• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:37
CEST 13:37
KST 20:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)2Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week0Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Rain's Behind the Scenes Storytime Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 32722 users

[GSL] The Twilight of WoL PvZ

Forum Index > News
83 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

[GSL] The Twilight of WoL PvZ

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byMeko
March 2nd, 2013 11:30 GMT

PvZ

PvZ Spotlight



The Value of Preparation
Stephano vs. Flying


Messing with Timings
Curious vs. PartinG


Mutalisks Fly Again
Curious vs. PartinG, RorO vs. MC


Skytoss:
In WoL as it is in HotS

MC vs. Curious, Curious vs. PartinG


Code S on Liquipedia

The Twilight of WoL PvZ

by: monk

2012 brought us many predictable PvZs matches involving brood lords and infestors, with each game seeming more or less identical to the last. However, the final nerf to infestors ensured us more varied play near the end of Wings of Liberty. While it might have been a case of too little, too late, pro-gamers were forced to think more creatively than they had in months, and new layers were introduced to a match-up that had long since grown stale. As the final Wings of Liberty GSL draws to a close, let's take a look back at what PvZ looked like at the twilight of Wings.

[image loading]
Thankfully, we've been seeing a lot less of this.


Of Metagame Mind-games and Preparation
» (Z)EG.Stephano.RC vs. (P)Woongjin_Flying, Code A Ro32


On the face of it, Flying vs. Stephano looked to be an easy win for the French Zerg. With a long losing streak in Proleague, Flying looked like he was tampering off, destined to remain on Woongjin's B lineup. On the other hand, Stephano is widely regarded as world class in the ZvP match-up, consistently revolutionizing it with his builds and strategies. Through on paper Stephano looked to be the superior player, Flying showed how big an advantage careful preparation could be against a relatively predictable player like Stephano. In fact, Stephano had made several public statements on how the preparation focused GSL did not suit his style, perhaps foreseeing a loss like this long before anyone else.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

In order to explain how Flying engineered a brilliant strategic victory against Stephano, we first need briefly explain the history of trends in modern ZvP. Pioneered by players like DRG and Stephano himself, the standard ZvP build for most of 2012 was a three hatch opening with a roach warren and evolution chamber plopped down around 7:00. At this timing, Zerg players can easily defend gateway pressures with the roaches and stargate plays with spore crawlers and queens. In addition, Zerg can choose to later pump out upgraded roaches and go for the kill against Protoss players as they take their third base. However, as Protoss players started abandoning attempts at very early pressure against Zerg and became more adept at defending against roach timings, Zerg players began to turn to more late game oriented builds.

Thus, the double evolution chamber, three hatchery opening was born. Instead of opting for such an early roach warren for pressure/defense, Zerg players would build two early evolution chambers to pump out both melee and armor upgrades for their ground units. This style helped Zergs defend better against the common mid-game, three-base Protoss pushes while making sure broodlings and cracklings (adrenal gland zerglings) would be more powerful once they were out.

Unfortunately, one big disadvantage of this build is its inability to deal with any sort of +1 four-gate pressure – the exact kind of pressures that were so easily stopped by the earlier, roach warren oriented builds. As no zergling upgrades will finish by the time this pressure hits, the Zerg often finds himself helpless against zealots that can two-shot these zerglings.

Going for no-roach builds against these types of +1 zealot pressures, Zerg only has two solutions. The first solution, which is to deny proxy pylons, requires extremely diligent scouting and isn't always reliable. The second, surprisingly effective strategy, is to just hope that the Protoss doesn't do this type of pressure. Though +1 four-gate pressure builds were extremely popular in late 2011(especially from HerO and MC), they soon saw less use as Zergs figured them out precisely, using perfectly timed roaches to deny the pressure and take an often game-winning economic lead.

However, as Zergs began playing more greedily by skipping the roach warren, these +1 zealot builds suddenly became viable once again. Normally, against a normal high level Zerg who isn't as exposed, these builds would be akin to a coin flip/all-in type strategy. But against Stephano, a player with more VODs and replays available to study than any other Zerg on the planet, it begins to seem like more than a 50/50 proposition.

[image loading]

Stephano struggled to hold off the initial zealots. He's even more ill-prepared for the follow-up dark templar.

Surely enough, Flying chose a +1 four-gate in game one ([image loading]VOD) with a dark templar follow-up. After spotting Flying's lack of natural gas and his lack of a third base(surefire signs of gateway pressure), Stephano made the questionable decision to add two evolution chambers instead of preparing with a roach warren. To combat the warping in of zealots, Stephano flooded lings and even hastily added two spines. Unfortunately, under all this duress, Stephano was unable to scout the hidden dark shrine, and he soon found dark templars taking down his main.

As the Phoenix flies.

After a loss to roach pressure in the second game, Flying then turned to a build order from his teammate, sOs, in game three. In an interview, sOs once said of this build:
Q: Your build order vs. RorO was very impressive.

sOs: That was a build order that I had prepared long ago. Whenever Zergs see a Protoss go for phoenixes they grab their upgrades and go for ling/infestor rather than go for roaches. So that was a build order that I came up with because I saw what kind of reaction Zergs were doing. I think I executed the build order well because it was my own build order.

