EPTMP3.
108kpbs. I have no idea why i did that.
Stop complaining people.
[SC2B] Micro Matters - Page 4
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Kouda
United States2205 Posts
MP3. 108kpbs. I have no idea why i did that. Stop complaining people. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
 Really looking forward to the Liquibition! | ||
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
but mainly HOLYSHITLIQUIBATIONYESYESYES im really glad this is starting up again | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
so sad yet so true | ||
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Golden Ghost
Netherlands1041 Posts
Tried different players, converted it to mp3, downloaded the mp3 version mentioned above but nothing worked. I have no problem whatsoever with other audio files so it's not my speakers/soundcard. Am I missing something obvious here? | ||
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MidKnight
Lithuania884 Posts
On March 07 2010 01:13 imbecile wrote: Commended for using oggs. But for those complaining about the "lack of micro". If you want to play a game where success depends on quickly pressing buttons in a specific order, play Guitar Hero. It's good, but don't play strategy games. If you want to play a game, where mastering the control scheme, including glitches, is the most important thing for winning, play quake 3 arena or quakelive. It's awesome, but don't play strategy games. If you want play a game where you have absolute control over every aspect and action of every unit, play a turn based game. There a really great ones out there. An RTS is about quickly making decisions under pressure. Not about overcoming deficient control schemes. Or showing units their front from their ass. Why is the play of so many top tier SC1 players described as robotic? It's because they have to robotically do all the things a computer should be doing anyway. Stuff like "Do I want my drone to sit idle by the hatchery or to mine?", "Do I want to surround my opponent with my melee units or to go in one by one?" are no decisions. Forcing you to constantly toil just to make those kind of basic things happen takes away depth from the game. You don't make chess pieces weigh 200lbs and then say it adds a lot of strategic depth to the game it being so hard to move anything at all. Sure, seeing some of the micro battles of pro players is impressive. About the same kind of impressive to see people pulling off a basketball match in a foot deep of snow. It was about time this playing field was cleared of all this. That's an interesting view on things. But that's the whole point, pro players are afraid that skill ceiling will be lowered so much that anyone will be able to compete at highest level. I agree that mechanical skill is boring and doesn't show how smart and strategic someone is, but it sort of makes sure that you have to dedicate yourself to the game and constanly train. Which is why SC:BW is such a competitive game. | ||
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Squallcloud
France466 Posts
We simply can't know right now. | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
On March 07 2010 04:16 MidKnight wrote: That's an interesting view on things. But that's the whole point, pro players are afraid that skill ceiling will be lowered so much that anyone will be able to compete at highest level. I agree that mechanical skill is boring and doesn't show how smart and strategic someone is, but it sort of makes sure that you have to dedicate yourself to the game and constanly train. Which is why SC:BW is such a competitive game. I'd say it's harder to find people that are good at planning ahead, fast in the moment decision making and keeping a cool head under pressure than it is to find people that are willing to play computer games a lot. So I'd say the air will be even thinner at the top. | ||
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Voyager
Canada111 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On March 07 2010 04:52 imbecile wrote: I'd say it's harder to find people that are good at planning ahead, fast in the moment decision making and keeping a cool head under pressure than it is to find people that are willing to play computer games a lot. So I'd say the air will be even thinner at the top. Well with SC1 you had the same fast in the moment decision making, AND the mechanical requirement. Thus, removing one of those doesn't suddenly make the fast decision making any harder. So if its true that there's "less mechanical requirement" (something that isn't necessarily true yet), there will be less skill separation at the top of the game -- this is what happens when you remove a requirement. Using your analogy, it's like removing dribbling from basketball, this doesn't somehow make it more strategical, just easier mechanically. Not to mention out-strategizing / out-thinking someone is a skill that is very difficult to consistently repeat given the current replay analysis and proteam mindset. Once something innovative comes out, other players will make an almost-near copy of it. Decisions are very, very easy to copy. You can just practice this, the more decisions a player makes (especially great decisions), the more someone can copy them. It's only a