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United States20661 Posts
StarCraft II TeamLiquid Coverage
Part I: First Contact
+ Show Spoiler [Blizzard] +
first glimpse of the new Blizzard HQ! I was stretching my arm outside the driver car window [I was passenger] ...
As most know, on Tuesday, SoG and I had the honor of representing TeamLiquid at the Zerg release press conference. Situated at the new Blizzard HQ in Irvine, CA, the seven-plus hour event allowed us a glimpse into SCII’s development so far as well as its future path. Yet it was only a glimpse – it was an appetizer, a teaser, an experience that left me excited but still reaching for more.
+ Show Spoiler [Gate] +
a view of the front gate. we were both taking pictures at this point. he was still driving.
I flew in Tuesday morning after a short plane hop from SF. semioldguy picked me up at the airport, and we headed over to Blizzard. The first ones there, we sat around for awhile, looked at bits of random art, and waited for everyone else to arrive. We even posted on TL [after which the rest of staff told us to ‘get to work’]
+ Show Spoiler [Semioldguy] +
semioldguy working real hard. we were browsing TL on the comps behind him.
And get to work we did. Heading up to the second floor, where the machines awaited, you could feel the excitement of the two-dozen or so press there. Yet, I barely finished a 1v1 against semioldguy [PvZ. Reach’s race cleaned up the zerg infestation, despite having pink psi blades. More on that later] when we were presented with the opportunity to interview three men leading the whole StarCraft 2 project: Chris Sigaty, Lead producer; Dustin Browder, head designer; Samwise Didier, art director.
Thoughts on Chris
As the lead producer, he manages the whole thing. He organizes the various teams, from programming to video, from sound to balance, everything is run by him. The most salient points I garnered from conversing with him:- Everything – from minute details of gameplay to the direction the entire game is taking – is subject to change. Nothing is set in stone yet. So when things happen to the medic, or when the art is too bright, don’t proclaim the end of days and the coming of the apocalypse. Just state your opinion in a cogent manner, and Blizzard will (and does) listen.
- As for community feedback, currently the game is in alpha stage. That basically means it’s being played internally, with the occasional build release for the media. The next step is to get all 2000+ Blizzard employees playing, after which they’ll move it to beta. Sigaty looks forward to feedback from people when they are actually able to try the game out for themselves instead of simply hypothesizing about it.
- They do have two ex-progamers on the dev team. They’ll also look for more progamer feedback come beta. Progamers aren’t really available to hire in bulk, unfortunately.
- Press events such as this one, blizzcon, wwi – Sigaty is in charge of running those. Fires like these pop up; he has to deal with them. He also looks at all community feedback, so talk – they’ll listen.
Thoughts on Dustin
This man is the guy who announced it. The guy developing it, making the big decisions regarding units, balance, storyline, whatever. You’ve seen him, you know what he looks like, and what he does. When we met him in person, you get the feeling that he really does care about the game, and wants to make StarCraft II a success – not only financially, but as a game and an e-sport as well.
- Singleplayer events have been decided. Now it’s just ordering them, making sure the non-linear format works. It’s not completely done, but the ideas are all there. Also, this time around, they will include more ways to lose; it won’t just be countdown timers or losing a hero, but they want the AI behavior to actually endanger the player.
- The week at SC2 goes more or less like this: Monday/Tuesday are brainstorming days where they think about how they want to balance/change everything. Wednesday/Thursday are programming days. Friday is a playtesting day. Then they go back on Monday/Tuesday to repeat the process all over again. Every week comes a new build, every week the game changes. Nothing is set in stone.
- Since entertaining signature moves [Kim Sungje’s reavers, Park Jungseok’s storms, Lee YoonYeol’s mass irradiates] have been removed or de-powered, I asked him how he planned to replace them. While a BC with a plasma turret can decimate a similar amount of units as a reaver, anyone can use an upgraded BC while not everyone can make their shuttle shoot scarabs. This is still a concern of mine.
