Article translation by the mighty (and still trophyless) Lord of Liquibet, joohyunee:
곰TV MSL 시즌2의 공식맵이 공개됐다. The official maps for GomTV MSL Season 2 has been announced.
이번 곰TV MSL 시즌2는 32강 개편과 함께 맵을 모두 교체했다. 프로리그 맵인 몬티홀, 파이썬과 자체 제작한 신규 맵인 전략형 맵 '로키'와 물량형 맵 '데스페라도'가 사용된다. 이번 공식맵은 물량형과 전략형으로 고르게 선정돼, 풍부한 물량을 바탕으로 한 경기와 화려한 컨트롤과 새로운 빌드 경기가 나올 것으로 예상된다. This GomTV MSL Season 2 has been reorganized to a 32-man tournament style and changed all of the maps. The Proleague maps Monty Hall, Python, and 2 new maps: the strategy based map 'Loki' and macro-based map 'Desperado' will be used as the maps for this MSL. We predict that these official maps balances the number of macro based maps and strategy based maps which will open up opportunities for new builds.
MSL에서 선보이는 신규맵은 아마추어 클랜팀들의 테스트를 시작으로 MBC게임 히어로와 온게임넷 스파키즈의 테스트를 거쳐 현재 11개 게임단 공통 테스트까지 마쳤다. 새로운 신규맵은 세 종족의 밸런스가 안정적이라는 평가를 받았다. After the amateur clan teams tested the new maps, 11 progaming teams have tested the maps, and they have said that "The balance is stable on these new maps". (WTF they look so unbalanced...)
가로형의 전략형 맵인 로키는 레이드 어썰트의 난전과 블리츠의 밸런스적 안정성을 고려해 제작됐다. 초반 안정적인 자원으로 출발하지만 중후반 복잡한 러시루트와 방어가 어려운 멀티 확보를 위해 벌이는 전투가 인상적이다. 안정적인 멀티로 출발한다는 점에서 프로토스에게도 나름대로 힘을 줬고 지상군과 공중군 게릴라와 힘싸움의 조화를 추구한다. The horizontally disigned Loki has been made by mixing Raid Assualt's disorganized warfare and Blitz's balance stability. At the beginning, the players will start with a stable source of resources but in the mid/lategame, the complex rush routes and the fight for hard-to-defend expansions have been memorable in the testing stages. Protosses have been given more strength because of the easy natural, and the map strongly pushes for a combination of ground/air guarella warfare and macro-based fights.
데스페라도는 루나, 롱기누스를 잇는 MBC게임 물량형 맵. 우선 본진 미네랄 10덩이와 2개의 가스가 이채롭다. 월등한 자원 채취율로 초반 빌드오더가 달라지며 다른 맵보다 더 폭발적인 물량을 선보일 것으로 전망된다. Desperado follows Luna and Longinus's steps by being a macro-based map. First, the 10 mineral chunks and 2 gases in the main are very new. The availability of resource in the main will push for new early game build orders and the map is expected to show even more explosive macro in the game.
곰TV MSL은 MBC게임에서 오는 26일 오후 6시 조지명식을 시작으로 오는 5월 3일부터 3개월간 매주 목요일과 토요일에 생방송한다. GomTV MSL starts with the group deciding ceremony on the 26th (6PM korean time) and will go for 3 months on Thursday and Saturday nights.
23.04.2007 20:42:42 NeoIllusions: You look at new maps? 23.04.2007 20:42:49 Carnac: new? 23.04.2007 20:42:57 NeoIllusions: Yar, for MSL. 23.04.2007 20:43:16 Carnac: not yet 23.04.2007 20:43:27 NeoIllusions: http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52338 23.04.2007 20:43:31 NeoIllusions: Let me know what you think. 23.04.2007 20:43:33 NeoIllusions: Curious. 23.04.2007 20:44:11 Carnac: i bet the 1st one is to replace peaks or wait, msl didnt even have peaks anymore last season 23.04.2007 20:44:25 Carnac: but it's kinda the style you would use for a replacement i guess 23.04.2007 20:44:49 Carnac: looks t heavy 23.04.2007 20:44:56 Carnac: you can expand in the back 23.04.2007 20:45:01 NeoIllusions: Everything looks f'ing T heavy nowadays. 23.04.2007 20:45:03 NeoIllusions: T__T 23.04.2007 20:45:04 Carnac: and t can siege it? 23.04.2007 20:45:07 Carnac: im no sure 23.04.2007 20:45:11 Carnac: about the distance 23.04.2007 20:45:32 Carnac: WTF IS THE SECOND MAP 23.04.2007 20:45:39 Carnac: you gotta be kidding me 23.04.2007 20:45:41 NeoIllusions: hahahahaha 23.04.2007 20:45:46 NeoIllusions: 10 patch 2 geyser 23.04.2007 20:45:49 NeoIllusions: ROFL SUP 23.04.2007 20:45:51 NeoIllusions: ...