matter of time before the best player simply runs out of the chances to out-strategize / out-think because at some point, his clones will do it as good or better. Just about every possible situation will be accounted for and things will "go standard" like they largely have to an extent now in BW. If you look at the BW, the reason the top players come out with so many of the best strategies is largely because they can execute them better, not because they can think faster. This is because a high degree mechanical skill (think Jaedong, Flash, Bisu) cannot be copied as easily as a strategy. It's not 2-hatch muta or TvZ FE or DT-Sair that wins these players the games, but their execution of it. What you're saying is if all of these strategies were suddenly easier to execute (every mid level T pro can macro like Flash now) that somehow it will make the game more strategical and the better thinkers will rise to the front? I doubt it. It will just make it much more crowded at the top with nobody dominating -- something that will greatly hurt the marketability of the SC2 proscene. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
because it is just blatantly misrepresented. | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
The heavy burden on the SC1 player to constantly do menial tasks takes away a lot of the capacity ta actually implement the cool strategies you come up with. Yes, a strategy can be copied quite easily. But what is the saying? No plan survives contact with the enemy. If you lack on the spot decision making and situational awareness, copying strategies won't do you much good. I'm just of the opinion that in a strategy game, the dominant factor in winning should be strategy, not button pressing. Sure, in a real time setting, fast and precise mechanics help a lot,and you will still have a big advantage over your opponent in SC2 with it. But I think it was far too dominant in SC1. Most of the spells weren't used, because it was mechanically too demanding. It's not like Jaedong was the only one to think of maybe using queens. The unit was there from day one. It's rather that the bad interface prevented everyone not at Jeadong level and practicing 14 hours a day from using it. And it also doesn't take a genius to think of multi front attacks. But the bad interface prevents most people from even trying them. | ||
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epsilonhalbe
Austria26 Posts
<3 <3 <3 <3 and teamliquid of course too | ||
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bentnormal
112 Posts
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fredd
Estonia256 Posts
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jetpower
Poland85 Posts
On March 07 2010 06:18 epsilonhalbe wrote: getting more in love with tl.net - you're using ogg - long live open source <3 <3 <3 <3 and teamliquid of course too MP3 has open source implementations too. I think what you meant is patent-free (mp3 is heavily patented) (sorry if i sound a bit like a jerk) | ||
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R1CH
Netherlands10342 Posts
On March 07 2010 00:47 jetpower wrote: Ok ,so the bandwith is that bad? However i want to point out that vorbis might not better for voice than lame abr mp3, especially because the version you're using (1.20) doesn't contain last improvements Minor versions don't change the encoder, I tested just to be sure and 1.2.3 produced an identical bitstream to 1.2.0. MP3 is really bad at low bitrates since the VBR can only operate in steps, even using 32kbps as a target bitrate results in a stream of primarily 80kbps frames. | ||
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foeffa
Belgium2115 Posts
iPod friendly. | ||
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Armathai
1023 Posts
I agree with both imbecile and Hot_bid, but on different issues! I really think the lack of dominant players at the top to represent stardom chances would hurt sc2, but I think it will be a long while before that becomes an issue. I agree with imbecile however that an easier mechanical interface will allow more people to reach for the top with strategy. I think this would benefit the community because more foreigners would consider it a career path and it would become more popular. Just think of it like Soccer, less learning curve but still hard to master. | ||
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NET
United States703 Posts
Sure, seeing some of the micro battles of pro players is impressive. About the same kind of impressive to see people pulling off a basketball match in a foot deep of snow. It was about time this playing field was cleared of all this. Completely agree. But some RTS's, AOE 2 for example, has a button to spread the army in various positions, if a button like that were to be added into SC2 it would then make the game logarithmically easier (M&M or Morons vs Colossi for example), but the same argument can be made that the micro is lost. You make a good point saying take out all the "robotic functions" while at the same time not making the game immensely easier. SC2 itself is easier on a "Mechanized" level, but is still decieded on the human factor and to me thats what makes this such a great game. | ||
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