- There are many, many new mechanics being added to the game. The idea is that, in StarCraft 1, players discovered more and more tricks with rather basic mechanics; if they include more abilities, players will discover even more little bugs to play with. I’m undecided on this one – on one hand, more abilities such as the stalker’s blink may be cool and different, on the other, SC1 had a lot of tricks you could do with simple dragoons – see Reach vs TheRock, or Kingdom vs Rage. [Dancing feels.. different, now.]
- After the 2v2 tournament I talked to him about MBS. He understands that MBS makes macro too easy, but wants to include it in order to cater to the casual community. However, he realizes that he has to add something to make macro comparatively difficult –and if he isn’t able to, he is willing to cut out MBS. To paraphrase his words: “if it dies, it dies”.
Thoughts on Sam
This guy draws much of the concept art you see. He also makes the call on artistic decisions in SC2. He’s a fun guy, a great artist, and all-around devoted to making SC2 not only look good, but look playable.
- The saturation and the grit and all that – most of it is just lighting issues. SC2’s lighting engine is rather different from its previous games, so things differ from their concept art and whatnot. Also, in-game it looks far different than in screenshots. Personally, I like the look of most things.
- Team colors are a big issue for Protoss. Against semioldguy I had Zealots with pinkish psi-blades and big pink cotton ball Archons. Not only did I initially confuse it with a Dark Archon and spaz a bit [what the hell is a DA going to do against his mutalisks?!] but it just looked out of place. IMO Protoss is bronze/blue; taking out the blue really emasculates them. I thought about telling Sam to just call Reach and ask what he thinks.
- As for the hydralisk/lurker look, and why the lurker doesn’t seem like it evolved from the hydra, Sam is pursuing a ‘unique silhouette’ with regards to units. He wants each unit to have its own profile this time, since they have the polygon count to do so. In SC1, he says, the hydra/lurker/ling all had similar head structure – in SC2, he doesn’t want to have that limitation. He did say he would explore slimming down the lurker head.
- Weather effects, day/night, bright shiny WC3-like lighting – those things Sam thinks are pretty, but if they detract from gameplay and visibility, he won’t include them. He is considering them for single-player, but if the community decides against it, it’ll be limited/not there at all. For example: ashworld used to have periodic spurts of flame from the lava, a la The Princess Bride. Then during a test game, a fireball zoomed across the player’s main base, and he thought he was under attack from some crazy flame being. Result: random fireballs cut. I wouldn’t worry too much about WC3-ish weather effects.
- On the forums, Sam completely ignores random flamers. It seems like common sense, but there are still people who insist on saying U SUx pLZ BURN1!!1!!1!1233!@onEELeVnty!!@1!1. If it’s constructive, he’ll listen – as with regards to Terran saturation, zealots’ profile, things like that – but don’t just bash stuff; it serves nobody any good.
- Three Random Tidbits: Yes, the Viking is inspired by Transformers. No, the Colossus is not taken from CnC3 – it has four legs, not three. The original Thor was going to be a massive tank, but they changed it into the walker it is now - the old tank model for the Thor is the new siege tank.
After finishing our chat with these personages, your correspondent returned to the battlefield to test his mettle against his partner, and other sites. More on that later - stay tuned!
Love and luck,
LR
Preview of what's coming up:
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Having a massive tank would be really awkward visually. I'm glad they changed it to a massive SCV. No, seriously.
Perhaps special effects like rain or lava could be toggled on and off?
I think pink archons are cool! A bit... trippy, but it would make it easier to see, instead of the darting pixels of color we have now.
Thanks!
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Love the report, keep them coming!
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Archons gotta be white/blue, let the teamcolor stay with the electrons, or maybe the eyes, something furtive. Great job LR, bring home plenty of HD movies :3
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Amazing Info. This is great, Sc2 will be the game we all hope it to be!
Really good news about MBS, and its a great insight into what goes on over there.
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United States20661 Posts
On March 13 2008 14:08 Meh wrote:
Archons gotta be white/blue, let the teamcolor stay with the electrons, or maybe the eyes, something furtive. Great job LR, bring home plenty of HD movies :3
LR brought home HD movies
LR has no stage 6 to upload said HD movies, though.
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Couldn't LR upload them to any given filehosting server? Meh is foaming at the mouth.
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can't wait to hear about your stomping adventures!
