NaNiwa advances to Code S Ro16 Mvp advances to Code S Ro16 Ryung falls to Code A Ro32 Puzzle falls to Code A Ro48
Don't lose hope, fans of players who aren't Korean. What looked like might be a second foreigner-less GSL Code S Ro16 in a row now includes one of the biggest stars in the international scene. Quantic.NaNiwa made the best of his seeded Code S debut and advanced out of his group with aplomb, taking out both SlayerS_Puzzle and SlayerS_Ryung to finish first place in a tight group. Far from being outmatched, NaNiwa looked on par, or even better than two of the best pro-gamers SlayerS had to offer. It may not be much of a surprise to some, as NaNiwa has been able to defeat numerous Code S Koreans in international tournaments. With his victories, NaNiwa becomes the fourth non-Korean player to make it past the RO32 in Code S, and he will now look to tie EG's HuK and IdrA by making it through the RO16 to the quarter-finals.
Slightly overshadowed by NaNiwa's rallying cry for foreign hope was the revival of three time GSL champion IMMvp, who had fallen on a patch of poor results in 2012. His RO16 elimination in the previous Code S came as a shock to many, and Mvp had been forced to work his way back up from Code A. Mvp was halfway to another early exit when he lost his first series to Ryung in two lackluster games, but he made up for the disappointment by rallying back to defeat both Puzzle and Ryung while looking very strong in the process.
Earning the seed
Quantic.NaNiwa experienced an early hiccup, losing his very first Code S game to SlayerS_Puzzle's two-immortal drop into colossus push, falling to an unseemly 0 – 11 in the GSL. However, he rebounded strongly on the next two maps. In the second game on ESV Cloud Kingdom, NaNiwa was able to take a fast expansion and defend it successfully, despite Puzzle's aggressive 4-gate, blink stalker (with observers) attack. Though he had to sacrifice some probes on defense, NaNiwa still emerged with a superior economy and was able to roll over Puzzle with that advantage.
The rubber match on Daybreak saw both players take their expansions fairly early, but their diverging decisions gave NaNiwa the eventual victory. While NaNiwa decided to play defensively while going for colossus tech, Puzzle opted to make a large number of stalkers and immortals to try and break NaNiwa's defenses before the colossus count got too high. However, Puzzle couldn't find the correct timing, and his attack simply came too late to hurt the snowballing colossus army. After his attack failed, Puzzle had no choice but to GG out to a far superior colossus based army.
With a Code S spot on the line, NaNiwa went up against SlayerS_Ryung, who had come into the winners' match after further embellishing his reputation as a TvT expert by smashing Mvp 2 – 0. However, Ryung is a player whose TvP is as derided as much as his TvT is praised, and he did nothing to improve his poor TvP reputation in the series.
The first game saw NaNiwa handily defeat Ryung, despite the fact that Ryung managed to hide away a secret expansion which remained undetected for a considerable amount of time, collecting a very significant amount of resources. NaNiwa opened with some early pressure that did moderate damage, but more importantly allowed him to contain Ryung inside his base with force-fields for an extended period. Though Ryung was mining away at his secret base, all of his army was still being produced in his sealed-off main. Ryung had a chance to break out and take control once he had medivacs, but NaNiwa was ready for drop tactics and knocked medivacs from the sky without taking any meaningful damage. The game quickly ended after NaNiwa finally discovered the hidden base, and rolled through both Ryung's main and hidden coffers to collect the GG.
Ryung went for a different sort of risk in game two, rushing up to cloaked banshees after fast expanding. NaNiwa also took a risk of sorts, going up to four-gates after his fast expansion, instead of going for the safe and standard three-gate robotics. When Ryung's SCV scout slipped into NaNiwa's base and revealed all of NaNiwa's plans, it looked all but certain that the series would go to a third set. Ryung had SCVs surrounding the bunkers at his front to take repair against the 4-gate attack, while NaNiwa showed no sign of going for detection. However, somehow things ended up working out for NaNiwa. Instead of going directly at Ryung with his 4-gate, NaNiwa decided to wait a moment, long enough for Ryung to think the rush had been abandoned and send his SCVs back to mining. NaNiwa then hit with an off-tempo attack that went exactly as planned, barreling through Ryung's defenses and wreaking havoc on his base. Ryung was forced to GG out, his banshee being rendered pointless by his lack of any other unit.
Stopping the bleeding
IMMvp earned himself a valuable reprieve by making it out of his group, temporarily holding off the doubts about his status as an elite player. Two feeble games against Ryung, where the TvT specialist defeated both Mvp's bio and mech with alarming ease in macro games, made it seem like Mvp already had one foot in the grave. However, things turned around completely when Mvp played Puzzle in the losers' match.
One thing was for certain - Puzzle is no PartinG. Game one looked like it was torn from the pages of 2011's GSL July, as Mvp's MMM went right at Puzzle's templar supported ground troops, stood their ground against storms, and survived to mangle Puzzle's army. The second game saw Mvp cleverly kill sentries and bait out forcefields with just a handful of hellions, which he followed up with a deadly stimmed infantry attack at a period where Puzzle was relying solely on force-fields to survive.
