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On January 01 2012 19:26 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 19:21 Talin wrote:On January 01 2012 19:07 Xeris wrote:
TL giving itself team of the year award based on: a Ro4 (not a championship) by Jinro, and 2 championships won by HuK, who is on EG.
Mouz has won // placed top 3 in basically every single team event in 2011. They got 2nd in IPL Team Arena Challenge (only foreign team to beat Koreans?), 2 time EG Masters Cup winner, 3rd GCPL Season 2.
Even EG hasn't finished higher than 4th in its own team league, Liquid couldn't even get higher than 4th in either GCPL Season 1 or 2.
Not to mention Mouz has: Thorzain and MaNa, who both have numerous podium placements. MorroW and HasuObs are also widely considered top foreigners. How can Mouz be ignored? Because they're not as popular and don't have as good marketing?
If there is a tie - it should be between Mouz and EG , Liquid has no place there , no offense ... Both those wins by Huk AND, if we're being honest MLG Orlando as well, belong to Liquid (MLG Orlando happened like a few weeks after the switch, while Huk was still in oGs house, and the only thing EG had to do with that win was basically putting him on a plane to get there). Implying that Huk's wins don't count because EG bought him off later on is ridiculous, especially in a yearly awards kind of thing. It's not like Mouz won Proleague. All "team leagues" in 2011 were online clan war leagues with low to mediocre prize money (when spread over the entire team). Teams lost because of lack of interest/preparation, or even players to play every game out. Back to back GSL semifinals alone carry more weight than any of those. They belong to the player, actually -- because it's an individual event. If you want to look at best team, look at team events, otherwise don't count individual titles as a team accomplishment O_O
Well then every game of Starcraft is an individual event in and of itself, except the 2v2 ones. It's semantics. Starcraft is an individual game, but all the players are where they are based on the practice environment, support and conditions provided for by their teams. In this case "which team has the most successful players overall" is the criteria that applies imo.
Besides, if we did look at teamleagues, it wouldn't be a tie between Mouz and EG as you suggested, it would be Mouz winning by far with Empire and Dignitas being the other two nominees. Moreover, I recall oGsTL winning some matches in GSTL, which is the only real live team league. The original FXO should be a nominee as well for taking down IM.
Until we have a Proleague-like competition in the west, team leagues, as fun as they may be, can not measure up to premier tournaments that all the top players actually practice for and focus on.
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On January 01 2012 19:07 Xeris wrote:
TL giving itself team of the year award based on: a Ro4 (not a championship) by Jinro, and 2 championships won by HuK, who is on EG.
Mouz has won // placed top 3 in basically every single team event in 2011. They got 2nd in IPL Team Arena Challenge (only foreign team to beat Koreans?), 2 time EG Masters Cup winner, 3rd GCPL Season 2.
Even EG hasn't finished higher than 4th in its own team league, Liquid couldn't even get higher than 4th in either GCPL Season 1 or 2.
Not to mention Mouz has: Thorzain and MaNa, who both have numerous podium placements. MorroW and HasuObs are also widely considered top foreigners. How can Mouz be ignored? Because they're not as popular and don't have as good marketing?
If there is a tie - it should be between Mouz and EG , Liquid has no place there , no offense ...
Huk won dreamhack summer and.homestory cup while he was on.Liquid. The accolades should stay with the team.he won the championship on. It is like saying the six championship Michael Jordan with the Chicago Bulls should be considered the washongton wizard's championships because that was the last team Jordan played on. The championshops stays with the team and doesn't get transferred because the person moved to another organization.
It's been the community consensus for a top 4 (top 8 debatable) in GSL for a foreigner is on par with winning a western championship if not better.
Mouz has only won a single individual championship in 2011, TSL3. Until tuey can demonstrate that they can win multiple major individual championships prwferably LANs, I don't they deserve to be team of the year.
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On January 01 2012 14:56 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 14:51 Cynthesis wrote:On January 01 2012 14:36 Bumblebee wrote:On January 01 2012 14:34 Cynthesis wrote:
I disagree with the tie for team of the year. EG has the most golds out of any foreigner team (and in my personal opinion) the better line up. But I respect your opionon. They do? Please line it up for me. EG - Axslav, Demuslim, Idra, Incontrol, Huk, Machine, Puma, StrifeCro, JYP Liquid - Tyler, TLO, Jinro, Haypro, Ret, Sheth, Hero, Zenio 2011 1st Places Liquid (3) Ret Assembly Winter, Battle.net European Invitational Hero - Dreamhack Winter EG (7) Idra - IPL 1, IEM China Huk - Dreamhack Summer, MLG Orlando Puma - NASL 1, 2, IEM Cologne Do you think its fair to award results to players on teams when they weren't on that team :-) ?
