You've probably noticed that TeamLiquid.net looks a bit different. The widened site layout and new ads pop out immediately, but we have also made other significant changes to the site. Here are the changes that were made in the last major update.
1. Right Sidebar Customization 2. Site Width and Advertisements 3. Featured Stream Changes
Customization
For a long time, we have had internal discussions on how to best accommodate TeamLiquid.net's rapidly growing user base, who vary greatly in their tastes and how they use the website. We decided to begin by adding customization to TL, and today we're introducing the first part of this project: Right sidebar customization.
You can access the customization menu from the bottom of the right sidebar (beneath TLPD), or from your profile.
All the options are fairly straight forward. Here's a brief introduction, in order of top to bottom on the sidebar.
Calendar The event calendar can be filtered by game category. For example, you can set your calendar to show only SC2 or BW events.
Live Streams Filtering has also been added to the stream list. You can choose which streams will appear on your list, depending on the game the streamer plays, whether the streamer is a professional player or a non-pro personality (more on this below in the Featured Stream section), and by the Starcraft race the streamer plays.
Additionally, you can now group streams by game, and turn on race icons for Starcraft streams.
Finally, the streams can be ordered depending on multiple criteria including stream name, game type, and viewer count.
TLPD The default database for searches can be selected (SC2 Korea, SC2 International, BW Korea, BW International). ELO ranking display can be turned on or off for both Starcraft II and Brood War.
Liquipedia The default database for searches can be selected (SC2, BW).
Site Width and Advertisements
Alongside adding customization options to the sidebars, we have also been working hard on finding new ways to create revenue. One of the main revenue sources for TL is the 468x60 top banner. However, this old size banner is 10 years old and is not relevant for most modern ad agencies. We have replaced it with a standard leaderboard sized banner, the same size that accounts for the majority of ad income for sites everywhere. This should allow us to generate considerably more ad revenue.
To accommodate this change, we have decided to move to a wider TL body that will allow us to have the leaderboard size ad on top. You may have seen leaderboard size ads already in our stream section and on the Liquipedia pages; now they will now appear throughout the site.
Additionally, we have also introduced new advertisements. At the top-right there will be a square ad only visible to visitors that arrive at TeamLiquid directly from a Google search. The top-right ad is partially a test to see how much search engine traffic might contribute to our income, and we'll decide on further options once we have more information. At the bottom right there is a skyscraper ad visible to everyone.
We recognize that these changes mean more ads. However, we believe it is necessary to optimize our revenue from ads while still maintaining a respectable and non-intrusive design. With the leaderboard on top and the skyscraper to the bottom-right for our regular visitors we believe that we can increase our income while maintaining a respectable site layout.
We believe these changes allow TL to pursue its goals and grow as an organization, and we hope you understand why they are necessary.
We have also revamped the featured streams section of the website. There will be two categories of featured streams, "Players" and "Other". "Players" will be professional players, while the "Other" category will have casters, personalities, etc.
We've re-evaluated our standards for featuring and decided on a number of factors that will determine a stream's featured status:
"Players" Category 1. High skill level / tournament results 2. High average viewer count 3. Notability / contribution 4. Activity
A stream does not necessarily have to possess all of the listed attributes. For example, Destiny might not have the best tournament results, but his average viewer count is high enough to justify staying featured. In another example, a player like dignitas.Killer may not average many viewers but his skill level and notability (good tournament performances in recent months, Dignitas member) justifies a position as well.
Also, we feel that long time veterans and contributors to the TL community should get more leniency on these standards, as we obviously wish to encourage player-fan interaction through the TL forums.
"Other" Category 1. Notability 2. Content (ie not just rebroadcasts, or pre-event viewer building)
De-featuring Player Streams
Accordingly, we have reviewed the previously featured streams and de-featured all those that did not meet these standards. Everyone in this list has been de-featured for a combination of reasons, including: not enough average viewers, not enough activity, or not enough achievements / notability.
We have also de-featured team streams as they were all receiving very few viewers. This was because almost all players who would draw lots of viewers on a team stream already have their own personal featured stream. We see the featured stream section as a list of notable, quality streamers – not as a vehicle to make players more popular.
Similarly, we will be de-featuring organizations that do not produce large amounts of non-calendared content. This is because they almost always attach themselves to events on the calendar. For example, we have de-featured dreamhackTV, as they do not produce content outside of the actual DreamHack events, which are always on the calendar.
We will be reviewing featured streams every few months, and will be adding and removing featured streams accordingly. Just because a player was removed at this time does not mean he will never be added again.
The best way to become featured is to gain viewers, win tournaments, or a combination of both. Again, we understand it is difficult to "gain viewers" without being featured, but we feel that featured status is something that recognizes popular and skilled players, not a vehicle to make players popular or skilled.
For example, we are featuring It's Gosu's Gatored for the next month or so due to his results at IEM New York (beat coLMVP_DRG 2-1 in groups, 3-0 vs oGsTOP in the RO8). If he can maintain a high number of viewers and continue having good results, he will remain featured.
Similarly, we would automatically feature any players that qualified for the current Code A season if they requested it.
If you'd like to discuss this, check out the Featured Stream Thread in Website Feedback.
What's Next?
We will be working on further customization in the future. One of our main goals is to make it possible to remove entire sections of the left sidebar.
We consider the forums a vital part of our site – and we're open to adding more sub-categories in the future – they have grown so large that the left sidebar has turned into an enormous list. With this in mind, we feel that it is important to give people the option to remove some of the forums or other content from the left sidebar. In addition to the current drop-down menus for the individual forums, and we plan to introduce the ability to remove entire section completely.
Why are Onemoregame. and Nasl.tv being defeatured? Surely they have pretty regular broadcasts? But MLG.tv hasn't been defeatured? Seems weird to me. Like the changes though/
On November 01 2011 17:26 Savern101 wrote: Why are Onemoregame. and Nasl.tv being defeatured? Surely they have pretty regular broadcasts? But MLG.tv hasn't been defeatured? Seems weird to me. Like the changes though/
Probably because there isn't that much that they're going to stream outside of their scheduled broadcasts which are already going to be listed on the events, while mlg.tv regularly has random game streams outside of their shows that get streamed.
On November 01 2011 17:26 Savern101 wrote: Why are Onemoregame. and Nasl.tv being defeatured? Surely they have pretty regular broadcasts? But MLG.tv hasn't been defeatured? Seems weird to me. Like the changes though/
It is explained in the reasons, as MLG_Live produces regular non-calendar content while OMG and NASL only associate with Calendar events.
On November 01 2011 17:26 Savern101 wrote: Why are Onemoregame. and Nasl.tv being defeatured? Surely they have pretty regular broadcasts? But MLG.tv hasn't been defeatured? Seems weird to me. Like the changes though/
As explained above, these streams have almost all of their events featured. Redundancy.
Love the customisable-ness of the right sidebar. Sick changes, looking forward to seeing what else is in store. Also, huehuehuehuehue at Bisu being ranked #1 in TLPD
This wide screen is sure going to take some getting use to.
Quick question though, is there a way to reduce the delay when opening up a new thread? Like I still get the previous width, and it then stretches quickly afterwords. It's not a large problem, but it sure keeps happening alot T.T;;.
Other than that, its awesome to see TL changing, and I can't wait till the store tells me there are new jerseys available!
Edit: On a related note, I can now see more blog entries! Relationship blogs ftw!
awesome changes :-) although a few of the player defeatures and non-defeatures seem strange to me, but its not that difficult to just open the non-featured list to find em :-)
What happened to the Takesen stream? It used to be featured, but since Take switched to twitch.tv it doesn't appear anywhere. It's neither on the featured nor defeatured list.
I like how the main reading panel has been widened. Less scrolling and easier reading ftw however still waiting for sc2 team logos in signature to be implemented
I can imagine afew pros are going to be pretty upset by this. But it's probably a good thing in the long run. Going to be really hard to get yourself featured now.
On November 01 2011 17:30 orz.fail wrote: This wide screen is sure going to take some getting use to.
Quick question though, is there a way to reduce the delay when opening up a new thread? Like I still get the previous width, and it then stretches quickly afterwords. It's not a large problem, but it sure keeps happening alot T.T;;.
Other than that, its awesome to see TL changing, and I can't wait till the store tells me there are new jerseys available!
Edit: On a related note, I can now see more blog entries! Relationship blogs ftw!
Yeah I get a slightly annoying widening of the site whenever a new page loads.
The customization is nice. I actually like the new banner ad more, the old one looked unusually small and didn't fit with the layout very well. The new ad banner actually fits the layout.
Looks great! Looking forward to even more customization. A couple of my favs got removed but hopefully less featured players will make people dig a little more and discover new streams to watch
Just a quick question: would it be possible to add a 'featured' section for all the spotlighted stuff somewhere on the left? That would be really cool :D
Only problem I have is iNkA being defeatured. does he not stream enough? just curious cause with the new QXG and IM partnership id be surpised if his viewer count isnt skyrocketing especially with all the attention from testing with destiny for hours at a time on destiny's stream.
Yikes, the wider page fucks with my head cause I default sized my browser windows to TL's old size lol. Will have to take some getting used to. Love the customization options though!
yay! now i can change back TLPD to broodwar! that was the most important thing for me but thanks so much for all the other changes! Also im really happy that TL is back up... Those few hours were traumatizing.
Really wish there was a divider between SC2 and BW ELO rankings (when showing both), instead of it kind of merging together. Otherwise the new features are great!
So is anyone else noticing a distinct lag as a new ad banner loads? I had to turn adblock on because everytime I clicked to go to the next page in a thread the browser would stutter trying to load the new ad....
I don't mind having adblock off for a site like TL but not if it's going to make it lag like that.
This is absolutely awesome site updates! More customization but keeping the tl-look (i still dislike the looknfeel of the softish web2.0ish menubar under the banner, but come to terms with the changing of the banner itself).
Really nice to see a reevaluation of the featured streamers.
Oh! Lots of players I recognize in the defeatured, but I feel they were all pretty much justified yeah.
regarding mouz.max though, I'm fairly sure that that's the stream mouzKaelaris (caster for Mouz) uses to stream events? I don't know, it's listed as "mousesports.tv" but when you go to the stream it says Mouz.max in the top bar. In that case, will kaelaris still be featured in the "others" section?
I like the changes! Wish not all those streams were getting defeatured but I understand why, and I really like the new wide layout! I'll miss the old style but the new wide boxes will make reading a lot easier
Thank you for the widened website, this will fit a lot better in my 1980 monitor. Thank you for keeping the same site, just a bit better. Lot's of love for the biggest and the most awesome community in the world.
On November 01 2011 17:50 marttorn wrote: Oh! Lots of players I recognize in the defeatured, but I feel they were all pretty much justified yeah.
regarding mouz.max though, I'm fairly sure that that's the stream mouzKaelaris (caster for Mouz) uses to stream events? I don't know, it's listed as "mousesports.tv" but when you go to the stream it says Mouz.max in the top bar. In that case, will kaelaris still be featured in the "others" section?
What does he stream aside from Mouz Trap, which I believe is on the calendar? If he streams often stuff outside that, then he should still be featured, as that was the standard.
Damn this new wideness is really annoying. I guess I'm going to have to figure out some new window positioning. In regards to the stream section I would have preferred a preference option on the players and others text because I vastly prefer just an alphabetical list of online streams rather than categorizing players and non players.
Might as well take advantage of the race icons though ^^
I'm curious how that google linked advert works out for you guys.
whoever is the major brains behind the website concept and direction i think has alot of talent, if only other website i love would put this much thought into how their websites function.
I'm using 1024x768 and the right sight of the screen is cut-off, so I see almost no ads unless I scroll right which suits me perfect because I don't have to turn-off ad block for TL and I still don't get any adds. The only downside is that I don't see the calendar or the online streamers, but I don't really care for those because I don't watch to many streams nowadays.
It's good that at least some set of rules on how to get featured has now been made. As far as I know, before this it was completely up to the mods as to who was featured or not. Now pro players know pretty much what they have to do before they can become featured.
I'm probably among the 0.5% with my tiny little netbook and my 1024x576 resolution
The width will take some getting used to but it's not so bad. I have two bugs I wanna report though:
The Sidebar Settings is too tall for my resolution. Since I can't scroll within the settings, it is impossible for me to reach the Save Preferences button. I guess I can change the settings on my desktop if I really wanna fix it now, but I feel TL shouldn't discriminant against small screens
I'm quite happy that the auto-resize for the upload image function is taking the new forum width into account, but there's some broken stuff showing with new images being uploaded, which says: 30px;overflow:hidden">
I'd upload an image to show an example, but I only have non-starcraft related images on hand
I love the new features, I think another great feature that seems like it wouldnt take a whole lot of back breaking to implement (i do apologize if it's already been mentioned) is "Favorite Streams", half the featured streams i never watch, a few non-featured I do.. If i had the capability to filter my absolute favorites, eg: EGHuK, MouzMana, MLG, optikzero, DRG, etc. That would be quite nice. The Favorites being above the Featured, obviously... Irregardless, great work as always TL.Net :D
A little problem however on a 1280x800 laptop resolution: the "save preferences" button is impossible to access as the customization menu is not scrollable (workaround: go in fullscreen in the browser).
I can neither find the TSL players that have started streaming recently such as polt alive and killer on the newly defeatured or the currently featured lists. I believe they use to be featured? Are they still featured?
It's funny how almost a decade of a format works to make anything else seem so unnatural. Usually when I browse TL I feel at completely home and comfortable. As of now, it feels a bit alien. Definitely gonna get some getting used to haha.
Aww man. Like half the featured streams I like to watch (iNKa, sterling, cArn, link0) are being defeatured. Oh well, I guess I can catch them when they go live in the unfeatured section.
Meh, I know I don't post much; seeing as how I have lurked for years and only created an account last year, so my feedback is obviously less important, but still... I very much dislike the width of the site.
Mainly because it violates the "standard width" of websites, and it requires me to make my browser window larger, or have to scroll.
The thing I regret : team streams... I personally like watching Millenium TV . You'll tell me I can always look for them on the web, true; but you know, it makes things more complicated, and in the end you often end up not doing it... + I wouldn't have discovered them in the first place without the featuring.
I've tried making an exception for teamliquid.net, even tried disabling adblock altogether, but for some reason I still only get Elly and no ads. Any ideas as to why?
I like the right sidebar changes alot, thank you TL. The wideness is a little weird but I think I'll take time to get used to it before thinking it's an issue. .
Well, somehow the increased width looks kind of alienating. But I guess I'll get used to it soon. At the very least, I can see why a change like this makes much sense. I am kind of sad that a few of my favourite players get unfeatured though, guess they haven't posted enough results recently and they do not belong to teamliquid, huh? :-/
I don't know if this thread can be used for suggestions or not, but since I pretty much rely on the tl homepage to pick a stream several times a day, there are two things i would like to see some day, if the web development effort was doable:
Since I also only care about SC2, the language used below is sc2 centric, so feel free to adapt to other games as needed.
Edit: option 1 already exists, i just #$%?&* cant read. + Show Spoiler +
1- an option to be able to see the listed race for a stream. I do not want to filter out races, I actually watches from all 3, but it would be useful to have the race icon(s) besides each stream name. Of course, after a while you know most featured streams' races, but when i decide to pick a non featured which is fairly frequent, seeing a race would be helpful to me.
2- picking a handful of "personally featured" streams, that would just show up in the featured section just for me, independantly of the ones currently featured by TL. There are a number of people I care about that are not featured but I often pick them first, so having the ability to extract them from the ever growing list of online streams without searching would help me. To keep things manageable, TL could impose a limit on the number of "personal features", like 5 or 10. I know I would probably personally feature like 4 right now for my own use.
Just ideas though. TL is already a great place and whether those 2 ideas ever see the light of day wont change that basic fact
The old width of the site was rather archaeic, but it was so nostalgic having to read stuff from such a small size. I guess we'll have to relook at image width for banners of threads then
Since I'm still using a screen width of 1024px, I would greatly appreciate having an option somewhere to fall back to the old lay-out, as the current one forces me to scroll a little if I want to access the right sidebar. Horizontal scrollbars make me feel itchy. I realize that I'm probably the 1% in this case, so I understand if you don't plan on including such an option.
The customization is amazing and very welcome. Now it'll be much easier to find and notice the BW streams and events. This is a huge improvement of the usefulness of TL for BW. Thanks!
On November 01 2011 17:46 dala wrote: I do not approve with the widening of the center field since it makes longer lines in the text. It is typographically harder to read longer lines.
More adds is fine with me, but please fix this issue some way!
I agree. I don't have a particularly good reference for this, but this article mentions it. I find it less comfortable to read, anyway.