With the second Code S spot of the night on the line, Mvp went into a re-match with Ryung, who had dropped down to the final series of the night after losing to NaNiwa. The first game looked like it would be a continuation of the first series that Mvp lost very badly, with Ryung's mech absolutely dominating Mvp's bio army on Antiga Shipyard. Unfortunately for Ryung, he ended up playing his lead far too slowly, and allowed Mvp to mask a slow, but steady switch to an enormous viking and battlecruiser based army. It was a perplexing to see a player caught completely off guard by over 60 supply worth of air units at the pro-gamer level, but Mvp managed to pull off that trick for a miracle win.
The second game was a mech duel, but with the two players differing in that Mvp was tank based, while Ryung focused on thors. After a predictably long stand-off period with maxed out armies, the two players used the multiple paths on ESV Cloud Kingdom initiate a gigantic base trade. It turned out that Mvp had far greater firepower than Ryung, and also had far better prioritization. He was able to destroy essentially all of Ryung's important structures, while managing to float several orbitals from his original base to his new home from which Ryung had recently been evicted. Seeing that Mvp could sit on his orbitals and rebuild his infrastructure, Ryung GG'd out.
SlayerS slain
With Puzzle and Ryung joining MMA in Code A, SlayerS is left with no remaining players in Code S. It is sharply disappointing contrast for a team that boasted a GSTL winning line-up around this time last year.
The ground work seems to be set for minor rebound at least, with Alica, Ven (aka Soccer), Brown, and Boxer joining the recently eliminated trio to make it a full seven players in Code A, vying for a chance to get into Code S. However, one cannot help but also notice the names that once carried the SlayerS tag but have left for both greener pastures, and greener money: Golden and Ganzi who are in Code A, and TaeJa who still remains in Code S.
MMA's placement into the same Code A bracket as Boxer is an insult to injury, for the still proud, but much recently beleaguered team. With MMA as their only top class player, SlayerS is in desperate need of new prospects, or large improvements from their existing roster to regain their former glory.
Game of the Night: Mvp vs Ryung - Final Match - Game One
Because, people like comebacks, and people like battlecruisers. Surely you can't go wrong with a combination of the two?
In every GSL season, there is a Group of Death, such as the Parting/Polt/Oz/Fin or the MMA/Squirtle/Leenock/Nada group from this season, or a Group of Life, where you have Genius and Supernova, two of the most experienced Code S players, going up against Seed and B4, two players who really didn't even have that much success in Code A. This group, the finale of this season's first round, might be the most peculiar group that we've ever been witness to. On one side, we have two GSL champions with five titles between them. At the other end of the spectrum, we have two players who, while not having any titles or any consideration as top of the line, S-class players, have successfully defied everyone's expectations to survive in Code S for season after season.
Starting out, we have the only GSL Protoss champion, SK_MC. He went over to Germany and took some more foreign cash to put into his already loaded bank account, but didn't have the same amount of success in Las Vegas where he got fourth in a five man group. The only person he placed higher than was the person he beat in the IEM World Championship finals, Puma, and fell from his loaded group that included Squirtle, Polt, and Creator. Even with that disappointment at IPL4, you can't take that as an indicator of how MC is going to perform in this tournament.
For the past year, people have gone on record as saying that MC would fall off. That his two-base timing attacks and overall play style wouldn't be able to keep up with the new age Protosses. At a certain point in time, the pessimists seemed to be right, with MC falling all the way out of the GSL. Not even a month went by before MC made his doubters shut up, going off to Orlando to get second place, some extra money for his pockets, and a shiny new Code S seed that he hasn't let go to waste. If you were to look at his most recent results at IPL4 and MLG Winter, his PvT looks to be a major weakness that his first set opponent could capitalize on, but MC is no normal player. He can play twelve straight bad games in a row, make you think that he's finally been figured out, and then reel off a championship with the same style you thought was dead twenty minutes earlier.
MC's opponent to begin things will be Startale_Virus, the Startale Terran who I'm pretty sure half of you didn't even know was still in the GSL. If you didn't know Virus was still in Code S, let alone Code A or even still playing Starcraft, pat yourself on the back. While he might not be the most popular...or the strongest...or the most consistent...Virus is who he is. Losira? Polt? Bomber? Yeah, they might, on the surface, look like a better players and have more fans, gone farther in tournaments, etc., but while they've all fallen out of the GSL entirely recently, Virus has stayed alive. Amazingly, with not a single match-up with over a 50% winning percentage, Virus has somehow clawed his way all the way back to Code S after being stuck in Code A.
The GSL is... infected.
Virus had to go to the final game of his Up and Down groups to even make it. With a 2-2 set score and using some trickery to get one of his victories against Huk, he had to hope to beat a player who had already advanced to Code S, Fin, to make it in. The odds were against him, but Virus played one of the most exciting TvT games in a long time on Cloud Kingdom, and even when it seemed like his opponent would overtake him, the crafty Virus hung on long enough to flip the game to his advantage. After watching his games against Fin and Sting on Cloud Kingdom recently and seeing that he beat the prodigy Maru 2-1 at IPL4, I would say that Virus' strongest match-up at the moment is TvT. Sadly, in a tournament once filled to the brim with GOMTvT, he is the only Terran in the group. He will be a heavy underdog against both Nestea or MC, but if we've learned anything, it's to never count out Virus.
Speaking of counting people out, we have IMNesTea. Just when you thought it was safe to give DongRaeGu the title of best Zerg and maybe even best player in the world, he goes off and loses to MarineKing twice in two big finals and then follows it up with an extremely disappointing display in the first round of Code S. Nestea, who people thought was finally going to falter due to his age and the young players catching up to his skill, has pretty much shut everyone up by going to Las Vegas, kicking ass, and coming home with a third place finish. After crushing everyone in the first two days, Nestea did show some fatigue on Championship Sunday and wasn't able to overcome Alive and Squirtle after beating the two earlier in the tournament.