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United States20661 Posts
I think semioldguy is uploading them, actually.
He also has better pictures than I do :o
I was in charge of facesmashing people while he was in charge of taking photos. Yeah.
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Wtf is MBS ?!? Everybody talks 'bout that but i've no fukin' clue what is this... I'm way too lazy to find this word in the search thing... >_<
Edit : OKaaaay. Multiple Building Selection... God why do you have to shorten this words so fast... It'll surely confuse more than 1 ppl that is me ><
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Is SoG gonna post some of his take on it? Doesnt have to reiterate the stuff youve said, but it would be nice to read what he thought about it too 
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United States20661 Posts
SoG seems to have a crappy internet connection. I haven't seen him online since.. the day before the event, actually.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I cant wait to here about the blood shed in this room hahaha
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Melbourne5338 Posts
I searched for YellOw and didn' find a mention. I'm concerned.
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United States20661 Posts
In my first game against someone other than SoG, I played Zerg and slaughtered three people with mutaling. RAWRRRR.
edit: I chose to be yellow color
In another game I thought about giving myself handicap [50% unit health] vs someone else but I am not that mean
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Personally I find it hilarious that the zealots had purple psi-blades ala Mace Windu in that one screenshot. It'd probably be a little distracting in a real game though. 
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United States20661 Posts
On March 13 2008 15:06 zer0das wrote:Personally I find it hilarious that the zealots had purple psi-blades ala Mace Windu in that one screenshot. It'd probably be a little distracting in a real game though.
Well Browder's the one mainly pushing for team-colored Protoss. His rationale is that he wants PvP games to not be confusing.
Didier wants to keep it similar to SC1. I tossed in favor of keeping it SC1; currently PvPs aren't that confusing.
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Jesus christ good job guys... I'm really really really really looking forward to hearing more.......!!
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CA10828 Posts
On March 13 2008 15:08 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 15:06 zer0das wrote:Personally I find it hilarious that the zealots had purple psi-blades ala Mace Windu in that one screenshot. It'd probably be a little distracting in a real game though. Well Browder's the one mainly pushing for team-colored Protoss. His rationale is that he wants PvP games to not be confusing. Didier wants to keep it similar to SC1. I tossed in favor of keeping it SC1; currently PvPs aren't that confusing.
do you know if in the game lobby we will be able to choose our own color? that would prevent confusing colors like teal vs green and white vs yellow
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Its only confusing if youre obsing or watching a VOD and the quality isnt that great. But I like Browder's direction though. Maybe theyll just need to find other characteristics of units to put the team color.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
warcraft has it and he said he chose yellow so i think you can
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did you chat with any big site reps? ign? gamespot?
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United States20661 Posts
I also recommended for them to include shift-tab mechanism [which is currently missing]
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United States20661 Posts
On March 13 2008 15:21 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
did you chat with any big site reps? ign? gamespot?
No, I only really chatted with the GG.net and broodwar.de representatives.
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1. I think team-colored protoss should be the way to go (a la Browder)... I don't know about you, but I get completely confused in PvP games for SC1, especially on low-quality steam videos.
2. Choosing team color may turn out to be a GREAT idea, especially if certain pro-gamers start having "signature" colors, such as Reach's manly brown protoss or Yellow's yellow zerg or Boxer's cool blue Terran... Can add even more flair to certain players. Furthermore, to avoid confusion, players may have designated team colors such as MBC red, SKT teal, KTF blue, etc...
3. I want to congrat you guys LR and semioldguy on winning the SC2 2v2 tourney... You guys really bring pride and distinction to TeamLiquid, and show through skill the pure dedication and potential of a progaming site such as us. I daresay we are the best non-korean resource on the internet for starcraft development.
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The second I saw the picture of the LAN room I went through sort of a crystalizing moment, where all worries were swept away from under my feet.
That must be the happiest room in the world.
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They do have two ex-progamers on the dev team. They’ll also look for more progamer feedback come beta. Progamers aren’t really available to hire in bulk, unfortunately.
I have no more complaints/concerns
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On March 13 2008 15:32 fusionsdf wrote:
They do have two ex-progamers on the dev team. They’ll also look for more progamer feedback come beta. Progamers aren’t really available to hire in bulk, unfortunately.