When watching PL, I'd often put the live report thread side-by-side with the stream, and before there was about enough room to do this on my monitor (which is widescreen but not very big). Now it's probably not going to work. Perhaps the ad could be moved up slightly to lie between the menu and the News/Thread Title/Calendar, which would allow a narrower middle column.
Sorry to pick on this, but it's the only thing that bothers me about the changes. Everything else is good.
On November 01 2011 18:01 Stringy wrote: why stop featuring all the koreans that have been recently popping up... Polt, Alive, etc.
edit: i don't see most of the koreans that used to be featured on either list.
Not sure about the other ones, but Polt not being listed has to be a mistake;
1. High skill level / tournament results (Won Super Tournament) 2. High average viewer count (2000) 3. Notability / contribution (Come on, it's Polt!) 4. Activity (He's been streaming regularly)
Maybe they want him streaming for a bit longer before they feature him? Either that or they just forgot to include him in the list.
On November 01 2011 18:07 Plasmid wrote: 1- an option to be able to see the listed race for a stream. I do not want to filter out races, I actually watches from all 3, but it would be useful to have the race icon(s) besides each stream name. Of course, after a while you know most featured streams' races, but when i decide to pick a non featured which is fairly frequent, seeing a race would be helpful to me.
You must have missed it - there's an option for this. I'm looking at the non-featured stream list now and nearly every single one has a race icon next to it.
On November 01 2011 18:07 Plasmid wrote: I don't know if this thread can be used for suggestions or not, but since I pretty much rely on the tl homepage to pick a stream several times a day, there are two things i would like to see some day, if the web development effort was doable:
Since I also only care about SC2, the language used below is sc2 centric, so feel free to adapt to other games as needed.
1- an option to be able to see the listed race for a stream. I do not want to filter out races, I actually watches from all 3, but it would be useful to have the race icon(s) besides each stream name. Of course, after a while you know most featured streams' races, but when i decide to pick a non featured which is fairly frequent, seeing a race would be helpful to me.
2- picking a handful of "personally featured" streams, that would just show up in the featured section just for me, independantly of the ones currently featured by TL. There are a number of people I care about that are not featured but I often pick them first, so having the ability to extract them from the ever growing list of online streams without searching would help me. To keep things manageable, TL could impose a limit on the number of "personal features", like 5 or 10. I know I would probably personally feature like 4 right now for my own use.
Just ideas though. TL is already a great place and whether those 2 ideas ever see the light of day wont change that basic fact
Why don't you guys allow for full customization of streams? Like have a check box beside all streams and only the ones you check show up for you? If you want to prevent featured streams from not showing, then just disable that option for those and force those to show, but allow it for non featured streams, so the list isn't a mile long when you click on non featured streams on the side bar.
Love the changes guys. The widening of the site was a little weird at first but I've adjusted to it. Also it means I'll be able to create wider banners for LR threads :D
Love the calendar and stream customisations too, doesn't feel cluttered anymore. Great work
I was cool with the smaller ad banner at the top (before the change), but now there is a significant larger top banner as well as the new one on the right side and this means return of the adblocker.To make one thing clear: I hate ad banners. And Teamliquid.net was the only website I had adblocker turned off. That small ad banner was bearable, but switching through the livestreams was a pain (already). With this change I just have to turn adblock back on, because I can`t stand the random color changes and all the animations that do nothing but distract me. I`m sorry for TL, but I will order a t-shirt to support you guys in a different way.
The customizable sidebar is nice though (especially the race icons for the streams).
Honestly this is really bad for those of us with small screens... I am on my macbook and have 1280x800 and I have to scroll left and right I have honestly never had this problem before on ANY website..! and I can't save my settings on the sidebar, as people have mentioned before. It just cuts off at the bottom...
I must say the customization of the sidebar looks awesome tho, just wish I could use it
On November 01 2011 18:07 Plasmid wrote: 2- picking a handful of "personally featured" streams, that would just show up in the featured section just for me, independantly of the ones currently featured by TL. There are a number of people I care about that are not featured but I often pick them first, so having the ability to extract them from the ever growing list of online streams without searching would help me. To keep things manageable, TL could impose a limit on the number of "personal features", like 5 or 10. I know I would probably personally feature like 4 right now for my own use.
This is something we would like to add but its a little more complex to enable, so it was pushed off the list for this update. Hopefully it will happen soon.
Cool changes, the widening of the layout seems awkward to me right now but it'll fix many problems and that's great. We can also have larger pictures which'll be a great bonus when looking at screenshots/etc or even the sfw funny images thread.
On November 01 2011 17:34 J1.au wrote: TL is too wide for me now.
I only have a 1024x768 resolution.
Unfortunately, you are the 1%.
Haha too funny. Sorry for those that are in this situation though.
I really like the new changes so far. Especially how we can label each player with their race icon. And now when I view TL it doesn't have like 4 inches of white on each side lol.
Something I have notice though is that it doesn't seem to want to load it to the wide version when the page is first loading. It is in the original form and then 1/2 a second later it's in the wide form. Any ideas why that is the case?
The sidebar settings "popup" extends over my screen so I can't see a close/accept button and probably a few options aswell. Should I open a thread in tech support? not sure if I should provide also a screenshot and what other technical details besides chrome.
Haha, I'm almost getting vertigo from this wider layout. Guess it shows that I was just really used to the old one. But I do believe that wider is better, so I guess it'll pass in a fairly short amount of time
Also, yay for more ad revenue! My brain has learned that there are designated ad locations that are fairly standard and safe to ignore, so I didn't even notice the ads until they were pointed out in the OP. I don't mind at all spending a couple extra bytes loading teamliquid if it helps out with the economy
The wideness. THE WIDENESS. It's intoxicating and definitely will take some time to get used to. A few site elements look a bit awkward with this new wideness, but I'm sure that should be worked out soon.
The customization should be really fun to use.
Apparently, the site briefly flashes its old width whenever I load/reload a page but quickly changes to it's new width after the text starts loading.
Ah yes, I also very much support the idea of a custom featured player list! I for one do not really care for popularity and mainly watch players who dedicatedly participate in many recurring cups, so I'd like to customize the streams which are listed as featured for me. :-)
customization is really cool but the featured stream thing is just hilariously bad (not to de-feature some streams since that was necessary and good but WHICH streams you de-featured) for example phoenix and vibe drop out while destiny and desrow (i kinda understand that you dont want to de-feature those since they have lot of viewers for whatever reason) but also lz or HappyZergling or Gosl(wait who?) or kawiirice dont get de-featured while phoenix is clearly way better than all of them
(also there are not all streams listed (for example TakeTV ....)
I don't get any leaderboard banners, just the skyscraper, is it just me, or didn't Tl found an advertiser yet? Of course I have TL on adblock's "white list". And yaaay! for the widening!
This wide change kinda broke mobile surfing. On my device (Samsung Galaxy S II) it now crops the page so you have to scroll horizontal to see a non trivial post. This makes surfing feel like hell because you have to scroll back and forth. You can resize the page to fit into the whole screen but then Chrome deresizes back to a default width that crops the page.
Nice! Agree with most of this, sad to see snute losing his featured, but I can see why..
I can't see TotalBiscuit anywhere, as he both has Showcraft(calender) and streams laddergames, usually with 2000+ viewers, and he is well known person in the community. So, is he in the casters/figures list still?!
Really unhappy about the featured viewpoint. I think the featured section should not be to maintain those who are already at the top, but to widen the audience views of who's worth watching.
You scrapped a lot of up and coming people with decent tournament results and maintained those who, may or may not, have outlasted their stay or have shown recent slumping in terms of results but maintain featured status because of their notoriety more than their excellent play.
I just feel it keeps those who prosper down and make it harder for them to obtain opportunities while keeping those who have already made it, still going strong regardless of their simmering gameplay.
But that's my opinion. I love the new changes either way.
I really like the new, wider format! Customizable sidebar is a nice touch as well.
I am curious however, have you ever considered offering a subscription-based no-ads feature for TL? I will not run AdBlock on this site regardless, but I am willing to pay for an ad-less experience if possible
OK it's a bit wide personally because I like to multi-task using Aerosnap so 840x1050 isn't quite enough dots for TL (even though it couldn't fit the whole thing before anyhow).
Still, somewhat prettier, I think, and also I love the new sidebar that you can put the BW rankings back.
AMAZING changes! Really happy with the clean-up and layout changes to the live streams. Much more organized now and I'm loving the raised standards for being featured. I felt quite a good portion of the featured streamers needed to be pulled down due to either lack of regular viewers or just overall lack of notability.
TL staff discussed the problem of "Feast or famine" a few months back. The idea was that only a couple top casters get all the views and the unknowns get nothing. IMO, TL should take their own advice and continue to keep the featured streams list long and cluttered - so that unknown casters have a chance to get their spotlight.
Or perhaps the reason you cut all those smaller streams from the list, so that the huge ad below it could be more visible?
On November 01 2011 19:13 KrazyTrumpet wrote: IMO, the Featured section should be a rotating list of people in order to get everyone the chance to increase their viewership.
We felt that when featured streamers are streaming a large number of hours for 3-4 months and still pulling ~200 or less viewers on average... that is when we will defeature, as they've had plenty of chance to build a viewer base but it's just not coming. Not saying we'll never feature these guys again, but they'll have to show some special accomplishments.
I am sick of ads :/ promise to pay for no ads on this site though; until then it's adblock on for me edit: the crying elephant is so much worse than the horse!!!
I think it is stupid that some streams that have high level 2-2 on every weekend have been de-featured. (one of the best i europe) I am new to rhe site but shouldnt TL promote such stream instead of having pro players who everybody knows is only streaming before important events
This looks really good, allthough I would really like it if HoN streams could also get their own category. Now I guess they fall under other games, but then again, maybe there arent that many other games being streamed :O
Customization is great - so uncluttered on the right now I also like the wider design. I do not however like the extra ads - i can see two huge banners at the same time now pretty much which is a huge difference from what it used to be. I wonder if zuckerbergs fears will come true here on TL, that it is no longer "cool" and has lost that underground/fanboy vibe and just became corporate... (i do understand that you "need" to do this though)
I've been wanting this neat stream selection thing for a while, but now I've found I'm actually a bit worried about deselecting games since I don't wanna miss something because of it.
Thanks so much TL!
Also, I finally disabled adblock just for TL... Can't argue with Elly.
Great news, like the changes. I think that "hurt esport thingy" should be with horsey, not elephant. Width is ok even on my netbook. Everything looks decent(those awesome ads). But what about Megumixbear stream, she's not on featured nor non-featured list. So...
TL Mafia forum is still lurking and waiting.. and we're getting pretty bored with it. Thanks, those things are pretty cool. Especially grouping the games..
On November 01 2011 19:56 SwiftHit wrote: When i open sidebar menu i cant see the full length of the form, and there is no option to scroll so i cannot save my changes.
With modern widescreen monitors many like to use half monitor width browser windows. 1920x1080 & 1920x1200 monitors are very common nowadays. In those monitors half screen size is 960 pixels wide. With Mozilla family browsers (use gecko layout engine like Firefox, Seamonkey and many others) the first two columns (left sidebar & main content) of new TL do not fit to 960 pixels with default settings when scroll bars are needed. This means the text in the main content area is slightly cut, which I personally find annoying.
It requires little less than 990 pixels (includes scroll bars) to show first two columns of TL entirely in Firerefox 7.01 (and Seamonkey 2.4.1) in Windows 7. I would suggest that the width of the first two columns would slightly be adjusted so that they would fit in 960 pixels in modern web browsers like Firefox.
Here is an example picture how text is cut in some browsers with default settings (top Firefox 7.01, middle Seamonkey 2.4.1, bottom IE 8): http://imgur.com/R8Nxr
I really like the increased customization offered in this change and I hope that the increased ad revenue will help TL grow.
One thing I'd still like to see is front page tournament results, as in immediate announcements when someone has won a tournament, with the choice for people to turn this off just like the current customization options. This would give winners more recognition, generate more interest in tournaments I would have otherwise missed and it would make TL and sc2 more up to date and exciting because you can immediately see the latest results without having to shift through forum threads or liquipedia.
I really like the ability to customize the site to my personal preference. One thing I am curious about, and I may be out of line in asking this, but is there a way to get rid of those annoying dating site ads? I do wish to support this site and this is the only page I don't have ABP activated on. I like the featured cleanup aswell, and I really agree with your sentiment that it is not a place to gain popularity, rather a place for deserving players/streamers.
Customization - awesome Width - not good for the way I split up my screen but I see why it's being changed and will work around it De-featuring a lot of streamers - really necessary(although it looks a bit empty now) TL growing and going forward - AWESOME
Now we just need TSL4
Edit: I really like that we got race icons on streams. Looking forward to the left sidebar getting customization too, it's way too cluttered for my liking atm.
Hand it off to a hard working under-appreciated team. The site seems quite logical and transparent, *unlike the butt kissing for the stats analysis called SQ, that not no one even understands, that is about as informative(ly presented) to us as the Richter scale (assuming your not from California and haven't visited Haiti lately). SQ is not note worthy,,, yet, until it's patched and in contrast with many other kinds of stats, BUT the OP's effort is.
Why does TL cooperate with IEM who has a bad record of paying out price money? From a team perspective it doesn't make sense and from a community perspective. Doesn't TL recognise the troubling ethics in this case? Why is not Dreamhack a partner portal? It is the most beloved tournament organizer in the world. Besides does negatives, gj.
Great changes, the stream sorting is awesome and so are the race icons. Thanks for giving us BW elo ranks and BW search engine defaults too <3
Any way you can add collapsing to every single thing on the left side, including community news, replays and blogs? I don't read blogs and I visit the frontpage first every time I come here so the news section always being visible is kind of pointless to me.
I like the changes to site, but I think i have a bug where the ads wont show (I just see elly crying and telling me to disable adblock) and I have adblock disabled.
It's not drastic, the site still feels the same. It's just polished. And it makes a lot of sense plus it's only a small part. You can see it was done with a very high quality process. Anxious to see what the other changes in the future will be.
The race icons are my favorite too. A good addition would be a commentator icon. Most weekly tournaments have so many streamers (which is great) that you can barely find the commentators.
The changes sure are welcomed TL, and we thank you for all the hard work which is being done by the TL staff for keeping this site update to date and showing why this is the best StarCraft-based site in the world.
hmm i felt something was off and then i relised that u guys made the page wider seems to be good revamp for the site also the prefernces is a major ++ gj thxs for the update
Love most of it, but why'd poor ProTech get the boot?
1: Obviously no tournament results, but of the top 200 2v2 teams he's part of about a quarter 2: Don't have numbers on me, but his stream is well-watched 3: He's often extremely useful talking strategy/streaming lessons 4: On more often than not!
Whoa, whoa, whoa... it's so widescreen. I knew it, I just knew it, I had a feeling TL would go Spire... er change. This is going to take a while to getting used to, but these are changes that I don't disagree with.
De-featured Arneipia's/ATK/Riftgarret(and bazilion others) stream? I hate you guys. Sure they had 100 viewers tops, and weren't really starcraft related most of the time. I'd rather watch that over [SC2] coL.CatZ [BW] hirosue2 [BW] Kiante anytime.
On November 01 2011 19:13 KrazyTrumpet wrote: IMO, the Featured section should be a rotating list of people in order to get everyone the chance to increase their viewership.
We felt that when featured streamers are streaming a large number of hours for 3-4 months and still pulling ~200 or less viewers on average... that is when we will defeature, as they've had plenty of chance to build a viewer base but it's just not coming. Not saying we'll never feature these guys again, but they'll have to show some special accomplishments.
Then why not being strict with that rule and defeature all BW-streamers? (note: I don`t want that. But it feels wrong to defeature amazing players like ViBE, that are very well known, highly skilled and have respectable showing in tournaments, even if he only has 3-400 viewers.)
"Players" Category 1. High skill level / tournament results 2. High average viewer count 3. Notability / contribution 4. Activity
looking at these points players like ViBE or typephoenix should be listed as featured instead of Axslav, LZ, Desrow, because they are ahead in every point, but 2.
The new format for the sidebar is very lovely, and more adverts is fine. I was kinda surprised that the featured streams was changed, but I can see that some of the streamers were not deserved, some of them were players with no success, community interaction or anything.
On November 01 2011 21:41 Terrapin wrote: De-featured Arneipia's/ATK/Riftgarret(and bazilion others) stream? I hate you guys. Sure they had 100 viewers tops, and weren't really starcraft related most of the time. I'd rather watch that over [SC2] coL.CatZ [BW] hirosue2 [BW] Kiante anytime.