Going into this group, Nestea has to be considered the favorite. MC has also done well at foreign tournaments, but his PvT hasn't looked as strong recently, and if we were to see the two GSL champions battle it out after being teased and disappointed countless times in the past, you would have to give the advantage currently to Nestea who showed strong ZvP at IPL4.
A big factor in Nestea's performance will be how he is feeling after his long travels. It's well known that Nestea doesn't deal well with travel and has never been one of the best Koreans when it came to doing well at foreign tournaments. However, with a few extra days rest compared to the other players who went to Las Vegas, Nestea should be ready to go. Adding even more fuel to the fire, MVP advanced from his group last night, and we all know that Nestea won't quit until he wins his fourth championship before his friend and teammate from Incredible Miracle.
Finally, we have oGsInCa. If you've followed GSL for a while, then there should be one thing that immediate sticks out when you look at this group: Inca vs Nestea, first round match. I like to think that thousands of GSL fans saw that match-up, immediately cleared their scheduled on that day, and descended into their wine cellar to pick an appropriate vintage for the occasion. There's a tantalizing promise of fantastic entertainment, but not because the matches project to be good. No, between the two culprits in the worst GSL final ever, there is the perversely enjoyable expectation of a match that's so bad, it's good.
Will Inca go for a DT expand in the first game?
Will Inca try to trick Nestea into thinking he'll go DT's...before going DT's anyway?
Will Inca try and play a straight up game in his worst match-up against one of the better ZvP'ers in the world?
"Do I look like a noob?" "No!" "Then why'd you try to cheese me like a noob?"
Thing is, you can't count out Inca in this group. After falling out of Code S last time and entirely out of the GSL, people thought he was done. He looked awful while falling out of Code A and not a lot of people expected him to even make it out of Code A qualifiers. Inca not only got through the qualifiers, but got into the Up and Downs where he was able to use his DT's to knock Polt and Losira – two mainstays of Code S – out into Code A before both of them fell into Code B the next season. A lot like Virus, Inca will not be a favorite to make it out of his group, but if he can roll a PvP against MC and get a win there, that means he only needs to go 1-1 against the rest to get out of the group.
It's been a year since the worst finals to ever take in e-sports history went down. This is Inca's chance not only to redeem himself against Nestea and prove he can beat him, but to get sweet redemption and validation of his spot in Code S by getting out of this group.
Predictions and overall outlook
Everyone and their parents who don't even watch the GSL are picking Nestea and MC to get out of this group. In a perfect world, they should. We've had countless times in GSL history where MC and Nestea were supposed to meet again after facing off in GSL Open Season 2 (Nestea won 2-0), but it's just never happened for one reason or another. All the way back in the third Open Season, we were all prepared to see MC against Nestea in a rematch of their series from a season before. MC was the new bad boy on the block, seemingly doubling in power from the second to third season while Nestea was the God of Zerg and defending champion. Everyone wanted the final between the two, but Nestea got cheesed out by Rain and we got to see a Rain vs. MC finals instead. All statistics are pointing towards a winner's match between MC versus Nestea, but Starcraft II history does seem to enjoy playing cruel jokes on the fans.
Also, watch out for Virus versus MC. MC's PvT hasn't been at its strongest lately and Virus is a player who has shown that he can pull an upset or a dozen. I still think that Nestea and MC are getting out of this group, but NO ONE should be surprised if they somehow get out of the group without having their rematch that's been a year plus in the making.
Predictions:
Virus > MC Nestea > Inca MC > Inca Nestea > Virus MC > Virus
Nestea and MC advance.
Bañe-ata by shiroiusagi.
Writers: Fionn and Waxangel. Graphics and Art: Meko and shiroiusagi. Editor: Waxangel.
I swear if Nestea vs MC gets denied one more time -_-...
Forgot to mention their rematch getting screwed up by Hongun in July too, and Nestea not going to MLG into the group with MC because of a motorcycle accident.
I was actually really happy to see the BC transition in TvT, it feels like it had been lost in time and the last time I saw it in a GSL game was like 6 months ago. Seemed to work pretty well with the element of surprise
On April 14 2012 00:52 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: Going into this group, Nestea has to be considered the favorite. MC has also done well at foreign tournaments, but his PvT hasn't looked as strong recently, and if we were to see the two GSL champions battle it out after being teased and disappointed countless times in the past, you would have to give the advantage currently to Nestea who showed strong ZvP at IPL4.
Is that supposed to say PvT? If we're talking about MC vs Nestea... surely Protoss vs Terran is the wrong matchup? And if we're talking about PvZ, I'll let these do the talking:
Look at International. You read that right - sure, it might be against opponents like Idra and Symbol, but that's also Crazymoving, Stephano, Violet and Nerchio up there.
94%. Ninety-fucking-four percent. This from a guy who as of autumn last year had PvZ as his worst matchup and went out 0-2 against Sen in PPSL.
I think MC has somehow managed to sneak his way into unobtrusively having the best PvZ in the world, right under the noses of Genius and Squirtle.
For all the PvP stuff, bear in mind the series is likely to be even more all over the place than normal, because MC and InCa were teammates for a long time and practiced together a fair bit.