That build was a phoenix opening into four-gate +1 pressure, again designed to abuse double evolution chamber, low-roach count builds. Stephano, had learned from game one and built an early roach warren in order to deal with any straight-up versions of gateway pressure. Flying, however, was perfectly ok with this as his stargate opening was designed to throw Zergs off their rhythm. The stargate accomplished two major things:
  • It threw Stephano off: Stargate macro openings are commonplace, but the gateway pressure follow-up is extremely rare and hasn't seen much use since late 2011. As soon as Stephano spotted a stargate, he assumed a macro build and immediately added a second evolution chamber for more upgrades, falling right into Flying's trap.

    [image loading]

    Clear cause and effect relationship here, see phoenix -> build second evolution chamber.

  • It denied overlord scouting: Without overlord scouting, Zerg must blindly account for all possible follow-ups, even this extremely rare pressure. Even though Stephano's response of a second evolution chamber and no roaches would have been great against 95% of Protoss builds, it completely failed against this one. Stephano chose to not play completely safe and was forced to pay the consequences.


In the end, Stephano had no answer against Flying's +1 zealots, and was forced to GG out of the series.

Flying's win over Stephano was less a demonstration of his superior play but of his superior preparation. Flying carefully chose his builds, using an extremely rare build in game one to abuse Stephano's tendencies in the current metagame. Then, when Stephano had adapted to retro +1 four-gate pressure, Flying chose another rare, metagame abusing build. By using a stargate to trick Stephano, Flying once again defeated him with +1 zealots, despite the fact that Stephano had it in mind.




Messing with Timings
» (Z)ST_Curious vs. (P)SKT_PartinG, Code S Ro8
- ([image loading]VOD)

One of the most infamous strategies in the PvZ match-up is the "Soul" immortal-sentry all-in and no one is more renowned for this push than Parting. As Curious was on the same team as Parting for over a year, and had even lost to this push before in a previous tournament, he was sure to be extremely familiar with its deadliness as they headed into their Ro8 match. But instead of practicing a counter that involved directly holding off the push, Curious went for an alternative route.

Your soul is mine!

As with other famous all-ins before it, one of the biggest reasons the immortal all-in is so strong is the timing at which it hits. Parting's build is especially incredible in its refinement, designed to strike at the 9:40 mark, give or take ten seconds. However, this timing can only be attained by a specific build order that includes calculated corner cutting, and can only be safely done when a Zerg opponent opens with a textbook, three-hatch build.

Curious turned this assumption on its head, opening with early 11 pools twice against Parting. Of course, Parting could have still opted for an adjusted immortal all-in after holding off the early pressure, but his timings would have been off and he would no longer have been as confident that his push would work. And though this decision to open with early pools might normally put him behind, Curious was willing to take that potential hit in order to not have to deal Parting's dreaded all-in. The tactic proved successful as Parting went for macro games in every game of the series, abandoning his signature build.

There was yet another level of deviousness to Curious' planning. After opening with six lings in game one, he only popped out two in the second game. This ensured that after "training" Parting in game one, Curious could force him to over-prepare for the possibility of lings in game two.

[image loading]

After saving three larva, Curious built only one set of lings while turning the other two eggs into drones, fooling Parting's scouting probe.

While his choice of early pool openers was an intelligent way for Curious to seal off his opponent's most dangerous build and get in his head, it was only one of many reasons he was able to score a 3 - 0 victory over his old teammate. Another, possibly more important strategic decision from Curious involved resurrecting a long abandoned unit...



The Return of the Mutalisk

With the recent infestor nerfs, Zergs have been turning to alternative ways to beat Protoss. The two units that have been the most resurgent are two old staples of the match-up in the hydralisk and the mutalisk. In the later stages of 2012, these units became almost non-existent in the PvZ match-up, but now Zergs are beginning to see them as viable choices. Let's look at mutalisks in particular, as they played a major part in the most recent GSL.

In late 2011, mass mutalisks was at the peak of its power in PvZ. Fueled by favorable mutalisk maps where defending three bases was extremely difficult (Tal'Darim Altar, Dual Sight, etc.), Zerg players of all levels were frustrating Protoss players to no end. Eventually, Protoss improved their builds and execution against these flying menaces, the extremely favorable mutalisk maps were phased out, and Zergs found more effective strategies such as those involving roaches and infestors. However, many Zerg players still found mutalisks to be an effectve way to mix-up their game, and it remained a very viable strategy. It took an upgrade called Anion Pulse-Crystals to finally seal the mutalisk coffin shut.

In Feburary of 2012, Blizzard finally responded to complaints about mutalisks in the PvZ match-up and gave Protoss a new tool to deal with mutalisks. This turned out to be an upgrade to the phoenix researched at the fleet beacon, giving them the range to kite mutalisks indefinitely. Previously, normal stargate openings were ineffective against mutalisks because of the ability of the mutalisks to overwhelm phoenix production with sheer numbers, and the impossibility of actually microing phoenixes against mutalisks. With the new range upgrade, a small fleet of phoenixes could take on much larger numbers of mutalisks.