If you don't like BW streams you can hide them. BW has a much smaller community so it makes sense to lower requirements for BW streams (at least I hope that's the case here). Also, Catz has close to 3k viewers at the moment so you don't have a valid argument for those guys being re-featured. Finally, this is the wrong thread to complain about this.
It's cool that TL.net is getting some changes. I like the customization of the right-side bar a lot. It's something that has been lacking for a long time. This new width is going to make it even harder to have enough things to say as to not respond with a one-liner.
Excited to see what else is in store for the future.
On November 01 2011 18:33 sVnteen wrote: customization is really cool but the featured stream thing is just hilariously bad (not to de-feature some streams since that was necessary and good but WHICH streams you de-featured) for example phoenix and vibe drop out while destiny and desrow (i kinda understand that you dont want to de-feature those since they have lot of viewers for whatever reason) but also lz or HappyZergling or Gosl(wait who?) or kawiirice dont get de-featured while phoenix is clearly way better than all of them
(also there are not all streams listed (for example TakeTV ....)
Agreed I don't get why desrow gets to stay and phoenix is dropped when phoenix streams nearly everyday, and produces games of much higher quality then desrow.
As I run some websites myself I've been keeping track of the TL alexa numbers and they have skyrocketed since the release of SC2, it's now quite stable around the 3000 mark. This essentially means that TL is amongst the 3000 most visited sites on earth.
It's very difficult to estimate visitors just based on Alexa numbers but it could quite possibly be seven figures in terms of monthly visitors and around 100 million monthly page views. The margin of error is very high but the money TL could pull in with proper ad placement is quite amazing, if I were them I'd certainly experiment a lot more and in smaller scale to see what works best.
TL mainly has reoccuring visitors, which decreases the profit. However, even on a site that pretty much only has reoccuring visitors concerning a low profit subject, one can pull in at least a dollar per 1000 page views with some good ad placement.
As such, I am happy that TL tries some new stuff in regards to ads, as they have massive potential in terms of income. If anything, they should try much more stuff. Hopefully they realize that the best way to turn over the profit is to continue giving it back to the community, such as by hosting more tournaments.
Why does Elly the ESPORTS Elephant sometimes make me fly into a minor nerd rage over BW elitism? Other times it doesn't bother me at all. Anyway, I miss the TL horse plushie adblock banner (not that I use adblock on TL, just noticed it had changed before an ad loaded).
Cool changes overall, but I'd love it if the stream preferences (Dota, LoL) applied to the left side forum bar as well, so I can scroll down to Closed Threads more quickly.
It occurs to me that the banner ad at the top could have simply been placed vertically between the toolbar and the main/sidebars. That would have eliminated the need for the weird site width change. However, I do like that TL is being honest about the reasoning for the changes.
Loving the changes to the sidebar. I'm ok with the width change, but have you guys thought about making the site fluid layout or maybe making the option of the width 960 vs 1280 (to logged in users)?
I know the former may cause problems because of the older ad size you guys were talking about.
I love all changes. I'm just wondering why MilleniumTV was un-featured as I believe it airs nearly every day and i has a solid constant amount of viewers ?
I dont really see the need for the widening. It makes it harder to read long paragraphs when you jump to next line. What is the benefit? I can see the need at the front page, but in the forums I just find it decreasing readability. edit: reason is to fit the add. Still sad though.
Another little detail: the sorting of the stream for viewers seems to sort them with the lowest view on top. It would make more sense to put the highest viewer count on top.
otherwise nice with the customability, thanks, gj!
On November 01 2011 22:47 BisuDagger wrote: Seeing Bisu at #1 on the front page of TL has made shed tears of happiness! Love the changes TL. Flamewheel, can we get a preseason power rank please?
BW Sidebar FINALLYYYYY
This is awesome, the new wide-middle layout is a little ...different, but in a good way. I panicked a bit when I saw R1CH tweet "new format" or something, but when I got home I was glad to see good old pony-blue TL :D
On November 01 2011 22:50 Cascade wrote: I dont really see the need for the widening. It makes it harder to read long paragraphs when you jump to next line. What is the benefit? I can see the need at the front page, but in the forums I just find it decreasing readability.
Another little detail: the sorting of the stream for viewers seems to sort them with the lowest view on top. It would make more sense to put the highest viewer count on top.
otherwise nice with the customability, thanks, gj!
If you read the thread and the part about the new full-size ad at the top, you'd know why the middle section was widened.
Smaller ad = smaller center space for TL to fill. Larger ad = larger!
Most banner spaces that are "sold" are the new TL big-size, so TL is no longer limiting its ad options because it's got a bizarre banner size. Running standard = more opportunities for ad space to be sold.
On November 01 2011 22:50 Cascade wrote: I dont really see the need for the widening. It makes it harder to read long paragraphs when you jump to next line. What is the benefit? I can see the need at the front page, but in the forums I just find it decreasing readability.
Another little detail: the sorting of the stream for viewers seems to sort them with the lowest view on top. It would make more sense to put the highest viewer count on top.
otherwise nice with the customability, thanks, gj!
If you read the thread and the part about the new full-size ad at the top, you'd know why the middle section was widened.
Smaller ad = smaller center space for TL to fill. Larger ad = larger!
Most banner spaces that are "sold" are the new TL big-size, so TL is no longer limiting its ad options because it's got a bizarre banner size. Running standard = more opportunities for ad space to be sold.
Right, that was it. Still I wish they could keep the column width a bit smaller for the running text in the forum. Maybe the add could go above the side panels when you are in the threads? A bit sad that readability is sacrificed for add space. But you are correct, I should not say that there is no reason.
While it will take some time to get used to, I really like the new width. You can fit way more text on one screen and don't have to scroll that much. The ads don't really bother me and the stream changes seem cool as well. Thumbs up!
On November 01 2011 23:01 TheUnderking wrote: I can't believe people are complaining about the wider format. Personally I love it. Though I have a 28" screen so I may be in the minority there.
Great! Most happy about: Having the top BW ranking back on page (why is it top 8, wasn't it top 10 before?); wide board woot, larger images would fit now better; race indicators and game grouping for the streams; optional TLPD default. Thank you TL!
On November 01 2011 23:01 TheUnderking wrote: I can't believe people are complaining about the wider format. Personally I love it. Though I have a 28" screen so I may be in the minority there.
I find the lines way too long (they have almost 130 characters) whereas I find 110 should be a maximum for good legibility. I understand the need for the increase in width, but would it be possible to increase the font size to compensate?
Thank you for the improvements and updates. The sidebar tool greatly simplifies and organizes the streams I want to watch. Great work, can't wait to see what more you have in store. . . .
If the width change was done to accommodate the ad I can understand, but its true that the old shorter width made reading things easier. Although this way large images will also show up better now.
The only thing I dislike about it, is the widening. I understand that it's necessary but it's still little sad. Maybe it's just a thing you'll have to get used to.
The option to customize the streams is fantastic and the race icons helps a ton.
The issue I have is that it's almost the normal screen loads, and then the wider screen loads on top of it, and it's giving me a headache every time i load a new page
I like it. Love the customization stuff and the promise of more. Really nice. Gonna take me a while to get used to the width, but I'll get there I'm sure. The only thing i dislike is the store on front page tbh. I'll get past it Good work guys.
Nice changes but I'm kind of dissappointed that you are defeaturing Snute. He's been active lately, has around 300 viewers at all times, and he's providing great content by analyzing his games and providing commentary. Also, he's Grandmaster in EU in addition to going to ESWC and going to represent Norway in WCG.
Am I the only one that only watches BW matches but SC2 streams...and now I can pick only 'toss streams....wow I love that there isn't 5000 things on the calender now...and I will be able to follow my dear Sparkyz...errrr entus. I love the new changes....thank you!
Loving the changes. Well done TL. I just hope that the featured players do not overwhelm smaller players, making it useless for anyone to do anything anymore
The new ads make the site too wide for people using 1024x768. Not everyone can afford widescreen LCD monitors. I understand you had to make the banner ad wider but having to scroll left and right to use the site properly is just awful.
Its unfortunate to see user experience ruined for advertisements. Everyone needs to make money but I wish there had been more forethought to the design and layout.
Did anyone else notice that previously featured streams now are gone in the right bar, but not in the dedicated stream list (top right beneath the clock)? For example, Fuzer streamed earlier (saw this via IRC announcement, which still stated him as featured), but then I couldnt see him as either featured or non-featured. The same is happening right now with Check and StarTale.Rainbow, which are supposed to be still featured?
Love the new changes. I am glad that race icons have been implemented, I hated having to watch a commercial just to investigate what race a streamer was playing. Also appreciate the personalization options, as I think it is inevitable that the DOTA-type games and Diablo 3 will have a place on TL, but they're just not something I am interested in at this time. Thanks for all the hard work, looking forward to further personalization options!
New site is looking good. Wonder why optikzero is no longer featured? Guess he must have not had enough viewers, or one of the other 4 reasons he discussed. Too bad, but site looks damn good.
The front page image looks a bit akward being on the left side of the summaries, i'd like it more if the image was on the right as the eyes focus gravitate towards that area.
I like most of the changes but I dont get why ProTech would get defeatured. The #1 2v2 Player in the world, streaming 10 hours everyday and having constant 300 viewers. I mean if 300 is too low, than Liquid'Haypro would have no reason to be featured, since he does not meet the requirements.
I didn't read all the posts so if this was posted already sorry:
In the customization there is a small bug when selecting the "sort by" If first one is game or viewers then second is set to default and disabled. It would make sense to sort first by game and second by viewers right ? (just in case not everybody gets that error i use firefox)
- alo would be great to have a cancel button there
- and as somebody posted earlier if race icons were on left side was better (maybe even allow sorting by race)
Great new layout. Works well with my widescreen laptop. One question though. Is it possible to add the race to the streams. Half of the time i'm guessing what race the person is playing.
I like the new thing about being able to change by game and name, but... shouldn't name have been alphabetical or something? I have that set for my second thing and there seems to be absolutely no order to them beyond the game they're playing... to give you an example, this is what my normal section looks like, and the featured ones are just 5 streams right now in reverse alphabetical order.
I absolutely love the changes to the sidebar. It's such a brilliant change, so props to the TL staff responsible for those changes. The wider comments will take a while to get used to, and they will make it that much harder to make it seem like my posts have some substance to them. XD
Awesome! I have been waiting for additional banners I want my favorite site to make money <3 This is clean enough. The banner that occurs at the top in the funny picture thread is pretty neat as well.
I wish you could filter the calendar more. The ones I'm interested in are basically BW, GSL, MLG and a very select few other tournaments. If I turn SC2 on, BW events get buried under all those other tournaments. If I turn SC2 off, I can't see GSL/MLG/etc.
On November 01 2011 17:26 Savern101 wrote: Why are Onemoregame. and Nasl.tv being defeatured? Surely they have pretty regular broadcasts? But MLG.tv hasn't been defeatured? Seems weird to me. Like the changes though/
It is explained in the reasons, as MLG_Live produces regular non-calendar content while OMG and NASL only associate with Calendar events.
This is just another way to kill the BW scene. Now we have to upgrade our monitors just like the korean BW teams recently had to for SC2. Goodbye 1024x768, my old friend. You will be missed.
Also, while not at home, I liked watching the streams and visiting the site on a new tablet I got and the width is only 1024px there, so I can't see the entire page. Discrimination against tablet users.
I like the rest of the changes though. Definitely a step in the right direction.
On November 02 2011 00:15 GogoKodo wrote: Stream ordering by viewers looks like it's doing ascii ordering instead of by actual number. ie. 1, 100, 2, 20, 3 etc.
Millenium streams its players with 2 sequence per weekday (16:00 and 18:00 usually) It's not as important for them to be streamed as they feature mostly Adelscott and 2 lesser player (YoGo and KleeneX) and get mostly french viewers but I'd like you to know that they indeed meet your requirements.
Is there a new plug-in that has to installed to view all of the new features on Chrome? I'm only seeing the original top banner ad and the right-side add under the sidebar.
Feature Request (don't hit me please!): Instead of showing either the next 5 events or all events for the next week (like 40+) I'd like to have the option to show events that start within the next xx hours. Showing everything by default coming up in the next either 6, 12, 18, 24 or 48 hours seems quite useful to me. For e.g. as a regular user that browser tl every day I'd probably chose 12h for myself. Other people though might be busier and only be interested to see if there's an event in the next 6 hours (that's basically similar to the current default of showing the next 5 events), because they don't have any time to watch beyond that anyway. And then some others want to always know 2 days before what will be going on - so they could make that default instead of having to expand the list all so often (and then get see the list for the whole next week, which is somewhat unpleasantly long if you actually plan to stay and watch a stream, thereby forcing you to minimize the list again). Maybe not everyone needs this, but I think it would be handy/comfortable to quite a lot people.
These changes are amazing, but I would love to be able to sort the streams by race so I can quickly scan through the names of a particular race without having to turn off the other two. And I agree that I think it would be neater with the race icons aligned on the left side.
lol jk. don't even see them 90% of the time. This generation has an automental filter for advertisements xD love the wide view. gonna make it easier to do the readings ^_^
i shat brix when i scrolled down the page and saw unfamiliar face on the right side smiling at me, then i realized was an ad :D never been so scared of an ad before
im happy not to have been moved down the featured list even tho i never stream anymore! xD
Hashe being defeatured is a bit of a surprise, he seems to do well.
I like the wider site deign, it seems to be scaling to newer monitors as well. I haven't tried the customization stuff yet but I'm sure that change is good as well.
On November 02 2011 00:49 MasterKush wrote: All of these changes are great guys, well done!
People complaining about 1024x768 make lol, it's 2011 people... upgrade your tech!
Edit: I hope you aren't the same people still using IE6
Please stop bitching about other people's preferences.
I want to able to watch a stream AND read a TL article simultaneously. Even on a 24" with 1920x1200 this has now become awkward, the previous width was a lot more convenient.
On November 02 2011 00:33 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [list][*]Trump, Takesen, and TotalBiscuit were supposed to go into the Other category. Expect to see them there soon. ]
Just wanted to say I love the wider width and added preferences. I always thought the page was too narrow on my 1920x1200 screen. I don't care about a bigger ad lol... You guys gotta support the site somehow.
Nice changes, I was a little confused and dazed when I came here this morning. Also just in case anyone wants to create graphics for the new size, the new width is 730px.
Really sucks to see HasH, iNkA and Protech unfeatured. Protech had ~300 viewers all the time and I think that's pretty good for a 2v2 stream, he's a tip top 2v2 player.
EDIT: Just read back and saw Nazgul post saying Protech is being reconsidered internally, awesome . He streams all the time, is one of the best 2v2 players in the world, mics his games so you can hear him and his partners thought process, etc...
I am surprised so many people are having issues with the width increase. If you hadn't told me you had made that change I wouldn't have noticed. Then again I am on 1920x1200 whereas TL probably has a decent number of users with 'runs BW - good enough' PCs.
I would also like to show my support to brining ProTech back.
On November 02 2011 01:36 MattyClutch wrote: I am surprised so many people are having issues with the width increase. If you hadn't told me you had made that change I wouldn't have noticed. Then again I am on 1920x1200 whereas TL probably has a decent number of users with 'runs BW - good enough' PCs.
I would also like to show my support to brining ProTech back.
Its a pretty common issue, 1024x768 was the standard size for a long time and its also the standard size on many mobile devices.
On November 02 2011 01:36 MattyClutch wrote: I am surprised so many people are having issues with the width increase. If you hadn't told me you had made that change I wouldn't have noticed. Then again I am on 1920x1200 whereas TL probably has a decent number of users with 'runs BW - good enough' PCs.
I would also like to show my support to brining ProTech back.
is it possible that when i search on tlpd, the category stays the same as the one i used last? i search 99% of the time bw korea, and i always have to set it again and again
is it really necessary for me to specify which database to search? Could not all searches search all databases and give me results for all om them. Or at least just specify sc2 or sc1 and then give results for both international and korean.
It had to happen, well i welcome this even though i liked the narrower version more, however the width changing was a bit annoying ( steams section / forums etc.)
On November 02 2011 01:36 MattyClutch wrote: I am surprised so many people are having issues with the width increase. If you hadn't told me you had made that change I wouldn't have noticed. Then again I am on 1920x1200 whereas TL probably has a decent number of users with 'runs BW - good enough' PCs.
I would also like to show my support to brining ProTech back.
It's not BAD, but it's not optimal. This is why I personally would love to get that left column out of the way or customizable.
If you have the res then you can try shrinking your browsers text (ctrl mouse scroll down, or ctrl -) to get most it in a smaller window. This doesn't work on say my 17" laptop where 1920x1200 is already quite small, but on a 24" screen it works well for me. I already did it even before the change just to get bigger streams.
Maybe an option to hide the left column for others? I really can't tell a difference.