Basically, if MC and InCa do play, anyone claiming to be able to predict who wins is lying or stupid.
Predictions:
MC > Virus Nestea > Inca Nestea > MC Virus > Inca MC > Virus
On April 14 2012 00:57 StarscreamG1 wrote: MC > InCa ? Can't get the point. Only Oz has better PvP than InCa.
InCa PvP win/loss ratio is falsely inflated by all the DT coinflips. MC has more solid PvP.
If they are coinflips then Inca's W/L ratio should not be above 55%.
You don't know how probabilities work.
If enough game is played if his strategies are true coinflips his ratio will converge to 50%. But that is beside the point Inca as has solid PvP as far as any PvP goes.
On April 14 2012 01:24 Blurbs wrote: NO way Inca is gonna lose a pvp!
Doesnt matter MC won't have to play him (thank god since its random)
He will crush Virus and Nestea going 4-0 and first in group. Unfortuntaly there is many protoss in GSL this season so he;ll die somewhere along the way.
MC and Nestea are clear picks for me, but you never know... especially if Inca initiates the "let's make him believe I look like I want to fake not going DT's" mindgames.
On April 14 2012 01:24 Blurbs wrote: NO way Inca is gonna lose a pvp!
Doesnt matter MC won't have to play him (thank god since its random)
He will crush Virus and Nestea going 4-0 and first in group. Unfortuntaly there is many protoss in GSL this season so he;ll die somewhere along the way.
MC vs Nestea is anyone's guess, which is why it's been anticipated for soooo long. Since they're both in good shape right now and are both good in this matchup Nestea could just as easily 2-0 him.
On April 14 2012 00:52 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: Going into this group, Nestea has to be considered the favorite. MC has also done well at foreign tournaments, but his PvT hasn't looked as strong recently, and if we were to see the two GSL champions battle it out after being teased and disappointed countless times in the past, you would have to give the advantage currently to Nestea who showed strong ZvP at IPL4.
Is that supposed to say PvT? If we're talking about MC vs Nestea... surely Protoss vs Terran is the wrong matchup? And if we're talking about PvZ, I'll let these do the talking:
Look at International. You read that right - sure, it might be against opponents like Idra and Symbol, but that's also Crazymoving, Stephano, Violet and Nerchio up there.
94%. Ninety-fucking-four percent. This from a guy who as of autumn last year had PvZ as his worst matchup and went out 0-2 against Sen in PPSL.
I think MC has somehow managed to sneak his way into unobtrusively having the best PvZ in the world, right under the noses of Genius and Squirtle.
I belive PvT is right. They are saying who is favored for the group and since MC has had trouble with Terran they are giving Nestea the edge.
I really didn't expect NaNi to do it today, so that was a big surprise. i'm no fan, but I can do nothing but respect the dude when he does stuff like that.
Felt really good to see mvp play so good against Ryung. Been too loong since I saw something really impressive from him.
On April 14 2012 02:08 KristofferAG wrote: I really didn't expect NaNi to do it today, so that was a big surprise. i'm no fan, but I can do nothing but respect the dude when he does stuff like that.
Felt really good to see mvp play so good against Ryung. Been too loong since I saw something really impressive from him.
I agree on MVP. He looked SOOO bad in that first game that I thought he was done for.
On April 14 2012 00:57 StarscreamG1 wrote: MC > InCa ? Can't get the point. Only Oz has better PvP than InCa.
InCa PvP win/loss ratio is falsely inflated by all the DT coinflips. MC has more solid PvP.
If they are coinflips then Inca's W/L ratio should not be above 55%.
You don't know how probabilities work.
Does Inca go DT in every PvP? No. Regardless of whether he is good or not in PvP, his W/L ratio should not be higher/lower than a certain percent. 45% - 55% is a pretty reasonable set of parameters if he is depending on a "coinflip" build.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
Read the header for this thread on the front page for my reaction to this statement.
In other news, so glad Nani finally proved his point once and for all.
what point did he prove once and for all?
If you're referring to him actually winning in GSL, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's one day.
Well he's already proven long ago that he's capable of taking down S-class koreans in international events. Honestly, nani is supposed to be the favourite vs ryung and puzzle if it wasn't for the fact that he keeps choking hard in the GSL. Now he's shown that he can perform in the GSL as well without being too affected by nerves!
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
Read the header for this thread on the front page for my reaction to this statement.
In other news, so glad Nani finally proved his point once and for all.
what point did he prove once and for all?
If you're referring to him actually winning in GSL, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's one day.
He proved that he's Code S level, he proved he can beat Koreans on their home turf, he proved, basically, that he actually is a top level player. Seriously the guy has so many haters that I can't help but feel a little smug, and yeah it's one day but now the only argument for Nani not being top level (his record in Korea) is now null and void because he's one of the only foreigners to make it out of the Ro32.
On April 14 2012 04:01 robopork wrote: Okay, I mean no disrespect, but I'm getting REALLY tired of waking up to spoilers. Do the results have to be in the headline?
I want to thank wax for all these updates, i always have school in the morning and cant stay up to watch, its nice to always have team liquid to fall back on.
This group is hilarious, the fact that Virus and Inca are Code S is just insane. Hopefully, Nestea and MC crush through, but stranger things have happened, and I think we all secretly want Inca to win with DTs.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
Read the header for this thread on the front page for my reaction to this statement.
In other news, so glad Nani finally proved his point once and for all.
what point did he prove once and for all?