Between the release of this patch in Feburary of 2012 and the end of 2012, fast mutalisk play was almost non-existent in the PvZ match-up for fear of a stargate opening, which now hard countered fast mutalisk openings. Zerg players who didn't adapt quickly enough immediately paid the price:
  • (P)HerO vs. (Z)Curious on Metropolis from GSL 2012 Season 2, played 3/27 - [image loading]VOD
  • (P)HerO vs. (Z)Stephano on Entombed Valley from EGMC, played 5/8 - [image loading]VOD
  • (P)MC vs. (Z)Stephano on Entombed Valley from IPL Fight Club, played 5/10 - [image loading]VOD

Each of these games was played shortly after the phoenix patch when Zerg players were not so aware of the powers of this new phoenix. And in each of the games, the mutalisks were easily killed off by a fleet of kiting phoenix resulting in an easy win for the Protoss. This threat of ranged phoenix combined with the fact that phoenix openings are by far the most common openings in macro PvZ seemed to kill of the viability of mutalisks for good.

So what happened in 2013? In both PvZ quarterfinal series in this GSL, we saw mutalisk play being used to great success even against stargate openers. Had something changed drastically in the metagame or, had players just forget how to play? To delve into this question, let's take a look at each game individually:


» (P)PartinG vs (Z)Curious, Game 1 on Daybreak - [image loading]VOD

Parting opened with a stargate, but only made two phoenixes, sacrificing phoenix count for a faster expansion. He then scouted double evolution chamber and an infestation pit and automatically assumed standard infestor play. Although he was surprised by the mutalisks, he played beautifully to ensure he didn't fall as behind as much as he might have had. In this particular game, Parting made the correct choice to opt for a stalker/templar-based defense instead of a phoenix-based defense as belatedly increasing his phoenix count would not have been able to combat mutalisks Curious had already amassed.

However, I will comment that Parting's build did not seem to consider mutalisks as a possibility. Though neither side took any economic damage in the early game, Parting looked quite far behind when the mutalisks arrived at his base as he had neither a high stalker count with templar incoming nor a high phoenix count when the mutalisks came (one of these is generally required to not get torn to shreds by mutalisks). Though Parting made a game out of it with great decision making and micro, you can't help but think that he was not playing from an ideal start.

[image loading]

Parting's paltry anti-mutalisk force suggests his build is much more optimized for infestor play than for mutalisk play


» (P)PartinG vs (Z)Curious Game 2 on Bel'Shir Vestige SE - [image loading]VOD

Game two seemed to be set up perfectly for Parting. He opened with a healthy amount of phoenixes and scouted Curious' spire early in the game. But when no mutalisks came, Parting became confused, wondering if he had been tricked again. Autopilot kicked in yet again as Parting once again hopped towards blink and colossi for possible infestor tech. When Curious' delayed mutalisks finally did show their faces, Parting was caught off-guard yet again. He started building a templar archives only to shortly realize that it was the wrong path so late in the game, canceling it in favor of a fleet beacon while mutalisks continued to ravage his base. Unfortunately, that choice was too late as well, as Parting's investment into three different tech paths of phoenix, blink stalkers and colossi left him decidedly unfocused in any one of the three. It almost seemed like he was facing this stargate vs. mutalisk scenario for the first time in months and was scrambling to remember how to properly play the situation.

[image loading]

This one screenshot tells the tale of this game. Parting's indecisiveness shows as he cancels his templar archives in favor of a fleet beacon.


» (Z)RorO vs (P)MC Game 1 on Bel'Shir Vestige SE - [image loading]VOD

RorO vs. MC on Bel'Shir Vestige had a similar feel as Parting's game on the same map. MC opened with a stargate build and held off early roach aggression, catapulting himself into the lead. After killing three queens, there seemed to be no way a player of MC's caliber could lose the game. However, MC's improper scouting and an assumption that RorO would follow-up with infestors meant that mutalisks would be ravaging his bases shortly.

Even after spotting the mutalisks, MC's reaction was remarkably slow, only adding a fleet beacon a full minute after the first sighting the mutalisks, and only adding additional phoenix even later. Perhaps MC had over-thought the situation, thinking that RorO would not dare to go mutalisks after his spire was scouted. In any case, with a low phoenix count and no range upgrade, MC would soon be overrun by RorO's sheer numbers.

[image loading]

Unfortunately, 6 phoenix cannot take on 22 mutalisks


No big deal?

The conclusion? Mutalisks have not gotten suddenly better; Protoss players are just being surprised by mutalisks because they're so uncommon. Protoss players need to scout more carefully and be mentally prepared for mutalisks so that if an early spire does present itself, they quickly take the appropriate measures to curb any unnecessary damage. If Wings of Liberty continued on, I'd make the daring prediction that we'd start to see Protoss players holding them much more often with phoenixes, and Zergs abandoning the strategy once again, after taking advantage of it briefly.