The original comment was about who has the best lineup. Has, not had. It might be debatable who had a better year, but it's not even close who has the best lineup right now.
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I love that diplomatical tie between TL and EG :D
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Snute \o/. One error tho, Snute thinks that ZvZ is his worst MU. It's only the early ling/bling in which he is almost insanly good.
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SKorea cyber bullying is a very serious issue, due to the extreme they go to. From joining an Anti-Fan Club to having a petition stating the person should commit suicide that have up 100,000 unique vote and signatures.
Please refrain from irresponsibly writing about it, or better yet never mention at all.
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Fantastic write up, made for a great read. Amazing year for esports!
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HuK deserves this so much, such a hard worker and talented player!
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On January 01 2012 19:33 ptbl wrote:Mouz has only won a single individual championship in 2011, TSL3. Until tuey can demonstrate that they can win multiple major individual championships prwferably LANs, I don't they deserve to be team of the year.
I dont think only 1st places are best indicator (HuK in most cases...), if we talk about teams?
top3 finishes would be better imo. Anyway those team tourneys held players like Hero, Ret, Sheth, Puma, Idra and HuK(2011 Evil Geniuses Masters Cup Season VI) so i dont think teams were not that serious about it...
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At least mouz is a foreign team...
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it's nice to see these actually are 2011 year awards and not last-3-months-of-a-year awards, as they usually tend to be. Still think TL should win the best team though!
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On January 01 2012 20:07 ondik wrote:
it's nice to see these actually are 2011 year awards and not last-3-months-of-a-year awards, as they usually tend to be. Still think TL should win the best team though!
depends... in a best site category i definately agree though!
anyway, great read.
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EG/TL winning foreign team of the year is a bit of a joke, especially TL they did nothing on the team game scene apart from lose :/. Plus half the accolades you attributed to them were won by non foreign members! pfft.
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Brilliant!
Great read from start to finish.
I liked the worst drama winner: NOBODY
But I can't help but feel that we, the fans, won. All the drama certainly made for entertaining lunchtime discussions put it that way. Here's hoping for more of the same next year!
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Hungary79 Posts
Great article, but there should be a "best caster(s)" award too...
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Awesome read! Thanks guys - just realized I turned one year old as a TL member yesterday, woow!
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Braavos36402 Posts
On January 01 2012 20:03 mijagi182 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 19:33 ptbl wrote:Mouz has only won a single individual championship in 2011, TSL3. Until tuey can demonstrate that they can win multiple major individual championships prwferably LANs, I don't they deserve to be team of the year. I dont think only 1st places are best indicator (HuK in most cases...), if we talk about teams? top3 finishes would be better imo. Anyway those team tourneys held players like Hero, Ret, Sheth, Puma, Idra and HuK(2011 Evil Geniuses Masters Cup Season VI) so i dont think teams were not that serious about it...
Also people tend to forget that Thorzain played 90% of the TSL under Prae and only transferred to Mouz right before the final. This is not to say Mouz isn't a great team, they obviously are. Just correcting a fact that influences how much of the TSL3 title "belongs" to a certain team flag, since the criteria used by writers included individual events.
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United States33706 Posts
On January 01 2012 20:17 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 20:03 mijagi182 wrote:On January 01 2012 19:33 ptbl wrote:Mouz has only won a single individual championship in 2011, TSL3. Until tuey can demonstrate that they can win multiple major individual championships prwferably LANs, I don't they deserve to be team of the year. I dont think only 1st places are best indicator (HuK in most cases...), if we talk about teams? top3 finishes would be better imo. Anyway those team tourneys held players like Hero, Ret, Sheth, Puma, Idra and HuK(2011 Evil Geniuses Masters Cup Season VI) so i dont think teams were not that serious about it... Also people tend to forget that Thorzain played 90% of the TSL under Prae and only transferred to Mouz right before the final. This is not to say Mouz isn't a great team, they obviously are. Just correcting a fact that influences how much of the TSL3 title "belongs" to a certain team flag, since the criteria used by writers included individual events.
Actually, TL is taking partial credit for ThorZaIN's TSL3 victory, as he prepared for the final at our office. So the Liquid 2011 Achievement list is more like this:
Assembly Winter 1st
Blizzcon EU 1st
Blizzcon US 2nd
DreamHack Winter 1st
DreamHack Summer 1st
DreamHack Winter Top 4
HomeStoryCup 3 1st
GSL Code S RO4
NASL S2 2nd
+ 3.7% of TSL3 Championship
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Thanks for the writeup guys! Read it all and enjoyed it all.
Of course, awards are subjective. Except the MVP award for best player of the year, that is pretty goddam obvious. That said I at least agree with most of the awards on some level.
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Fun read  Thanks TL!
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EPT