[11:46] Carnac: it's ok [11:46] Carnac: i can finally [11:46] Carnac: 1 base triple tech pvz [11:46] Carnac: awesome [11:47] NeoIllusions: hahaha [11:47] NeoIllusions: ridiculous [11:47] NeoIllusions: and muta hydra will be the new thing for Z
Terribad~ 2v2 maps looks so much better yet 1v1 maps continue to take a turn for the worse. ;_;
TBh 2 geyser main can't really favour terran, what are they gonna do with all that gas early game? Usually they have their nat before they even need it. Its more a z thing.
Second one doesn't actually look to bad... Toss can aggressivly one-base far more easily versus zerg, which I think will be good for that mu.
Zerg could i guess hatch right below ramp (Or even above it) versus terran, go for 2 hatch lurker. Place third hatch at other main under cover from said fast lurks and fourth at nat. Voila 17 patch 4 gas zerg rolling for hive tech?. I dunnu, timing 2 fact push would probably be a problem, if t even bothers to FE on this map that is. (Wonder if they know how to do anything else? =P )
Don't know anything about pvt, but from what i have seen neither party usually rushes the second gas anyway right? Anyway looks p friendly, islands, early gas for potential early game harassment (DT/reaver drop lol?) Open middle sorta far between expos, t floating cc to 6/12 aclock could prove to lead to mega defensive/booring t play (what else is new?) but what do I know.
dt corsair lovely on second map. any gas buld lovely on that second one eww thats ugly. looks like a fastest i thought i was looking at BGH. anyways firsto ne looks fun but second is bleh.
Monty Hall (assuming it wil be used) It's not as bad as I first thought. The 3 nats in front of the mains make it difficult for P and T (especially T) to play normal. This is because each mineral only contains 1000 minerals, instead of the standard 1500. That's roughtly about 3500 minerals less. In other words, Protoss and Terran are forced to continue expoing. Something zerg's won't have problems with because that's what they do anyways no matter the map.
In other words, Terrans and Protosses have to play more like zergs, because if they don't their money will fall pretty quickly.
Python I like this map. The 2 of the mains are close to the other two, making it easy for zerg's to scout with lords. There are plenty of gas expos, so we don't have to worry about expoing too much like Longinus 2, and the middle is a wide open area, good for battling. The two "islands" are built so terran's can't just lift over their CC's, and zerg's only require a drop upgrade and no ovie speed to get it. All in all, I think it will be pretty good.
Loki Loki doesn't seem too bad either. Yes, there is an expansion behind the main, making it simple for terrans protoss to take it right away. But there is also a gas-nat, so Zergs will open with 3 hatch gas every game, which imo is a huge advantage. Abuse hive tech anyone?
Of course this goes the same for all. Terrans can't really take both expos right away against toss incase of early muta builds, and neither can Protoss. But once they get their techs up they will get 3 gas right away as well, making it simple for terrans to go 2 fact 2 port (mass tanks/vessels/mnm) and tripple tech for Protoss (every zerg's nightmare, corsairs, reavers, and templars).
TvP will be ineteresting because terran's won't have too much trouble going goli/tank, but protoss can also get carrires/templars. I dunno this mu will be interesting to watch.
Desparado WOAH. If Zerg's fe,then we get a normal 2 gas play. Meanwhile Protoss can double tech from 1 base, and Terrans can either play normal or abuse the gas and open with 2 port if they want to, and still get mnm... without having the need to expo (although they will eventually due to the need for minerals)
It will be interesting to see how terran's will play. I suspect heavy tech builds due to the gas... but then again, early muta from zerg may also be dangerous.
more gaz so early advantages toss alot in pvz. and tvp...hm... p usually needs lots of time to get competitive army vs vulture/tank while T can now just build early 3-4 facts and push the hell out of p. in a way its better, pro gamers will change their style alot and thats pleasant since im seeing same stuff since 2000. and TNX GOD i wont be seeing any P fe pvz on that map. its getting pretty boring.
On April 23 2007 12:41 semioldguy wrote: Anything is better than Desert Fox
totally agree, although I do kinda wish they heavily modded the map to give it a 2nd chance (like old peaks, which was quite bad -> new peaks: excellent)
On April 23 2007 12:47 Slayer91 wrote: TBh 2 geyser main can't really favour terran, what are they gonna do with all that gas early game? Usually they have their nat before they even need it. Its more a z thing.
You would know better than I would, but I'd thought it would affect Protoss the most. 10 temps with one base = much thx
Wow i love all these new and interesting maps coming. And the fact many teams say they are fairly balanced just makes me drop my jaw to the ground. Looks like we got a new and fun 2v2 map (Desperado) and Loki looks like a successor to Peaks, at first glance anyways.
