Every so often a Liquibition becomes so epic that it transcends all Liquibitions gone before it. When such an event occurs, Liquibition evolves into the Broodsport - the ancient ritual founded centuries ago to determine the greatest fighter in all the land. Broodsport is a separate event from Liquibition and carries a lot more prestige and prize money than it as well. It draws together two of the best players in the world to do battle for our entertainment. Ultimately one fighter will emerge victorious, and will be adorned with appropriate praise and prize.
In Broodsport, there are seven matches played between the two competitors - each game carrying the same importance. All seven games are played and each game won is worth $25. So a player can win up to $175 if he manages to 7-0 his opponent. But Broodsport does not stop there; in addition to the money won in each game, the player who wins the majority of the games will be awarded an extra $100 while the runner up shall be awarded $25 for his efforts. That means if one player manages to 7-0 his opponent they will win a grand total of $275 - that's almost as much as an entire season of Clan League in a simple seven game series. Broodsport does not mess around with prize money; it is the real deal.
The first two combatants in Broodsport are none other than IdrA from CJ Entus and the reigning Liquibition Champion - F91. With such skill gracing our screens this matchup is beyond worthy of becoming the first official Teamliquid Broodsport. F91 is a renowned Chinese Zerg gamer with a style that would make anyone tremble. Indeed, he has taken games off S-Class Progamers and can never be discounted in any series. IdrA on the other hand, is the only foreign progamer playing in Korea - and pride of the USA. With his dead solid mechanics and an extremely orthodox style he makes exceptions for no man; he simply destroys them.
The maps were decided between the players and the TeamLiquid Staff Hierarchy. Each player was able to select one map each, while the remainder were selected by the Staff after vicious debate. The resulting map list is as follows;
Tau Cross
This map was chosen by F91 for use in Broodsport.Tau Cross ushered in a new era of three player maps after Rush-Hour and has been a fan favorite ever since. Its popularity is reflected in the fact that KeSPA is reusing the map in the 2008-09 Shinhan Proleague. Tau Cross is typically seen as a Zerg favored map, but reflects statistical balance for TvZ in the proscene.
Tau Cross has a simple layout and wide open spaces for effective flanking. It also has a strong economic focus and thus favors macro based play - yet it is not restrictive in this sense. Tau Cross allows for virtually any play style to be utilized on this map ranging from SK Terran to 3 Factory Tank and 2 Hatch mutalisk, Guardians or even all out macro Zerg. The map is one of the few maps that allow such diversity within a matchup and should provide an excellent battleground for Broodsport
Sin Chupung-Ryeong
Sin Chupung-Ryeong was chosen by IdrA for use in Broodsport. Chupung is one of the latest generation of maps to emerge from the KeSPA laboratory and has been a highly successful map in both Proleague and OSL.The map has been described by Artosis as "a map which looks like a Terran player got mad at Peaks of Baekdu and bashed it into a form where he can actually win a game". Sin Chupung-Ryeong statistically favors Terran over Zerg.
The map features 3 very secure expansions which are wrapped around by high jungle to create very narrow chokes leading into the expansions. The map encourages a strong economic play style. At the same time, however, there are a number of backdoors and places for hidden proxies which allows for some very interesting builds to be created and indeed the exploitation of greedy play styles.
Andromeda
Andromeda was one of the staple maps for the 2008 season and has endured through over 200 games already. Andromeda was a map picked by the TeamLiquid staff. Andromeda features a highly simplistic layout with islands at 12 and 6, and very easy to secure expansions. It also has a very wide open center which allows for easy flanking and great maneuverability.
Andromeda is unique as it encourages players to double expand very quickly as it has very easy to defend natural expansions. Because of this, Andromeda tends to create long games with both sides utilizing the full tech tree. Although the map statistically favors Terran over Zerg, many TvZ's end up as prolonged battles between incredible Marine/Medic macro and plague/ultralisk and as a result many of the best games from 2008 were on this map.