I have no more complaints/concerns
Well, progamers from what though? Korea?
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United States20661 Posts
On March 13 2008 15:34 Gokey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 15:32 fusionsdf wrote:
They do have two ex-progamers on the dev team. They’ll also look for more progamer feedback come beta. Progamers aren’t really available to hire in bulk, unfortunately.
I have no more complaints/concerns Well, progamers from what though? Korea?
One is a Korean. The other one I don't know; they only hired him recently and they didn't say. They did emphasize that the first one is a "Korean national", as they put it.
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IT'S TESTIE
that would explain his MIA from dota which he's blaming on him having a broken comp, but we all know the only reason for his dota absence would be for sc
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really, they need as many progamers or semi-progamers as they can get, to break and abuse the game to its limit before release.... only when the game is >95% stabilized can it become a viable bona fide professional game...
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United States7488 Posts
On March 13 2008 15:08 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 15:06 zer0das wrote:Personally I find it hilarious that the zealots had purple psi-blades ala Mace Windu in that one screenshot. It'd probably be a little distracting in a real game though. Well Browder's the one mainly pushing for team-colored Protoss. His rationale is that he wants PvP games to not be confusing. Didier wants to keep it similar to SC1. I tossed in favor of keeping it SC1; currently PvPs aren't that confusing.
At first I didn't really like the way the team colors were for Protoss either (with archons and pylons being colors like green orange and pink), but after several games it has grown on me. I think it's just whether people identify more with the gold/yellow coloring of Protoss in SC1 or whether they are more attached to the crystals and energy having always been blue before.
Also... LR is going to have to upload videos and such, and I think he is in the process of doing so now, because the disc I got doesn't seem to have anything on it 
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United States7488 Posts
On March 13 2008 16:00 ATeddyBear wrote:
IT'S TESTIE
that would explain his MIA from dota which he's blaming on him having a broken comp, but we all know the only reason for his dota absence would be for sc
It isn't Testie
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On March 13 2008 16:06 semioldguy wrote:Also... LR is going to have to upload videos and such, and I think he is in the process of doing so now, because the disc I got doesn't seem to have anything on it
Press kit disc? Or something you guys saved?
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United States20661 Posts
Kit disc. We weren't allowed to record things ourselves.
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On March 13 2008 16:01 Gokey wrote:
really, they need as many progamers or semi-progamers as they can get, to break and abuse the game to its limit before release.... only when the game is >95% stabilized can it become a viable bona fide professional game...
Not necessarily - it took SC1 a few patches and some years to perfect it, and even then, people were finding ways to break and abuse aspects of the game.
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Netherlands13554 Posts
Hmm! Are you talking about Pillars?
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I want that game so bad-,-
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United States20661 Posts
On March 13 2008 16:40 Twisted wrote:
Hmm! Are you talking about Pillars?
I think Pillars had to leave for 'personal issues'.
I'm not 100% on that. Browder just said that their previous 'pro' quit.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Yeah i heard pillars went to do his MBA
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wow many interesting information. nice read!
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semioldguy:
did you order a glass of milk on saturday night? lol. :T
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and demanded it be sent to you at the end of the meal?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Well,
Jy retired... JJu retired... Sync, aqua and chojja all retired...
Undercover recruiting gogogo?
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he realizes that he has to add something to make macro comparatively difficult –and if he isn’t able to, he is willing to cut out MBS
Faith has been restored.
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United States7488 Posts
On March 13 2008 16:51 quinnyfizzle wrote:
semioldguy:
did you order a glass of milk on saturday night? lol. :T
um... no, why do you ask?
I had a Beer before any food came out and then about half a dozen Tom Collins'
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Probably a ratahded question. But what % complete is it in your estimate?
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..ok so how do i get in?
thanks in advance
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On March 13 2008 13:49 Last Romantic wrote:
[*]Since entertaining signature moves [Kim Sungje’s reavers, Park Jungseok’s storms, Lee YoonYeol’s mass irradiates] have been removed or de-powered, I asked him how he planned to replace them. While a BC with a plasma turret can decimate a similar amount of units as a reaver, anyone can use an upgraded BC while not everyone can make their shuttle shoot scarabs. This is still a concern of mine.