These maps look nice. I like that we're getting more and more 'new' maps to be used for viewing pleasure, in the big leagues, and hopefully we can use these for our own 'ametuer' interests. The fact that they're tested by other pro-gamers before being decided on is a testiment to their intentions. They wouldn't put these maps into rotation if Z owned every matchup. With the 2nd map, like they said, they're trying to institute a 'new beginning'. Something that would change the way the most basic game starts. Why play every game the same way for the 1st 10 mins, well now because of that new map, there will be, i'm sure, tons of new openings to exploit not to mention late game.
Should make for interesting leagues with the pro-gamers at the helm. Gogo Reach!!!
Usually MSL and OSL each only have three maps, one of which is shared, making for two exclusive maps and two shared maps for each league. I was wondering if anyone knew which two of these four maps will also be in this season's OSL or if maybe they are doing away with the sharing.
If I had to guess, I'd say that the two proleague borrowed maps will also be used in both MSL and OSL.
I really like the first map. Looks very good, and should inspire some innovative gameplay. I like how the two ramps moves to one more easily defendable than the other, but tankable as well (for the inside one). I don't like the dual gas idea. Isn't it conjectured that Z > all on dual gas? There are definitely going to be more ballsy 1 base plays, though, which is a nice change.
Concern for loki: zerg's ability to take the inner nat for free? I mean, it's okay on nemesis, cause theres no easy 2nd expo, but zerg can power hard in early game on loki..
Also, i like desperado more than most people here, i think...
as a zerg, I don't think loki's triple gas will be THAT strong. Arcadia's triple expo was easier [even though two gas].
loki's frontyard multi needs like 5 sunken to block infantry, because of the multiple attack route. Even more open than rush hour. so it's not TOO easy to establish.
Plus, P and T can do that too - expand to frontyard first, then get back expo
these are actually really beautiful and exciting maps. They are variations but not stupid annoying ones like 815. None of us can really tell how the balance will work out, so we'll just have to see. I think they look gorgeous though, much nicer than most of the recent ones.
Oh my lord these are SO much better than the new Proleague maps. Jesus christ, I can't believe the difference. Loki incorporates the key stipulations of both Monty Hall and Nemesis, but the application (as well as presentation- those maps look like trash) is infinitely better. Also my initial impression of Desperado left me curious instead of disgusted. I think I see some Geometry in a couple expos as well as some mineral jumping. Damn this is so refreshing to see after the shitstorm that was the unveiling of Proleague maps -_-
Edit: Oh.. I didn't see the obscene amount of starting resources for Desperado. I don't know..
We can't have Terrans walking around with an answer key to a shit storm of a map like desert fox. Good ridence.
As far as the new maps go, they look nice enough. I'm never a fan of protected backyard expos, but that doesn't necessarily break a map, it's just a style preference. Personally, I'm really interested in how pros will play a 2 gas main. Overall this map pool looks fun and different, which is more than we can say about the maps used for survivor.
Loki gives the easy "behind natural" (if you will), but doesn't make it perfectly safe like Geometry. And to counter that, they make the regular natural less secure as well since there are two entrances to it. And the security of all the mineral-onlys and arbitrary expos can vary so much depending on what's going on in the game. I think Loki will be a very interesting map with lots of room for strategic evolution, and I am really psyched to see games on it.
I liked the proleague maps and I like these two too. Altho I like Loki a lot more than desperado, I don't think we will see that much imba. Loki looks hot to me.
On April 24 2007 05:49 dropthesky wrote: I've always felt like having split mins is slower, iunno if its true, just how i perceived it, prolly from the old LT xD
You need 20 workers to saturate 5+5 minerals pathes and more than 30 workers for 10 mins pathes.
Loki makes me cry. ugly as hell, has a mineral block at the nat (wtf it's easy enough to defend it as it is) and is extremely narrow. I can't wait to see gay terrans push out and camp up in the middle, take all the exps on his side and then procede to go mass tank/vessel and then piss all over the hapless protoss players. I hate macro maps, and Loki leaves you no other option than to macro. "now I can 1 base protoss vs zerg yay" my ass. it's gonna take you fucking 3 minutes to reach his base anyway. Bullshit map.
for Desperado, if the spots are 11 vs 7 or 1 vs 5 ... I'd like to do some slow overlord, lurker drops. =D
As for Loki... wow, they seriously do NOT want you to build in the lowered terrain. o_o;;
And I've been using split minerals for a while now in my maps... It's okay. Takes a second longer to kill workers (ie, storm, reaver, lurker). And all those workers moving around really get in the way of fat units (like tanks, etc.) when you're getting dropped and have to move quickly. If a vulture manages to get in early game... those workers can get attacked from all sides. Most of all, I split like a noob when the minerals aren't together ^^; (ie. 8 patches, 2 minerals per side)
On April 24 2007 02:03 CoL_Drake wrote: 10 patch 2 geyser THAT LOOK BALANCED TO YOU ?
rofl xD
Back up your argument. What would a terran do with 2 gas's, wraiths mnm tanks and vultures all need more mins then gas. Toss, they can double tech, but it better than them feing every game, and if they do its the same. Zerg Fe anyway. So all it does is make 1 base low eco play better. Would you prefer all race fe macro fests?