Raid-Assault 2
Raid-Assault 2 was another map brought back from past seasons to become a part of the Proleague map pool for 2008. Raid-Assault 2 was chosen by the Teamliquid staff. Raid-Assault has an unusual design which makes for quirky play. The mains are located in the middle of their respective halves of the map - or rather in the middle of the figure '8' apparent in the map's design. The map is considered balanced for TvZ.
Raid-Assault, unlike the other maps thus far, favors less macro-oriented play which results in tense micro games. Because of the short aerial distance between the mains, Wraith vs Mutalisk wars are not uncommon and indeed one such battle resulted in epic ensnares winning the game for Zerg. The quirky design of this map should make for a vastly different style of game compared to the other maps and thus will make an excellent game four in the series.
Colosseum II
Colosseum II is one of the three Courage maps at the moment and was chosen by the TeamLiquid staff. Colosseum II offers a unique terrain, probably inspired by the ancient Plains to Hill map. Moving beyond the unique natural formation leads us to a relatively standard central design which allows for mass unit battles to take place with ease - and allows for players to flank with ease.
Colosseum II does have a T>Z bias but with F91's unpredictable play style anything can happen on this map. The natural layout is prime for Zerg cheese - from sunken rushes to fast mutalisks. On top of that, Terrans tend to mech on Colosseum so they are typically even more vulnerable to early game shenanigans. This map is one of the staple maps of the current progaming scene, and Broodsport would not be complete without it.
Destination
Destiantion is one of the three Courage maps at the moment and was chosen by the TeamLiquid staff. Destination is currently the most popular map in existence right now and is being played everywhere. Despite the fact it's been around for one season less than the likes of Andromeda, it has already accumulated over 220 games played on this map. It truly is the defining map of this generation.
Despite the heavy Terran bias, Destination tends to produce fairly entertaining TvZ's. There are many options open to Terran, but all strategies usually converge to some variation of mech. Zerg, on the other hand, have a careful balancing act to play in not over expanding and producing the correct unit ratio to effectively counter the Terran forces. Because this map has been played so much, expect to see the highest quality of game on this map.
Medusa
Medusa is one of the three Courage maps at the moment and was chosen by the TeamLiquid staff. Medusa is one of the rare few maps which is a beautiful marriage between ingenuity and playability. The design of the Medusa main is the main feature of this map, more specifically the back entrance blocked by 10 stacked Temples. There are two mineral blocks outside which allow workers to "jump" into the back entrance and scout around.
Ever since fantasy popularized his build, Mech has been the optimal weapon for Terrans against Zerg and yet the statistics yield a Zerg bias in the matchup. The wide open space in the middle of the map works well for any macro Zerg as it allows a lot of room for flanking, and the Temples allow for great strategic play. This will be an excellent map to end the series on.
So get fired up, this matchup promises to be one of the most epic series ever streamed by TeamLiquid. And indeed we are streaming this event on the 21st at 17:00 CET. Now that is 11:00am EST, 8:00am PST, 1:00am KST (Sunday) and 12:00am (Sunday) Chinese time. Your hosts for this event will be none other than the mighty Chill and Plexa. We will guide you through this matchup and hopefully you will come out better informed than when you went in.
On February 16 2009 15:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: WTF is with all the Terran favored maps...1 Zerg Bias, 3 Terran bias, 2 Terran extreme bias, and 1 even? D:
But yeah, despite the Terran bias, I support this map pool (Raid Assault! FTW!) with the exception of Destination. Too much crap happens on that map T_T
On February 16 2009 16:03 NathanSC wrote: Um, grand total of $300.
$25 * 7 = $175 $175 + $100 first place + $25 consolation = $300
srsly
yes $300 in total, $275 possible for one player to win
On February 16 2009 15:53 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: WTF is with all the Terran favored maps...1 Zerg Bias, 3 Terran bias, 2 Terran extreme bias, and 1 even? D:
On February 16 2009 16:03 ret wrote: 2 zerg bias, 2 terran bias, and the current courage maps (the maps they both play the most)
way better than random maps F91 hardly ever plays
Like ret said, we could have chosen the statistically most balanced maps but they wouldn't have practiced them in ages. The courage maps will produce the best games even though they are slightly terran favoring; don't blame us for that though, blame korea.