If you're referring to him actually winning in GSL, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's one day.
He proved that he's Code S level, he proved he can beat Koreans on their home turf, he proved, basically, that he actually is a top level player. Seriously the guy has so many haters that I can't help but feel a little smug, and yeah it's one day but now the only argument for Nani not being top level (his record in Korea) is now null and void because he's one of the only foreigners to make it out of the Ro32.
Here's the thing, he didn't earn his spot to code S legitimately. So yea he won today vs code s players, sure. Nobody denied he can't win vs code s players. But to say he proved he's Code S level by getting a welfare seed and winning one day to me doesnt' feel right.
If he continues winning in Code S and maintains Code S status for at least 1 season, then yea I'll say he's truly Code S.
Oh and you say just because he's a foreigner and he won 1 day with still a negative record in GSL, it's null and void (the argument you mentioned about him not being a top player)?
So he gets special treatment because hes a foreigner is what you're saying. No, let's see if he can continue this.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
Read the header for this thread on the front page for my reaction to this statement.
In other news, so glad Nani finally proved his point once and for all.
what point did he prove once and for all?
If you're referring to him actually winning in GSL, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's one day.
Well he's already proven long ago that he's capable of taking down S-class koreans in international events. Honestly, nani is supposed to be the favourite vs ryung and puzzle if it wasn't for the fact that he keeps choking hard in the GSL. Now he's shown that he can perform in the GSL as well without being too affected by nerves!
I agree with your point about beating puzzle/ryung.
Naniwa and Huk are very dangerous in PVP.
And I knew he'd in all likelihood beat ryung. Ryung is just a TVT specialist.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
Read the header for this thread on the front page for my reaction to this statement.
In other news, so glad Nani finally proved his point once and for all.
what point did he prove once and for all?
If you're referring to him actually winning in GSL, let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's one day.
He proved that he's Code S level, he proved he can beat Koreans on their home turf, he proved, basically, that he actually is a top level player. Seriously the guy has so many haters that I can't help but feel a little smug, and yeah it's one day but now the only argument for Nani not being top level (his record in Korea) is now null and void because he's one of the only foreigners to make it out of the Ro32.
Here's the thing, he didn't earn his spot to code S legitimately. So yea he won today vs code s players, sure. Nobody denied he can't win vs code s players. But to say he proved he's Code S level by getting a welfare seed and winning one day to me doesnt' feel right.
If he continues winning in Code S and maintains Code S status for at least 1 season, then yea I'll say he's truly Code S.
Oh and you say just because he's a foreigner and he won 1 day with still a negative record in GSL, it's null and void (the argument you mentioned about him not being a top player)?
So he gets special treatment because hes a foreigner is what you're saying. No, let's see if he can continue this.
I can't see how you can question being Code S level if you make it out of your group. If you're Ro16 you deserve to be their period, say what you like about Puzzle and Ryung they are Code S players and Nani beat them in the booth to make it to the next round.
I'm not saying he gets any special treatment? You might not like the seeding system but let's remember some of the other players who got Code S with those seeds; DRG? MC? MMA iirc?
On April 14 2012 00:57 StarscreamG1 wrote: MC > InCa ? Can't get the point. Only Oz has better PvP than InCa.
Huk has better PvP than Oz.
What are you basing this on? Only because Huk beat Oz at MLG and also beat Hero+Naniwa+Parting recently? Thats not enough. He's 14-13 in PvP in Korea. And had a bad run against european toss before MLG, losing 5 straight series (elfi, Naniwa, Titan, Seiplo, Hasuobs).
I would throw Squirtle into contention. Hes 18-6 in korean PvP, won 5 PvP at IPL4 against very good opponents.
The most interesting group coming up. I'm looking forward to it. Hoping our beloved champs, El MurloC and Professor Tea, will go through. GSL Code S is not the same without them.
I don't know if Waxangel is biased in this matter or he simply forgot to mention it, but after heavily hinting at a TvP imbalance in Protoss' favor in his Group H Recap, I would've expected him to follow up on the matter after the Group G games. Ryung lost badly to NaNiWa because his cheesy play didn't work out and because he got straight-up outplayed, but then Mvp crushed Puzzle with a different style that, frankly, made all the P>T imbalance talk look a bit silly.
He even mentions Group G in his Group H recap and how it will be interesting to see how that'll go TvP-wise, so it's a bit disappointing to see him forget the whole issue in this recap.
On April 14 2012 00:57 StarscreamG1 wrote: MC > InCa ? Can't get the point. Only Oz has better PvP than InCa.
InCa PvP win/loss ratio is falsely inflated by all the DT coinflips. MC has more solid PvP.
If they are coinflips then Inca's W/L ratio should not be above 55%.
You don't know how probabilities work.
If inCa has more coin flips, they will serve to bring him closer to 50%. That is how probability works, the larger the sample size to closer the result to 50%. So it is actually more likely for MC, who supposedly has less DT coin flips to have incorrect value as the smaller the sample size, the more aberration.
Wow Naniwa, was not expecting that. Reinforces my opinion that the only foreigners of note are Nani, Huk, and Stephano.
Idra doesn't even come close. All he's good at is whining and trash talking. Maybe if he spent that time getting better, he would actually have notable results.
On April 14 2012 05:37 fishjie wrote: Wow Naniwa, was not expecting that. Reinforces my opinion that the only foreigners of note are Nani, Huk, and Stephano.