On November 02 2011 01:36 MattyClutch wrote: I am surprised so many people are having issues with the width increase. If you hadn't told me you had made that change I wouldn't have noticed. Then again I am on 1920x1200 whereas TL probably has a decent number of users with 'runs BW - good enough' PCs.
I would also like to show my support to brining ProTech back.
It's not BAD, but it's not optimal. This is why I personally would love to get that left column out of the way or customizable.
If you have the res then you can try shrinking your browsers text (ctrl mouse scroll down, or ctrl -) to get most it in a smaller window. This doesn't work on say my 17" laptop where 1920x1200 is already quite small, but on a 24" screen it works well for me. I already did it even before the change just to get bigger streams.
Maybe an option to hide the left column for others? I really can't tell a difference.
Yeah, like i said earlier I can obviously work with it but it really would be nice to get rid of the left column. I have never ever used it. I guess I could block the whole element but I'd rather not use adblock at all on TL since I want to support the community and not run the risk of accidentally block ads.
Pretty sad about Protech getting taken off... It's difficult for 2v2 players to get exposure as it is, this just makes it that much harder.
I'll assume players that were removed got some kind of warning/notification ahead of time, correct?
Edit: Race symbols is probably my favourite change. Edit2: After using "Find" I see that quite a few other people feel the same as I do, and it's good to see that it will be discussed (and for his sake, I hope a decision comes quickly. AFAIK, he makes quite a bit of his money from streaming). Winning the PTSL Season 2 should count for something as well. =)
I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
The new width makes the page look really clumsy on a standard netbook resolution (i.e. 1024 px width), and this is the device that I am using to browse it most of the time
I love the changes overall but I HATE that you increased the site's width to 1200px. I usually browse on a 1680*1050 screen in portrait mode so now the site is bigger than my screen's width. Take a lesson from web standards and either keep your site with the old width or better yet, make it liquid (scaling with windows size).
Good decisions all around. Glad to see Protech defeatured.
On November 01 2011 23:54 Xiron wrote: I like most of the changes but I dont get why ProTech would get defeatured. The #1 2v2 Player in the world, streaming 10 hours everyday and having constant 300 viewers. I mean if 300 is too low, than Liquid'Haypro would have no reason to be featured, since he does not meet the requirements.
First of all, do you really think Liquid`Haypro is not going to be featured on teamliquid.net? Even though Haypro does really badly in tournaments apparently, his stream is quite good.
TLPD BW(Korea). THANKYOU! Was so tired of accidentally searching SC2 International or whatever the default was before. <3 Best change there TL (Besides the stream organization... love it all!!!)
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
Nah, ProTech does indeed do some of this, but it's being grossly over exaggerated. This is one of the couple people that have a personal vendetta against ProTech. You can see from the last few pages of his stream topic what I mean by that. It's actually pretty bad that they get away with BMing somebody constantly in that persons own topic, which is made in order to try and get in more viewers.
Keeping protech off was a great choice. He is extremely racist and immature and keeping him up on the featured list is hurting esports. If someone new finds his stream and sees that he cheeses every game and calls everyone a hacker/N*gger, that beats him, it creates a bad impression on both Team Liquid (for supporting this) and Starcraft in general.
None of his games are high level anyway, he only knows how to 4 gate, 10 pool and 3 rax. A better choice for a high level 2v2 feature would be Azide, ppgBubbles, tehredbandit (protech's main partner).
On November 02 2011 03:02 Modernist wrote: I like the changes but honestly TL needs a complete redesign. It isn't 2003 anymore.
Though I agree with this quite a bit, I understand the undertaking that would be. Keep up making the site even more handy, stream lined and useful for users, then I'll get on your cause about it's beauty (not that I could make it look better than it already does )
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
Unfortunately, he is not exaggerating the situation at all. Every loss is followed by him disparaging the opponents on his stream. ProTech I am pretty sure is the only streamer with a low view count that has groups for people who hate him.
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
Nah, ProTech does indeed do some of this, but it's being grossly over exaggerated. This is one of the couple people that have a personal vendetta against ProTech. You can see from the last few pages of his stream topic what I mean by that. It's actually pretty bad that they get away with BMing somebody constantly in that persons own topic, which is made in order to try and get in more viewers.
Maybe we were watching different streams? Do you have a censored stream or maybe a "nice" version of his stream? I checked it out twice and I couldn't stand the way he acted, and it didn't even seem like he was trying to be funny, he actually seemed to mean what he was saying O.o
On November 02 2011 02:04 zimp wrote: is it possible that when i search on tlpd, the category stays the same as the one i used last? i search 99% of the time bw korea, and i always have to set it again and again
Yeah, you can set the TLPD default option. This change is the most helpful.. I rarely search SC2 pros, but am always looking for BW pros or maps. So helpful to have this back [=
Also one suggestion / request. Can we have BW power rank back? Those were amazing! (Also LOL at Bisu #1!! Thought it would never happen again!).
I don’t mind bigger ads. I want you guys to be able to make money and keep the site going. But the wider site is too wide now. I have to use a bottom scroll bar to see stuff, which is incredibly annoying.
Its either deal with the bottle scroll bar or get used to reading a smaller sized text so everything on the site can fit onto my screen. And its not just my home computer, its every computer I view this site on now. The site is just…too wide now.
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
Nah, ProTech does indeed do some of this, but it's being grossly over exaggerated. This is one of the couple people that have a personal vendetta against ProTech. You can see from the last few pages of his stream topic what I mean by that. It's actually pretty bad that they get away with BMing somebody constantly in that persons own topic, which is made in order to try and get in more viewers.
Maybe we were watching different streams? Do you have a censored stream or maybe a "nice" version of his stream? I checked it out twice and I couldn't stand the way he acted, and it didn't even seem like he was trying to be funny, he actually seemed to mean what he was saying O.o
That's just the difference between watching twice and watching for months.
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
Nah, ProTech does indeed do some of this, but it's being grossly over exaggerated. This is one of the couple people that have a personal vendetta against ProTech. You can see from the last few pages of his stream topic what I mean by that. It's actually pretty bad that they get away with BMing somebody constantly in that persons own topic, which is made in order to try and get in more viewers.
Maybe we were watching different streams? Do you have a censored stream or maybe a "nice" version of his stream? I checked it out twice and I couldn't stand the way he acted, and it didn't even seem like he was trying to be funny, he actually seemed to mean what he was saying O.o
Hmm maybe I have just been lucky so far? I guess I will continue to watch and hope I don't see any of that. Was nice to have a good 2v2 stream (Selects is sometimes - but usually 1v1), but I hate over the top BM. I mean a little bit of it is fine, you can't expect to totally get rid of it, but I try not to support crazy BM.
I usually prefer to watch 1v1, but team game streams are great every now and then for variety.
On November 02 2011 03:08 lazyo wrote: I love the changes overall but I HATE that you increased the site's width to 1200px. I usually browse on a 1680*1050 screen in portrait mode so now the site is bigger than my screen's width. Take a lesson from web standards and either keep your site with the old width or better yet, make it liquid (scaling with windows size).
Wonder why they didn't opt for this. Would it have been too difficult to implement?
Love the changes, even though I haven't played around with the customization. One nice thing about the widening of the body is that image posts will hopefully look nicer (able to fit more than one decent size pic per line).
The only thing I don't like is that the leaderboard ad pushes down the featured news, and interrupts the horizontal flow of the page (imo). I don't know if the leaderboard add has to be in a specific position, but I'd propose moving it below the featured news. On my laptop with a fairly standard 800 pixel height display, it still puts the ad "above the fold" (I use Chrome, which does not have excessive vertical ... cough, chrome, and do have the Windows Start Menu bar hidden or to the side, so YMMV).
Something like this:
Note: I don't mind the leaderboard above the main content on other pages, just on the homepage it makes it seem less cohesive of a "front page" a la newspapers.
Edit: I'm noticing inconsistent loading delays for the right side-bar. The rest of the page will load first, and then it takes a few seconds for the right sidebar to load.
Edit 2: For those who don't like the width, I wonder if a mobile version toggle could be offered.
I think people are freaking out a bit too much about the defeatures. You will still be able to check TL to see if their streams are up by expanding the "non featured" link.
We've gotten to the point where theres so much livestreaming going on that its not enough to have 100-200 average viewers anymore.
I love the changes to the sidebar on the right, I only have one suggestion. When you toggle to show races on (for SC streams) the race appears *after* the name. I'd like them to appear to the left/before the names, so that they are all aligned vertically. It would simply look nicer.
Everything is taking 2x longer to load....not a fan, sorry..
Still only takes 3 sec to load front page or sc2 page, but used to be half that....though i do like the icons next to streams, so i guess i decent tradeoff...but i am impatient lol...or mainly just too used to the faster
These changes are really great but I think some of those streamers deserve to stay. attero, titan, ranged and a few others are active and mildly popular.
So i turned on the race icons for the starcraft streamers and i noticed that putting the icon on the left side of the name would make it look more streamlined
Omg EPIC I really love the ideas of these changes they are FANTASTIC
I really like your reasoning for the streaming too!
It will take a while to get used to this wideness though ( a little awkward since a post's text covers even less space now, while the nametag and date etc. can take up just as much space as the actual post itself)
Most of the adds im getting are 'quick' loan (no idea if they have an english name) sites that the goverment thinks are breaking laws and people are getting fooked by them
NICE, it's like u listened to my complaint about how the site feels (related to the number of .."stuff" u see on it).
Now if in the future u plan on doing the same for the middle and left part, that would mean 90% user customisation
Anyway..major thumbs up..really really good changes so far, looking for more in the future. Bring TL to the future ;D
EDIT: one thing i would want to know tho. Why arn't contests like MLG listed in the calendar? Only sponsored events are listed in the calendar?...meaning MLG has to pay u guys to get included in the calendar with bold numbers?
Yeah I don't get all the complaints about the wider format. I use 1680X1050 res and I hated the old layout because it meant like 50% of my screen was just whitespace on the sides. While this new format is wider, it's only slightly wider than before and barely noticeable to me as I still have a ton of whitespace on the sides.
I wish they made the layout adaptive to whatever resolution you're using so the site fills up the whole screen. Maybe one day that will happen, but anyone using a widescreen res won't notice much of a diff from before.
Whew. I didn't see under "players" Trump's name, but he's in the other list of featureds. That was a close one. I would probably quit TL if Trump was dropped from the featured list.
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
Agree with this 100% Best thing about the defeatures was protech getting removed. He's one of the most bm players out there and no cares about a team game stream. Really hope Nazgul doesn't reverse this decision because a ton of legit pros got defeatured, so it would make no sense to put him back over others.
On November 02 2011 04:54 Canucklehead wrote: Agree with this 100% Best thing about the defeatures was protech getting removed. He's one of the most bm players out there and no cares about a team game stream. Really hope Nazgul doesn't reverse this decision because a ton of legit pros got defeatured, so it would make no sense to put him back over others.
No worries there's a lot of info here, we'll take all of it into account.
This is awesome. As a player really only interested in Sc2 this cuts down on a lot of the clutter. Race icons in the stream section is my favorite, i was literally thinking of that yesterday.
Wow!!! i dont mind any of the changes, its w.e But i went into the options to change the side bar, just clicking group streams by game and unclicking the 3 options i dont want to see on my stream list made it look so sleek and organized. I like it alot.
BW Sayle
SC2 (insert tons more streams here)
Other
Its just so organized. I like it! Thanks for that change! everything you did with the streams made me happy :D
What is the intent of featured streams? I keep asking this but never got a full answer.
What is the intent of featured streams to those who are featured? Is it to promote them despite already being a big name and recognizable figure or to reward them for great achievement and display their great gameplay
Some of these points may have been mentioned earlier, but I would like:
- Option to sort players by race. - Put the race icon before the player's name so things look neater. - The ability to favourite streams so they show up bold.
On November 02 2011 05:06 Torte de Lini wrote: What is the intent of featured streams? I keep asking this but never got a full answer.
What is the intent of featured streams to those who are featured? Is it to promote them despite already being a big name and recognizable figure or to reward them for great achievement and display their great gameplay
It's so people actually know when these big players are streaming, having them always visible on the biggest SC community means that people always know when their favourite player is streaming.
On November 02 2011 05:06 Torte de Lini wrote: What is the intent of featured streams? I keep asking this but never got a full answer.
What is the intent of featured streams to those who are featured? Is it to promote them despite already being a big name and recognizable figure or to reward them for great achievement and display their great gameplay
I see it as a way for TL users to be able to select a quality stream conveniently.
Why was attero defeatured... ? i enjoy his streaming and he has good/high average skill. i'm not sure about notable achievements but im sure he's won some stuff / has some good deep runs for online tourneys.
On November 02 2011 05:06 Torte de Lini wrote: What is the intent of featured streams? I keep asking this but never got a full answer.
What is the intent of featured streams to those who are featured? Is it to promote them despite already being a big name and recognizable figure or to reward them for great achievement and display their great gameplay
The intent is to promote streams that are either popular, or that we think will become popular. This can be based on many factors such as described in the OP.
On November 02 2011 05:15 Smoodish wrote: Why was attero defeatured... ? i enjoy his streaming and he has good/high average skill. i'm not sure about notable achievements but im sure he's won some stuff / has some good deep runs for online tourneys.
Lack of viewers, and not enough accomplishments to make an exception.
On November 02 2011 05:15 Smoodish wrote: Why was attero defeatured... ? i enjoy his streaming and he has good/high average skill. i'm not sure about notable achievements but im sure he's won some stuff / has some good deep runs for online tourneys.
Notable achievements: First place of Go4SC2 #37 [7] First place of Go4SC2 #44 [8] First place of Go4SC2 #48 [9] First place of Go4SC2 #70 [10] First place of Go4SC2's Monthly Final #06 [11] Second place of Go4SC2 #15, #16, #20 [12] Second place in Justin.tv Invitational #2 [13] First place of 2 US Craft Cups [14] First place of N'fusion LAN June 2011 [15] Qualified for IEM Americas Cup (Defeated EG's iNcontroL, Col's Cruncher, FXO's Drewbie and Fnatic's Kawaiirice) Top 16 Seed for Qualifications at the Intel Extreme Masters NA/SA Qualifier (2011) [16] Shared Third place with ROOTSlush at LAN ETS 2011 [17] Ranked 20th Grandmaster with 1644 points and 468 wins out of 713 games (65.64%) Ranked 37th Grandmaster with 1335 points and 306 wins out of 456 games (67.11%) Semi-Finals in the StarCraft II Go4SC2 IEM NYC Qualifier #1 (defeating Fnatic's TT1) [18] Championship Bracket (2-1) at MLG Anaheim 2011 (defeating players such as Complexity's Stalife, RSVP, GGLastshadow, Liquid Jinro and InkA!), defeated by ThisIsJimmy [19] Participation at It's Gosu Invitational #1 (defeating Empire Beastyqt, FXO Optikzero) [20] Third place in Skyzo Cup #4 [21] Participation at MLG Raleigh 2011 [22] Third place in the TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #22 (defeated by Zenex's Yong) [23] First place in Complexity's Week #25 Showmatch: "The V" vs. Reign's Spades (score: 4-3) [24] First place in Complexity's Week #26 Showmatch: "The V" vs. Complexity's Trimaster (score: 4-1) [25] First place in Complexity's Week #27 Showmatch: "The V" vs. It's Gosu's Ostojiy (score: 4-3) [26] First place in Complexity's Week #28 Showmatch: "The V" vs. Lizzuma(score: 4-1) [27] Second place in the StarCraft II Go4SC2 IEM NYC Qualifier #2 (defeating Fnatic's TT1) [28] [29] Qualified for the Intel Extreme Master's New York Comic Con event(defeating Fnatic's TT1) [30] Second place in the Xilence Cup #11 [31] Participation at Intel Extreme Master's - New-York [32] Participation in the FXOpen International KOTH #10 [33]
List of players he's beaten in tournaments: TT1, Trimaster, Ostijiy, Spades, Beastyqt, OptikZero, Stalife, Jinro, RSVP, GGLastShadow, Jinro, Inka, Drewbie, Cruncher, iNcontrol, Kawaiirice.
This doesn't include ladder games and there are a lot I am missing.
Just kidding, I love the changes. I was wondering what sort of metric you use for "good results" and "high average viewer count?" It seems arbitrary the way it was written.
It's crazy, I was watching AhhBoxxah's stream last night and I don't usually watch BW streams (preferring to watch the nevake stuff straight out of Korea). I only watched him because he was featured. Less people watch BW streams in general, I don't know if high viewer count should follow the same metric for BW players as it does SC2 players. Will the aforementioned changes make it easier to find skilled BW players?
Thanks, and great changes TL!