[*]There are many, many new mechanics being added to the game. The idea is that, in StarCraft 1, players discovered more and more tricks with rather basic mechanics; if they include more abilities, players will discover even more little bugs to play with. I’m undecided on this one – on one hand, more abilities such as the stalker’s blink may be cool and different, on the other, SC1 had a lot of tricks you could do with simple dragoons – see Reach vs TheRock, or Kingdom vs Rage. [Dancing feels.. different, now.]
I agree. There's something magical about watching a reaver with 34 worker kills fly away unscathed in a shuttle. I will miss that feeling dearly.
I don't believe the new mechanics of StarCraft 2 will give us the same array of outrageous tricks that the original did. StarCraft 1 opened up tricks that were incredible because they relied on mechanics that were so basic. You never could have imagined you'd be able to pull off something like that with that mechanic.
Some of the abilities I see in StarCraft 2 are a little too straight-forward for me.
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omg I hate you, you tease!
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I would think about MBS. Sur eit makes macro easier, but what you save there might, e.g., go into micro, or craftier tactics.
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
Wonderful job reporting you guys.
Envy and Admiration!
Thanks for repping us
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United States7488 Posts
On March 13 2008 18:02 Metaspace wrote:
I would think about MBS. Sur eit makes macro easier, but what you save there might, e.g., go into micro, or craftier tactics.
I really don't want to start an MBS debate here, but what Blizzard wants to do is have an even balance between the micro and macro so that either play style can be effective. they don't want a game that can be dominated by just Micro or Macro but one where both have their places to shine.
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Thanks a lot !!!!
Is the minimap like in SC1 ? (everything black until you discover it once)
Or is it like in WC3 ? (you can see all the map, the minerals, ... right at the beginning of the game)
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Jealous much!?
I think I am.
Great report, can't wait for SoG' thought's, pics and movies.
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David Kim replaced Pillars. He's Korean. I posted his real (korean) name here once and an article he wrote about balancing and the role of top players in this.
I think he was an amateur in a clan with a few people who later became progamers.
Testie would be one of the people on the top of my list if I were Blizzard. He plays random, which is a huge plus.
Someone said Pillars left to play poker professionally. Damn you poker!
Ooh, and with a 3d engine it's really easy to switch between team colour psi and blue psi as an user setting.
But can't they fix team colours by avoiding the same race having very similar colours? I am not that against team coloured psi. But it may be not that nice. And white vs yellow protoss is definitely an issue that SC2 needs to be fixed. But it can be fixed without coloured psi if they have to, it seems to me.
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shit looks like blizz is actually going the right direction here and doing a good job. hope has been revived.
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SO much to know.... my mind is going crazy because i can only imagine what is being said...
TL should ask blizzard if we get the chance to try SC2. XD XD XD
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we'll see how this goes in the future! how long til beta?
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On March 13 2008 18:41 semioldguy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 18:02 Metaspace wrote:
I would think about MBS. Sur eit makes macro easier, but what you save there might, e.g., go into micro, or craftier tactics. I really don't want to start an MBS debate here, but what Blizzard wants to do is have an even balance between the micro and macro so that either play style can be effective. they don't want a game that can be dominated by just Micro or Macro but one where both have their places to shine.
I think macro is more about, when/where to expand, what units to produce from how many factories and eventually where else to spend the money. The MBS is less related to macro IMHO. The MBS would just help to redirect the APM to other places, and I think it would be good. It's like having ctrl+1, 2..9 for units. Without controls, the player would just need much more APM to do the same things.
Now, making easier for player to deliver its decisions to the computer is a good thing, because it increases the entertainment. Also it helps discover the imba places in the game much faster.
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It's not good when you make it too easy by taking away the need for high APM and make the entire game completely micro-oriented. That's not good, because that's Warcraft. Starcraft is all about balance between the two (micro and macro).
Making the game easier to handle doesn't make it more entertaining.
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I like the subtle reference about Princess Bride...
