP are still on top. There is just not much impressive that he can do when only paired vs. T and Z.
How shall he play brilliant in ZvZ? JvZ is over because the others catched up, but he is still 9-1 there, that's all he can do. That's just not the matchup to shine. Shining in ZvT is atm very hard. It is very probable that he could show some great games in ZvP, he just does not get that matchup.


That depends entirely on who he lost to or won against.

Jaedong's awesome game against Ruby is enough to say that he doesn't deserve #2 unless he does something to drastically improve that failure.

It's been often enough someone like Stork has a high ranking with like a 50% win ratio...because his losses were amazing games against some of the best players besides himself at the time. This propelled him above others with better records but a more mediocre lineup. It's not all about stats.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
April 20 2010 15:43 GMT
#390
BaBy gunna beat Flash, 2-1 MVP and then beat Flash again. calling it. You saw it here first.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 20 2010 15:49 GMT
#391
On April 21 2010 00:43 Shotcoder wrote:
BaBy gunna beat Flash, 2-1 MVP and then beat Flash again. calling it. You saw it here first.


Haha if we didn't already know the result this would be SOOOO random.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
fallingdream
Profile Joined December 2004
Romania452 Posts
April 20 2010 17:42 GMT
#392
On April 21 2010 00:43 Shotcoder wrote:
BaBy gunna beat Flash, 2-1 MVP and then beat Flash again. calling it. You saw it here first.


Is the planet you live on nice? )
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
April 20 2010 17:49 GMT
#393
On April 21 2010 00:34 StylishVODs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2010 20:14 o[twist] wrote:
this year, baby is 11-5 vT (losses to flash, mvp, skyhigh, leta, and notice in a 2-1 set; wins against really x3, light, darkelf, ruby, forgg, hwasin, and hiya)
flash is 9-4 vT (losses to midas, leta, skyhigh, really; wins against hwasin, mind, baby, light, fantasy, sea x2, firebathero x2)

now of course the edge is to flash but i think anybody who watched baby beat forgg or hwasin thinks he is playing quite solidly


Baby has been playing nice TvTs lately but that stat-comparison really does no justice..
Flash had a few losses lately TvT, his 22 winstreak TvT ended just before 2010 began.

Baby has a total of 48% TvT 14-15 total televised games while flash is somewhere about 73% winratio with over 100 games played.

It will be a HUGE upset if Baby beat flash in a BoX.


of course it would be an upset, but it shouldn't be surprising baby is being estimated highly atm
Mooncat
Profile Joined October 2007
Germany1228 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 19:38:38
April 20 2010 19:37 GMT
#394
On April 21 2010 02:49 o[twist] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 00:34 StylishVODs wrote:
On April 20 2010 20:14 o[twist] wrote:
this year, baby is 11-5 vT (losses to flash, mvp, skyhigh, leta, and notice in a 2-1 set; wins against really x3, light, darkelf, ruby, forgg, hwasin, and hiya)
flash is 9-4 vT (losses to midas, leta, skyhigh, really; wins against hwasin, mind, baby, light, fantasy, sea x2, firebathero x2)

now of course the edge is to flash but i think anybody who watched baby beat forgg or hwasin thinks he is playing quite solidly


Baby has been playing nice TvTs lately but that stat-comparison really does no justice..
Flash had a few losses lately TvT, his 22 winstreak TvT ended just before 2010 began.

Baby has a total of 48% TvT 14-15 total televised games while flash is somewhere about 73% winratio with over 100 games played.

It will be a HUGE upset if Baby beat flash in a BoX.


of course it would be an upset, but it shouldn't be surprising baby is being estimated highly atm


Baby is extremely overrated imho. Sure, the kid has talent and has shown some very solid play lately, but it's nowhere near the Wunderkind level many people seem to see in him. I won't be surprised if he fades away into mediocrity in the next few weeks.
"[Lee Young Ho] With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status."
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
April 20 2010 21:08 GMT
#395
On April 21 2010 04:37 Mooncat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2010 02:49 o[twist] wrote:
On April 21 2010 00:34 StylishVODs wrote:
On April 20 2010 20:14 o[twist] wrote:
this year, baby is 11-5 vT (losses to flash, mvp, skyhigh, leta, and notice in a 2-1 set; wins against really x3, light, darkelf, ruby, forgg, hwasin, and hiya)
flash is 9-4 vT (losses to midas, leta, skyhigh, really; wins against hwasin, mind, baby, light, fantasy, sea x2, firebathero x2)

now of course the edge is to flash but i think anybody who watched baby beat forgg or hwasin thinks he is playing quite solidly


Baby has been playing nice TvTs lately but that stat-comparison really does no justice..
Flash had a few losses lately TvT, his 22 winstreak TvT ended just before 2010 began.

Baby has a total of 48% TvT 14-15 total televised games while flash is somewhere about 73% winratio with over 100 games played.

It will be a HUGE upset if Baby beat flash in a BoX.


of course it would be an upset, but it shouldn't be surprising baby is being estimated highly atm


Baby is extremely overrated imho. Sure, the kid has talent and has shown some very solid play lately, but it's nowhere near the Wunderkind level many people seem to see in him. I won't be surprised if he fades away into mediocrity in the next few weeks.



Ok, lets look at BaBy since the beginning of this year.

Overall 23-12 with a 65.71% win percentage
TvZ 10-4
TvT 9-4
TvP 4-4

Now lets look at the losses
TvZ - Hero, oDin, Jaedong and Action
TvT - Flash, SkyHigh, Leta, MVP
TvP - Bisu x2, Jaehoon, Movie

Now lets look at the wins
TvZ - July, Jaedongx3, herox2, Modesty, Luxury, HyuNx2
TvT - Light, Reallyx3, Darkelf, Ruby, Hwasin, Hiya, Forgg
TvP - Stork, Movie, Anytime, Much

Looks pretty legit to me. His TvP is to be desired but his other MUs are pretty damn good. I would put him right below the S-Class players(Flash, Jaedong, Stork) but put him with top A-Class players right now(ZerO, Sea, free). He's accomplished a lot more than you are giving him credit for.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
April 21 2010 00:20 GMT
#396
i just don't know who besides flash would be favored in a bo5 against baby - maybe sea? maybe jaedong (but because of his historical strength in bo5, not because of his recent play)?
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
April 21 2010 00:43 GMT
#397
I think a good PvTer (Stork) would be favored, based on those stats.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
April 21 2010 01:31 GMT
#398
If Baby just learns how to deal with Arbiters properly he'll rape every Protoss out there.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 11:32:02
April 21 2010 11:26 GMT
#399
Look, baby has been playing well lately, but we know far to little about him to judge him.
He's 11-4 since he started to play good, not that awesome but still good...
How will he do in starleague BoX , what mental strength has he, will he keep this up, is this just a short period, we'll have to wait and see.

According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
April 21 2010 11:33 GMT
#400
On April 21 2010 20:26 StylishVODs wrote:
Look, baby has been playing well lately, but we know far to little about him to judge him.
He's 11-4 since he started to play good, not that awesome but still good...
How will he do in starleague BoX , what mental strength has he, will he keep this up, is this just a short period, we'll have to wait and see.


He kept up in GomTV undtil he met Skyhigh in the ro16
In the woods, there lurks..
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