Edit: For the default Liquipedia page, can you add an option for the Liquipedia portal at wiki.liquipedia.net? I use both SC2 and BW Liquipedia's and I would like to be taken to a page which gives me the option to choose which Liquipedia I go to each time.
On November 02 2011 05:15 Smoodish wrote: Why was attero defeatured... ? i enjoy his streaming and he has good/high average skill. i'm not sure about notable achievements but im sure he's won some stuff / has some good deep runs for online tourneys.
Notable achievements: First place of Go4SC2 #37 [7] First place of Go4SC2 #44 [8] First place of Go4SC2 #48 [9] First place of Go4SC2 #70 [10] First place of Go4SC2's Monthly Final #06 [11] Second place of Go4SC2 #15, #16, #20 [12] Second place in Justin.tv Invitational #2 [13] First place of 2 US Craft Cups [14] First place of N'fusion LAN June 2011 [15] Qualified for IEM Americas Cup (Defeated EG's iNcontroL, Col's Cruncher, FXO's Drewbie and Fnatic's Kawaiirice) Top 16 Seed for Qualifications at the Intel Extreme Masters NA/SA Qualifier (2011) [16] Shared Third place with ROOTSlush at LAN ETS 2011 [17] Ranked 20th Grandmaster with 1644 points and 468 wins out of 713 games (65.64%) Ranked 37th Grandmaster with 1335 points and 306 wins out of 456 games (67.11%) Semi-Finals in the StarCraft II Go4SC2 IEM NYC Qualifier #1 (defeating Fnatic's TT1) [18] Championship Bracket (2-1) at MLG Anaheim 2011 (defeating players such as Complexity's Stalife, RSVP, GGLastshadow, Liquid Jinro and InkA!), defeated by ThisIsJimmy [19] Participation at It's Gosu Invitational #1 (defeating Empire Beastyqt, FXO Optikzero) [20] Third place in Skyzo Cup #4 [21] Participation at MLG Raleigh 2011 [22] Third place in the TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #22 (defeated by Zenex's Yong) [23] First place in Complexity's Week #25 Showmatch: "The V" vs. Reign's Spades (score: 4-3) [24] First place in Complexity's Week #26 Showmatch: "The V" vs. Complexity's Trimaster (score: 4-1) [25] First place in Complexity's Week #27 Showmatch: "The V" vs. It's Gosu's Ostojiy (score: 4-3) [26] First place in Complexity's Week #28 Showmatch: "The V" vs. Lizzuma(score: 4-1) [27] Second place in the StarCraft II Go4SC2 IEM NYC Qualifier #2 (defeating Fnatic's TT1) [28] [29] Qualified for the Intel Extreme Master's New York Comic Con event(defeating Fnatic's TT1) [30] Second place in the Xilence Cup #11 [31] Participation at Intel Extreme Master's - New-York [32] Participation in the FXOpen International KOTH #10 [33]
List of players he's beaten in tournaments: TT1, Trimaster, Ostijiy, Spades, Beastyqt, OptikZero, Stalife, Jinro, RSVP, GGLastShadow, Jinro, Inka, Drewbie, Cruncher, iNcontrol, Kawaiirice.
This doesn't include ladder games and there are a lot I am missing.
Thanks De Lini, this should be enough to show that he in fact does have notable achievements, and myself, i've seen his stream get up to 500 viewers at one point. I'm sure given more time he'll gather more followers, theres not that many pro protoss players that gather 1000+ viewers consistently. Only three i can think of atm are Hero, Huk, and White-ra
Also, why not have a feature like on reddit, where if someone replies to something you said (in this case quotes you to reply to you), it notifies you in the inbox, or would this be a lot of hard, unnecessary work to add on as a feature ?
The new ads are totally unobtrusive. I'm happy TL gets more money from advertising, and I'm also happy you did it in such a way for it not be overwhelming. Much appreciated!
On November 02 2011 05:15 Smoodish wrote: Why was attero defeatured... ? i enjoy his streaming and he has good/high average skill. i'm not sure about notable achievements but im sure he's won some stuff / has some good deep runs for online tourneys.
Notable achievements: First place of Go4SC2 #70 [10] Second place in Justin.tv Invitational #2 [13] First place of 2 US Craft Cups [14] First place of N'fusion LAN June 2011 [15] Qualified for IEM Americas Cup (Defeated EG's iNcontroL, Col's Cruncher, FXO's Drewbie and Fnatic's Kawaiirice) Top 16 Seed for Qualifications at the Intel Extreme Masters NA/SA Qualifier (2011) [16] Shared Third place with ROOTSlush at LAN ETS 2011 [17] Championship Bracket (2-1) at MLG Anaheim 2011 (defeating players such as Complexity's Stalife, RSVP, GGLastshadow, Liquid Jinro and InkA!), defeated by ThisIsJimmy [19] Third place in the TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #22 (defeated by Zenex's Yong) [23]
Of those, these are the ones which can be considered notable, and of the players he defeated at anaheim Jinro is the only big name. That being said, hes probably more notable than a few of the people featured right now...
Also hope TL gets more add revenue, advertise more please! Everyone who wants more advertising should join me in the "click a TL ad once a day campaign."
On November 02 2011 05:50 goswser wrote: Also hope TL gets more add revenue, advertise more please! Everyone who wants more advertising should join me in the "click a TL ad once a day campaign."
i'll join you! in fact, to make up for my lack of help, i will click an ad 10 times!!! (just this one time to make up for the past :D )
I was wondering why the Dark Theme was messed up, and why the sidebar updater suddenly pasted a copy of the entire TL page where the right sidebar was supposed to be, lol.
It's nice to see the site getting some updates, but I hope the sidebar updater and dark theme get updated soon...
Some of my favourite streamers are now unfeatured TL you should let us be able to have a section on the stream bar that is reserved for streams we're subscribed to. Maybe through your partnership with JTV/Twitch you guys can work on a feature that integrates streamers that we're following on TwitchTV into a list on the streaming sidebar on TL =D
I'd like to second what VashTS said about ProTech having people with vendettas smearing his name (P.S. I can't yet report, but [Stream]ProTech needs a good mopping up). I don't have too much time for streams, but ProTech is one of the ones I follow if I see him featured here. I haven't seen much BM at all (might be because I haven't seen much) but I do remember that he was recommended by Day[9] as a good source for learning the game.
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
I haven't had the time to watch much SC2 lately due to work and what I did watch was mostly catching up on NASL, but I haven't seen any of this. Did I just luck out or is Azide exaggerating the situation?
Nah, ProTech does indeed do some of this, but it's being grossly over exaggerated. This is one of the couple people that have a personal vendetta against ProTech. You can see from the last few pages of his stream topic what I mean by that. It's actually pretty bad that they get away with BMing somebody constantly in that persons own topic, which is made in order to try and get in more viewers.
Edit: To the guy above me, this Chrome extension let's me know when my favourite streams are online. You unfortunately need them to be online (now difficult for defeatured ones) to add them to favourites.
Really like the new changes although I kind of freaked out at first when it looked so weird in my window. Big fan of the stream changes and calendar customization, thanks for keeping TL great!
On November 01 2011 18:45 Torte de Lini wrote: Really unhappy about the featured viewpoint. I think the featured section should not be to maintain those who are already at the top, but to widen the audience views of who's worth watching.
You scrapped a lot of up and coming people with decent tournament results and maintained those who, may or may not, have outlasted their stay or have shown recent slumping in terms of results but maintain featured status because of their notoriety more than their excellent play.
I just feel it keeps those who prosper down and make it harder for them to obtain opportunities while keeping those who have already made it, still going strong regardless of their simmering gameplay.
But that's my opinion. I love the new changes either way.
I pretty much agree with that statement. The actual feature thing discourages people from watching upcoming players.
I suggest instead of putting competition streams in "Others" to make another section named: "Esport events" or... "Competitions" or whatever..and tag every major competition as is. IPL..MLG..GSL..whatever..etc.
The stream changes are great, but I have to say, that 5 news on the right sight instead of 4 look really weird. I don´t really like this change, but I think, if it benefits TL, it has to be done.
How about making the modules look a bit more web 2.0 but keeping the "old spirit". Something like what u have on TLPro.
Also the avatars each has...maybe go for SC2 small icon avatars? Stuff like that...keep the overall theme but improve it to look more modern.
Also, bottom right corner of each post each one picks a team he wants to represent or is a fan of (were the mood icons are). Why not start adding icons of SC2 teams both korean and foreign. Ex: EG and OGS logos.
From a technical point of view..yea u guys are finally heading the right direction. As i said in a post when u guys were looking for new designers, when a community gets THIS huge..u need customization so that each person can chose what he sees and what not. U guys listened and i really am proud being part of a community that listens.
On November 02 2011 03:04 Azide wrote: I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
For myself, who plays with and against protech and deals with accusations of cheating / sucking ass / being black, when I'm just trying to have a good time (it's 2v2 come on), I agree with this 100%.
Being stuck on a random team with him is horrible, as he has 90% of us blocked, so you can't communicate with him, then when you lose, he sits there and bashes you to his audience, where you also can't defend yourself or you're banned.
But I guess there's no point in discussing strategy with him when he has 1 cheesy build for each race and if it loses it wasn't his fault....
Protech ruins the perception of what 2v2 is and should be. Keep his exposure to a minimum, please.
plus he *NEVER* scouts, seriously, never. what kind of example is that?
Kind of upsetting to see ThisIsJimmy and ViBE removed from being featured, they were amazing streamers who we're entertaining and damn good at the game. Hopefully they get re-added in due time, they're awesome gamers!
On November 02 2011 00:33 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: We'll put ProTech up for discussion internally. Possibly we have undervalued his accomplishment as a top 2v2er.
Having watched Protech play a lot, he is remarkably undervalued. He took down some heavy names in the recent 2v2 PTSL season 2, winning first place. He has also hit some well known names on ladders and taken them down with ease. I am also must curious as to why he was taken out of the featured list when he is one of the most frequent streamers there is, as this was one of the criteria you could meet to be put into featured.
I would also like to add this guy is top masters 1v1 (despite not playing 1v1 very often) and I wouldnt be suprised if he had the potential to get into GM if he put the time into it. As a mod and frequenter of his stream I may put the suggestion to him, but either way. He streams a hell of a lot. He is dam good at Starcraft 2. Deserves featured imho.
Pretty major annoyance: While loading the site starts as what looks like its old width, then snaps to the new width as the actual content, right hand bar, and leaderboard ad are loaded(not sure which does it). This is really distracting.
I agree with Tristran's sentiments above - if there at any point will be a competitive 2v2 scene in the future it will likely be through ProTech pioneering the scene like he has been doing. I don't believe he should be punished for devoting himself to 2v2 play.
I use google chrome and I always saw the ad at the top before, but ever since this renovation it thinks I'm using adblock. And I'm not. I had it disabled and I just completely uninstalled it to make sure.
On November 02 2011 00:33 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: We'll put ProTech up for discussion internally. Possibly we have undervalued his accomplishment as a top 2v2er.
Having watched Protech play a lot, he is remarkably undervalued. He took down some heavy names in the recent 2v2 PTSL season 2, winning first place. He has also hit some well known names on ladders and taken them down with ease. I am also must curious as to why he was taken out of the featured list when he is one of the most frequent streamers there is, as this was one of the criteria you could meet to be put into featured.
I would also like to add this guy is top masters 1v1 (despite not playing 1v1 very often) and I wouldnt be suprised if he had the potential to get into GM if he put the time into it. As a mod and frequenter of his stream I may put the suggestion to him, but either way. He streams a hell of a lot. He is dam good at Starcraft 2. Deserves featured imho.
Edit: Typo
it is amusing how many times people have brought up protech's win in the ptsl for a reason to feature him. although the win itself was good (considering the relatively few 2v2 tournaments), people seem to forget the shitstorm protech caused after the ptsl when he accused his opponents (the wizards) of being cheaters. he muddied up their stream thread and eventually was banned for it. notably, the wizards were picked up by fnatic (?) as their 2v2 team whereas protech still has no team or sponsors. guess this incident just got lost in the translation.
Why did the site width not change to fluid/flexible? Why are you keeping with fixed width pages? it's less accessible, less mobile-friendly, and less customizable. Some people might want wider pages, some people might want narrower (like the old) pages, and forcing the size doesn't accommodate that
OK, since the only responses from TL admins regarding the width have been trolling, I guess i'm just going to turn adblock on and thats that. It will still look like crap but i dont see a reason to view the ads since they are the reason it looks like crap.
Hopefully you all come up with a nice solution for those of us who don't want to change screen resolutions just to view your website properly (99% of websites look fine in this resolution)
On November 02 2011 08:12 Nagu wrote: Pretty major annoyance: While loading the site starts as what looks like its old width, then snaps to the new width as the actual content, right hand bar, and leaderboard ad are loaded(not sure which does it). This is really distracting.
Simply for the point of providing some feedback, this happens for me as well. When initially loading a page it starts to load the page to a the older thinner version and then quickly snaps outwards to the new width..
awesome updates like the live stream list updates. no if i can just manage to be on sometime killer is streaming *starts raging*.
oh did you update it so that taeja wont be at the top of the korean list for no reason? I love taeja but he was at number one for some random reason when he hadnt even won anything.
other then that its good. like the removed streams, i was always surprised by just how many subpar streams in my opinion were featured.
On November 02 2011 09:15 Bobster wrote: teamliquid Professional Starcraft 2 Team & Community
feels good, man.
wait so were a professional community now? awesome i can't wait for my paycheck. (end obvious joke). I do love that though it gives more of a sense of belonging.
I love every single change you guys made. Absolutely love it. Especially on the right now it's so easy to understand who's streaming.. it used to be a mess with everything in there and I agree with 99.9% of the de-featured people.
Now I am waiting for the biggest change Change template ! I realize this has been the gfx of TL for a long time but.. It's ugly as fuck
FEATURE REQUEST: Let us choose Favorites for Live Streams.
We should be able to add user streams with the customization of the side panel. For example, Attero was a streamer I loved to watch but was removed from the featured list. Now I have to dig down to find out if he's on. Why not let us choose "Favorites" and have them listed above the others on the side bar if they're currently online?
On November 02 2011 09:54 jake1138 wrote: FEATURE REQUEST: Let us choose Favorites for Live Streams.
We should be able to add user streams with the customization of the side panel. For example, Attero was a streamer I loved to watch but was removed from the featured list. Now I have to dig down to find out if he's on. Why not let us choose "Favorites" and have them listed above the others on the side bar if they're currently online?
ooh, this is an excellent idea, really support a "favorites" list
I do really like the changes, the race image next to the streamers is a godsend, and the width of the site was in dire need of revision.
I don't at all mind TL putting up more ads for revenue as long as they're not too in your face, though it's a shame they aren't all exactly classy... got this gem pop up today:
Lonely Married Women They're looking for a man like you. Don't make them wait any more! DatingForParents.com/Married
Not something I'd really like the site to be encouraging, if you ask me...
I am huge fan of your live streams i am wathing 1 year your streams non stop btw great job .But i am huge fan of 2vs2 and you have only one person whos streaming Protech .That player must be back to Features i understand 2vs2 is not popular but Protech and Bandit team deserve to be on features live streams.He is 1 place at master league on 2vs2 and too my heart too.
On November 02 2011 10:24 Grobyc wrote: Awesome changes all around. Glad to see a lot of these things added.
My thoughts exactly. I've always loved TL. I know I've only had this account for 2 years but I have been coming here for something like 5-6 years now. TL is like a second home to me.
I do however like the idea someone else had about being able to have a personal favorite list for streams for the guys that aren't featured but are still people you love to watch. That way you don't have to scroll through 100+ people everytime you want to see if they are streaming. Just a thought for something in the future though.
This looks amazing! After SotG I'm going to go through the customization. Though I do subscribe to the streams that I like most, it will be great to catch new streams by being able to organize them in particular ways!
I love the new site width, let's me read more things at once :3 Also, I encourage everyone to disable adblock for TL.net to keep this great community running
On November 02 2011 10:07 totalpigeon wrote: I do really like the changes, the race image next to the streamers is a godsend, and the width of the site was in dire need of revision.
I don't at all mind TL putting up more ads for revenue as long as they're not too in your face, though it's a shame they aren't all exactly classy... got this gem pop up today:
Lonely Married Women They're looking for a man like you. Don't make them wait any more! DatingForParents.com/Married
Not something I'd really like the site to be encouraging, if you ask me...