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I hope SC2 won't become a FIASCO, like SC Ghost... estoy cruzando los dedos para que no sea asi... at for now it's looking good, but not an total exit!! pero eso es lo que yo pienso...!!
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God everything sounds so good!
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United States20661 Posts
On March 13 2008 22:55 arbiter_md wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 18:41 semioldguy wrote:On March 13 2008 18:02 Metaspace wrote:
I would think about MBS. Sur eit makes macro easier, but what you save there might, e.g., go into micro, or craftier tactics. I really don't want to start an MBS debate here, but what Blizzard wants to do is have an even balance between the micro and macro so that either play style can be effective. they don't want a game that can be dominated by just Micro or Macro but one where both have their places to shine. I think macro is more about, when/where to expand, what units to produce from how many factories and eventually where else to spend the money. The MBS is less related to macro IMHO. The MBS would just help to redirect the APM to other places, and I think it would be good. It's like having ctrl+1, 2..9 for units. Without controls, the player would just need much more APM to do the same things. Now, making easier for player to deliver its decisions to the computer is a good thing, because it increases the entertainment. Also it helps discover the imba places in the game much faster.
technically yes, macro is not just the mechanic part; however handspeed should still have to be insufficient to do both macro and micro except at the highest levels.
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Calgary25980 Posts
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On March 14 2008 00:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Technically yes, macro is not just the mechanic part; however handspeed should still have to be insufficient to do both macro and micro except at the highest levels.
It's not hard speed. It's mental speed.
A pianist or super typist doesn't play with 220 APM. And someone who does isn't also a great pianist or typist, etc.
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On March 13 2008 20:49 BlackStar wrote:
David Kim replaced Pillars. He's Korean. I posted his real (korean) name here once and an article he wrote about balancing and the role of top players in this.
I think he was an amateur in a clan with a few people who later became progamers.
I want to read the article! Link please?
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Good job need more damn it
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as long as the game is balanced as bw was then im perfectly fine. I hope that buildings can block. I hated how warcraft 3 the buildigns are circular so you cannot block only perform some type of crappy funnel. that was alot of strategy gone there i hope sc2 wont make the same mistake...
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United States20661 Posts
[url blocked] HQ Zerg Trailer.
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Sweden33719 Posts
“if it dies, it dies”.
Hahaha
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On March 14 2008 02:03 FrozenArbiter wrote:
“if it dies, it dies”.
Hahaha
I'm hoping to God it does.
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United States20661 Posts
On March 14 2008 01:37 BlackStar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2008 00:20 Last Romantic wrote:
Technically yes, macro is not just the mechanic part; however handspeed should still have to be insufficient to do both macro and micro except at the highest levels. It's not hard speed. It's mental speed. A pianist or super typist doesn't play with 220 APM. And someone who does isn't also a great pianist or typist, etc.
Well certainly mental speed is involved. But in SC1 you have to make the choice with your limited handspeed - am I going to macro more at the cost of weaker control? Or am I going to micro intensely but risk missing a depot or two?
In SC2 there's no such distinction. You can macro and micro near-flawlessly with relatively little effort - I found myself devoting 70% of my APM to micro, 5% to macro, and 25% to.. fiddling around and making patterns with my zealots.
Sure, you still have to make mental choices - expand, push, make more gates, how many workers, what am I going to use my larvae for - but when you've chosen, the execution is too easy. In that regard it's much like war3 - macro is really simple, and you have all the time in the world to micro.
Granted, the micro is faster-paced, as is the whole game - but multitask is less important.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
Nice write up!
A long time ago I remember playing the in-house alpha wow that was leaked and some guys that actually managed to run it in a server - it really looked like an "alpha" too with more than 90% of everything missing - not this though - this sc2 alpha is way ahead. If this is the SC2 alpha, can you imagine what the final product will be? Drooling. I kind of miss it when Blizzard wasn't that cautious but I understand why they are aiming for perfect. I mean the expectations out there are so great that it has to be real tough to work with. Amazing how much pressure one 10 year old game, our old Brood War, can still exert on it's future offspring!