The Advent of Sky-toss

With the recent nerfs to both fungal growth range and infested terrans, the shape of late game PvZ has been changing drastically. Previously, players had been trying carrier compositions in PvZ with mixed success. While sometimes effective, they were more often than not shut down cold by split map scenarios, fungals on interceptors, spores, and infested terrans. But with the advent of the new changes, the void ray began to see a return to late game PvZ. Especially because infested terrans now do atrocious damage against heavily upgraded void rays, Protoss have now been attempting late game PvZ with sky-toss compositions not just in HotS, but WoL as well. The ultimate Protoss army now seems to consist of a mothership, ~4 carriers to siege, archons and templars to deal with corruptors and infestors, and the rest mass void rays. Now Protoss seems to be able to better compete with late game turtle Zerg, causing Zergs to switch up their strategies even more. The following two games from GSL especially show off this composition.

» (P)MC vs (Z)Curious, Game Three- [image loading]VOD
» (P)PartinG vs (Z)BBoongBBoong, Game Two - [image loading]VOD


[image loading]
[image loading]

No, this is not HotS.


Zerg Adaptation to Sky-toss

In one of his games against Parting in the GSL quarterfinals, Curious made a small adaptation to the new late-game skytoss compositions ([image loading]VOD, Game One). In this game, Curious opened mutalisks and then transitioned into brood lords with double spire. The adaptation he made was to cut ground upgrades altogether, favoring fast air upgrades instead, something that has never been done in brood lord-based PvZ before. This seems like a rather curious decision, but when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. After all, ground upgrades are mainly useful for three purposes:
  • Holding three base Protoss pushes - Since Curious opened mass mutalisks against a relatively unprepared Parting, he realized that a ground-based push would not be possible for the Protoss player. If Parting would indeed push, Curious would rely on base trading instead of fighting the army head on.
  • Mitigating Protoss Warp Prism harass - With the excess of minerals Curious had stockpiled from building only mutalisks, brood lords, and infestors, Curious could afford some of the biggest forests of spore and spine crawlers we'd ever seen. Instead of partially relying on a mobile force of units to defend drops, Curious would rely completely on spine crawlers.
  • Added damage on broodlings- Against a ground-based army, added damage and armor on broodlings would be nice. But knowing the current air metagame of PvZ and specifically Parting's tendencies to go into air, as shown by his game against BBoongBBoong, Curious successfully predicted that Parting would head towards the skytoss route. Thus, Curious chose to save his gas on these upgrades in favor of more corruptors and infestors to combat the Protoss air army.

[image loading]

Parting thinks he's doing terrible damage when all he's doing is killing a useless building


This small adaptation is just one in a series of small tweaks Curious made to his PvZ to specifically prepare for the opponent he had before him. While many were surprised at Curious' advancement to the semifinals, the amount of refinement and innovation that can be seen in his play showed that he deserved it.


*****


And there you have it, PvZ at the very end of Wings of Liberty. With both Parting and MC dropping out of the GSL, so goes the last hopes of a final Protoss GSL champion. We say goodbye to WoL PvZ and look forward to what the introduction of units like the tempest and swarm host will bring in HotS.

Writers: monk.
Graphics: Meko.
Editor: Waxangel.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14456 Posts
March 02 2013 11:38 GMT
#2
Wow nice !
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
March 02 2013 11:39 GMT
#3
About time you posted this, so slow

Just kidding, well done!
AdministratorBreak the chains
Lasbike
Profile Joined January 2011
France2888 Posts
March 02 2013 11:42 GMT
#4
Very interesting. Well done
Fuell
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands3111 Posts
March 02 2013 11:42 GMT
#5
Damn, thanks! I'm gonna love reading this
fOu/Zenith/NEX/WeRRa/SlayerS
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
March 02 2013 11:44 GMT
#6
wtf monk i had no idea you were writing this
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6328 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 11:46:33
March 02 2013 11:44 GMT
#7
Smart and great as ever bro! Also Wax you messed up the front page!
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
March 02 2013 11:46 GMT
#8
I only wish this had happened two or three months earlier especially november of 2012 might have turned out to be much more interesting in terms of PvZ. Great read regardless!
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
RyanRushia
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2748 Posts
March 02 2013 11:53 GMT
#9
awesome write up! haven't put as much attention into WoL as much as i used to, great to see a nice recap
I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. | coL.Ryan | www.twitter.com/coL_RyanR
forgehammer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States79 Posts
March 02 2013 11:54 GMT
#10
Beautiful article, forgot an "o" in "mnths" in the opening paragraph (pet peeve), but absolutely wonderful. I almost wish we had more time in WoL since everything is finally being figured out.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
March 02 2013 11:58 GMT
#11
more creatively than they had in mnths


months*
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
March 02 2013 12:02 GMT
#12
The vods links, at least for the skytoss examples, appear to go to the completely wrong videos.

That aside, interesting writeup, though a bit disconcerting how at the highest level of play people are basically just on autopilot, playing routine.
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
March 02 2013 12:04 GMT
#13
The problem with those vod links is that since gom changed their website a bit, you get redirected to a day's matched (ro32 group b or whatever), and then you have to pick the vod by clicking. Pretty annoying for us writers.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Luzian
Profile Joined February 2013
Switzerland26 Posts
March 02 2013 12:05 GMT
#14
Great read.