Idra doesn't even come close. All he's good at is whining and trash talking. Maybe if he spent that time getting better, he would actually have notable results.
Haha, that's a bit harsh on IdrA, but I agree- NaNiWa, HuK and Stephano are easily the best non-koreans at Starcraft 2 at the moment. After them, I think I'd probably pick either Ret, Sheth or ThorZaIN; IdrA is pretty obviously not in the foreigner top 5 right now.
It's nice to see Naniwa made it out of the group... but really? 'Haters gonna hate'? And people saying he 'proved himself like no foreigner before him'?
It's one set with the best matchups he could possibly have. PvP which we all know and love... and PvT vs a bad TvP player and the current meta. Let's see him keep it up before overreacting? Happy to see him make it though especially considering what happened in Season 1.
On April 14 2012 06:28 oxxo wrote: It's nice to see Naniwa made it out of the group... but really? 'Haters gonna hate'? And people saying he 'proved himself like no foreigner before him'?
It's one set with the best matchups he could possibly have. PvP which we all know and love... and PvT vs a bad TvP player and the current meta. Let's see him keep it up before overreacting? Happy to see him make it though especially considering what happened in Season 1.
Who is overreacting? We are all happy that Nani did well in GSL (for the first time). We also all know that the matchups were favorable, that was the reason some people gave him a chance after all.
I hate it when a player does well and someone instantly pulls out the 'overhype' card.
There were quite some haters who said Nani would get smashed again. And that are often the same people who now say 'well he had easy matchups' instead of admitting that they underestimated Naniwa. So yeah, haters gonna hate. (not implying this on you, you seem to be happy about it)
Edit: But I agree, you shouldn't choose 'Haters gonna hate' as a headline.
On April 14 2012 06:28 oxxo wrote: It's nice to see Naniwa made it out of the group... but really? 'Haters gonna hate'? And people saying he 'proved himself like no foreigner before him'?
It's one set with the best matchups he could possibly have. PvP which we all know and love... and PvT vs a bad TvP player and the current meta. Let's see him keep it up before overreacting? Happy to see him make it though especially considering what happened in Season 1.
you are right, any protoss advancing is not good, because according to you pvz is the only skilled match up for them. I love when people say said terran has a bad tvp, implying any terran has a good tvp.
On April 14 2012 06:28 oxxo wrote: It's nice to see Naniwa made it out of the group... but really? 'Haters gonna hate'? And people saying he 'proved himself like no foreigner before him'?
It's one set with the best matchups he could possibly have. PvP which we all know and love... and PvT vs a bad TvP player and the current meta. Let's see him keep it up before overreacting? Happy to see him make it though especially considering what happened in Season 1.
The current meta is with over 20% in the favor of terran and PvP is not luck based if you understand it.
On April 14 2012 06:28 oxxo wrote: It's nice to see Naniwa made it out of the group... but really? 'Haters gonna hate'? And people saying he 'proved himself like no foreigner before him'?
It's one set with the best matchups he could possibly have. PvP which we all know and love... and PvT vs a bad TvP player and the current meta. Let's see him keep it up before overreacting? Happy to see him make it though especially considering what happened in Season 1.
you are right, any protoss advancing is not good, because according to you pvz is the only skilled match up for them. I love when people say said terran has a bad tvp, implying any terran has a good tvp.
Said Terran's TvP is notoriously bad, and has been since when TvP was heavily Terran favoured.
And yes. There are Terran's with good TvP - like Polt and MKP. Are there players who dominate in their TvP matchup? No, and I don't see why people expect there to be.
I'm happy for Naniwa, its nice to see foreigners getting results, especially in the GSL.
I'm glad Gom gave him another chance, though I still want to see a foreigner make it to code-s starting in the code-a qualifiers, instead of just being handed a spot.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
I'm not holding out for a "great white hope". While most good foreigners are white (I think?), I'd be just as happy if a guy like Stephano ends up being the "great non-korean hope" :p
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
The West does. Everyone I know is on something from thier psychiatrist. My doctor said they should put prozac in the water supply.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
The West does. Everyone I know is on something from thier psychiatrist.
I guess it may vary between countries? In my close family (parents, siblings) only one person is on permanent medication for psychological disorders (or whatever the proper term for that is), and among my friends, no one is... though one of them probably should be.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
The West does. Everyone I know is on something from thier psychiatrist.
I guess it may vary between countries? In my close family (parents, siblings) only one person is on permanent medication for psychological disorders (or whatever the proper term for that is), and among my friends, no one is... though one of them probably should be.
It was a little hyperbole but still rings true IMO we are a little off compared to disiplined/polite Koreans.
On April 14 2012 05:37 fishjie wrote: Wow Naniwa, was not expecting that. Reinforces my opinion that the only foreigners of note are Nani, Huk, and Stephano.
Idra doesn't even come close. All he's good at is whining and trash talking. Maybe if he spent that time getting better, he would actually have notable results.
Haha, that's a bit harsh on IdrA, but I agree- NaNiWa, HuK and Stephano are easily the best non-koreans at Starcraft 2 at the moment. After them, I think I'd probably pick either Ret, Sheth or ThorZaIN; IdrA is pretty obviously not in the foreigner top 5 right now.
IdrA isn't even in top 10 if you ask me lol.
Gratz to Nani, played so so well last night, very calm and patient.