Making it in the RTS world, and bringing new things to the table at the same time, has got to be the toughest game development challenge. It has to be a great feeling, albeit mixed, for the guys at Blizzard that the only ones out there to compete with them, are it's own creations.
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Last Romantic, I mean that APM is mental. It has not that much to do with having fast hands or not.
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Good job and nice read. I loved the insight.
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United States20661 Posts
On March 14 2008 03:31 BlackStar wrote:
Last Romantic, I mean that APM is mental. It has not that much to do with having fast hands or not.
Perhaps there isn't that much 'true' APM difference between sAviOr's 250 and NaDa's 400, but with SC2 as it is, there's not that much difference [on a pure mechanical macro standpoint] between me and iloveoov. I don't think that's right.
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On March 13 2008 15:08 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 15:06 zer0das wrote:Personally I find it hilarious that the zealots had purple psi-blades ala Mace Windu in that one screenshot. It'd probably be a little distracting in a real game though. Well Browder's the one mainly pushing for team-colored Protoss. His rationale is that he wants PvP games to not be confusing. Didier wants to keep it similar to SC1. I tossed in favor of keeping it SC1; currently PvPs aren't that confusing.
as long as they keep the majority of it blue and then have peripheral bits that can have team color, they can appeal to both sides: keep it blue, but stil have sufficiently visible differentiating color.
In SC1, there was hardly any difference between archons. like someone said if they made "electrons" that orbitted the archon, or maybe the archon body itself, or even a peripheral flame whos team color was sufficiently visible, but not overwhelming the blue, i think it would be fine.
personally, i would like to see different psi colors. they can just make sure the red stays red, and not pink. purple.. well u can't do much about that, but it's nice to hear they're at least considering psi colors now.
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On March 14 2008 03:38 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2008 03:31 BlackStar wrote:
Last Romantic, I mean that APM is mental. It has not that much to do with having fast hands or not. Perhaps there isn't that much 'true' APM difference between sAviOr's 250 and NaDa's 400, but with SC2 as it is, there's not that much difference [on a pure mechanical macro standpoint] between me and iloveoov. I don't think that's right.
I think there is some validity in saying that Bisu's PvZ style requires a LOT of apm to execute well and play against. I'd put 200 as a lower bound.
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i really admire you guys from TL working so hard to promote gaming. it really warms a gamers heart.
that being said.... i think they are going to use a lot from wc3...you start out with more drones, and you don't even have to split them from what i have seen. these are just examples from what we have to expect. BUT...i think we will find new ways to manipulate the mechanics. it might be, that we actually need that in order to focus on the new aspects of the game. but this is only right if they try to listen to the crowd. there will always be noobs. and there will always be noobs to play against for a noob...so they really don't have to make this an easy game to play. we need disingtion between player skill in order for it to be a game worth watching as entertainment. in wc3 you can't really see when a player has the upper hand easily...so it won't be as astonishing when the oponent turns it around..that's a consern of mine.
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United States7166 Posts
On March 13 2008 15:08 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 15:06 zer0das wrote:Personally I find it hilarious that the zealots had purple psi-blades ala Mace Windu in that one screenshot. It'd probably be a little distracting in a real game though. Well Browder's the one mainly pushing for team-colored Protoss. His rationale is that he wants PvP games to not be confusing. Didier wants to keep it similar to SC1. I tossed in favor of keeping it SC1; currently PvPs aren't that confusing.
I thought the new colors for protoss were kinda cool..and I also remember seeing some SC1games PvP games (didnt help that they were low quality video streams) that made it hard to tell what was what..when one P was offwhite and the other was white (or yellow?)
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thanks for reporting back agents.
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On March 14 2008 03:38 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2008 03:31 BlackStar wrote:
Last Romantic, I mean that APM is mental. It has not that much to do with having fast hands or not. Perhaps there isn't that much 'true' APM difference between sAviOr's 250 and NaDa's 400, but with SC2 as it is, there's not that much difference [on a pure mechanical macro standpoint] between me and iloveoov. I don't think that's right.
I think someone should stop replying to this thread and start finishing Part II of the update... 
