[GG] Red Army Mafia - Page 2

On July 30 2009 05:07 coltrane wrote:
Ace, really you dont make any single good point at this.


If there are 9 rebels and 6 agents one of them being RC tonight and death tomorrow is MUCH posible.

We act on behavioral things mostly, mafia doesnt, they will start sweeping first and will kill anyone who they find that is not on their team. If they are not confident of one of their own then they have to use another night checking. To RC is not a good way of checking, cause NKVD will still appear Ukranian, even after his dts are gone. The best way could be setting up a killing, and that may require 2 nights instead of one. So by claming to be ukranians they win at least 1 night, sometimes 2 and could be more.

Under this conditions i would suggest ANYONE who could appear to be ukranian to do so, and i would say NKVD shouldnt be on the office.

Given the rule set we have the chance to screw their ability to propper rolecheck, wtf lets do it.




And yes, wont be easy, but our DT would have for sure at least 1 confirmed townie where to deliver his info. The thing is he doesnt need to get into. If they think he could me ukranian he will still have an extra night and even when he is rolechecked and dont get info about it is even more the info that ukranians lose.

On July 30 2009 05:37 L wrote:
\

As for Ace's last post: you've essentially summed up why our DTs are going to want to play rebel (ALL OF THEM). If we can make it very hard for mafia to team up, we force mafia self-killing. Any NKVD agent that gets into a ring gains a huge amount of information, and our risk/reward goes from 1 NKVD:1Ukranian to 1NKVD:1Ring. The slower mafia play, and the more information they gather, the more we would want our DTs rolling rebel. The only possible shit-scenario would be NKVD finding each other, but that's where people need to bust out their behavioral analysis hats and get to work.

On July 30 2009 05:39 Scamp wrote:
Well that situation of the two NKVD agents targeting each other would be unfortunate but unlikely.

Besides, the point isn't to take out one Ukranian. The point is to infiltrate a group in order to take out a bunch of them. I don't think I'd want to start hitting people if I were in a Ukranian group of two or three, so getting "confirmed" by killing someone wouldn't be a problem until later.

On July 30 2009 05:56 L wrote:
There won't be networks if all the NKVD are posing as rebels. That's the entire point. By the time ukranians can successfully check themselves, we'll be on day 3 and their time limit will be blowing by. Similarly, Ace's theory that a Ukranian can ask for prior kill and future kill is substantially harmed by the fact that the prior kill doesn't exist due to the fact that the "Rebel" used a check the night before, and that a medic can catch the following hit. If any of that 'luck' happens, we have 2 ukranians who essentially kill themselves for us.

On July 30 2009 06:01 Falcynn wrote:
Yeah, since I'm not sure if I was clear enough, I'm going to try to detail this better.

NKVD should disguise themselves as Ukrainians
This is good because it'll force the Ukrainians to be more careful about who they trust, stalling any form of organization between them for at least a few days. The only drawback to this is if an NKVD targets another NKVD, which is fairly unlikely, but if it does happen it shouldn't be too disastrous because...

NKVD should not try to infiltrate the network
This is a waste of time, because the Ukrainians have enough methods at their disposal to verify Ukrainians within a day. If an NKVD agent comes out to a Ukrainian, then they have roughly 1 day left to live. If they're that suicidal, they may as well just open up to the town and pray for medic protection. They should simply disguise as Ukrainian, then continue playing as if this was any other mafia game by subtly trying to sway the towns opinion with what they find out rather than trying to come out in the open.

On July 30 2009 06:11 L wrote:
EXACTLY.

SO NOW REAL REBELS CANT ORGANIZE UNTIL DAY 3-4, POSSIBLY LATER IF THEY CHECK NON-REBEL TARGETS.

At which point we can switch NKVD agents to all vigilantes if we want and proceed from there. Rules aren't clear on when/how/how many rolecheck masks our agents can use, but if they can change them post start, we're 100% fine.

Even then, trading a single Dt for a single mafia at days 3-4 is fantastic trade given they have 1 kp/day (depending on how many there are).

On July 30 2009 06:12 L wrote:
Basically you've admitted mafia have no information, but you want ukranians to be able to check NKVD agents and see a blue/green and KNOW there's a safe kill target, and KNOW rebels are actually rebels.

C'mon Ace, keep the story straight. Those are your tips. Follow them :3.

On July 30 2009 06:15 Scamp wrote:
Ace your scenerio is if an NKVD agent finds a Ukranian. But we're talking about the NKVD posing as a Ukranian. Also, what about counter-proof? I like how I have all the power in that argument and I don't have to prove myself at all.


But wait, are we all agreed now that every NKVD should list themselves as Ukranian? I think it sounds that way.

On July 30 2009 06:20 Scamp wrote:


Um...I thought the proof is that any NKVD agent listing himself as anything else isn't really helpful.

If rebels RC someone who isn't blue, the immediate response is to kill them because they aren't blue. Mafia have a time limit, their weakness is self-killing. the moment they know someone isn't them, he's on the chopping block. Why would i take the effort to RC someone, find out they're not mafia, then NOT kill them? Why would I waste KP like that?

Pretty much any townie can be confirmed by a dying NKVD since there is no cover in this game. 1 trade is -1Kp/day if not more.

See, that's the thing, you're assuming that ukranians are going to rolecheck correctly on the first night (because otherwise my day 3-4 timeframe is 100% correct), miss medics/veterans and not kill each other off during that 3 blind night period and hope that NKVD have not identified medics, because if they do they can have themselves protected and give us assured targets. After which, mafia are still behind in information because their rings will be smaller and delayed in being set up. At that point, we can switch our NKVD agents to whatever we want. If we want them to switch green, sure. The chances that someone is RCed twice is hilariously low until the game wears on, and if that's the case, we don't trade 1:1. We trade 3:1 or higher given that ukranian RCs are KILLS DENIED.

On July 30 2009 07:02 L wrote:
Basically, if NKVD do not contact their targets as a rule, rebels finding rebels cannot safely talk to each other upon fear of being confirmed blue, while our NKVD are free to check for town aligned players. This also prevents ukranians from mass pming people with "lol i checked you".

On July 30 2009 07:07 coltrane wrote:


sorry, but what a pompuos fuck., You should be discussing plans WITH THE TOWN, you are no one, i dont care if you are vet and i am newb, YOU ARE WRONG, YOU ARE DIVIDING THE TOWN, YOUR BEHAVIOR ISNT TO BE TRUSTED.


Gonna tell this once again

I havent played ever with any of you, and i dont trust anyone and i dont have any prejudgment. I dont care if you are a vet or a newb, and thats exactly why all of you should be voting for me.

TBH that seems like a BS excuse because even if for whatever reason we entertain the possibility that Ace is NKVD and I'm a rebel, why the hell would I blow my identity like that? As a rebel I'd want to stay hidden as long as possible and only attempt to come out when my cover is blown.

Ace: Hey, saw you're a rebel, just to make sure, who did you kill last night/who are you going to kill tomorrow?
Falcynn: I used a role check last night and found out that (person that I really did role check since I'm NKVD) is green. Tomorrow I'm gonna kill L.

*tomorrow comes and goes*

Ace: dude, you said you were gonna kill L.
Falcynn: fuck man, fucking medic blocked me. You know what, I think I'll role check this next turn blah blah blah.