I found a typo you might want to fix:
As no zergling upgrades will finish by the team this pressure hits,

*time
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33326 Posts
March 02 2013 12:13 GMT
#15
On March 02 2013 21:04 Teoita wrote:
The problem with those vod links is that since gom changed their website a bit, you get redirected to a day's matched (ro32 group b or whatever), and then you have to pick the vod by clicking. Pretty annoying for us writers.


yeh, this is an annoying change T_T
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
March 02 2013 12:16 GMT
#16
Nice read, thanks for taking the time to write this up.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
March 02 2013 12:17 GMT
#17
How the meta changes ) So much diversity
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
jcroisdale
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1543 Posts
March 02 2013 12:19 GMT
#18
Got to appreciate monk playing toss. One of the most in-depth writers and it always beneficial as a toss player myself.
"I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
March 02 2013 12:28 GMT
#19
great read. thank you guys.
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
Tsubbi
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7979 Posts
March 02 2013 12:48 GMT
#20
great writeup, really dont understand why the most crazy new build wasnt even mentioned though: lifes hydra builds vs parting changed how a lot of zvp's were played afterwards even in proleague
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
March 02 2013 12:55 GMT
#21
Hydra into muta isn't very new, Zenio used to do it in like late 2011 (i think)
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
iky43210
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2099 Posts
March 02 2013 12:55 GMT
#22
missing archon toilets, early roach + hydra build, mass roach 12 minute timing (which is what made immortals hugely popular in PvZ later on, was pure colossus before hand), and returns of hydras recently after immortals became so popular
Tsubbi
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7979 Posts
March 02 2013 12:57 GMT
#23
On March 02 2013 21:55 Teoita wrote:
Hydra into muta isn't very new, Zenio used to do it in like late 2011 (i think)


yeah i saw some silver guy do it in wol beta too, inventing isnt innovating though
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33326 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 13:11:56
March 02 2013 13:11 GMT
#24
On March 02 2013 21:55 iky43210 wrote:
missing archon toilets, early roach + hydra build, mass roach 12 minute timing (which is what made immortals hugely popular in PvZ later on, was pure colossus before hand), and returns of hydras recently after immortals became so popular


your reading comprehension is lacking, if you even did real the whole thing.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
March 02 2013 13:12 GMT
#25
Really really nice post! I hope to see some in the HOTS in few months! Great work, keep it up! :D
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Starbucks
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom14 Posts
March 02 2013 13:19 GMT
#26
Great write up, thanks.
ChriseC
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany440 Posts
March 02 2013 13:19 GMT
#27
i hope pvz will develop in a more open less turtle matchup

at the end of wol pvz was hard to watch
logic13
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Sweden128 Posts
March 02 2013 13:21 GMT
#28
Great article!
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
March 02 2013 13:24 GMT
#29
nice job!
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Fragile51
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands15767 Posts
March 02 2013 13:31 GMT
#30
Great read Monk.
kskusanagi
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)133 Posts
March 02 2013 13:36 GMT
#31
First time I actually read a full post and i think i learned a lot, thanks for all the efforts you put into this! gj~
It's never to late to realize you're not on time
CamoPillbox
Profile Joined April 2012
Czech Republic229 Posts
March 02 2013 13:46 GMT
#32
nice post u can add too prediction on gsl finals too ZVZ so Zerg wins Zerg op Wol luckily for them Skytoss Hots and Mine Fields coming
Czech Terran(Hots) player
Mikelius
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany517 Posts
March 02 2013 14:05 GMT
#33
Nice article!
Less QQ, more PewPew
snakeyezz
Profile Joined April 2011
South Africa26 Posts
March 02 2013 14:05 GMT
#34
very nice ^_^ Skytoss seems inevitable in hots sadly
"NOOOOOOOOOOOO jimmy"
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
March 02 2013 14:18 GMT
#35
amazing post :D nice!
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Darthsanta13
Profile Joined July 2011
United States564 Posts
March 02 2013 14:33 GMT
#36
Awesome article! Thanks for putting so much time into this!
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
March 02 2013 14:37 GMT
#37
On March 02 2013 23:05 snakeyezz wrote:
very nice ^_^ Skytoss seems inevitable in hots sadly


Nothing sad to have more options. Hopefully it does not become the norm.
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
March 02 2013 15:00 GMT
#38
Very interesting and insightful. I would love to hear some pro's weigh in on your analysis.
nGMuii
Profile Joined March 2011
Singapore98 Posts
March 02 2013 15:19 GMT
#39
nice article
cheers
Mantaza
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany87 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 15:24:48
March 02 2013 15:23 GMT
#40
Oo the match Up really envolved ?
I dont really think so...
sjperera
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada349 Posts
March 02 2013 15:26 GMT
#41
Unfortunately, none of this did little than provide a few accents to the basic progression and we`re left with ZvZs galore and a Roro v. Symbol final to end the last WoL GSL...
Stormbringer!!!
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
March 02 2013 16:14 GMT
#42
good piece. well worth a read.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Mo0Rauder
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada182 Posts
March 02 2013 16:20 GMT
#43
Great writeup and an even better read, good job. Made my afternoon coffee that much more enjoyable. Thankyou.
All work or all play? Nive to five? Or, five to nine?
Pimpmuckl
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany528 Posts
March 02 2013 16:21 GMT
#44
Brother behold, dat writeup!