I'm not sure if IdrA was it who said that map statistics are not that useful anyways, because lots of games are played by S-Class pros etc. The majority of players doesn't even play in individual leagues and the proleague.
This is the most exciting showmatch since elky vs blackman ....
I think f91's mechanics have gotten sick, but greg has how many other pro gamers he can literally say "What is the best build on this map or that map vs this or that"
I voted idra 5/2, but wouldn't be at all shocked to see it reversed.
The question really is what type of mech will greg prepare and what type of aggression will f91 prepare ... those are unaccountable variables imo.
So, one map that Idra chose, so you'll know he'll be good on, plus three maps from courage that he probably plays exclusively in practice that you know he'll be good on? Which means at least Idra gets 4 wins ez mode?
Looking good for the Tiger Eyes terran huh?
Edit: this has nothing to do with balance, but how experienced greg will be on these maps.
On February 16 2009 19:48 number1gog wrote: So, one map that Idra chose, so you'll know he'll be good on, plus three maps from courage that he probably plays exclusively in practice that you know he'll be good on? Which means at least Idra gets 4 wins ez mode?
Looking good for the Tiger Eyes terran huh?
Edit: this has nothing to do with balance, but how experienced greg will be on these maps.
Because you think that F91 trains on LT, Hunters and Dire Strait ?
On February 16 2009 19:48 number1gog wrote: So, one map that Idra chose, so you'll know he'll be good on, plus three maps from courage that he probably plays exclusively in practice that you know he'll be good on? Which means at least Idra gets 4 wins ez mode?
Looking good for the Tiger Eyes terran huh?
Edit: this has nothing to do with balance, but how experienced greg will be on these maps.
The three courage maps are the most played maps in existence right now - both players will know these maps inside and out
For the sake of entertainment I hope they're great games, but at the same time I kind of hope Idra will 7-0, and commandingly earn everyone's lost Nonylove as the foreigner's last hope.
wtf maps heavily favour t over z for sure...still Idra sucks so badly at bw, that i believe everthing besides 7-0 in favour of F91 would be an upset..just my opinion! gogo F91 crush this nerdy nerd
2008 was marked by the lack of TvZ, now with the new Zerg Powerhouses and the Winners League Playstyle we had lods of them in the past weeks .. but 7 epic TvZ (best matchup for spectators!) in a row will just be incredible! Gonna gather everyone and buy some popcorn (-:
[quote] The map has been described by Artosis as "a map which looks like a Terran player got mad at Peaks of Baekdu and bashed it into a form where he can actually win a game."[/quote
LOOOOOOOOOL Looks great guys! will watch for sure. IdrA 5-2.
On February 17 2009 00:12 done wrote: wtf maps heavily favour t over z for sure...still Idra sucks so badly at bw, that i believe everthing besides 7-0 in favour of F91 would be an upset..just my opinion! gogo F91 crush this nerdy nerd
Every player at the top of the scene (our scene the non korean) puts idra as a top player. I think most of the zergs admit to getting crushed by him or him being good ....
On February 17 2009 05:12 AttackZerg wrote: I think most of the zergs admit to getting crushed by him or him being good ....
F91 is also a top player though, and damn, he plays good Starcraft.
I just don't think Idra can stand up to the best Zerg in China, and arguably the best Starcraft player in China.
I for sure think he can. Idra just plays such a consistent style that it'll be hard for any aggressive "non-standard," if you will, Zerg player to beat him. I think F91's risky play style is going to hurt him tremendously.
On February 17 2009 06:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On February 17 2009 05:12 AttackZerg wrote: I think most of the zergs admit to getting crushed by him or him being good ....
F91 is also a top player though, and damn, he plays good Starcraft.