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
Agree, but I think Stephano is clear nr 1 and I believe every korean would agree. Watching him play is such a treat, like PartinG, Polt and... others Their play feels more versatile and modern... and more entertaining than NaNiWa and Huk.
On April 14 2012 08:05 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I dont think MC is gonna beat Inca... even the critics of Inca admitted his PvP was beautiful. But times change, so we'll see!
If MC faces InCa it's most likely a loss for MC. Which is why it's of utmost importance that he beats virus. Most likely scenario is that NesTea will beat InCa in their match, so if MC loses to Virus, he's extremely likely to fall to Code A.
On April 14 2012 08:05 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I dont think MC is gonna beat Inca... even the critics of Inca admitted his PvP was beautiful. But times change, so we'll see!
Yeah but that was ages ago that he played all those glorious PvPs, that was back in the days when in PvP if you expanded then you were just dead. In some PvPs nowadays we are even seeing third bases being taken!
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
The West does. Everyone I know is on something from thier psychiatrist.
I guess it may vary between countries? In my close family (parents, siblings) only one person is on permanent medication for psychological disorders (or whatever the proper term for that is), and among my friends, no one is... though one of them probably should be.
It was a little hyperbole but still rings true IMO we are a little off compared to disiplined/polite Koreans.
Yeah, one of the countries with the highest sucicide rate in the world is doing great when it comes to psychiatric care.
Naniwa looked bad in prior GSLs because he was nervous. I don't think anyone can say he lacks the skill to compete and this proves that the seeds are a good idea. In the short run they will create more competition in foriegn tournaments and in the long run I think the competition in the GSL will benefit from seeds as well.
As for bad manners drama is a part of our culture. Does that make us bad? We are just different. I know Naniwa has done some things that are beyond bad manners but I think these wins today show a lot on how he has matured.
On April 14 2012 08:05 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I dont think MC is gonna beat Inca... even the critics of Inca admitted his PvP was beautiful. But times change, so we'll see!
Yeah but that was ages ago that he played all those glorious PvPs, that was back in the days when in PvP if you expanded then you were just dead. In some PvPs nowadays we are even seeing third bases being taken!
Exactly, Inca build his PvP reputation on creative one-base playing and not being afraid to cheese like his life depended on it (proxy gates, cannon rushes, dts, ect).
Once you get over that initial first impression, Inca is 5-5 over his last 10 PvPs losing to Squirtel and Oz in Bo3s.
Not to mention the only time he played MC he lost pretty handily (although I thought he played really scared).
On April 14 2012 02:25 DreadKnight wrote: Shame that our foreigner hope is honestly such an ass...
User was warned for this post
Between him and Idra the foreigners that represent in GSL make us look like we all have borderline personality disorders =/ I'd pretty much rather have anyone else as the "great white hope".
and since naniwa himself is a hater i guess haters gun hate lolrite? maybe we need an equally obtuse co-headline like "Euros gonna overhype"
The West does. Everyone I know is on something from thier psychiatrist.
I guess it may vary between countries? In my close family (parents, siblings) only one person is on permanent medication for psychological disorders (or whatever the proper term for that is), and among my friends, no one is... though one of them probably should be.
It was a little hyperbole but still rings true IMO we are a little off compared to disiplined/polite Koreans.
Yeah, one of the countries with the highest sucicide rate in the world is doing great when it comes to psychiatric care.
Koreans are a lil off to me. Never seem to have any fun if I can't dick around a lil. polite/disiplined seems fake to me
Just wanted to pop in here and say Nani looks like Jack Nicholson from the Shining in that pic. Also grats on ro16, you deserve it.
Also what exactly do people expect major esports news sites like TL to do to avoid "spoilers". Wait till 6 months after an even to cover it? Plaster spoiler warnings all over the place? Just don't provide coverage at all because some people can't put 2 and 2 together?
On April 14 2012 11:25 battleraper wrote: thanks for the obvious spoiler roflmao "STAY AWAY FROM TEAMLIQUID TIL' YOU'VE SEEN THE FUCKING MATCH THEN" well FUCK YOU
Wonder how long this is going to keep going on for, do people really only visit the site once every two months and not notice the changes and the hide spoilers button?
On April 14 2012 11:25 battleraper wrote: thanks for the obvious spoiler roflmao "STAY AWAY FROM TEAMLIQUID TIL' YOU'VE SEEN THE FUCKING MATCH THEN" well FUCK YOU
Wonder how long this is going to keep going on for, do people really only visit the site once every two months and not notice the changes and the hide spoilers button?
THANKS FOR THE HEAD UP BRO, A LITTLE BIT TOO LATE THOUGH. YOU HAVE MY ETERNAL GRATITUDE
PS: WHERE IS THIS FUCKING HIDE SPOILERS BUTTON YOU SPEAK OFF?
EDIT: roflmao found it
EDIT 2: have to say though that fucking button wasnt bursting out visible fucking solarbeams
On April 14 2012 11:25 battleraper wrote: thanks for the obvious spoiler roflmao "STAY AWAY FROM TEAMLIQUID TIL' YOU'VE SEEN THE FUCKING MATCH THEN" well FUCK YOU
Wonder how long this is going to keep going on for, do people really only visit the site once every two months and not notice the changes and the hide spoilers button?
THANKS FOR THE HEAD UP BRO, A LITTLE BIT TOO LATE THOUGH. YOU HAVE MY ETERNAL GRATITUDE
PS: WHERE IS THIS FUCKING HIDE SPOILERS BUTTON YOU SPEAK OFF?