To be fair about the adds that are posted from the site, they are from Google add sense so i am not to sure how much control TL has over the kinds of adds that are displayed on the site
I love the sidebar, however the sorting of the streams does not work properly. I have it set to sort by game, then by viewers. Qxc is showing 149 viewers, but is ahead of sen who has over 700. That isn't making any sense to me at all. Other than that, the changes make reading the forums a lot nicer, less scrolling required
Never mind on this bug, it's because I grouped it by games, in which case grouping by games, then sorting by games, then sorting by viewers bugged this out. Just had to sort by viewers first and group by games and all is well. Thanks R1CH for the info.
I'm very happy with all the changes so far! The customization is great, and despite the ads being slightly more intrusive, it isn't anything major. I still will keep TL whitelisted on my adblock to support the site. Thank you for all you do!
On November 02 2011 09:54 jake1138 wrote: FEATURE REQUEST: Let us choose Favorites for Live Streams.
We should be able to add user streams with the customization of the side panel. For example, Attero was a streamer I loved to watch but was removed from the featured list. Now I have to dig down to find out if he's on. Why not let us choose "Favorites" and have them listed above the others on the side bar if they're currently online?
It's on the to-do list... but it's been there a while, so don't get your hopes up.
edit: annnd now R1CH has implemented it. Huzzah! :D
I beseech you representatives and administrators of Team Liquid to explain why this change to featured (and thus un-featured) streams was necessary. I suppose there is something to say for streamlining (pun intended), but its not like the list of featured streams was becoming unmanageably long. It seems to me that there is a not so insignificant number of streamers who stand to lose a lot a viewers (and thus a lot of revenue). This appears particularly sucky to me, irrespective of whether or not their streams meet your seemingly inconsistent and arbitrary metric.
On November 02 2011 13:37 Peas wrote: I beseech you representatives and administrators of Team Liquid to explain why this change to featured (and thus un-featured) streams was necessary. I suppose there is something to say for streamlining (pun intended), but its not like the list of featured streams was becoming unmanageably long. It seems to me that there is a not so insignificant number of streamers who stand to lose a lot a viewers (and thus a lot of revenue). This appears particularly sucky to me, irrespective of whether or not their streams meet your seemingly inconsistent and arbitrary metric.
you may want to try re-asking the question without insulting the people who spend so much time making this website great. we know you want protech back, but the fact is that his "fan base" left him when he was defeatured. he'll survive.
Re-featured iNkA. His numbers were decent and after running the latest October numbers it is enough to justify a spot in featured.
We're keep Attero, sYz, optikzero and ViBE defeatured for November but we will give them a trial month of featured status in December to prove that they can make it work (numbers). If you're a fan of these guys please show them your support by watching.
We've gone over ProTech again and decided against featuring him, again.
We looked at putting the race logos on the left but it doesn't look good. Main issue is that these logos weren't designed to look of similar size when small, so being aligned looks bad. They will stay on the right.
On November 02 2011 08:12 Nagu wrote: Pretty major annoyance: While loading the site starts as what looks like its old width, then snaps to the new width as the actual content, right hand bar, and leaderboard ad are loaded(not sure which does it). This is really distracting.
Simply for the point of providing some feedback, this happens for me as well. When initially loading a page it starts to load the page to a the older thinner version and then quickly snaps outwards to the new width..
On November 02 2011 13:37 Peas wrote: I beseech you representatives and administrators of Team Liquid to explain why this change to featured (and thus un-featured) streams was necessary. I suppose there is something to say for streamlining (pun intended), but its not like the list of featured streams was becoming unmanageably long. It seems to me that there is a not so insignificant number of streamers who stand to lose a lot a viewers (and thus a lot of revenue). This appears particularly sucky to me, irrespective of whether or not their streams meet your seemingly inconsistent and arbitrary metric.
you may want to try re-asking the question without insulting the people who spend so much time making this website great. we know you want protech back, but the fact is that his "fan base" left him when he was defeatured. he'll survive.
This has nothing to do with protech. Please take your assumptions and go elsewhere. Moreover, I didnt insult anyone. I am entirely open to an explanation that will satisfy me. I took the time to use words like beseech, seemingly, and appears so as to not insult but to describe my admittedly superficial perspective. Thank you, and have a nice day...Sir.
On November 02 2011 13:37 Peas wrote: I beseech you representatives and administrators of Team Liquid to explain why this change to featured (and thus un-featured) streams was necessary. I suppose there is something to say for streamlining (pun intended), but its not like the list of featured streams was becoming unmanageably long. It seems to me that there is a not so insignificant number of streamers who stand to lose a lot a viewers (and thus a lot of revenue). This appears particularly sucky to me, irrespective of whether or not their streams meet your seemingly inconsistent and arbitrary metric.
you may want to try re-asking the question without insulting the people who spend so much time making this website great. we know you want protech back, but the fact is that his "fan base" left him when he was defeatured. he'll survive.
This has nothing to do with protech. Please take your assumptions and go elsewhere. Moreover, I didnt insult anyone. I am entirely open to an explanation that will satisfy me. I took the time to use words like beseech, seemingly, and appears so as to not insult but to describe my admittedly superficial perspective. Thank you, and have a nice day...Sir.
my apologies. when you referred to their decisions as inconsistent and arbitrary, i felt that was insulting. but, hey, i am sure nobody would take offense to that.
On November 02 2011 13:37 Peas wrote: I beseech you representatives and administrators of Team Liquid to explain why this change to featured (and thus un-featured) streams was necessary. I suppose there is something to say for streamlining (pun intended), but its not like the list of featured streams was becoming unmanageably long. It seems to me that there is a not so insignificant number of streamers who stand to lose a lot a viewers (and thus a lot of revenue). This appears particularly sucky to me, irrespective of whether or not their streams meet your seemingly inconsistent and arbitrary metric.
you may want to try re-asking the question without insulting the people who spend so much time making this website great. we know you want protech back, but the fact is that his "fan base" left him when he was defeatured. he'll survive.
This has nothing to do with protech. Please take your assumptions and go elsewhere. Moreover, I didnt insult anyone. I am entirely open to an explanation that will satisfy me. I took the time to use words like beseech, seemingly, and appears so as to not insult but to describe my admittedly superficial perspective. Thank you, and have a nice day...Sir.
my apologies. when you referred to their decisions as inconsistent and arbitrary, i felt that was insulting. but, hey, i am sure nobody would take offense to that.
I said seemingly inconsistent and arbitrary. That means their metric, to me, seems that way. I am not saying those things as a matter of fact. I am simply asking for some clarification, even information, because I want to feel otherwise.
Are you going to fix the calendar so it can be displayed in google calendar? I miss that feature very much, because you could see what your day was going to hold in terms of events in either BW/SC2? Or was that entirely a community creation? Love the changes you have made so far, site is easier to use and feels more natural.
I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
Agree with this 100% Best thing about the defeatures was protech getting removed. He's one of the most bm players out there and no cares about a team game stream. Really hope Nazgul doesn't reverse this decision because a ton of legit pros got defeatured, so it would make no sense to put him back over others.
Ok, gotcha. So because you don't enjoy watching team games that mean nobody enjoys watching team games. All the viewers he has come to the stream for the cool commercials. I guess according to your logic since i don't like watching Destiny's stream that mean nobody likes watching his stream and he should be defeatured too right? Or maybe i just don't click on his stream and not give a shit either way if he is featured or not.
I don't mind the fact that Protech was defeatured..... considering the amount of hate and horrible attitudes that spawn from his channel.
If you match him in 2v2 and win, then go check out his stream to hear what he had to say about the game or his chat he will 1) ban you, 2) ban anybody supporting you.
He will then accuse you of either 1) stream cheating, 2) map hacking, 3) abusing the worst 2v2 combo in the game
It's not fair that a public figure, being put up on the featured list with max 300 viewers gets to call everyone he loses to a stream cheater/hacker meanwhile we can't defend ourselves.
While I understand it is hard for 2v2 to get a start, we have a weekly 2v2 tournament with a stream that can surely help. I don't feel like Protech accusing everyone of hacking and cheating while using racist terms and 1 basing for 10 minutes helps the 2v2 scene. In fact I think if a random person was interested and tuned in they would be put off by all the whining and accusations and stick to the opinion that 2v2 is for bad players with no skill who can just cheese.
I'd certainly think only idiots play 2v2 after watching Protech's stream
Agree with this 100% Best thing about the defeatures was protech getting removed. He's one of the most bm players out there and no cares about a team game stream. Really hope Nazgul doesn't reverse this decision because a ton of legit pros got defeatured, so it would make no sense to put him back over others.
Ok, gotcha. So because you don't enjoy watching team games that mean nobody enjoys watching team games. All the viewers he has come to the stream for the cool commercials. I guess according to your logic since i don't like watching Destiny's stream that mean nobody likes watching his stream and he should be defeatured too right? Or maybe i just don't click on his stream and not give a shit either way if he is featured or not.
Whoa I just read Azide's diatribe. Besides being a gross exaggeration of the truth, I have but one thing to say. If you want to tell your side of the story, so to speak, GET YOUR OWN STREAM!
We keep Attero, sYz, optikzero and ViBE defeatured for November but we will give them a trial month of featured status in December to prove that they can make it work (numbers). If you're a fan of these guys please show them your support by watching.
We've gone over ProTech again and decided against featuring him, again.
Is there a specific reason (or reasons) as to why Protech did not get a "trial month" like some of the others? His viewer count got cut down to 1/3, which is pretty painful. If its not something you wish to put in public, feel free to shoot me a PM.
i'll beat his ass if it's something that can be fixed in such a manner.
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
On November 02 2011 15:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Regarding ProTechs stream:
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
All those complaints come from like 4 people who repeatedly post the same thing in 2-3 different topics. Hell, they even go as far as to nonstop trash his User Stream thread constantly just for the sake of trashing/trolling, which puts off a lot of people. (would love to see it modded, tbh)
As far as results, there's been 2 major 2v2 Tournaments, of which he has won half/one of them, so I'd say that's fairly significant. There's the z33k weekly, but that's a monetary issue afaik.
2v2 doesn't get near the amount of exposure of 1v1, so pulling 300+ people almost all day every day is pretty high, which is about as much as the z33k weekly gets.
On November 02 2011 15:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Regarding ProTechs stream:
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
As someone who actually watches his stream consistently, I have to say that the complaints about his behaviour are either unfounded, exaggerated, or reflect some sort of bias against him. His behaviour is no worse than many other streamers (destiny, idra). If you dont feel his contributions to the 2v2 landscape warrant a featured stream, that is unfortunate.
Will the buttons at the top be re-sized so that they fit the wider format?
I don't see why they need to fit the entire width of the page — WTF is the point? That could also only be done if the webpage is fixed-width, which it happens to be now, but it really shouldn't be. People should be able to choose their own width of the webpage based off the window size they choose for their browser.
For me the buttons are already too wide. It causes them to push the search bar to the next line because I have a minimum font size set. At least it's not as bad as it was before though, where I think even 1 button may have been pushed to the next line.
On November 02 2011 15:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Regarding ProTechs stream:
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
As someone who actually watches his stream consistently, I have to say that the complaints about his behaviour are either unfounded, exaggerated, or reflect some sort of bias against him. His behaviour is no worse than many other streamers (destiny, idra). If you dont feel his contributions to the 2v2 landscape warrant a featured stream, that is unfortunate.
They are ridiculously exaggerated. If they were only slightly so, then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. But "EVERY TIME he loses, he does this/that bm/accusation" and so on.
Re-featured iNkA. His numbers were decent and after running the latest October numbers it is enough to justify a spot in featured.
Grats to him.
On November 02 2011 13:54 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [*]We're keep Attero, sYz, optikzero and ViBE defeatured for November but we will give them a trial month of featured status in December to prove that they can make it work (numbers). If you're a fan of these guys please show them your support by watching.
Will definitely support Attero and Vibe in December to help them out.
On November 02 2011 13:54 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [*]We've gone over ProTech again and decided against featuring him, again.
Good choice.
On November 02 2011 13:54 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [*]We looked at putting the race logos on the left but it doesn't look good. Main issue is that these logos weren't designed to look of similar size when small, so being aligned looks bad. They will stay on the right.
Oh that's too bad. They don't look bad on the right, so no biggie.
On November 02 2011 13:54 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [*]Trump, Takesen, TotalBiscuit all added to Others
Out of a more curiosity question how many viewers are you guys looking for mainly? For some of the people you guys de-featured whenever I saw them stream they always seemed to have 100+ viewers constantly so that obviously is not enough. Are you looking for guys who get 170+ viewers or what? This is again just a curiosity as I am curious on what TL counts as a lot of viewers to qualify.
Why you defeature Phoenix and Cloud is still featured. I like Cloud but he doesnt win anything at the moment and you guys will only archieve that famous people stay famous and unfamous people that win sometimes Go4Sc2 will be unknown forever...
On November 02 2011 15:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Regarding ProTechs stream:
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
As someone who actually watches his stream consistently, I have to say that the complaints about his behaviour are either unfounded, exaggerated, or reflect some sort of bias against him. His behaviour is no worse than many other streamers (destiny, idra). If you dont feel his contributions to the 2v2 landscape warrant a featured stream, that is unfortunate.
Yeah, I agree, as is obvious when you take a look at the filth in his user stream. It's the same complainers. But let's not give up, I think this decision cannot be final, but I've switched to PM's.
Something I've wanted for a long time, the ability to sort streams based on game then name!
Now I can easily open all the people playing certain games. A smorgasbord of content!
Just a question, can we get separate game tags on streams for HON? I asked R1ch about it earlier and was told it was something that is being looked into. I know really specific stuff like MW3 or BF3 would be pushing it, but HON seems fairly popular, enough to distinguish it from LoL streams. If not, no big deal (again the sorting is nice).
Here is a lot of disinformation about ProTech's channel. Many people who posted stuff about him have a personal vendetta with him. Like Azide, Mannerchomp and many more. They are just as bad or worse than they say ProTech would be.
Awesome job with the wider layout! It was long needed.
And on a side note: I saw Protech's stream mentioned. I root for him if my words count something. I know him from the SC-BW age, and he was and is an extremely skilled player his mind set to team games. If we want team games to evolve, his stream is a good source. He might not be the most good mannered or well known player, but he certainly brings enough to the table to be noted.
Yay Inka is featured again! One of the most underrated protoss players out there; hope more people decide to check out his stream now that there's less names on the list.
I have been using Firefox with Adblock for many years now. Whenever I sit at a computer without Adblock I realize how annoying the internet really is.
In the past I gladly made an exception in blocking ads on TL. The old ads were usually unobtrusive, even fun at times. After the changes my browser turned back into a disco with lots of blinky super-annoying stuff. Sorry but this means adjusting Adblock to turn off flash shit. Also I do not like the banner placement on the frontpage. My web developer senses tickle in a negative way. No tickling on the subpages though.
grouping streams together is such a good option ! now I can easily find Broodwar streams and dont have to go through hundreds of unfeatured sc2 streams this will hopefully gain unknown BW guys a chance of accumilating more viewers ! thanks for that
I don't understand how TL and others get money for this advertising. Are they really making people want to meet Russian single women? People click that add and join?
On November 03 2011 00:30 Koshi wrote: I don't understand how TL and others get money for this advertising. Are they really making people want to meet Russian single women? People click that add and join?
Google chooses the ads based on your search and browsing history and on contextual information in the page. So based on that information it concludes you would want to meet Russian single women. As an example, I was researching new cars a few days ago, and now its all car ads.
Please bring Attero back onto featured. Although he doesn't have a lot of viewers, how is he supposed to get them without being featured? He is a very good player, talks while he plays about half the time from what I've seen, and is very knowledgeable about protoss. He used to have about 400 people watching his stream and now he only has about 30-50. He was pretty high GM last season (about 30th) and only didn't get in this time because of the mess-up with GM. Please get him back on the featured or at least more people watch him
On November 02 2011 20:42 NathanEO wrote: After the changes my browser turned back into a disco with lots of blinky super-annoying stuff. Sorry but this means adjusting Adblock to turn off flash shit. Also I do not like the banner placement on the frontpage. My web developer senses tickle in a negative way. No tickling on the subpages though.
/agree I'm willing to look a adds on TL but not the blinking JS kind, which is exactly what I am doing.
How about instead of just unfeaturing Protech's stream you err on the side of caution and actually monitor the stream to see for yourself that most of the accusations flying around are complete horseshit? Seems a bit unfair that you go with what the negative people say and just ignore all the people who have good things to say about the stream. He's won the biggest 2v2 SC2 tourney so far - what else do you want him to do? He is a little bm at times yes but really nowhere near what anyone makes out. I mean let's be honest, lets say for arguments sake that he rages and bms every game he loses - he wins most of his games anyway! Then factor in that it takes him 20 minutes to actually find a game and I think it becomes even more obvious that the supposed amount of bm that occurs on his stream DOESN'T occur at all.