Loving it! Really liked the games shown in this seasons GSL so far, can't wait for next season!
twitter.com/pimpmuckl
Trasko
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden983 Posts
March 02 2013 16:30 GMT
#45
i love these recaps.. <3 I love you TL
Jaedong <3
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
March 02 2013 16:32 GMT
#46
awesome writeup, love in depth strategy analysis like this.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
mrRoflpwn
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States2618 Posts
March 02 2013 16:49 GMT
#47
The subtlety of the 2 lings and 2 drones instead of 6 lings is so big. I know when I scout and i see an early pool and then 3 larvae being made into something i immediately assume lings (why else would you get an early pool). Curious came really prepared and played some awesome mind games in his series. I'm still sad about MC vs Roro =[ Neat write up monk!

I also was expecting a section on Life's Hydra builds seeing how they completely shut down Parting.
Long live the Boss Toss!
evilpeoples
Profile Joined November 2012
52 Posts
March 02 2013 16:51 GMT
#48
that was an awesome read and really interesting. well done.
Go Parting, Life, Rain, Innovation
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria907 Posts
March 02 2013 18:10 GMT
#49
Very nice write-up.
Livin' this life like it was written.
Snijjer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States989 Posts
March 02 2013 18:17 GMT
#50
Great article, hope to see more of these in the future ^^
cskalias.pbe
Profile Joined April 2010
United States293 Posts
March 02 2013 18:21 GMT
#51
I dont play Protosss but all of your analytic posts are excellent. A new appreciation for PvZ and PvP for sure.
Gorlin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2753 Posts
March 02 2013 18:57 GMT
#52
Great read, thanks!
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-02 19:26:38
March 02 2013 19:25 GMT
#53
PvZ and ZvP are floppy as fuck.

Though it does feel good to wreck a nerd .

Fuck yeah Monk you rock ! Nice stirrup

Edit : write up not stirrup , DYAC
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
mythandier
Profile Joined January 2011
United States828 Posts
March 02 2013 19:29 GMT
#54
Awesome write-up Monk. This definitely a great analysis of the meta game shifts in the match up. Probably one of my favorite articles of at least the last 6 months.
Lazzi
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland1923 Posts
March 02 2013 19:36 GMT
#55
Awesome! No, it's even better.
It's good to be back
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
March 02 2013 19:56 GMT
#56
Amazing writeup, interesting to see how much preparation can really make a difference
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1332 Posts
March 02 2013 20:23 GMT
#57
That was really, really enjoyable
Mullet_Ben
Profile Joined August 2011
United States54 Posts
March 02 2013 20:41 GMT
#58
I am somewhat disappointed there is no mention of Life's awesome ling hydra into mutalisk counter to the immortal sentry all-in (which apparently works even when your opponent doesn't sentry immortal all-in) from his first series against Parting.
KaiserCommander
Profile Joined April 2010
Mexico290 Posts
March 02 2013 20:56 GMT
#59
An amazing evolution about to finish, HotS is comming...
Jinro, Polt, Bomber, ForGG, MajOr, Flash, Maru. Terran Fighting...
Meadowlark
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States349 Posts
March 02 2013 21:35 GMT
#60
This seems like a rather curious decision

heheheh
''Three bottles of Monster in a day; I'm pumped as fuck." -Stephano
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
March 02 2013 21:44 GMT
#61
On March 03 2013 05:41 Mullet_Ben wrote:
I am somewhat disappointed there is no mention of Life's awesome ling hydra into mutalisk counter to the immortal sentry all-in (which apparently works even when your opponent doesn't sentry immortal all-in) from his first series against Parting.

Ooops. That would have been good. Just slipped my mind. This article was originally supposed to be much smaller, but I just kept pilling things on. Now that I've had some time to think about it more, there were quite a few topics I could have added. Oh well, till next time.
Moderator
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
March 02 2013 22:30 GMT
#62
First a Protoss vs Zerg bible and now another article dedicated to PvZ?

Will the Team Liquid terrans and Zergs please stand up.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Buddy168
Profile Joined June 2012
United States157 Posts
March 02 2013 23:00 GMT
#63
On March 03 2013 07:30 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
First a Protoss vs Zerg bible and now another article dedicated to PvZ?

Will the Team Liquid terrans and Zergs please stand up.


This
"You're being a useless fucking asshole" - Day[9]
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
March 03 2013 00:00 GMT
#64
Thank you so much for this! It's a great pleasure learning about such deep strategy and mind games going on between pro players in these games, the kind of stuff I would never ever figure out on my own. Really helps one appreciate the level of thinking involved in SC.
jjakji fan
xmungam
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1050 Posts
March 03 2013 01:17 GMT
#65
can i just rage for a second. everything i write is MY opinion and i mean no offense.