On April 24 2007 07:25 born-to-porn wrote: Loki makes me cry. ugly as hell, has a mineral block at the nat (wtf it's easy enough to defend it as it is) and is extremely narrow. I can't wait to see gay terrans push out and camp up in the middle, take all the exps on his side and then procede to go mass tank/vessel and then piss all over the hapless protoss players. I hate macro maps, and Loki leaves you no other option than to macro. "now I can 1 base protoss vs zerg yay" my ass. it's gonna take you fucking 3 minutes to reach his base anyway. Bullshit map.
On April 24 2007 07:54 Desolate.GreY wrote: for Loki, if the spots are 11 vs 7 or 1 vs 5 ... I'd like to do some slow overlord, lurker drops. =D
As for Desperado... wow, they seriously do NOT want you to build in the lowered terrain. o_o;;
And I've been using split minerals for a while now in my maps... It's okay. Takes a second longer to kill workers (ie, storm, reaver, lurker). And all those workers moving around really get in the way of fat units (like tanks, etc.) when you're getting dropped and have to move quickly. If a vulture manages to get in early game... those workers can get attacked from all sides. Most of all, I split like a noob when the minerals aren't together ^^; (ie. 8 patches, 2 minerals per side)
I don't get why people are bashing the 10 patch/2 gas mains in Desperado. Look at the natural ffs. 7 patch, no gas and harder to defend than nats on most other maps. Considering that most players FE on other maps anyway, I think this map will encourage more 1 base play and tech builds, rather than macrofests.
2nd map looks terrible. The 2 geysirs in main, the mineral layout, and everything seems too narrow, I guess it will be hell in ZvT and PvZ (so easy to contain).
And why do they continue that "more macro = good" trend? If it goes on like this in 2 years they can put BGH or FMP in. That's also cool macro style.
On April 24 2007 07:25 born-to-porn wrote: Loki makes me cry. ugly as hell, has a mineral block at the nat (wtf it's easy enough to defend it as it is) and is extremely narrow. I can't wait to see gay terrans push out and camp up in the middle, take all the exps on his side and then procede to go mass tank/vessel and then piss all over the hapless protoss players. I hate macro maps, and Loki leaves you no other option than to macro. "now I can 1 base protoss vs zerg yay" my ass. it's gonna take you fucking 3 minutes to reach his base anyway. Bullshit map.
On April 24 2007 07:54 Desolate.GreY wrote: for Loki, if the spots are 11 vs 7 or 1 vs 5 ... I'd like to do some slow overlord, lurker drops. =D
As for Desperado... wow, they seriously do NOT want you to build in the lowered terrain. o_o;;
And I've been using split minerals for a while now in my maps... It's okay. Takes a second longer to kill workers (ie, storm, reaver, lurker). And all those workers moving around really get in the way of fat units (like tanks, etc.) when you're getting dropped and have to move quickly. If a vulture manages to get in early game... those workers can get attacked from all sides. Most of all, I split like a noob when the minerals aren't together ^^; (ie. 8 patches, 2 minerals per side)
I've been waiting for a main with minerals split like that. Protoss and Terran will max income at their mains sooner on that map. Zergs usually have smaller worker count so that wouldn't help them so much, right? And with certain starting locations, seems like we could see some drop games pretty easily.
I don't think 2 Gas @ Main will change gameplay alot.. such things as muta/hydra are just dumb to play and its dumb to think about that progamers would use such strategies. Zerg will expand like ever, its just like the race got 2 gas @ Main instead of 1 @ natural and 1 @ main T_T
On April 28 2007 00:57 Organ wrote: I think 2nd gas at main favours zvt, then pvz, pvt quite a little. So it cannot be good for terrans at all.
You do realize that with so many resources in main, terran doesnt even need to go FE just to have an economic edge of the Zerg right? Expanding for zerg to the natural is also not really worth it since there is no gas and it does not protect the ramp, either. So, to me, it seems that zerg has no real advantage in doing a 12hatch.
Also I don't think i see any minerals/blocker at the island expo (which is very odd, for today's maps), so the terran can also get another free expo...
EPT![[image loading]](http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8132/showimageasprealfileffnef8.jpg)
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