I think that the decision to defeature ProTech should be reconsidered. I don't know if it happened because he didn't have enough viewers but the guy is the best 2v2 player right now. Having at least one 2v2 player should be viewed as a good thing.
I tried adding an exception filter to allow teamliquid + streams to allow ads, but its not working T_T Im sick of seeing the elephant crying don't hurt esports
On November 02 2011 15:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Regarding ProTechs stream:
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
ProTech has one of the most unique streams on TL, mostly because he's the only one that streams high level 2v2 but I thought that kind of exposure was good for both him and TL. There are plenty of people on TL who enjoy 2v2 and it seemed that his average stream count continued to slowly climb. (~400 before he was removed)
As far as his contribution outside of his stream he's done a good job pointing out hackers in SC2, mostly notably Sorcery. Just take a second and look some of these posts.
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world. He's won PTSL S2 over teams like Destiny + Minigun, AxSlav + Strifecro, Inori + GuMiho and some others. The results are lacking only because of the lack of 2v2 tournaments but when you take into consideration the limited amount compared to his results and the fact that he's remained #1 in world on Sc2ranks.com for 2v2 for the past few seasons it really puts it into perspective I think.
StarCraft 2 Season 1 Rankings: #1 2v2 Random Team (Global) [haCkProTech] #1 2v2 Arranged Team (NA) [haCkProTech & Power] #2 2v2 Arranged Team (Global) [haCkProTech & Power]
StarCraft 2 Season 2 Rankings: #1 2v2 Random Team (Global) [haCkProTech] #2 2v2 Random Team (Global) [Catalyst] #5 2v2 Random Team (EU) [untamed] #3 2v2 Arranged Team (NA) [haCkProTech & Power]
On top of all this he streams more than most people and is mic'd. I understand if you want to keep the same guidelines throughout all streamers but if TL had a 2v2 featured stream section he would undoubtedly be the first person to be added.
I feared that due to the change of the featured streams, people might feel compelled to nag about why one of their favorite players had been de-featured (in fact, I felt compelled myself because I am in the same situation). Hopefully, the following will happen soon, then there's no more need for such discussion anymore:
On November 01 2011 18:07 Plasmid wrote: 2- picking a handful of "personally featured" streams, that would just show up in the featured section just for me, independantly of the ones currently featured by TL. There are a number of people I care about that are not featured but I often pick them first, so having the ability to extract them from the ever growing list of online streams without searching would help me. To keep things manageable, TL could impose a limit on the number of "personal features", like 5 or 10. I know I would probably personally feature like 4 right now for my own use.
This is something we would like to add but its a little more complex to enable, so it was pushed off the list for this update. Hopefully it will happen soon.
So glad to see that you have begun to utilize modern IAB ad sizes. One of these days I might actually be able to convince my clients to advertise on your page! I've tried many times and it was always a lack of inventory of IAB units. Major brands see gaming sites and the audiance as a valuable place to advertise. I'm happy that you'll finally get the opportunity place ads from a brand that aren't simply through a network or exchange.
On November 02 2011 15:17 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Regarding ProTechs stream:
The numbers ProTech pulls are not sufficient enough for us to justify a featured stream. When it comes to making exceptions for streamers with low numbers we look at contribution, notoriety and results which are all lacking from ProTech.
Added to this we have received a lot of complaints regarding his behavior. When it comes to making exceptions we would rather err on the side of caution and not feature a stream that gets so many complaints.
ProTech has one of the most unique streams on TL, mostly because he's the only one that streams high level 2v2 but I thought that kind of exposure was good for both him and TL. There are plenty of people on TL who enjoy 2v2 and it seemed that his average stream count continued to slowly climb. (~400 before he was removed)
As far as his contribution outside of his stream he's done a good job pointing out hackers in SC2, mostly notably Sorcery. Just take a second and look some of these posts.
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world. He's won PTSL S2 over teams like Destiny + Minigun, AxSlav + Strifecro, Inori + GuMiho and some others. The results are lacking only because of the lack of 2v2 tournaments but when you take into consideration the limited amount compared to his results and the fact that he's remained #1 in world on Sc2ranks.com for 2v2 for the past few seasons it really puts it into perspective I think.
StarCraft 2 Season 1 Rankings: #1 2v2 Random Team (Global) [haCkProTech] #1 2v2 Arranged Team (NA) [haCkProTech & Power] #2 2v2 Arranged Team (Global) [haCkProTech & Power]
StarCraft 2 Season 2 Rankings: #1 2v2 Random Team (Global) [haCkProTech] #2 2v2 Random Team (Global) [Catalyst] #5 2v2 Random Team (EU) [untamed] #3 2v2 Arranged Team (NA) [haCkProTech & Power]
On top of all this he streams more than most people and is mic'd. I understand if you don't want to keep the same guidelines throughout all streamers but if TL has 2v2 featured stream section he would undoubtedly be the first person to be added.
It is sad that ppl cheering for defeturing one and ONLY good TEAM stream on TL... I feel most of those kids are stream cheaters/hackers or protech's regular customers on ladder... Sure he might not be the ideal rolemodel for your children?! but WTF he is not running for president or local priest, he plays on high level and explains a lot during the process, and also his BM is not 1/4 of Destiny's which I don't mind either (and IdrA bm is so cute too, I want to hug him - sarcasm)...
I really think you should reconsider, because there is a lot more positive then negative feedback, and those bitter guys are only proving how good he is (they are watching his stream, obviously, since they know so much about it).
Moral nazis should take a good look at the mirror before starting to bash someone who doesn't deserve it.
new changes are awesome! I didn't even need to get used to them, they feel so natural.
now that you've spoiled me I feel obligated to ask for me ; ) what I'd like to see is "personalised featured"... I like to watch few unfeatured stream and it's annoying to look for them everytime I log. Is there a way for me to make them appear featured? just for my profile not TL in general.
On November 02 2011 20:42 NathanEO wrote: I have been using Firefox with Adblock for many years now. Whenever I sit at a computer without Adblock I realize how annoying the internet really is.
In the past I gladly made an exception in blocking ads on TL. The old ads were usually unobtrusive, even fun at times. After the changes my browser turned back into a disco with lots of blinky super-annoying stuff. Sorry but this means adjusting Adblock to turn off flash shit. Also I do not like the banner placement on the frontpage. My web developer senses tickle in a negative way. No tickling on the subpages though.
Yeah I don't like flash (not because of appearance), but what's just as bad, if not worse, is javascript. I could care less that the banners don't look nice on the website — In fact I don't even think that they look bad. I do not like any 3rd-party javascript running on my computer. As far as I know, Google uses all sorts of tracking, which they can even associate with your google account so that it's not "anonymous" information — I don't like that. Other agencies do the same thing (bugs), except at least it's "anonymous" due to them not having accounts for services. I use noscript, which happens to block javascript (and objects) from things like Google and doubleclick and quantserve, which disables the ads. If the advertisements were just images hosted by the 3rd party, then noscript would not be blocking these ads.
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world.
ummm, who regards him as the best 2v2 player in the world? what a joke. korean 2v2 teams would roflstomp protech; they are the cheesemasters. protech's american cheese aint shit compared to their gouda. =)
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world.
ummm, who regards him as the best 2v2 player in the world? what a joke. korean 2v2 teams would roflstomp protech; they are the cheesemasters. protech's american cheese aint shit compared to their gouda. =)
I don't even know a good Korean 2v2 team and so far Team PowerTech is the best 2v2 team of NA and EU.
Proof? -> First place PTSL S2. Yes, sir!
And ProTech is undisputed "at least" one of the best if not "the best" 2v2 RT players plus the only one streaming regularly/daily.
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world.
ummm, who regards him as the best 2v2 player in the world? what a joke. korean 2v2 teams would roflstomp protech; they are the cheesemasters. protech's american cheese aint shit compared to their gouda. =)
I don't even know a good Korean 2v2 team and so far Team PowerTech is the best 2v2 team of NA and EU.
Proof? -> First place PTSL S2. Yes, sir!
And ProTech is undisputed "at least" one of the best if not "the best" 2v2 RT players plus the only one streaming regularly/daily.
Thanks for reading.
highest on ladder does not equal best (nor is he even the highest on the ladder this season); nor does one tournament win make you the best (he wasn't first in PTSL season 1 so technically under your logic the teams that placed higher than him in that season would be better than him). you are correct that he is the only one streaming regularly/daily, so i will give you that.
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world.
ummm, who regards him as the best 2v2 player in the world? what a joke. korean 2v2 teams would roflstomp protech; they are the cheesemasters. protech's american cheese aint shit compared to their gouda. =)
I don't even know a good Korean 2v2 team and so far Team PowerTech is the best 2v2 team of NA and EU.
Proof? -> First place PTSL S2. Yes, sir!
And ProTech is undisputed "at least" one of the best if not "the best" 2v2 RT players plus the only one streaming regularly/daily.
Thanks for reading.
highest on ladder does not equal best (nor is he even the highest on the ladder this season); nor does one tournament win make you the best (he wasn't first in PTSL season 1 so technically under your logic the teams that placed higher than him in that season would be better than him). you are correct that he is the only one streaming regularly/daily, so i will give you that.
get a life and leave man alone, he is done more than you for community... go watch some religious channel you fake moralist
I never equated "highest on ladder" with "best of the world". If you think so, please read my post again.
On what criteria do you base your statement, "ProTech is not the best 2v2 player - he would get roflstomped by Koreans" ?
There is nothing like MLG or GSL for 2v2 so you have to judge based on given criteria. Here, at least from my point of view, the only available criteria is PTSL1 #4th, PTSL2 #1st place and many high placements on ladder. Or what else can I take into consideration?
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world.
ummm, who regards him as the best 2v2 player in the world? what a joke. korean 2v2 teams would roflstomp protech; they are the cheesemasters. protech's american cheese aint shit compared to their gouda. =)
I don't even know a good Korean 2v2 team and so far Team PowerTech is the best 2v2 team of NA and EU.
Proof? -> First place PTSL S2. Yes, sir!
And ProTech is undisputed "at least" one of the best if not "the best" 2v2 RT players plus the only one streaming regularly/daily.
Thanks for reading.
highest on ladder does not equal best (nor is he even the highest on the ladder this season); nor does one tournament win make you the best (he wasn't first in PTSL season 1 so technically under your logic the teams that placed higher than him in that season would be better than him). you are correct that he is the only one streaming regularly/daily, so i will give you that.
get a life and leave man alone, he is done more than you for community... go watch some religious channel you fake moralist
very well stated. i guess i was wrong to question you.
On November 03 2011 06:25 snejstorm wrote: I never equated "highest on ladder" with "best of the world". If you think so, please read my post again.
On what criteria do you base your statement, "ProTech is not the best 2v2 player - he would get roflstomped by Koreans" ?
There is nothing like MLG or GSL for 2v2 so you have to judge based on given criteria. Here, at least from my point of view, the only available criteria is PTSL1 #4th, PTSL2 #1st place and many high placements on ladder. Or what else can I take into consideration?
your "best of the world" was based on his ptsl win and ladder ranking. considering the ladder is the only thing that relates to the "world," i think its a fair assumption that is what you are basing best in the world on. how else would you compare him to people who didnt participate in ptsl?
i based my korean statement on my own bias that korean 2v2 teams are awesome. no better or worse than any of the statements i have seen concerning protech.
ptsl is not the only 2v2 tournament. there are ESL 2v2 tournaments and the z33k tournaments. why are you ignoring those? the z33k tournament is weekly.
dAPhREAk, you obviously have personal issues with protech, since all you do is talking trash about him across the board... he is obviously highly ranked 2v2 player in all seasons, and that is the fact, he explaind why he doesn't play tournaments... I think you are sorcery's troll account... I defend him cause I find his stream entertaining and usefull, and I also find your posts boring and useless.
On November 03 2011 05:58 saltywet wrote: personally, all i notice are bigger abs
Fixed it for ya My complaint: I can't make TL shorter =(. I have a small laptop so now I have to scroll from one side to the other just to see if somethings going on in the calendar! Heck, I may forget all about searching since I can't even see that now... T.T
Notoriety... Well he's widely regarded as the best 2v2 player in the world.
ummm, who regards him as the best 2v2 player in the world? what a joke. korean 2v2 teams would roflstomp protech; they are the cheesemasters. protech's american cheese aint shit compared to their gouda. =)
I don't even know a good Korean 2v2 team and so far Team PowerTech is the best 2v2 team of NA and EU.
Proof? -> First place PTSL S2. Yes, sir!
And ProTech is undisputed "at least" one of the best if not "the best" 2v2 RT players plus the only one streaming regularly/daily.
Thanks for reading.
highest on ladder does not equal best (nor is he even the highest on the ladder this season); nor does one tournament win make you the best (he wasn't first in PTSL season 1 so technically under your logic the teams that placed higher than him in that season would be better than him). you are correct that he is the only one streaming regularly/daily, so i will give you that.
get a life and leave man alone, he is done more than you for community... go watch some religious channel you fake moralist
very well stated. i guess i was wrong to question you.
On November 03 2011 06:25 snejstorm wrote: I never equated "highest on ladder" with "best of the world". If you think so, please read my post again.
On what criteria do you base your statement, "ProTech is not the best 2v2 player - he would get roflstomped by Koreans" ?
There is nothing like MLG or GSL for 2v2 so you have to judge based on given criteria. Here, at least from my point of view, the only available criteria is PTSL1 #4th, PTSL2 #1st place and many high placements on ladder. Or what else can I take into consideration?
your "best of the world" was based on his ptsl win and ladder ranking. considering the ladder is the only thing that relates to the "world," i think its a fair assumption that is what you are basing best in the world on. how else would you compare him to people who didnt participate in ptsl?
i based my korean statement on my own bias that korean 2v2 teams are awesome. no better or worse than any of the statements i have seen concerning protech.
ptsl is not the only 2v2 tournament. there are ESL 2v2 tournaments and the z33k tournaments. why are you ignoring those? the z33k tournament is weekly.
Why do you bother man? Do you even watch ProTech's stream? He regularly beats the z33k tournament teams with a random partner. When he's 2v2s with one of his premade teams, they rarely rarely lose unless its sorcery (known cheater), and even vs. them he usually wins.
If you knew anything at all about ProTech you would not dispute the fact that he is one of the best if not the best within NA/EU. Korea is irrelevant to this argument because their 2v2 scene is either completely isolated or not developed.
On November 03 2011 06:25 snejstorm wrote: I never equated "highest on ladder" with "best of the world". If you think so, please read my post again.
On what criteria do you base your statement, "ProTech is not the best 2v2 player - he would get roflstomped by Koreans" ?
There is nothing like MLG or GSL for 2v2 so you have to judge based on given criteria. Here, at least from my point of view, the only available criteria is PTSL1 #4th, PTSL2 #1st place and many high placements on ladder. Or what else can I take into consideration?
your "best of the world" was based on his ptsl win and ladder ranking. considering the ladder is the only thing that relates to the "world," i think its a fair assumption that is what you are basing best in the world on. how else would you compare him to people who didnt participate in ptsl?
i based my korean statement on my own bias that korean 2v2 teams are awesome. no better or worse than any of the statements i have seen concerning protech.
ptsl is not the only 2v2 tournament. there are ESL 2v2 tournaments and the z33k tournaments. why are you ignoring those? the z33k tournament is weekly.
To be honest, I haven't heard of those tournaments. Looks like I am not as deep in the community as you are.
You misinterpret my first post. Let me quote myself to point out what I meant:
[...] And ProTech is undisputed "at least" one of the best if not "the best" 2v2 RT players plus [...]
In what world does this equate to "ProTech is the best"?
I think he's at the very least one of the best 2v2 players.
For this statement I have adequate evidence: PTSL #4th, #1st and high placements in ladder from season 1 troughout to season 3.
its been fun guys. i will cease and desist until protech tries to get re-featured. i guess there is no reason to continue to kick a dead horse. as i said in his stream thread:
honestly, its a shame that there are no 2v2 streams to watch. i watched a bit of protech yesterday and he seems to have drastically improved the way he treated people (opponents, his allies and stream watchers). if he keeps it up, i would have no objection to him being featured--although i recognize his recently found manner is probably a ploy to get re-featured. he was an asshole when i first met him online, but if he ceases being an asshole (as I saw a bit of yesterday) then maybe he deserves a features spot. karma is a bitch though. he pissed off a lot of people and now they are going after him (the so called trolls).