I just don't think Idra can stand up to the best Zerg in China, and arguably the best Starcraft player in China.
I for sure think he can. Idra just plays such a consistent style that it'll be hard for any aggressive "non-standard," if you will, Zerg player to beat him. I think F91's risky play style is going to hurt him tremendously.
I'm not so sure about that. Maybe IdrA has gotten a lot better since I last saw him, but it seems in most of the games I watch where he loses, he suffers some serious damage from a "stupid" cheese that hurts him so bad he can't win. The last time this happened was in Spirit, when Fenix did a quick DT drop and eventually went on to beat him.
Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
On February 17 2009 06:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On February 17 2009 05:12 AttackZerg wrote: I think most of the zergs admit to getting crushed by him or him being good ....
F91 is also a top player though, and damn, he plays good Starcraft.
I just don't think Idra can stand up to the best Zerg in China, and arguably the best Starcraft player in China.
I for sure think he can. Idra just plays such a consistent style that it'll be hard for any aggressive "non-standard," if you will, Zerg player to beat him. I think F91's risky play style is going to hurt him tremendously.
I'm not so sure about that. Maybe IdrA has gotten a lot better since I last saw him, but it seems in most of the games I watch where he loses, he suffers some serious damage from a "stupid" cheese that hurts him so bad he can't win. The last time this happened was in Spirit, when Fenix did a quick DT drop and eventually went on to beat him.
I agree, I think cheesey style play is IdrA's weakness, which makes F91 an especially fearsome opponent
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
I dont know about A team but he has taken games off other z pros. 2-0 Yellow in blizzcon and 1-2 vs some zerg on gom and the game he won it was really one sided. Yellow took a game off nada so im pretty sure yellow is still decent.
I dont think idra is weak against agressive allin builds. Look at his series vs yellow. Yellow went 2 hatch muta into guardian and 2 hatch speedling and idra defended both off well. And this was a few months so im pretty sure he improved a lot from then after practicing 8+ hours everyday.
The only problem Idra probably has is with his nerves on high stages but since this isnt on a stage or anything he should do fine.
I really dont understand why everyone downplays that he got his license without passing courage. You guys make it seem estro gave it to idra free of charge.
if Idra loses this how in gods name can he be considered progamer material? he said he's training 12 hours a day, first with estro and now with CJ for what has to be 3-4 months now (correct me if i'm wrong here), if he can't take a Bo7 against a foreigner (even though F91 probably is the best foreigner right now) then seriously wtf, so i think added preasure on him for sure, cause if i was CJ, and he lost this i'd get rid of him, Korean BW/international marketing or not.. my 2 cents anyway..
On February 18 2009 07:51 Myrkul wrote: if Idra loses this how in gods name can he be considered progamer material? he said he's training 12 hours a day, first with estro and now with CJ for what has to be 3-4 months now (correct me if i'm wrong here), if he can't take a Bo7 against a foreigner (even though F91 probably is the best foreigner right now) then seriously wtf, so i think added preasure on him for sure, cause if i was CJ, and he lost this i'd get rid of him, Korean BW/international marketing or not.. my 2 cents anyway..
Do you really think that CJ cares about a bo7 played between two relatively insignificant foreigners? B-team pros are the same level as top foreigners: we've already seen that in the Spirit Tournament.
Here's what I think: if you were the CJ coach, you would kick him off because you don't like him.
So because a few good non-koreans beat a few b-teamers, one of which (the castro game) was the guys first day in the korean house .... all of a sudden the entire community thinks there is an equality there? ..... bullshit. Bullshit.bulllyshittyy for real guys its bullshit. Comparing a few unprofessional gamers to an entire industry of b-teamers is stupid.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
On February 18 2009 07:51 Myrkul wrote: if Idra loses this how in gods name can he be considered progamer material? he said he's training 12 hours a day, first with estro and now with CJ for what has to be 3-4 months now (correct me if i'm wrong here), if he can't take a Bo7 against a foreigner (even though F91 probably is the best foreigner right now) then seriously wtf, so i think added preasure on him for sure, cause if i was CJ, and he lost this i'd get rid of him, Korean BW/international marketing or not.. my 2 cents anyway..