EDIT: roflmao found it
EDIT 2: have to say though that fucking button wasnt bursting out visible fucking solarbeams
Glad to be of assistance.
But I must ask, did you not notice the live coverage of every other day of Code S or any of the major tournaments on the front page?
I mean why would you assume they would make an exception for one day?
On April 14 2012 11:25 battleraper wrote: thanks for the obvious spoiler roflmao "STAY AWAY FROM TEAMLIQUID TIL' YOU'VE SEEN THE FUCKING MATCH THEN" well FUCK YOU
Wonder how long this is going to keep going on for, do people really only visit the site once every two months and not notice the changes and the hide spoilers button?
THANKS FOR THE HEAD UP BRO, A LITTLE BIT TOO LATE THOUGH. YOU HAVE MY ETERNAL GRATITUDE
PS: WHERE IS THIS FUCKING HIDE SPOILERS BUTTON YOU SPEAK OFF?
EDIT: roflmao found it
EDIT 2: have to say though that fucking button wasnt bursting out visible fucking solarbeams
Glad to be of assistance.
But I must ask, did you not notice the live coverage of every other day of Code S or any of the major tournaments on the front page?
I mean why would you assume they would make an exception for one day?
I've been spoiled all week. It's in my fucking blood to type in teamliquid in my morning routine. Once I'm reading the front page I realize what the fuck I'm doing... At least the future is safe... for now.
though I did enjoy naniwas games last night, the amount of pvt i am going to watch in the ro16 is going to make me a really sad panda =(. on that note, pvt with templars is infinitely more exciting than pvt with colo
On April 14 2012 13:59 beatitudes wrote: though I did enjoy naniwas games last night, the amount of pvt i am going to watch in the ro16 is going to make me a really sad panda =(. on a side note, pvt with templars is infinitely more exciting than pvt with colo
We just need to clone Parting and have him play every Terran.
Still hate Naniwa, but I'm glad TeamLiquid updates with photos and shit the day after now. Makes it feel like a legit competition when I can wake up, look at TeamLiquid and see Naniwa's mother fucking face.... and realize all of my hopes and dreams were crushed last night. At least MVP made it through... But why have the Koreans failed me this time? WHYYYY?!!!?!?!?!?
Anyway, GG Naniwa. I hope you get Leenock's group and he crushes you. Also, the point I was getting at above was that it's like ESPN's website where they update instantly after something happens, instead of waiting not to spoil it for those who didn't watch live.
To bad Nestea messed up his games against MC. But I am glad MC got through. On the other hand I am sad that Virus got through. I rather see Nestea go through to the next round. But the way Nestea is playing he doesn't deserve to go through. I am really sad right now. Crying fake tears in my little room here because he is out again early in the GSL. He must not be focussed enough or he thinks he earned enough money now and he isn't that motivated. Well I don't really know. Team IM already lost MVP and not Nestea. And Losira isn't doing very well also. What is happening to this team. The same with SlayerS. Their players lost in the round of 32. How is that possible. I really don't understand. They all were like the best in the world. Did everybody else got lots better or what is the deal here.
The thing is this: MVP made it through this group through doing strategies his opponents couldn't handle. Put MKP and Parting against MVP, and he's done. The only way for him to get through this gsl to finals is luck.
Naniwa looked great. I have this friend that i have played shit tons of smash broa brawl and mario power tennis with; we both kick ass at thos games. Naniwa's play looked like that. It was clearly his own style tested from a friendly ricalry. His PvT is pretty good, like maybe as good as Oz, but def not up to par with parting. Overall, i'm impressed, he's the kind of player i would like to be. However, once a game is evetually goin to be his he stops microing. Fix this nao
On April 14 2012 14:15 hoby2000 wrote: Still hate Naniwa, but I'm glad TeamLiquid updates with photos and shit the day after now. Makes it feel like a legit competition when I can wake up, look at TeamLiquid and see Naniwa's mother fucking face.... and realize all of my hopes and dreams were crushed last night. At least MVP made it through... But why have the Koreans failed me this time? WHYYYY?!!!?!?!?!?
Anyway, GG Naniwa. I hope you get Leenock's group and he crushes you. Also, the point I was getting at above was that it's like ESPN's website where they update instantly after something happens, instead of waiting not to spoil it for those who didn't watch live.
Read the headline on the frontpage for this thread. Just saying.
EPT
Puzzle <ESV Ohana RE> 
Ryung <Dual Sight 1.1> ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/virusisavirus.jpg)
IMNesTea. Just when you thought it was safe to give DongRaeGu the title of best Zerg and maybe even best player in the world, he goes off and loses to MarineKing twice in two big finals and then follows it up with an extremely disappointing display in the first round of Code S. Nestea, who people thought was finally going to falter due to his age and the young players catching up to his skill, has pretty much shut everyone up by going to Las Vegas, kicking ass, and coming home with a third place finish. After crushing everyone in the first two days, Nestea did show some fatigue on Championship Sunday and wasn't able to overcome Alive and Squirtle after beating the two earlier in the tournament. ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/HawaiianPig/GSL/zergbongfiction.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/drg_banelingbust.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OQX0b.jpg)
My doctor said they should put prozac in the water supply.![[image loading]](http://imgnews.naver.com/image/dailyesports/2010/11/19/20101119_bda0610c28469b3727ab0ab5016921e9.jpg)