On November 03 2011 07:05 dAPhREAk wrote: its been fun guys. i will cease and desist until protech tries to get re-featured. i guess there is no reason to continue to kick a dead horse. as i said in his stream thread:
honestly, its a shame that there are no 2v2 streams to watch. i watched a bit of protech yesterday and he seems to have drastically improved the way he treated people (opponents, his allies and stream watchers). if he keeps it up, i would have no objection to him being featured--although i recognize his recently found manner is probably a ploy to get re-featured. he was an asshole when i first met him online, but if he ceases being an asshole (as I saw a bit of yesterday) then maybe he deserves a features spot. karma is a bitch though. he pissed off a lot of people and now they are going after him (the so called trolls).
That your argument rests solely on the fact that YOU perceive him to be an asshole, based on YOUR PERSONAL experience, means, rather plainly, that it holds absolutely no weight. Why are you not in a hissy fit trying to de-feature destiny if this whole anti-protech thing your doing isnt the result of a personal bias?
On November 03 2011 07:05 dAPhREAk wrote: its been fun guys. i will cease and desist until protech tries to get re-featured. i guess there is no reason to continue to kick a dead horse. as i said in his stream thread:
honestly, its a shame that there are no 2v2 streams to watch. i watched a bit of protech yesterday and he seems to have drastically improved the way he treated people (opponents, his allies and stream watchers). if he keeps it up, i would have no objection to him being featured--although i recognize his recently found manner is probably a ploy to get re-featured. he was an asshole when i first met him online, but if he ceases being an asshole (as I saw a bit of yesterday) then maybe he deserves a features spot. karma is a bitch though. he pissed off a lot of people and now they are going after him (the so called trolls).
That your argument rests solely on the fact that YOU perceive him to be an asshole, based on YOUR PERSONAL experience, means, rather plainly, that it holds absolutely no weight. Why are you not in a hissy fit trying to de-feature destiny if this whole anti-protech thing your doing isnt the result of a personal bias?
Seconded. You're so right.
The link he posted shows some ingame shit-chat going on between tehredbandit, Protech, levels and so on. I have screenshots that give evidence, that at least levels messages people ingame that are just in a match against ProTech and discloses information like "tz" and "hes going roach build".
So there is a small justification for BMing those kids.
Not going to lie, the changes are bloody awesome. A little disagreement with a couple of de featured streams, but other than that, race icons in streams along with most viewer count is fucking amazing. Good job to all the web designers.
I really don't like the new width as it doesn't fit on my monitor, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. The pages within the site also seem to be loading slower :/
On November 03 2011 08:28 Devolved wrote: I really don't like the new width as it doesn't fit on my monitor, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. The pages within the site also seem to be loading slower :/
I wanted to quote the 2nd part of this. The ads make the pages load slower. Every page hangs and you can see the bottom bar says its waiting on an ad server. This is the only bad part of the site updates for me.
I wonder if it has something to do with adblock (I have all of TL green lighted for ads) or my antivirus or if its just a symptom of running more ads?
On November 03 2011 08:48 Bobster wrote: You can still watch ProTech, you know. It's not like he got removed from the site completely.
Its not about being able to watch him still or not. Obviously people still can. This is about supporting someone who, at least in my opinion, deserves to be featured, and about calling into question the APPARENT inconsistency of TL's decision making process.
I don't disagree with TL's choice to de-feature me. Although it is disappointing it also has encouraged me to practice even harder. My only noticeable achievement has been qualifying for IPL 2, and even then, I didn't make it out of Round 1. I'll still be streaming from time to time, and I promise to show results in the future.
If you're a fan of someone who got unfeatured, the best way to show your support towards them is to follow them and continue to watch their stream.
On November 03 2011 08:48 Bobster wrote: You can still watch ProTech, you know. It's not like he got removed from the site completely.
Its not about being able to watch him still or not. Obviously people still can. This is about supporting someone who, at least in my opinion, deserves to be featured, and about calling into question the APPARENT inconsistency of TL's decision making process.
Not only that, but not everybody actually reads TL forums, and not many people click this or click that on websites. His name used to be on the front, which was good for streamers since it gave them a higher chance to get higher viewers. For people like you and I, that doesn't matter in the slightest, but for many people it does. Not only are people wondering where Protech and other streamers went, but the streamers are now missing out on a lot of money. Not to mention the exposure.
On November 03 2011 08:48 Bobster wrote: You can still watch ProTech, you know. It's not like he got removed from the site completely.
Its not about being able to watch him still or not. Obviously people still can. This is about supporting someone who, at least in my opinion, deserves to be featured, and about calling into question the APPARENT inconsistency of TL's decision making process.
Well, the best thing you can do is support his stream by watching it. If he goes up above a certain viewership, he'll get featured again.
TL staff reviewed and re-reviewed his case and decided against him being featured. I don't think anything you can say right now in this thread will change their opinion.
On November 03 2011 09:55 Bobster wrote: I don't see NASL on the calendar in the sidebar, yet it's in the full calendar.
I have both "SC2" and "Other" enabled, so I'm not sure what to do.
Same here. When I turn on Brood War calendar events, however, it correctly shows; I'm guessing that NASL has been incorrectly tagged as BW and not SC2.
On November 03 2011 09:55 Bobster wrote: I don't see NASL on the calendar in the sidebar, yet it's in the full calendar.
I have both "SC2" and "Other" enabled, so I'm not sure what to do.
Same here. When I turn on Brood War calendar events, however, it correctly shows; I'm guessing that NASL has been incorrectly tagged as BW and not SC2.
I have streams sorted by game then by "default", which I thought was alphabetical. It is not. Is there a way to sort non-featured streams by game then alphabetically?
Specifically, just quickly using the race icons next to the stream, I'm wondering if you guys can make the race icons appear to the left of the player's name, rather than to the right. Having it to the right staggers the icons in a way that is not visually appealing, and it's also hard to "parse" the information. Other than that, I love the new functionality so far.
For what its worth I am happy to see that TeamLiquid staff are taking a look at who they have been featuring and making adjustments accordingly.
Protech is one case that I was very happy to see was no longer featured on this site. The racial slurs he has uttered whenever I saw his stream were unreal, not to mention the other hateful comments I have seen him utter. The way he treats people and the harrassment he gives to poeple on ladder were abysmal and then if he ever lost he would blame them for cheating and slander them in general. All in all I felt having a person performing such as this whilst being featured was a little sad to see.
I just thought I would share a few words on the matter. sorry if this was the wrong place to leave this feedback, but lots of other people already seem to be voicing their thought here already so i threw my hat in the ring. TL staff have done well in my eyes by making this decision. Thanks
Also. I have read many of the comments and i know he had a warning wen you would go to watch the stream about possible vulgarities and I understand that. The above text was merely a reflection of how I felt seeing behavior like that being featured on TeamLiquid. I know his stream and his conduct on it are his own business, I just thought little to see it being featured.
I edited the text out of my old post asking for it to be deleted if a moderator stumbleed upon it litterally seconds after reposting here. Your timing was simply opportunistic
On November 03 2011 12:14 MadeinSeptember wrote: For what its worth I am happy to see that TeamLiquid staff are taking a look at who they have been featuring and making adjustments accordingly.
Protech is one case that I was very happy to see was no longer featured on this site. The racial slurs he has uttered whenever I saw his stream were unreal, not to mention the other hateful comments I have seen him utter. The way he treats people and the harrassment he gives to poeple on ladder were abysmal and then if he ever lost he would blame them for cheating and slander them in general. All in all I felt having a person performing such as this whilst being featured was a little sad to see.
I just thought I would share a few words on the matter. sorry if this was the wrong place to leave this feedback, but lots of other people already seem to be voicing their thought here already so i threw my hat in the ring. TL staff have done well in my eyes by making this decision. Thanks
Also. I have read many of the comments and i know he had a warning wen you would go to watch the stream about possible vulgarities and I understand that. The above text was merely a reflection of how I felt seeing behavior like that being featured on TeamLiquid. I know his stream and his conduct on it are his own business, I just thought little to see it being featured.
Your grossly exaggerated diatribe aside.... I suppose you are upset that destiny wasnt de-featured eh?
JYP has started streaming (http://www.own3d.tv/live/150857/TSLJYP_-_SCII_Protos), i'd guess he'd pretty much be instantly featured wouldn't he? should i PM anyone in particular about a new stream like this to featured it or would he still have to make a TL account for it?
I don't know if this is the right place, but I cannot believe you defeatured Attero I heard he will be re-featured again next month, which is better than nothing I guess. But why not let him stay featured instead?
edit: I guess I should make some kind of argument.
He is imo one of best protoss currently streaming who does a lot of commentating while playing. This is great for low-lewels like myself because I learn so much more, when people actually explains their decision making while playing.
He HAS results, - Championship Bracket of MLG 2011, - Qualified for IEM NY beating TSL_Killer - Got to the finals of WCG Canada (a 5000$ paid trip to Korea but lost to Kiwikaki) - Top GM player and aspiring to be #1 on the ladder + more accomplishments
You say he was averaging ~150 viewers which I find kinda hard to believe (I think he hovers around 300-400 once the stream gets going?), but maybe I'm wrong.
Really great job TL .But i dont understant something why too many threats about Protech ??? So many great players like VileSpanishWa say to his stream : If you support Maphack,Tabhack,StreamHack on my chat is a auto ban ,and some times is normal if you losse a game to BM a little if you play with the same players again and again because use Hacks and have the same MMR.The funny is the streamhackers when streamer says something to the mic after some secs in the game stream hackers they anwser So blizz cant find all that kids how hacking thats is the real problem.I see all Techs replays and YES they are cheating but to understant (for us the non hackers) the cheat you must know how its works.I see too many treats about Tech when he losse say <<They are cheating>> This is not excuse this is real happening and ppl start blame Tech at treats ,so be more carrefully plz when you dont know how some things work and a treat you must be sure about what you say guys for many reasons.All the Top players have the same problem because have a popullar name at the game and streaming. Thing all that guys . My respects TL keep the good work.
I noticed nothing because I was capped and then away but if it gets TL more moneys then yay! There's always more room for wide TL ads in my widescreen.
I have the weird bug when pictures are wider than the screen. First they overlap with the sidebar and second when i use the scrollbar and go to the right, it automatically resets the position back after half a second or so, even if im still holding leftclick on it. Im using opera which often has layout problems, however this is the only site that im experiencing this one on.
Elly just reminded me to turn off ad-block, and since Elly is so adorable, I obliged.
Problem is, now I can't see Elly anymore, but I want to. How can we fix this? Maybe a "Thanks for supporting eSports!" Elly image that only shows up when you have ads enabled? Regardless of the solution, this must be addressed.
I dont care about most of the changes, but the option of adding favorite streams is the best thing ever. That is exactly what I always wanted. Thanks TL!
I really like how it looks and dont mind the increased ad size at all, just please never include ads that have video or sound that is intrusive and sucks bandwidth. Cheers for the hardwork and I really love the stream optimization features!
This is what I'm getting wherever I go... Fyi : I'm using Opera.
I go to stream list > I'm getting this option. I go to news forums > same getting this annoying option, it happens everytime i go on tl.net be it news, stream, or forums...
On November 03 2011 14:19 Zyferous wrote: This is amazing. Sidebar options made my day -- such a pain in the ass to sift through all the SC2 to find the occasional BW.
TBH I would love it if the Upcoming Events section updated the time till event start in real-time. I can't count the number of times I have been killing time watching a random player stream, waiting for an even to start, and missing the first match because I don't notice it started on my sidebar. I know this is mainly my fault, but I'm just thinking this would be a great (and simple) addition to the sidebar.
The featured streams thing feels refreshing: I often found myself trying several "featured" streams before I found one that I thought was at all worth it. I think that will be different now, for the better.
New advertisements: hey, we all gotta make a buck. Best of wishes to you.
My only (minor) issue is the expanded site size...means I have to scroll to the right to view the side bar. I would rather have smaller text and see it all than have to move around, but thats just me and I'll adapt. Also, this may jsut be on work PC...havent been to my gaming rig in nearing two weeks now (it burns!!!) so its possibly a resolution thing I shouldn't even care about.
Just my observations. Love the site and the work you folks do.
This is a great example if how to have ads that both are seen (aka revenue) and putting them in a place whee they do not ruin the experience of the page. Two thumbs up.
On November 03 2011 14:07 bigwig123 wrote: thisisjimmy off featured?
Anyone who isn't a professional player seems to have been defeatured. I'm really glad because all these upper master league players were really starting to clog things up.
lolwhat? are you joking? and guys - return Scan's stream into featured lol, hes the best nonkorean scbw player and hes the only one guy whos with pro7ect streaming high level scbw.
i'm not sure if anyone posted it before but i've been having some issues ever since the site update for one thing, i can't disable my adblock on teamliquid anymore for another, for some reason the page always goes crazy and the layout completely messes up like this:
I came into this thread expecting to see a lot more whining than there is! While that is nice, unfortunately I must whine a little bit. I recommend you guys bring the page width back to normal. It's annoying to have to scroll to the right to see streams/events/calender then back to the left to see forum stuff. I understand some people might have tons of money and widescreen and stuff but most of us have standard aspect ratio monitors. No biggie and I'm happy to see customization options and the featured streamer situation stabilizing but I want my 2 cents to be heard!
Please bring the width back to normal!! :-) <3 :-)
On November 05 2011 12:36 Weebem-Na wrote: I came into this thread expecting to see a lot more whining than there is! While that is nice, unfortunately I must whine a little bit. I recommend you guys bring the page width back to normal. It's annoying to have to scroll to the right to see streams/events/calender then back to the left to see forum stuff. I understand some people might have tons of money and widescreen and stuff but most of us have standard aspect ratio monitors. No biggie and I'm happy to see customization options and the featured streamer situation stabilizing but I want my 2 cents to be heard!
Please bring the width back to normal!! :-) <3 :-)
Pasting this from website feedback:
On November 03 2011 14:31 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: As much as it sucks to say this; we did research by looking at other websites, thought about the future of monitors, and analyzed our own stats to see whether we should go ahead with this. Based on the fact that under 3% on TL uses a resolution of 1024x768, and likely less in the future, we decided to do this.
It really sucks for the users that got hurt by this but I also hope that there is some understanding. This was a really big thing for us and I hope you guys still keep supporting us.
I like it, More pages and more space to write stuff and images will look larger. Interesting how it will look like. Since now we have more space for phrases.
Although It isn't that large for me here (I have a 1080p TVLED & 1080i (1680 x 1050) TVLCD).
No problems here, I'm using Chrome.
But I'm curious how it looks for Pad's & Netbook/13"Notebooks are handling it.
Cheers & Hope the best for TL go for the healthy professionalized e-Sport. I'm missing Teamliquid Starcraft League!
Wow... How is mOOnGLaDe featured? He's a bad player + doesn't stream that often at all (started streaming more since the changes...). By bad, I mean at a professional level 'cause he would crush me anyday.
This is what TL needed, i don't have to scroll through tons BroodWar's sequel - related stuff to find things that interest me. Thank you, great work on the update.
I wanted to mention that the site update coincided with the TL iPhone app no longer working properly. Hopefully the people concerned know about it! Otherwise, I'm happy with the changes. Good work!
after a few days the fixed width is getting to me i, like alot of other people here, do the half-half with a widescreen monitor and the fixed width completely breaks it; the entire right part of the site is unviewable
hmm... I wouldn't mind the changes much, as the site is still very similar to the old version. BUT: due to my small monitor (and my poor eyesight) I have to zoom in to the site to read the text. While this used to be no problem, now the site doesn't fit on my monitor anymore and I have to scroll to see the right side (streams etc).
Just a minor complaint, as it is fixable on my side (i.e. getting a proper monitor, moving closer to my monitor or go get some glasses ^^)
this is pathetic, why was snute removed? he is probably atleast top 5 zerg in eu atm and much much better than many players that are still featured,looking at this list it seems TL is heavily biased toward US players
On November 07 2011 09:16 Knutzi wrote: this is pathetic, why was snute removed? he is probably atleast top 5 zerg in eu atm and much much better than many players that are still featured,looking at this list it seems TL is heavily biased toward US players
From my count, there are 8 more featured Europeans than Americans for sc2.
Hi there! Great changes and many thanks! However, is there an option to display all streams on the right sidebar? I mean, not just the featured ones, but all BW ones? Since I'm not interested in any other streams other than BW, it would be nice. I searched for this, but couldn't find a solution. I'm sorry if I am being redundant.
On November 08 2011 16:29 Phlatline wrote: I hate the new left sidebar look. Letters are too big and clumsy. Aesthetically it's much worse then before.
I thought that was a bug >.>
I feel the same way. The text appears small at first but when the page fully loads, all the letters seem to change a font size up and it's ugly t.t.
Just a quick question regarding customization, would it be possible to allow customization of how TLPD presents the data? Right now only 40 entries are being shown on one page, with 12 pages to scroll through, and it would be great if one could set this number to 50, 100 or whatever suits him.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/sitechanges6.jpg)
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