Do you really think that CJ cares about a bo7 played between two relatively insignificant foreigners? B-team pros are the same level as top foreigners: we've already seen that in the Spirit Tournament.
Here's what I think: if you were the CJ coach, you would kick him off because you don't like him.
it is true i'm not an Idra fan, but i dont think i'm being biased here. It has been known to happen that foreigners take games off pro's, but a Bo7? imho a guy who goes to Korea, stays there for a relatively long time(focuses all of his ability and attention on the game, has ppl who have been playing it for a living for years there to learn from, and other ppl coaching him proffesionally), and then loses to a guy in a Bo7 who probably wasnt playing 10+ hours a day everyday for the past 3-4 months, and certainly had inferior training and practice partners, then that guy (Idra) is not a guy who should be thinking about a career in starcraft (unless F91 proves to be another NaDa or smth). i'm saying all of this cause i think Idra's gonna lose, if i'm wrong about this then obviously this post is meaningles. anyway good luck to both and i hope we're in for an exciting series
The statistics are kind of fun. More ppl think Idra is going to win then lose the bo7, but MORE ppl think f91 is going to do an 7-0 then that Idra is going to do one. Seems like ppl only voted that to bash Idra. Mature for sure.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
Woo, I guess every top foreigner is pro-gamer level then. They can, and have, all beat B-team members.
Pro-gaming license means nothing. Each team can gift them to anyone. If KTF gave me a pro-gamer license (because coach loves me), am I pro-gamer level or do I just have a worthless license? Think a little.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
Woo, I guess every top foreigner is pro-gamer level then. They can, and have, all beat B-team members.
Pro-gaming license means nothing. Each team can gift them to anyone. If KTF gave me a pro-gamer license (because coach loves me), am I pro-gamer level or do I just have a worthless license? Think a little.
Pro-gaming license is not "worthless", a team can give out only 2 a year so wasting them is certainly not something they do regularly.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
Woo, I guess every top foreigner is pro-gamer level then. They can, and have, all beat B-team members.
Pro-gaming license means nothing. Each team can gift them to anyone. If KTF gave me a pro-gamer license (because coach loves me), am I pro-gamer level or do I just have a worthless license? Think a little.
Good luck convincing KTF to give you a license.
There are A-team progamers and B-team progamers.
We know that Idra is B-team progamer quality. He plays with B-team progamers all day, and, we can assume, holds his own.
I think you're too counterable. The more you play standard games against the same opponent, the easier it is for your opponent to find a comfort zone against you.
Then again, I don't really know what I'm talking about sense I haven't seen much of Idra's play recently. Looking forward to it.
Sidenote: A big lol at the pointless semantics bullshit arguments going on here about "what is progamer level". Both these guys are good. Really fucking good. Enough said.
Unless Idras playstyle has changed drasticly i think he's going to be exploited by f91 quite heavily, he needs to stop playing so passively and just waiting on opponents to make misstake. I don't believe that sort of strategy works at this high level, you need to take control of your game to win it, not always count on your opponent to make a misstake.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
Woo, I guess every top foreigner is pro-gamer level then. They can, and have, all beat B-team members.
Pro-gaming license means nothing. Each team can gift them to anyone. If KTF gave me a pro-gamer license (because coach loves me), am I pro-gamer level or do I just have a worthless license? Think a little.
Good luck convincing KTF to give you a license.
There are A-team progamers and B-team progamers.
We know that Idra is B-team progamer quality. He plays with B-team progamers all day, and, we can assume, holds his own.
He holds his own against estro's B-team we know, since he had to beat half of them during an in-house tournament to get his license. Once he got a license, CJ poached him because they thought he had potential from his games vs Stork and didn't have to worry about him getting a license. I really hope Idra has gotten better after 1 year of training. It would be awesome if he made A-team benchwarmer this year.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
Woo, I guess every top foreigner is pro-gamer level then. They can, and have, all beat B-team members.