+ Show Spoiler +

On the face of it, Flying vs. Stephano looked to be an easy win for the French Zerg. With a long losing streak in Proleague, Flying looked like he was tampering off, destined to remain on Woongjin's B lineup. On the other hand, Stephano is widely regarded as world class in the ZvP match-up, consistently revolutionizing it with his builds and strategies. Through on paper Stephano looked to be the superior player, Flying showed how big an advantage careful preparation could be against a relatively predictable player like Stephano. In fact, Stephano had made several public statements on how the preparation focused GSL did not suit his style, perhaps foreseeing a loss like this long before anyone else


How is the the most bullshit paragraph i have ever read. Flying just beat FLASH AND JAEDONG in the proleague and has been showing signs of an A team protoss for a while now. Stephano was the underdog here obviously , and yet this paragraph paints him as some hopeless hero that knew he was going to loose! the last sentence is actually so fan-boy-y and isn't anything except a HUGE BULLSHIT EXCUSE which is untrue because YEARS ago i was saying that stephano wouldn't do as well in GSL because it takes more specific preparation vs a single player. Eg-TL has no ability to prepare their players for special matches and this would make it even harder for an up and coming zerg like stephano to get better vs koreans.

fuck this entire post because protoss is still bullshit , and its well known that they complain the most. protoss - we all hate you. zvz is even better. I SAID IT

TL .... another day another nice try.


User was banned for this post.
youtube.com/xmungam ~~ twitch.tv/thenessman
sCnDiamond
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany340 Posts
March 03 2013 01:33 GMT
#66
Great read, thanks for the insights.
formerly spinnaker.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
March 03 2013 01:41 GMT
#67
On March 03 2013 10:17 xmungam wrote:
can i just rage for a second. everything i write is MY opinion and i mean no offense.

+ Show Spoiler +

On the face of it, Flying vs. Stephano looked to be an easy win for the French Zerg. With a long losing streak in Proleague, Flying looked like he was tampering off, destined to remain on Woongjin's B lineup. On the other hand, Stephano is widely regarded as world class in the ZvP match-up, consistently revolutionizing it with his builds and strategies. Through on paper Stephano looked to be the superior player, Flying showed how big an advantage careful preparation could be against a relatively predictable player like Stephano. In fact, Stephano had made several public statements on how the preparation focused GSL did not suit his style, perhaps foreseeing a loss like this long before anyone else


How is the the most bullshit paragraph i have ever read. Flying just beat FLASH AND JAEDONG in the proleague and has been showing signs of an A team protoss for a while now. Stephano was the underdog here obviously , and yet this paragraph paints him as some hopeless hero that knew he was going to loose! the last sentence is actually so fan-boy-y and isn't anything except a HUGE BULLSHIT EXCUSE which is untrue because YEARS ago i was saying that stephano wouldn't do as well in GSL because it takes more specific preparation vs a single player. Eg-TL has no ability to prepare their players for special matches and this would make it even harder for an up and coming zerg like stephano to get better vs koreans.

fuck this entire post because protoss is still bullshit , and its well known that they complain the most. protoss - we all hate you. zvz is even better. I SAID IT

TL .... another day another nice try.

flash win is good, jaedong win not so much lol.
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
March 03 2013 02:04 GMT
#68
Whoah, great writeup!

Thank you for writing this : it's like, I have a feeling that the game changes, but I can't exactly describe why. Thanks for clearing this up for me!
Catix
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany9 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-03 02:14:03
March 03 2013 02:10 GMT
#69
no offense to the op BUT

i dont know how anyone can possibly enjoy reading something about zvp, its the eyesore of sc2
i would even go so far and say its the worst matchup ever in any blizzardgame or heck even all rts ever made
i hope blizzard doesnt fuck it up even harder (holy shit who would have thought that this is even possible)with skytoss in hots

User was warned for this post
Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
March 03 2013 02:20 GMT
#70
Interesting that the end of a terran themed first game is a ZvZ. Maybe HotS will end with a PVP and LotV will end with a TVT.
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-03 02:24:31
March 03 2013 02:24 GMT
#71
theres month old and possibly year old posts of me saying to go ht/void ray in pvz

its literally worked since 2011, but 7 gate blinks and other such skill less timings (or 3 base, 160 food collosus all ins) were so much easier to do
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
March 03 2013 03:29 GMT
#72
On March 03 2013 07:30 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
First a Protoss vs Zerg bible and now another article dedicated to PvZ?

Will the Team Liquid terrans and Zergs please stand up.


This isn't a protoss overview of pvz or a zerg overview of ZvP, but rather a view on how the match-up evolved for both sides.
Grayvind
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland2 Posts
March 03 2013 05:32 GMT
#73
Good write up. Thank you, awesome job!
Velinath
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States694 Posts
March 03 2013 08:30 GMT
#74
This is a brilliant writeup. Really appreciate the effort that went into this - definitely provided some great insight into the state of the current strategies. Thanks.
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
March 03 2013 11:22 GMT
#75
so good
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
March 03 2013 12:39 GMT
#76
i miss the days of roach infestor NPing colossus from miles away
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5594 Posts
March 03 2013 12:53 GMT
#77
Very nice read!