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Very good read, cant wait for the next update
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United States7166 Posts
On March 14 2008 05:54 Gokey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2008 03:38 Last Romantic wrote:On March 14 2008 03:31 BlackStar wrote:
Last Romantic, I mean that APM is mental. It has not that much to do with having fast hands or not. Perhaps there isn't that much 'true' APM difference between sAviOr's 250 and NaDa's 400, but with SC2 as it is, there's not that much difference [on a pure mechanical macro standpoint] between me and iloveoov. I don't think that's right. I think someone should stop replying to this thread and start finishing Part II of the update...
I think you shouldn't be telling LR what to do. replying to our questions/comments/concerns is great.
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It's probably been discussed before, but how about optional MBS, which would satisfy everyone ? Simply being able to turn it off would create a greater,but necessary divide between noobs and real men.
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My heart is thumping, my thighs tightening, my fantasy unwinding. My excitement for this game is at an all time high, thanks LR and SoG!
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On March 14 2008 06:54 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
It's probably been discussed before, but how about optional MBS, which would satisfy everyone ? Simply being able to turn it off would create a greater,but necessary divide between noobs and real men.
Everyone would use MBS because it makes the game easier to play and everyone wants to win. Not using MBS would be like letting your opponent play with map hack.
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* However, he realizes that he has to add something to make macro comparatively difficult, and if he isnt able to, he is willing to cut out MBS. To paraphrase his words: if it dies, it dies.
Im so happy to read that
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why not custom colors,
WHAT IF I WANT PINK !?!?!
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On March 14 2008 07:31 MeriaDoKk wrote:Show nested quote + * However, he realizes that he has to add something to make macro comparatively difficult, and if he isnt able to, he is willing to cut out MBS. To paraphrase his words: if it dies, it dies.
Im so happy to read that
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On March 14 2008 07:41 Zuan19 wrote:
why not custom colors,
WHAT IF I WANT PINK !?!?!
Hah.
On March 13 2008 21:22 pyrogenetix wrote:
shit looks like blizz is actually going the right direction here and doing a good job. hope has been revived.
Totally seconded.
Thanks a lot for this awesome report, guys!
<3
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all employees get to test it out? lol crazeeeeee
even though i'll be half way done university by the time this thing gets out and will be super busy..
i still wanna try this out too
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 14 2008 08:11 fgsvsd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2008 07:41 Zuan19 wrote:
why not custom colors,
WHAT IF I WANT PINK !?!?! Hah. Show nested quote +On March 13 2008 21:22 pyrogenetix wrote:
shit looks like blizz is actually going the right direction here and doing a good job. hope has been revived. Totally seconded. Thanks a lot for this awesome report, guys! <3
They already have pink!
My progamer name will be "The Pink Menace".
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Reach will be The Cleanser of all that is Pink
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nice =) i should really visit one day..
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why is california so sunny
DAMN IT
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Nothing wrong with pink psi-blades & archons. Now girls will be fighting over that color.
Hopefully SC2 will have Night & day cycle like in WC3. It helps a bit visually with timing. There are easy ways in SC1 to determine the time of the game anyways.
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On March 14 2008 13:23 [X]Ken_D wrote:
Nothing wrong with pink psi-blades & archons. Now girls will be fighting over that color.
Hopefully SC2 will have Night & day cycle like in WC3. It helps a bit visually with timing. There are easy ways in SC1 to determine the time of the game anyways.
er, i don't like the idea of night/day cycle in sc2
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day and night cycle might just be ok...if it is implemented strategic advantages and disadvantages during the cycle. but the cycle can't be random! it has to play a key role in timing..or at least you should be warned about the changing of night and day, so that you can prepeare..
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Pink is actually the color that intimidates me the most. I just hate fighting a pink army cuz the pressure for winning is that much higher.
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United States20661 Posts
On March 15 2008 22:15 Famehunter wrote:
Pink is actually the color that intimidates me the most. I just hate fighting a pink army cuz the pressure for winning is that much higher.
One of the devs actually said that
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LastRomantic/PressConf/DSC05148.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa9/KTF_Romantic/DSC05149.jpg?t=1205385119)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LastRomantic/DSC05155.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LastRomantic/PressConf/DSC05164.JPG)
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