Pro-gaming license means nothing. Each team can gift them to anyone. If KTF gave me a pro-gamer license (because coach loves me), am I pro-gamer level or do I just have a worthless license? Think a little.
Good luck convincing KTF to give you a license.
There are A-team progamers and B-team progamers.
We know that Idra is B-team progamer quality. He plays with B-team progamers all day, and, we can assume, holds his own.
He holds his own against estro's B-team we know, since he had to beat half of them during an in-house tournament to get his license. Once he got a license, CJ poached him because they thought he had potential from his games vs Stork and didn't have to worry about him getting a license. I really hope Idra has gotten better after 1 year of training. It would be awesome if he made A-team benchwarmer this year.
I would love to somehow see him as a TvZ sniper this year.
On February 17 2009 09:32 Scooge wrote: Where are you people getting this "pro-gamer level TvZ" from? Has there been decent games of Idra released lately or is this just based on that one comment by Artosis? Everything besides Artosis's comment points to Idra being less than pro-gamer level at TvZ (to put it nicely), and Artosis might be a little bias considering he's Idra's friend and clanmate and his website has a stake in seeing Idra do well in Korea.
He's a progamer, hence his TvZ is progamer level. That's like trying to defute the statement "Idra plays as well as Idra.". It just defines itself.
You're being evasive about the question. There's no reason to get technical about it. When people say pro-gamer level they mean he's able to compete with A team pro-gamers. That he's as good as the players on televised games. Being on a pro team doesn't make you have pro-gamer level skills. There are a lot of practice partners and B team members on every pro team. True Idra is a licensed pro-gamer, but that doesn't mean much, not even factoring in his license was gifted to him and not from passing Courage.
No? Progamer level means that he can take games off B-level progamers. Nobody mentioned a-class or anything like that, ever. Progamer-level means that he can take games off people with progamer licenses. Many progamers don't play televised games, but they still are progamers and, yes, progamer level.
Woo, I guess every top foreigner is pro-gamer level then. They can, and have, all beat B-team members.
Pro-gaming license means nothing. Each team can gift them to anyone. If KTF gave me a pro-gamer license (because coach loves me), am I pro-gamer level or do I just have a worthless license? Think a little.
Good luck convincing KTF to give you a license.
There are A-team progamers and B-team progamers.
We know that Idra is B-team progamer quality. He plays with B-team progamers all day, and, we can assume, holds his own.
He holds his own against estro's B-team we know, since he had to beat half of them during an in-house tournament to get his license. Once he got a license, CJ poached him because they thought he had potential from his games vs Stork and didn't have to worry about him getting a license. I really hope Idra has gotten better after 1 year of training. It would be awesome if he made A-team benchwarmer this year.
I would love to somehow see him as a TvZ sniper this year.
Ah, now you've got me all excited to see how good his TvZ might be. Would be really awesome to see him try to snipe Jaedong or something during one of the next proleague rounds.
Zomg it's at the same time as ICCUP Clan league. sMi. will be going vs Fnatic though so I'll just get owned 0-2 real fast by some Chinese gosu and then come watch!
So are all the Liquibitions going to be called Broodsport now? Like, is F91 v Strelok going to be Broodsport #2? And do we have an estimated date for that yet? ^^
On February 22 2009 11:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: So are all the Liquibitions going to be called Broodsport now? Like, is F91 v Strelok going to be Broodsport #2? And do we have an estimated date for that yet? ^^
The F91 vs IdrA match was an exhibition match outside of the regular King of the Hill style Liquibition series, because IdrA couldn't commit to playing more than 1 series (in case he won, this needed to be established beforehand), so it was given special name (Liquibition Broodsport instead of Liquibition).
Like Plexa said the normal Liquibition series will continue with F91 vs Strelok.
We may use the Liquibition Broodsport again in the future for special 1 time matches that don't count towards regular Liquibition.