But... "The value of preparation" just reads like a huge downplaying of Flyings skill. I'm completely certain that Flying is a much stronger player than Stephano, with or without preparation. Flying didn't (unlike Stephano!) cut out playing in PL to prepare for his GSL match.

Also, you should read his interview about his preparation for the match:
For the first time, you've advanced to the third round of Code A with today's victory. How do you feel?

I am so glad that I was able to beat a player like Stephano who is known for being good at ZvP even though I didn't get a lot of practicing done.

You were able to win because you responded to his strategies. Where did you put your focus on?

I studied Stephano's VODs as I pondered about which strategy would be the best to use against him but I just ended up deciding what to do as I was playing against him.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Grapefruit
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany439 Posts
March 03 2013 13:46 GMT
#78
Why is there always so much talk about PvZ when TvZ has been a LOT more Zerg favored ever since the Queen buff?
Starcraft 2 is funny, everybody picks the race, which he considers to be the weakest. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Puph
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada635 Posts
March 03 2013 15:02 GMT
#79
On March 03 2013 06:35 Meadowlark wrote:
Show nested quote +
This seems like a rather curious decision

heheheh

That was a good one :D

I'm not one for reading whole write-ups but this one was well written, before I knew it I read every single word. Great re-cap!
Intel Dual Core 4400 @ ~2.00GHz / 2046MB RAM / 256 MB ATI Radeon x1300PRO
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
March 03 2013 15:09 GMT
#80
Absolutely great write up, loved reading every line twice! Personally, I still have a suspicion that mutas are too good in ZvP though for WoL. I guess what matters more is how the new mutas will play out in HotS. It almost seems like Blizzard is saying with the MSC and free halluc., Protoss are going to be in a better spot early game anyway so it's OK to buff the mutas. But then the phoenix +1 range buff is there just in case the other stuff doesn't work out.

In HotS, my biggest fear is something we saw in at least one of these games, and that is the old switch from units that call for robo units... especially colossus, to a hard muta switch. That is really hard to deal with. Again, I suspect hallucination is going to be the key.
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-03 15:12:07
March 03 2013 15:11 GMT
#81
On March 03 2013 21:53 Elroi wrote:
Very nice read!

But... "The value of preparation" just reads like a huge downplaying of Flyings skill. I'm completely certain that Flying is a much stronger player than Stephano, with or without preparation. Flying didn't (unlike Stephano!) cut out playing in PL to prepare for his GSL match.

Also, you should read his interview about his preparation for the match:
Show nested quote +
For the first time, you've advanced to the third round of Code A with today's victory. How do you feel?

I am so glad that I was able to beat a player like Stephano who is known for being good at ZvP even though I didn't get a lot of practicing done.

You were able to win because you responded to his strategies. Where did you put your focus on?

I studied Stephano's VODs as I pondered about which strategy would be the best to use against him but I just ended up deciding what to do as I was playing against him.


I don't know man, when I watched those games it screamed out "studied his opponent, pulled out some really smart counter builds". Sometimes for interviews the coaches tell these guys to downlplay their actual strategy you know, so they aren't always forthcoming with what was really going on behind the scenes.
HpKbonanza
Profile Joined March 2012
Sweden1 Post
March 03 2013 15:11 GMT
#82
This was really nice!
lead, don't follow
DanceSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States751 Posts
March 03 2013 16:16 GMT
#83
Nice writeup Monk!
Dance.943 || "I think he's just going to lose. There's only so many ways you can lose. And he's going to make some kind of units. And I'm going to attack him, and then all his stuff is going to die. That's about the best prediction that I can make" - NonY
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2143 Posts
March 03 2013 17:27 GMT
#84
Really good
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Group A
Cure vs ByuNLIVE!
Percival vs Spirit
Tasteless667
ComeBackTV 641
IndyStarCraft 159
IntoTheiNu 52
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 667
Lowko269
IndyStarCraft 159
ProTech60
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7862
Sea 5833
Rain 5232
Horang2 1472
Pusan 608
BeSt 358
EffOrt 311
Stork 273
Hyun 212
Mong 138
[ Show more ]
Mini 122
ZerO 112
Light 101
Rush 66
ToSsGirL 62
JulyZerg 61
Liquid`Ret 51
Snow 48
Sacsri 39
[sc1f]eonzerg 24
GoRush 22
Sharp 22
Movie 17
Icarus 17
soO 15
sSak 12
HiyA 11
Shine 10
scan(afreeca) 7
ivOry 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 472
XcaliburYe333
Gorgc311
Fuzer 217
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1694
shoxiejesuss639
Stewie2K536
x6flipin507
allub142
Other Games
singsing1503
B2W.Neo727
C9.Mang0358
crisheroes348
Pyrionflax227
DeMusliM131
Mew2King86
ArmadaUGS22
Trikslyr19
ZerO(Twitch)19
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream18821
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 52
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota250
League of Legends
• Stunt543
Other Games
• WagamamaTV89
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Qualifier
4h 23m
PiGosaur Monday
12h 23m
RSL Revival
22h 23m
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
1d 12h
The PondCast
1d 22h
RSL Revival
1d 22h
Harstem vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
SC Evo League
4 days
[ Show More ]
Circuito Brasileiro de…
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.